Incentivize reading

Krayl

You're not incentivizing people to read them with a 20 second timer, you're just assuring people either wont bother or will use that time to look at their cell phones.

Adremal

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

• If yes, what would that look like for you? For reference, Tendrielle used the example of "Just reward it when leaving the book dialog 20 sec open or such, with double XP and companion favor."
• If no, let us know why.

No because other than what I already said and content varying vastly in comprehensibility (imagine a newbie stumbling upon one of the most obscure Kirkbride's writings), it'd feel, well, forced, and you'd also have to incentivize people to read (or listen to) quest text. Which is great the first time around, but not so much on alts. Same goes for a hypothetical bonus in companion rapport since rapport is not shared between characters. Learning more about lore is its own reward.
It'd be cool to have a library/lectern of sorts as a furnishing though. Merely for immersion and accessible to all, it'd have your character sit and sift through pages while going through shalidor's library/eidetic memory. More immersive than opening a menu or reading the book on external websites like UESP.

Sylvermynx

Adremal wrote: »

It'd be cool to have a library/lectern of sorts as a furnishing though. Merely for immersion and accessible to all, it'd have your character sit and sift through pages while going through shalidor's library/eidetic memory. More immersive than opening a menu or reading the book on external websites like UESP.

What a GREAT idea! +1000 from me!

spartaxoxo

I agree with this idea. The reward for it being offered is miniscule. There's plenty of far more rewarding content that I don't do, that I don't see how getting a tiny amount of exp could force anyone to do anything. By that logic this entire game is forced lol

Gaebriel0410

What I would like bookwise, is an accountwide eidetic memory, at least as an option.

Mostly because I don't do any TG or DB quests on my main character, which is the one I use to (slooooowly) collect the books, but there's a bunch of books that you can only get to during those TG and DB quests.

It's of course all self imposed thematic rules that I could easily amend, but it'd be great if all my characters could contribute to the collective library. Since well, there's so many books that I'd be fairly impossible to do it on everyone.

spartaxoxo

Some ideas for incentivizing lore book reading could be a little test (not too hard) on some books that rewards you library themed furnishings.

For example a book row with all of the books of a particular Mage's guild category if you pass.

A Master Librarian title or Lore Keeper title

An open book furnishing

A furnishing that has Quill, Inkwell, and manuscript all as one item

The read a lore book endeavor could be rewarded for getting to the last page and spending say 20 seconds with it open.

This game is steeped in lore, some super minor prizes for engaging a bit deeper into it seems fun and fair

Sylvermynx

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Some ideas for incentivizing lore book reading could be a little test (not too hard) on some books that rewards you library themed furnishings.

For example a book row with all of the books of a particular Mage's guild category if you pass.

A Master Librarian title or Lore Keeper title

An open book furnishing

A furnishing that has Quill, Inkwell, and manuscript all as one item

The read a lore book endeavor could be rewarded for getting to the last page and spending say 20 seconds with it open.

This game is steeped in lore, some super minor prizes for engaging a bit deeper into it seems fun and fair

Those are all super ideas!

ArcVelarian

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for raising the topic, @Tendrielle. It's an interesting one. Let's expand it a bit. Would players like to be incentivized for lore reading?

• If yes, what would that look like for you? For reference, Tendrielle used the example of "Just reward it when leaving the book dialog 20 sec open or such, with double XP and companion favor."
• If no, let us know why.

Feedback like this is helpful and can be passed along to the dev team. Just remember that these are player opinions. Community Rules still apply. Now let's hear some thoughts!

Also may the Divines bless you, @Tenthirty2 and @Gaebriel0410.

Yes. If you guys were to ever add any Mage's Guild dailies you could make reading (and comprehension) part of the steps necessary to gain highly desirable bonus rewards. Also, you could things like randomized riddles, puzzles, or written hints in dungeons to unlock bonus loot.

Indigogo

I think it's something you either enjoy and appreciate, or you don't.

Short of bribing me with a big reward of gold or transmutes locked behind some sort of quiz proving I'd read the thing, I can't be incentivised to read them.
Otherwise any time gate would just result in an open book with not a word read.

Wolf_Eye

I don't....think I understand. The whole reward of reading a lore book is to get the juicy lore knowledge it tells you about.

Similarly, the whole point of reading the Lord of the Rings series is to read a fantastic adventure story about a hobbit and his battle against a dark lord alongside his friends. The whole point of reading is because the reading itself provides entertainment.

If you do not find entertainment in reading, then I do not think any amount of additional reward is going to make it less tedious for you. In which case, you can look up shorter synopsis on a wiki to save yourself the time of reading through something too long if you're still interested in a particular bit of lore.

spartaxoxo

I enjoy reading but sometimes reading in this game feels like a waste of time because it's one of the only activities that gives you nothing for doing it. And the reading in this game is also obviously way more shallow then the books I'd read outside of game. Ironically I don't feel the same way while reading the Wiki, which I do from time to time. UESP, naturally. Probably because that is divorced from the game itself.

NeeScrolls

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

The whole reward of reading a lore book is to get the juicy lore knowledge it tells you about.

I totally agree with you philosophically and said just as much in my earlier post on page 1.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

reading in this game feels like a waste of time because it's one of the only activities that gives you nothing for doing it. .

That ^ is an inaccurate statement sparta, as i attempted to explain within my post from bottom of page 1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Some ideas

A Master Librarian title or Lore Keeper title
An open book furnishing
A furnishing that has Quill, Inkwell, and manuscript all as one item

ArcVelarian wrote: »

If you guys were to ever add any Mage's Guild dailies you could make reading (and comprehension) part of the steps necessary to gain highly desirable bonus rewards. Also, you could things like randomized riddles, puzzles, or written hints in dungeons to unlock bonus loot.

However, also mentioned in my post from page 1 as a caveat, SWG was able to utilize the whole "comprehension" aspect to great success (albeit a different era of gamers mindset) and so, if it were coded properly, i think both sparta & ArcVel have some solid ideas for a potential *QUIZ* system or whatever.

Almost any types of cool side-games (steeped in lore of course) that can give players a much needed break from the same ole kill-loot-rinse-repeat routine is a welcomed breath of fresh MMO air in my book. (sorry for the pun )
.

G1Countdown

Some great ideas in this thread.

I would also like to see a bookcase that is a container for the owner. The bookcase can hold one book (from the mages guild/crown store). When users interact with the bookcase, it is just like a bookcase in the in-game world.

Failing that the bookcase is a container in the above idea, I also thought permanently merging a bookcase and a bookcase together would be a cool idea too.

Wolf_Eye

I think maybe I just don't understand. To me, reading the lore books is great fun because I enjoy reading for reading's sake. So maybe I just don't comprehend the idea of "incentivizing" it.

It would be like saying "we should encourage people to eat chocolate by making it more enjoyable"; I thought the eating of chocolate was already enjoyable.


But as long as you do not ask to take away my tasty enjoyable lore books (or my chocolate), then I suppose I have nothing against "extra incentives".

But I do not know if a timer is a good idea; I can read very fast, so I might be already done with a lorebook before the timer runs out. This might be especially tricky if there's a monster trying to attack me. And also what about lorebooks we've already read on a different character?

spartaxoxo

NeeScrolls wrote: »

That ^ is an inaccurate statement sparta, as i attempted to explain within my post from bottom of page 1

No. It is not, because you get those rewards for finding and activating the lorebook, not for reading it. In this thread that is obviously an important distinction as the entire point of it is that actually taking time to read the book is unrewarding as in comparison to just clicking it and immediately closing it.

Hapexamendios

No, I can usually read the pages in less than 20 seconds.

NeeScrolls

spartaxoxo wrote: »

No. It is not, because you get those rewards for finding and activating the lorebook, not for reading it. In this thread that is obviously an important distinction as the entire point of it is that actually taking time to read the book is unrewarding as in comparison to just clicking it and immediately closing it.

I think you're parsing words using semantics, including how the game perceives "reading", since there's no way from a code perspective to measure whether or not someone has actually read the book.

Regardless, i also respectfully disagree with your personal opinion of "unrewarding" , since as others have stated: The true reward IS indeed from the reading itself...which of course is up to each individual PLAYER to either appreciate or not.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea for some new 'quiz achievement' or whatever (as long as the questions are randomized per character) but i guess i just think players should be careful to keep on asking for so much extra fluff all the time when Zenimax clearly has their hands full with more substantial game overhauls, content, fixes, etc.

Next people are gonna want a new system to measure whether players have actually read quest dialogs & journal entries.

Troodon80

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for raising the topic, @Tendrielle. It's an interesting one. Let's expand it a bit. Would players like to be incentivized for lore reading?

• If yes, what would that look like for you? For reference, Tendrielle used the example of "Just reward it when leaving the book dialog 20 sec open or such, with double XP and companion favor."
• If no, let us know why.

Feedback like this is helpful and can be passed along to the dev team. Just remember that these are player opinions. Community Rules still apply. Now let's hear some thoughts!

Also may the Divines bless you, @Tenthirty2 and @Gaebriel0410.

So far as incentive goes, like @SilverBride suggested, something like achievements for reading would be nice. But that's an incentive to collect rather than read? You also have the daily Endeavours for reading lorebooks, but, again, that's simply for opening, not reading. At least it might incentivise people to collect.

On the collection front, I'd also like to point to the various Eidetic Memory topics for bugged books.

I honestly don't believe people should need an incentive to read. Reading should be its own pleasure and if you're not getting satisfaction from it, then that's an individual issue that likely won't be resolved by granting more experience points (people will, as suggested, open a book and go do something else until an addon or other timer pings; it's like fishing, people will open a YouTube video and wait until an addon tells them to pay attention, which is... really sad).

So far as quizzes go, there's also Google "What's the answer to X question in ESO?" which also won't prove someone has read something.

SilverBride

As I said earlier, some players are going to read and some aren't, and that should be the player's choice. But for those who do enjoy it, why not have some achievements, titles, special furnishings or other rewards? An emote of being curled up in a chair with an open book in your lap. Or a personality that occasionally flips through a book. Or a bookworm pet. So many possibilities.

Knockmaker

Although the books in the series are generally worth reading, I don't find it particularly viable to introduce a minimum time requirement to impose reading the books, npcs dialogues, quests etc. The game and the whole series boast about high degree of freedom in what you can do in the games and how you can play them. Furthermore, this game, in particular, is an mmo and you do need to do a lot of other things to develop your characters. I don't think a lot of players often have overabundance of free time to do to a lot of things they want to do in the game, particularly on weekdays. Introducing such restriction/requirement would contradict with one of the selling points of the whole series. Not to mention how such things can become a time consuming grind such as the grind for mages guild. I don't see how that helps incentivize reading when you are already asked to do a lot of book-hunting and reading in that example, which becomes a boring grind you want to get over with after some point inevitably.

I also enjoy reading books I find in eso from time to time. I don't think people should need "requirements/limitations" labeled as "incentive" to spend more time reading books. Speaking of a game especially, it should be something one would do to their own pleasure.

Troodon80

SilverBride wrote: »

As I said earlier, some players are going to read and some aren't, and that should be the player's choice. But for those who do enjoy it, why not have some achievements, titles, special furnishings or other rewards? An emote of being curled up in a chair with an open book in your lap. Or a personality that occasionally flips through a book. Or a bookworm pet. So many possibilities.

Agreed, it would be nice. I have all books barring those which are bugged (only three for me, others have more which are bugged). I don't need to be rewarded, but I won't say no if it happened.

I also agree that some people will read and some people won't. The topic, however, is to incentivise reading, not simply collecting. I don't believe that's something ZOS can realistically do. That needs to happen on an individual level. You're either invested in reading or you're not. If you're not, then ZOS can't really "force" or incentivise it.

Regarding quizzes, for example, ZOS have already dabbled in this. Old Orsinium, among others (and there are several examples). The notes for which orc clan crests to press in order (side note: if you've previously read Orc Clans and Symbology, which is a book used in another puzzle during the main Orsinium questline, you'll already have a headstart). Whenever I go there, there are people just trying to brute force the solution or asking in Say chat for the solution. Reading is apparently hard. You'd think even impossibly hard. Then there are solutions offered online, which completely negate the need to read or comprehend.

spartaxoxo

NeeScrolls wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

No. It is not, because you get those rewards for finding and activating the lorebook, not for reading it. In this thread that is obviously an important distinction as the entire point of it is that actually taking time to read the book is unrewarding as in comparison to just clicking it and immediately closing it.

I think you're parsing words using semantics, including how the game perceives "reading", since there's no way from a code perspective to measure whether or not someone has actually read the book.

I am not parsing anything. That is literally the subject of this entire thread. Finding a way to reward reading the book instead of clicking on it.

You said my statement was inaccurate and I am letting you know it was not. There are no in-game rewards for reading the book rather than clicking on it. And the purpose of this thread is to come up with ideas to maybe change that.

Kevin has indicated that is an idea they find interesting and are gathering feedback to that end. I personally think that minor fluff is exactly what we should be asking for since big changes are coming. They are gonna release more content besides just those changes, might as well request stuff that is smaller in scale but fun for players.

SilverBride wrote: »

But for those who do enjoy it, why not have some achievements, titles, special furnishings or other rewards? An emote of being curled up in a chair with an open book in your lap. Or a personality that occasionally flips through a book. Or a bookworm pet. So many possibilities.

I like these ideas, the chair one especially would be cool. Or perhaps a sittable furnishing with that unique animation, similar to the Vivec throne having one.

spartaxoxo

Knockmaker wrote: »

I also enjoy reading books I find in eso from time to time. I don't think people should need "requirements/limitations" labeled as "incentive" to spend more time reading books. Speaking of a game especially, it should be something one would do to their own pleasure.

The OP proposal is optional. You could just open and close for all the normal rewards, or read the book for a tiny reward. The exp from reading books is not big.

Troodon80 wrote: »

Regarding quizzes, for example, ZOS have already dabbled in this. Old Orsinium, among others (and there are several examples). The notes for which orc clan crests to press in order (side note: if you've previously read Orc Clans and Symbology, which is a book used in another puzzle during the main Orsinium questline, you'll already have a headstart). Whenever I go there, there are people just trying to brute force the solution or asking in Say chat for the solution. Reading is apparently hard. You'd think even impossibly hard. Then there are solutions offered online, which completely negate the need to read or comprehend.

While that's true, I think that kinda misses the point. The point is to incentive people to read not force it. The kind of person that likes to read but might skip it in-game because they have other things they need to do may slow down and read the book instead. Or someone may decide meh I'll just read it because they don't feel like googling it or whatever may get incentivized to read. People who want the reading prizes and don't like looking things up on principle will be incentivizes to read.

And people who don't want to do it won't do it. The incentive is small so it's not something that most people will feel forced to do anymore than any other activity, all of which also have these kinds of rewards.

Knockmaker

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

I also enjoy reading books I find in eso from time to time. I don't think people should need "requirements/limitations" labeled as "incentive" to spend more time reading books. Speaking of a game especially, it should be something one would do to their own pleasure.

The OP proposal is optional. You could just open and close for all the normal rewards, or read the book for a tiny reward. The exp from reading books is not big.

I find additional reward for taking your time to read a book quite reasonable. Introducing a minimum time requirement before you can close/put it away, on the other hand, is simply a restriction and doesn't seem reasonable due to the reasons I mentioned above. That is what I meant. I am also in favour of additional reward for actually taking your time and actually reading a book.

spartaxoxo

Knockmaker wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

I also enjoy reading books I find in eso from time to time. I don't think people should need "requirements/limitations" labeled as "incentive" to spend more time reading books. Speaking of a game especially, it should be something one would do to their own pleasure.

The OP proposal is optional. You could just open and close for all the normal rewards, or read the book for a tiny reward. The exp from reading books is not big.

I find additional reward for taking your time to read a book quite reasonable. Introducing a minimum time requirement before you can close/put it away, on the other hand, is simply a restriction and doesn't seem reasonable due to the reasons I mentioned above. That is what I meant. I am also in favour of additional reward for actually taking your time and actually reading a book.

I think he meant that you get a tiny bonus if you choose to leave it open that long, rather than preventing anyone from closing it before that time has passed.

If he did mean you can't close it then, I am also against that. So I guess we're pretty much in agreement.

Drammanoth

Speaking of the MG, if you think that after reading enough books and immediately getting lvl 10 you will get some bonuses, this is not so.

Before I joined the MG, I had been collecting as many as I could. And sure enough, MAGES GUILD LEVEL 10 popped up.

The only thing that I did notice was a discrepancy between the dialogue displayed and what the NPC was saying.

Just my two cents.

Skall66

No, please no, it's an awfull idea.
The lore you read IS the reward.
If you think you should have xp because you spend time reading and so miss some, then why not rewarding people for the time they spend decorating their houses, changing outfit, listening or reading npc dialog instead of skipping it, walking instead of running, roleplaying, being afk?
If you want to farm xp and rush everything it's ok, if you want to take your time reading and exploring everything it's ok too, the reward for the first is xp, for the second it's discovering and being part of a rich world.

Tra_Lalan

Give us an option to read those books later, while we're fishing.

spartaxoxo

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

Give us an option to read those books later, while we're fishing.

Being able to read while fishing would be pretty cool.

Troodon80

spartaxoxo wrote: »

While that's true, I think that kinda misses the point. The point is to incentive people to read not force it. The kind of person that likes to read but might skip it in-game because they have other things they need to do may slow down and read the book instead. Or someone may decide meh I'll just read it because they don't feel like googling it or whatever may get incentivized to read. People who want the reading prizes and don't like looking things up on principle will be incentivizes to read.

And people who don't want to do it won't do it. The incentive is small so it's not something that most people will feel forced to do anymore than any other activity, all of which also have these kinds of rewards.

If someone has other things they want to do, the incentive would have to be great enough to outweigh whatever that other thing is they want to do. I used Old Orsinium as an example because it's one of the few places where in order to complete the public dungeon (getting the skill point and skyshard) you must do the quest up to that point. That's about as much incentive as you can give someone, and many people won't do it. "There's a nice reward here. Your options are: read this book and work out the solution, look up the solution, do it as a group/get someone else to help you with the solution." Most people I've seen in there will pick the latter two.

That's also without considering doing this on potentially 18 characters (or more) or addons (on PC) which outright give you the solutions or ping you when some implemented arbitrary timer grants you the double XP.

I can understand incentivising people to collect books. That's something you can code (please fix the bugged books, though). But I don't see how ZOS can incentivise reading. Some people will, some people won't. Those who enjoy reading are already doing it and don't need incentive. Those who won't will just look up whatever is needed online. Some people also enjoy reading the books outside the game and use a Wiki/Fandom or UESP. Also, many of the books existed well before ESO. I know most of them from previous Elder Scrolls titles and have read them many, many times. Most from Morrowind. Some of which were edited, presumably for a modern market; one such small edit is the description of Molag Bal in The House of Troubles (things like that won't be noticed much by people who don't read them).

But out of all the incentives mentioned so far, things like quizzes and achievements, none of them will really work. Quizzes will have online solutions and (on PC) addons (see Old Orsinium example again). Achievements will have to be linked to either quizzes/quests (see Old Orsinium example again) or simply track the number of books collected. Applying double XP for having the book open isn't an incentive to read, especially considering how much XP you get for a book at the moment; you'd be better off not doing it.