Neutral flag in Cyrodiil for PvE players

Artim_X · March 2022

The servers can't handle extra players who aren't even participating in the content they queued for.

Ragnarok0130 · March 2022

drsalvation wrote: »

I always wanted the concept of forming alliances with another alliance to take down another alliance's base.
And as an imperial main and fanboy, I hated that there was not an imperial faction to DEFEND cyrodiil.

.

Fellow Imperial fan boy here and I had this same thought. In IC we even see Imperials fighting the daedra so it would have been great to have an Imperial Faction to fight daedra and take back the city/province and maybe defend it from the three alliances.

Kiralyn2000 · March 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It is not a flaw. There is nothing to suggest that the programming of the game went haywire and created all those quests and more in Cyrodiil. It all points to a conscious and intended design the developers made just as they made a conscious decision to not have PvP in the PvE zones.

So it cannot legitimately be called a flaw.

Eh, deliberate design decisions can still result from flawed thinking or goals. "Flaw" doesn't mean "bug" or "unintentional".

Just saying. /shrug

You're right, though I feel compelled to note that "this car is blue" is a fundamental flaw of the car for someone who hates the color blue.

That's kind of how I see a lot of the criticisms of the "flaws" of mixed PvPvE zones that basically amount to "players can kill me." I mean, of course someone who doesn't like PVP or the interactions between enemy players during quests is going to think that it's flawed. It's fundamentally antithetical to their tastes.

Oh, I wasn't referring to this specific claim of "flaw", just the general thought that flaws were unintentional bugs.

But, personally, I think that the entire concept of "PvPvE" is a flawed idea. Mixing the two is just a massive mistake, and has been in every game I've played with something like that. It just leads to so much ill will, for various reasons. PvP games and PvE games should be kept separate. IMO, of course.

baltic1284 · March 2022

I am actually behind this PVE doesn't need be isolated and treated so badly we already get enough of that from the PVP community crying we are ruining their PVP zone and such, yet they can duel which is PVP in a PVE zone all day. I can see getting Missions rewards of those missions to include Skyshards and such and anything else like PVE in the game already, this would also prevent PVP players from bulling PVE players and then ask why they are called toxic when they are chasing PVE players around for an easy kill.
If i am PVPing and such which si very rare do to how the PVP community in general is now days and a player runs away I don't chase theme i just let them go and move along that simple, if i know there is an even going on like there was I don't pvp at all i just sit there and leave the community as a whole alone it isn't that hard to hard self-control guys and ues i do agree those that don't want to PVP should be protected but any actions they take in a PVP sense like take towns and such they can't do.

Sailor_Palutena · March 2022

It is incredible how PVP players are afraid of losing PVE targets in the area. Whenever I recommend ESO to a new player, I always need to tell them to avoid Cyrodill because of the PVP, and they end up not buying the DLC (Imperial City) because of that.

Keep one thing in mind: If a PVE player doesn't want PVP, forbidding the PVE flag option won't make him/her say:
- oh ok, I'll play PVP then.

They will just do like a thousand people and ignore the zone completely.
I went there a few times due to my OCD of completion, but it never made me like the zone or PVP in general. I avoid fighting as much as possible. - Oh you killed me? Cgz for massaging your ego and making me waste time. Next timne I'll go on an emptier Cyrodiil.

NordSwordnBoard · March 2022

I love how taters think we want to kill them so bad. We don't, Precious. We want a challenge. We want to slay the Dark Lords, not Hobbitses farming boxes. I would actually rather white-knight and kill some quest gankers who turn out to be (Surprise!) very low AvA rank and never spotted in the campaign before. Just to prove we PvP folk can be friendly and helpful.

Some PvE players who are beginning to dabble in PvP tend to seek out easy kills - who are sometimes the people they actually used to be. "Circle of Life" and all that lol. It's hard to accept that the person who killed you isn't some OP sweaty PvP lord, but a player who needs to kill you because they aren't very good at PvP and you give them confidence in themselves.

SilverBride · March 2022

Sailor_Palutena wrote: »

If a PVE player doesn't want PVP, forbidding the PVE flag option won't make him/her say:
- oh ok, I'll play PVP then.

They will just do like a thousand people and ignore the zone completely.

That is perfectly reasonable. If a player doesn't enjoy a certain aspect of the game they can just ignore it. I don't like trials or veteran content so I ignore it and spend my time engaging in the things I do enjoy. The same goes for Cyrodiil. I don't PvP so I don't go there very often. But I know if I do there is a risk and I accept that.

Dem_kitkats1 · March 2022

There is already so much PvE content to get through with the rest of the game in regards to lore, quests, fishing, skyshards, etc, that having to cater, once again, to PvE players is a bit ridiculous. People don't seem to realize that Cyrodiil is the only end game content that PvPers get. So if PvErs are that determined to complete the zone they should treat it as end game content. You wouldn't go into a trial unprepared so think of it the same way. Do some research, make adjustments, and prepare your build for the zone as you would for PvE end game content. It's one zone...and not everything needs to be easy for players to achieve.

AlnilamE · March 2022

Sailor_Palutena wrote: »

It is incredible how PVP players are afraid of losing PVE targets in the area. Whenever I recommend ESO to a new player, I always need to tell them to avoid Cyrodill because of the PVP, and they end up not buying the DLC (Imperial City) because of that.

Keep one thing in mind: If a PVE player doesn't want PVP, forbidding the PVE flag option won't make him/her say:
- oh ok, I'll play PVP then.

They will just do like a thousand people and ignore the zone completely.
I went there a few times due to my OCD of completion, but it never made me like the zone or PVP in general. I avoid fighting as much as possible. - Oh you killed me? Cgz for massaging your ego and making me waste time. Next timne I'll go on an emptier Cyrodiil.

That is your story, and that's fine.

There are plenty of threads in the forums of players who "hated" PvP and went to Cyrodiil for the achiements and decided to either stay to PvP or realized PvP isn't as terrible as they thought and started going there at regular intervals.

Amottica · March 2022

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It is not a flaw. There is nothing to suggest that the programming of the game went haywire and created all those quests and more in Cyrodiil. It all points to a conscious and intended design the developers made just as they made a conscious decision to not have PvP in the PvE zones.

So it cannot legitimately be called a flaw.

Eh, deliberate design decisions can still result from flawed thinking or goals. "Flaw" doesn't mean "bug" or "unintentional".

Just saying. /shrug

So I guess we can say it is a flaw Zenimax chose to not have PvP in the PvE zones. That works both ways.

In this case, well in both cases, it is clearly a very sound decision that Zenimax made and it does not harm anyone.

spartaxoxo · March 2022

Amottica wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It is not a flaw. There is nothing to suggest that the programming of the game went haywire and created all those quests and more in Cyrodiil. It all points to a conscious and intended design the developers made just as they made a conscious decision to not have PvP in the PvE zones.

So it cannot legitimately be called a flaw.

Eh, deliberate design decisions can still result from flawed thinking or goals. "Flaw" doesn't mean "bug" or "unintentional".

Just saying. /shrug

So I guess we can say it is a flaw Zenimax chose to not have PvP in the PvE zones. That works both ways.

In this case, well in both cases, it is clearly a very sound decision that Zenimax made and it does not harm anyone.

How would basic gameplay in any system harm anyone? That absolutely not be the metric a system is judged by. It should he judged by how many players use the system. If it has a sustainable enough population to justify it's own premise.

Cyrodiil does so that makes it work.

kargen27 · March 2022

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Why not just have a PVE map version. Literally a Cyro map that equates to a zone map? That would likely be ridiculously easy to do as it would be the same as going to another zone. And nobody is bothered by it. Frankly, it would be a nice way to complete out the tamriel map because it would actually include the zone as part of the zone maps rather than separate it into a separate queue.

Because it wouldn't be good for the game. THose PvE quests and achievements in Cyrodiil often introduce new players to PvP and some decide to stick around.

Vulkunne · March 2022

No and we've covered why before. People come to PvP zones for that reason. We don't need non-PvP players in a PvP zone tieing up the servers and faction population, not to mention tieing up the queue to get into the event as well.

Vulkunne · March 2022

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Why not just have a PVE map version. Literally a Cyro map that equates to a zone map? That would likely be ridiculously easy to do as it would be the same as going to another zone. And nobody is bothered by it. Frankly, it would be a nice way to complete out the tamriel map because it would actually include the zone as part of the zone maps rather than separate it into a separate queue.

So PvE is already there, it exists in zone... no need to duplicate work. Think of it this way, PvE in Cyrodiil is like spaghetti ok. The PvP Risk factor is sauce, really really good sauce. Sometimes can be a little strong though.

And I must admit its so much more fun and interesting running around trying to knock out objectives with the risk I might have to fight once in a while. Otherwise it gets kind of boring doesn't it? I'd rather chance death once in a while than ride around on a horse from point A to point B over and over again getting everything I -want- with no risk or need for me to think about consequences.

Otherwise its just the horse and character chasing waypoints, doing everything for me and I'm not required because there's no thinking involved. lol the game could literally run itself.

Bucky_13 · March 2022

Aardappelboom wrote: »

I love Cyrodiil, but not because it's Cyrodiil. Because of the PVP mode, I kinda get that PVE players want to go to Cyrodiil for the lore but it shouldn't be at the cost of PVP fun.

Maybe it's time for Cyrodiil to retire and move PVP to a PVP only zone while redesigning Cyro as a lore heavy PVE zone.

But we should really stop trying to make it work for both game modes.

Or we remove all PvE aspects from Cyrodiil so PvE players have zero reasons to go there and complain about PvP happening in the only true PvP zone in the game....

Mayrael · March 2022

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Why not just have a PVE map version. Literally a Cyro map that equates to a zone map? That would likely be ridiculously easy to do as it would be the same as going to another zone. And nobody is bothered by it. Frankly, it would be a nice way to complete out the tamriel map because it would actually include the zone as part of the zone maps rather than separate it into a separate queue.

Because it would be offensive for all those players who through the years have taken the challenge to finish it as a PvP zone.

Because it encourages us to at least try it out.

Because people who don't like PvE are forced to do it anyway, why the people who don't like PvP should be treated better? And no it's not "because someone actively doesn't stop you from finishing PvE objectives", in group content as I mentioned not knowing mechanics and using bad builds leads to blocking progress of other people to.

orgin_stadia · March 2022

I did all zone quests, delves, dolmens, shards (Except those in the opposing factions, which took some more beating) etc and got PvP'd .. twice.

Yes .. twice. Two times. > 2 <

Reading these complaints I just keep thinking that people who do PVE stuff in cyro must be doing something very very wrong.

fizl101 · March 2022

orgin_stadia wrote: »

I did all zone quests, delves, dolmens, shards (Except those in the opposing factions, which took some more beating) etc and got PvP'd .. twice.

Yes .. twice. Two times. > 2 <

Reading these complaints I just keep thinking that people who do PVE stuff in cyro must be doing something very very wrong.

I've challenged myself to do it all in Grey Host. I must be a sucker for punishment, but i think i only have to get the DC skyshards, 1 dolmen that never seems to be up and about 5 books. I do resource captures on the way, ideal for a PVE dd, grabbing the farm etc. If I die, oh well

hafgood · March 2022

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Or we remove all PvE aspects from Cyrodiil so PvE players have zero reasons to go there and complain about PvP happening in the only true PvP zone in the game....

As I explained earlier I'd be fine with this, is don't think PvErs would though as there is nothing PvE in Cyrodiil, everything is PvP related.

Town quests - give AP
Dolmens - give seige weapons
Skyshards - give skill points needed for PvP and are clearly an objective of the game as 6 are behind gates
Delves - killing boss gives AP buff
Resource nodes - can drop Colovian War Torte recipe.

So, all this "PvE" stuff is in fact PvP related. You want it? Take the risk, hear up, you've the armory now so really have no excuse, and come and join the community.

Before everyone jumps on me, there are some who try and don't like PvP but there are many haters who have never tried PvP in Cyrodiil. To them (and I was one of them) I say it can be fun, can be crazy, can be frustrating, you will die (a lot) but please give it a go. Stop having something you have never tried.

rbfrgsp · March 2022

"POLL: Reduce the damage output and health points of trial bosses and mobs for players who wish to solo trials".

Sounds dumb, doesn't it. You'd probably say that trials are what they are; if you don't like them as they are, you don't have to play that game mode. There is plenty of other content for you in the game. Yeah, that.

Northwold · March 2022

rbfrgsp wrote: »

"POLL: Reduce the damage output and health points of trial bosses and mobs for players who wish to solo trials".

Sounds dumb, doesn't it. You'd probably say that trials are what they are; if you don't like them as they are, you don't have to play that game mode. There is plenty of other content for you in the game. Yeah, that.

Well no, it doesn't sound dumb. It sounds dumb to you and opinions vary. That's how this works and why people discuss things.

The weird thing about ESO is that it has a very strong PvE playerbase even though it's an MMO.

Stanx · March 2022

Northwold wrote: »

rbfrgsp wrote: »

"POLL: Reduce the damage output and health points of trial bosses and mobs for players who wish to solo trials".

Sounds dumb, doesn't it. You'd probably say that trials are what they are; if you don't like them as they are, you don't have to play that game mode. There is plenty of other content for you in the game. Yeah, that.

Well no, it doesn't sound dumb. It sounds dumb to you and opinions vary. That's how this works and why people discuss things.

The weird thing about ESO is that it has a very strong PvE playerbase even though it's an MMO.

I can't think of a AAA MMO that doesn't have a strong PVE player base.

People need to be okay with things existing in a game that doesn't suit their playstyle.

Taggund · March 2022

There are achievements/aspects of this game I accept I will never complete as I do not have an interest in them - Vet dungeons/arenas, any trial, and playing as werewolf/vampire. I would add normal dungeons to that group as well, but I think i will eventually use an alt to start running some, but even then, vet content I do not have an interest in at all (which even keeps me from buying the final house I can with gold due to it requiring 2 vet dungeons being completed for an achievement).

I accept that if I want achievements in Cyro and IC I need to do the content as it is, and they are PVP zones. This past week I started playing Cyro for the first time other than some past event quest, and enjoyed it. When not doing the normal keep/camp attack/defense I also started on doing skyshards, delves, side quests, and points of interest. In all the delves I did, I never saw another player. I rarely saw anyone when out just going after the skyshards, even near the enemy gate. My previous play in Cyro during events had been on my thief alt, but this time was all on my main. I accepted there was risk in this, and if I was killed it was not really a big deal. Just try again.

As much as I enjoyed Cyro (as someone who played RvR/WvW games in the past), I still don't like IC, so it is something I don't see doing yet. Maybe after I complete Cyro, but can definitely wait, and I accept it may never be completed.

Jack-0 · March 2022

I suspect that Cyrodiil and pvp have existed in ESO for longer than a lot of the people whinging about it and trying to change it have even played the game.

I like that the zone has pve things to do within it, that is not at all a flaw in my eyes.

If you don’t like it how it is, don’t play it, stop trying to ruin it for everyone else!

Feaky · March 2022

It is a PVP zone. Please get out of here with this nonsense and go play in the 99% of the game that is not PVP. I'd rather ZOS spend time fixing real problems in PVP zones that have been long overdue.

And I am sure clever players would find ways to exploit this anyways.

Amottica · March 2022

Vulkunne wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Why not just have a PVE map version. Literally a Cyro map that equates to a zone map? That would likely be ridiculously easy to do as it would be the same as going to another zone. And nobody is bothered by it. Frankly, it would be a nice way to complete out the tamriel map because it would actually include the zone as part of the zone maps rather than separate it into a separate queue.

So PvE is already there, it exists in zone... no need to duplicate work. Think of it this way, PvE in Cyrodiil is like spaghetti ok. The PvP Risk factor is sauce, really really good sauce. Sometimes can be a little strong though.

And I must admit its so much more fun and interesting running around trying to knock out objectives with the risk I might have to fight once in a while. Otherwise it gets kind of boring doesn't it? I'd rather chance death once in a while than ride around on a horse from point A to point B over and over again getting everything I -want- with no risk or need for me to think about consequences.

Otherwise its just the horse and character chasing waypoints, doing everything for me and I'm not required because there's no thinking involved. lol the game could literally run itself.

I like this.

The reality is, Zenimax made a conscious decision early in the planning of this game that there would be no PvP in the main PvE zones and that they would create Cyrodiil for the purpose of PvP.

This is a decision that is at the core of their planning and vision of the game. As such it stands to reason that they intend for players to play in a PvP zone if they want the rewards and experience of what is in that zone. This is on purpose and the top developers that were in on this decision are still the top people who run this game.

Kwik1 · March 2022

AlnilamE wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

and only about 10% are adamantly opposed to it, that leaves 60-70% that are neutral to it

I don't care about pvp one way or ther other, but saying only 10% are adamantly opposed seems way off. I see tons of msg's daily in game from different people saying they will never do Cyro/IC/BG once they get the skills they want.

Lets plz not act like only 10% are opposed lol

We could solve a lot of issues if they just made cyro/IC have an optional PvE only version that gives no AP's or Telvar stones but allows PvE players to get achievements and skyshards and do the quests.

francesinhalover · March 2022

Northwold wrote: »

Coming out of another discussion, what do people think of allowing players who do Cyrodiil only for the quests or crafting to come in with a neutral flag?

They would not be allowed to engage in PvP and other players would not be able to attack them.

Quests not to award PvP rewards like alliance points.

Comms for neutral players with other players in zone to be banned to stop it being exploited for spying.

Like it works on imperial city because theres a main story there.

But cyro is just sidequests, no main story.