Please remove Dungeon DLC from ESO+

etchedpixels

hafgood wrote: »

It feels like a bunch of children at times - I'm just waiting for someone to say that's my ball and I'm going home so you lot can't play anymore

So Zenimax should do the experiment where your queue can also get you a battleground, or an hour fishing or stuck in a house adjusting furniture.

Then I suspect most of the people telling people to just put up with it change their tune.

Anifaas

joerginger wrote: »

After all this time I wonder why this is still an issue and why there still isn't a checkbox.

It would certainly improve the new user experience because, as it is right now, getting dumped into a DLC dungeon when you're new often involves opening oneself up to the vitriol of the impatient and entitled. It is a weird business model for new people where spending more money results in a worse experience than just buying the base game.

I get it. I used to raid and do dungeons in WoW for 15 years. When you've done the same dungeon a million times it can make you impatient. But the system over there is better where the more difficult dungeons aren't part of the general queue and instead require manual queuing resulting in a much more consistent experience than here.

The solutions over here are not great. 1) Only run with guildies which is fairly inflexible. Or, 2) drop subscription and don't buy DLCs which deprives the game of money. A checkbox would solve this problem simply and elegantly. Except it might slow down the people who don't care about anyone but themselves and just want to rush through.

AlnilamE

etchedpixels wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

It feels like a bunch of children at times - I'm just waiting for someone to say that's my ball and I'm going home so you lot can't play anymore

So Zenimax should do the experiment where your queue can also get you a battleground, or an hour fishing or stuck in a house adjusting furniture.

Then I suspect most of the people telling people to just put up with it change their tune.

One hour is a bit harsh, but it it takes the average time that a random normal takes (currently 15 minutes and 27 seconds, with a high outlier of 50 minutes), then why not? I could use some more perfect roe. Now, the battleground would be over quickly because I would die a lot without a PvP build, so I'd feel sorry for my team.

joerginger wrote: »

After all this time I wonder why this is still an issue and why there still isn't a checkbox "include DLC dungeons" for the random queue. Of course subscribers are punished for subscribing, saying anything else is just arguing pointless semantics. The investment of time is harsh, not to mention the difficulty and all those "amusing" mechanics.

I used to do random dungeons when I was leveling the Undaunted skill line on my main character and ending up in a DLC dungeon virtually every time was incredibly annoying. One day I ended up in Lair of Maarselok which took us almost an hour. One dungeon. That was in summer / autumn of 2019 and I never ever queued for a random dundeon again.

In fact, this made me stop doing dungeons almost completely until I started doing some easy ones solo.

Because the people who queue for DLC dungeons because they want something from them (pledge, skill point, gear) deserve to have their groups filled at the same rate as the people who want to run Fungal Grotto I for whatever reason.

And honestly, the newer DLC dungeons are a lot shorter than Liar of Maarselok (which is a fun dungeon), and they are a lot shorter than some of the non-DLC dungeons.

Like, give me any DLC before you give me CoA II!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Vrienda wrote: »

What the title says. Ideally remove it from the game and stop developing them. But at the very least don’t have me queue for a normal dungeon and get cradle of shadows where the healer immediately quits and leaves me [snip]

I love the craft bag but having dlc dungeons in my random queue when I want to just get my endeavour done and get some exp for my necro is a punishment I’m not sure is worth it. 90% of these dungeons you keep adding drop trash sets nobody uses and stories the go-go-go multiplayer part of the game has no interest in letting me experience. They’re pointless wastes of dev time that would be better served producing a second small zone dlc.

*Deep Breath* Just please let me untick DLC in ESO+ I don’t want access to.

[Snip for Insulting/Baiting]

The request of being able to untick DLC dungeons is not unreasonable. Asking ZOS to stop developing DLC dungeons is looney tunes level nonsense.

Arunei

etchedpixels wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

It feels like a bunch of children at times - I'm just waiting for someone to say that's my ball and I'm going home so you lot can't play anymore

So Zenimax should do the experiment where your queue can also get you a battleground, or an hour fishing or stuck in a house adjusting furniture.

Then I suspect most of the people telling people to just put up with it change their tune.

That makes absolutely no sense and in no way works as a comparison. All of those are completely different activities from one another. DLC dungeons are still dungeons.

agelonestar

Vrienda wrote: »

What the title says. Ideally remove it from the game and stop developing them. But at the very least don’t have me queue for a normal dungeon and get cradle of shadows where the healer immediately quits and leaves me [snip]

I love the craft bag but having dlc dungeons in my random queue when I want to just get my endeavour done and get some exp for my necro is a punishment I’m not sure is worth it. 90% of these dungeons you keep adding drop trash sets nobody uses and stories the go-go-go multiplayer part of the game has no interest in letting me experience. They’re pointless wastes of dev time that would be better served producing a second small zone dlc.

*Deep Breath* Just please let me untick DLC in ESO+ I don’t want access to.

[Snip for Insulting/Baiting]

I agree.

I have never liked the double drop of DLC dungeons - I hardly ever do a dungeon, and I have zero interest in doing them twice (let alone the dozens of times it takes to grind out a full set of what is almost always mediocre gear).

I would far - FAR! - rather at least one of the DLC dungeon drops was replaced with a base game upgrade - add stuff, fix stuff, make stuff bigger and more interesting…… just stop adding dungeon after dungeon after dungeon.

(I do appreciate that some people love these things, but let’s all be honest: the amount of effort that goes into the creation of and then the bug fixing of new dlc dungeons is about 1,000,000,000 more than goes into (for example) sorting out Cyrodiil. So I’d like a bit of balance, please).

Mythgard1967

jle30303 wrote: »

Alternative option: Make the RANDOM queue able to drop non-subscribers into ANY dungeon - even if it's one they don't have access to, to actually queue for it deliberately.

That way, subscribers and non-subscribers are on an equal footing with regards to getting the RND rewards, while subscribers have the same privileges as actual crown purchasers of the DLC - the right to make the active deliberate choice for that dungeon, to farm gear and outfits from it.

THIS! I have been thinking this through reading the entire thread.

The reward exists to fill out the groups for specific queued dungeons....not for doing a random dungeon. ESO+ members are disgruntled that non-eso+ get easier dungeons and want a level playing field.

So level the playing field and everyone gets DLC dungeons...but non-eso+ can't specifically queue for those dungeons. I guess the problem with that approach is the "sticker book". You are now allowing people who did not purchase the content to fill their sticker book with DLC sets. Or, you can just make those sets not drop for people who have not purchased the content or are not plus.

Then you get a whole new thread talking about how it is unfair to non-eso+.

Mythgard1967

Anifaas wrote: »

joerginger wrote: »

After all this time I wonder why this is still an issue and why there still isn't a checkbox.

It would certainly improve the new user experience because, as it is right now, getting dumped into a DLC dungeon when you're new often involves opening oneself up to the vitriol of the impatient and entitled. It is a weird business model for new people where spending more money results in a worse experience than just buying the base game.

I get it. I used to raid and do dungeons in WoW for 15 years. When you've done the same dungeon a million times it can make you impatient. But the system over there is better where the more difficult dungeons aren't part of the general queue and instead require manual queuing resulting in a much more consistent experience than here.

The solutions over here are not great. 1) Only run with guildies which is fairly inflexible. Or, 2) drop subscription and don't buy DLCs which deprives the game of money. A checkbox would solve this problem simply and elegantly. Except it might slow down the people who don't care about anyone but themselves and just want to rush through.

Right up to the point when that new user needs a set to optimize their build from a DLC dungeon and there is no one checking the box to include DLC content in order to fill out his party...and then you get the "Does anyone even check the box to do DLC dungeons anymore?" threads.

Agenericname

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Alternative option: Make the RANDOM queue able to drop non-subscribers into ANY dungeon - even if it's one they don't have access to, to actually queue for it deliberately.

That way, subscribers and non-subscribers are on an equal footing with regards to getting the RND rewards, while subscribers have the same privileges as actual crown purchasers of the DLC - the right to make the active deliberate choice for that dungeon, to farm gear and outfits from it.

THIS! I have been thinking this through reading the entire thread.

The reward exists to fill out the groups for specific queued dungeons....not for doing a random dungeon. ESO+ members are disgruntled that non-eso+ get easier dungeons and want a level playing field.

So level the playing field and everyone gets DLC dungeons...but non-eso+ can't specifically queue for those dungeons. I guess the problem with that approach is the "sticker book". You are now allowing people who did not purchase the content to fill their sticker book with DLC sets. Or, you can just make those sets not drop for people who have not purchased the content or are not plus.

Then you get a whole new thread talking about how it is unfair to non-eso+.

Thats partially true. Some ESO+ plus members are disgruntled. Others are not. We pay for content and play that content.

Even with the system as is, if I queue for a random vet I am well aware that it may include vLoM. Im well aware that any time that happens someone else queued with a level 12 to guarantee a level 1 normal dungeon. They will get their bonus much faster. Im okay with that. Its not a competition. Im enjoying myself.

They can add a check box if theyd like, as long as they add one specifically for the DLCs Id be happy about it. If they wanted to be fair about it, they could always adjust the rewards.

They could implement this as well, and during ESO+ promotions thats essentially what happens, but I doubt thats an avenue that they would take.

DaveMoeDee

colossalvoids wrote: »

Well if that many people are really against filling others groups it's better remove rdf altogether and just assign rewards accordingly, like one crystal for normal, three-five for vet and ten-fifteen for vet dlc HM. Some experience can be granted for any first dungeon clear so can run your fg1 with no problem. Vets are rewarded, no one complaints that they're locked from anything or forced into.

Or have separate random queues for DLC with a higher reward. This might make some without access mad. But the higher reward in the DLC queue will fill out groups of those queueing for dungeons and lead to less people dropping as soon as they see their are in a DLC dungeon. You will get paired with people who know what they are doing.

I say have 4 random queues. Base game normal, DLC normal, Base game vet, DLC vet. Base game vs DLC has tiered rewards, and normal vs vet. Could be:

Base normal: 1 key
Base vet: 2 keys
DLC normal: 2 keys
DLC vet: 4 keys

It is good to have a queue for DLC, but fill it with competent people. It is annoying when you wait for a DLC dungeon you queued for and you get a group filled will people not up to the task who don't want to be there (and some will just leave the group).

The one problem with this is that we might end up in IC dungeons half the time as that will be the only dungeon that many can access.

hafgood

Or just leave it alone? Some of us are happy with it how it is

Oznog666

hafgood wrote: »

Or just leave it alone? Some of us are happy with it how it is

Exactly.

As it was already mentioned here and in similar threads more than one time the daily random dungeon queue is NOT part of the game to give us as fast as possible 100k xp and crystals. It is part of the game to build groups for all those players queuing for a specific dungeon but having no team to build a full group. IMHO you can see this queue as a kind of "social commitment": one is willing to play whatever dungeon comes ahead with whomever to help other players out and because of this there's a reward. And if you are lucky then this dungeon is part of your pledges and you will get an extra reward plus you may obtain sets you are still missing.

This is the reason why I ask almost every time at the beginning something like "anybody's having a quest here and would like to enjoy the story?" - even if it's a dungeon I played very often already or a boring one (i.e. March of Sacrifices with this hunting phase). If I'm very tired then it may happen that I'm not asking and if all other group members are having more than 500 CP I don't ask because I assume everybody is having the quest already.

BTW: Keys are not part of the daily random, they are part of the pledges. There's no need for mixing pledges with daily randoms.

Anifaas

This would be a smart move because it would improve the new user experience immensely. If the difficulty of dungeons in the queue was consistent, like most other games, this wouldn’t be an issue. But dumping newbs in the DLC dungeons is very shortsighted and favours the veteran at the newb’s expense.

Unsubbing shouldn’t be the only option.

hafgood

Anifaas wrote: »

This would be a smart move because it would improve the new user experience immensely. If the difficulty of dungeons in the queue was consistent, like most other games, this wouldn’t be an issue. But dumping newbs in the DLC dungeons is very shortsighted and favours the veteran at the newb’s expense.

Unsubbing shouldn’t be the only option.

This is actually not true. At level 10 only the very early dungeons are available, as the character goes up more become available, I think it's only level 45 that DLC get unlocked, and then only on normal.

So newbs are not dumped into DLC straight away, yes they will still be fairly new when they have the chance of a DLC dungeon but hopefully by then they have a little more experience

CP5

Given the experience expressed by plenty of the players I've seen in the queue, regardless of cp, they tend to not have experience. Tend to not get much in their earlier dungeons when experienced players are willing and able to just blitz through them, leaving them no chance to learn there either.

Araneae6537

I’m glad for the DLC dungeons, enjoy them, and am glad they are included in my queue with ESO+! Yesterday I queued for a random vet and got Moongrave Fane which I’d not done in a while. Several fights were a challenge (esp as I’m newer to tank role) but I found it enjoyable as we worked together to overcome it. One of the members had been running the dungeon a lot for specific gear so we grouped up later to run the dungeon a few more times and then another DLC that I needed gear from.

Soulshine

Honestly, I just don't get why this is such an issue.

I mean, if you say you don't want DLCs in the random queue because the experience you have with other players is always bad, removing the DLCs is not going to change that. You can just as easily have bad experiences in base game dungeons with other players as you can in DLCs. The obvious solution has been stated 1000 times if once: queue up with others you know; get in a guild; make at least a handful of acquaintances so you don't have this problem.

If you say you don't want DLCs in the random queue because you don't like the content itself, you DO have the option to queue up only for specific dungeons instead and forgo the reward of doing a random.

If you believe that having to forgo the reward is unfair, I don't have much response other than all choices have consequences and choosing to ignore well over half the content available to you in the game does bring with it certain barriers and this in fact, is but one.

The thing that I see in other MMOs which we don't have here is proper matching of players into queues, and different types of rewards for the different queue options they have.

By that, I mean matching up level 15s with other actual level 15s, vs matching a level CP2500 with a lvl 15 in a dungeon. Offering tiered reward system for choices, like more rewards and benefits for the highest difficulty setting chosen would be best in my view. Here it's just all the same which is truly the problem. Rewards for doing content in this game are way too mediocre imho.

And let me just point out about the matching that I am well aware there are plenty of CP2500s in purple crafted gear sets with all of their CPs applied masquerading around as lvl15s and wiping the floor in dungeons. You can in fact solo many of them this way since on top of the benefit of knowing the dungeon and having good gear, you are also battle leveled because of being below level 50. There are plenty of people who have such an alt on their account for the sole and exclusive purpose of running random dailies to farm transmutes without having to do DLCs. When they hit lvl45 - they delete the char and then just re-roll another. Rinse repeat. Not complaining about this; just pointing out that it's part of why so many players who are actual level 15s don't understand why another lvl 15 player, who appears to be non vet according to the game, is running 8000 miles an hour in FG1 to kill the boss asap.

Austacker

I've a simple process for this.

When I start to do my dailies, I queue for a random normal

If I get a DLC dungeon, I quit and go do the other dailies.

Rise and repeat.

I'd rather take the 15 minute cooldown penalty than waste my time.

I couldn't care less otherwise.

Amottica

HedgehogFeet wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

What the title says. Ideally remove it from the game and stop developing them. But at the very least don’t have me queue for a normal dungeon and get cradle of shadows where the healer immediately quits and leaves me [snip]

I love the craft bag but having dlc dungeons in my random queue when I want to just get my endeavour done and get some exp for my necro is a punishment I’m not sure is worth it. 90% of these dungeons you keep adding drop trash sets nobody uses and stories the go-go-go multiplayer part of the game has no interest in letting me experience. They’re pointless wastes of dev time that would be better served producing a second small zone dlc.

*Deep Breath* Just please let me untick DLC in ESO+ I don’t want access to.

[Snip for Insulting/Baiting]

I agree a tick box to remove dlc dungeons from the dungeon finder (as & when we feel like it) so we aren't punished for buying ESO +

We already have this option as we can select whatever dungeons we want to be considered. The purpose of the reward for the random dungeon is to have people available for all dungeons, every single one. There is a business interest for Zenimax to have the DLCs be part of the random since they do sell the random DLCs.

What would be great is if Zenimax did offer such a choice of including the DLC dungeons or not and provide a greater reward to those who included the DLCs, or a lesser reward to those who did not include the DLCs. They would have to figure out how to handle the reward based on how many DLC dungeons someone had access to, but this is the only way such a choice could work.

hafgood

Jpk0012 wrote: »

[snip]

The design of the DLC dungeons is often far better than that of non DLC. Yes some are a little long but then so are some of the non DLC ones.

I don't have any issues with any of the dungeons, and in fact prefer a DLC as a random normal over a non DLC because I'm bored of the non DLC ones having run them so many times getting all the achievements from them

[edited to remove quote]