Incentivize reading

HertoginJanneke

Big no.This suggestions sounds like punishment from the Dark Ages.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for raising the topic, @Tendrielle. It's an interesting one. Let's expand it a bit. Would players like to be incentivized for lore reading?

• If yes, what would that look like for you? For reference, Tendrielle used the example of "Just reward it when leaving the book dialog 20 sec open or such, with double XP and companion favor."
• If no, let us know why.

Feedback like this is helpful and can be passed along to the dev team. Just remember that these are player opinions. Community Rules still apply. Now let's hear some thoughts!

Also may the Divines bless you, @Tenthirty2 and @Gaebriel0410.

Honestly I can't think of anything worse than punishing players for not engaging with content in the 'proper' way which is how such a suggestion if it was implemented will be.

If players enjoy something let that be their reward.

Tendrielle

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

I also enjoy reading books I find in eso from time to time. I don't think people should need "requirements/limitations" labeled as "incentive" to spend more time reading books. Speaking of a game especially, it should be something one would do to their own pleasure.

The OP proposal is optional. You could just open and close for all the normal rewards, or read the book for a tiny reward. The exp from reading books is not big.

I find additional reward for taking your time to read a book quite reasonable. Introducing a minimum time requirement before you can close/put it away, on the other hand, is simply a restriction and doesn't seem reasonable due to the reasons I mentioned above. That is what I meant. I am also in favour of additional reward for actually taking your time and actually reading a book.

I think he meant that you get a tiny bonus if you choose to leave it open that long, rather than preventing anyone from closing it before that time has passed.

If he did mean you can't close it then, I am also against that. So I guess we're pretty much in agreement.

Yea I did mean just a very short waiting time (maybe depending on book length somewhat) for a tiny bonus. If you then take the time to read, its up to you. But maybe, like me, you then think "why not read some of it while its open?" and discover that those texts are actually quite lovely and the whole fantasy world makes more sense this way.

I do think a little incentivizing is important because this is what leveling games are about: providing easy to reach achievements for your personal pleasure - whether xp, companion favor and/or other ingame achievements.

Kesstryl

I do actually read the books when I purchase them from the Mystic and put them in my homes. In game I think I read one in a delve, but usually I'm too busy fighting or focused on a quest objective to stop and read something. I do like the idea though, but I don't think it would be welcomed by players. It's an interesting idea. I don't know how that would work RP wise, I mean sometimes your char is in a hurry to save someone or stop a Daedric Prince and won't waste time reading a book to get there. I think of it as my char actually picks up the book and takes it home (mechanic of buying from the Mystic and placing it in home).

LalMirchi

Incentivizing reading is a very good idea as long as the rewards are miniscule so as not to punish those who do not participate.

Tendrielle

Kesstryl wrote: »

I do actually read the books when I purchase them from the Mystic and put them in my homes. In game I think I read one in a delve, but usually I'm too busy fighting or focused on a quest objective to stop and read something. I do like the idea though, but I don't think it would be welcomed by players. It's an interesting idea. I don't know how that would work RP wise, I mean sometimes your char is in a hurry to save someone or stop a Daedric Prince and won't waste time reading a book to get there. I think of it as my char actually picks up the book and takes it home (mechanic of buying from the Mystic and placing it in home).

Well, yea, you could get the tiny reading bonus the moment you have the book appropriately long time open, why not also later in case you abort a potential timer. So you then actually get a bonus for discovering/collecting a book (as now) and another small one for reading.

And, btw, in case there is a timer one can also hold the food & xp buffs running while having the book open, eventually. So then the read (or just break) is even like a little rest.

_adhyffbjjjf12

If people don't enjoy reading books then adding another reward is not going to matter or worse make some people endure content they don't enjoy. Books adds great flavour to the game and a great asset of ESO, but I mostly don't read them, but its nice to know there are there, and others do enjoy them so win win.

KilianDermoth

I dont think that it is a good thing to force people reading the books.

But the thing is, IF you want to read all the books and lore, the game makes it hard to do so. I think this is the real issue here.

I tried to read all books, and spent several hours doing so, but there are books in group content (cyrodil, dungeons, trials) also there are books behind content that unlocks stuff (like companions, skill lines and so on). So if you want to play with others, you are somehow forced to rush and not to read the books, thats the real issue and thats the reason while I stopped reading them and began to rush, too. Also I had to rush content (with books and notes included) which I had done later if they didnt unlock stuff like psijic skill line or companions. In all that cases you get really punished if you want to read the books.

Forcing all people, by adding a little bonus after a few seconds and other similar suggestions wont fix that issue at all, people who dont care will still rush and close the book after exactly 20 seconds without reading, makeing everyone else still rush. Also there are people who might already have read that book on one char and dont want to be forced to read it again on another.

My suggestion is: dont force people who dont want to read, reading books, make it easier for those who want read the books!

1. This can be done by several means, for example by removeing books from group content and placeing them in solo content.

2. Its btw. the same issue with quests in group content (dungeons, trials, cyrodil and imperial city included), so another solution could be a story mode for group content (solo difficulty for dungeons, trials, non pvp instance of cyrodil and imperial city, where npcs do the fighting stuff).

3. There is a library ingame where you can look up all read books, but the thing is that it is very difficult to find the last books you have collected and to see which of them you have / havent really read. So the bare minimum solution would be a history of last read books, a possibility to filter by instance / zone and the possibility to mark books as read by yourself (because opening a book doesnt mean someone has read it).

Also if you open a book, you should be able to see if you already have read it or if it is new (own manual tags!), because it happend several times to me, that I didnt remember the title, started reading and thought, that I have already read it. Further it happend a few times, that I had to stop in between (while I for example got attacked or someone else was chatting with me) and I never finished that book, in this case it is very difficult to find that book ever again. Make that manual tagging stuff acount wide (its nonsense that many stuff isnt account wide in this game..)!

I have looked for addons who might accomplish that, there was one specific for books, it had a history but the usability was bad and I think it had no manual tagging or I just havent found it. At least it didnt really made it easier.

Castian

Maybe Quests should be tucked into the books. I'm thinking ciphering quests out of books could be a fun puzzle.

Drammanoth

Castian wrote: »

Maybe Quests should be tucked into the books. I thinking ciphering quests out of books could be a fun puzzle.

Got any example? Because I would REALLY like to see that. And verily, this is a truly brillain idea!

_adhyffbjjjf12

Drammanoth wrote: »

Castian wrote: »

Maybe Quests should be tucked into the books. I thinking ciphering quests out of books could be a fun puzzle.

Got any example? Because I would REALLY like to see that. And verily, this is a truly brillain idea!

agree great idea that i would love to see as well. Re original point, it does not incentivise reading ofc, which is impossible really (any parent will tell you about that fight!)

Andromea

To be honest I feel like putting an optional 20 sec timer / page (or book) so that the game would consider that you read it and gives you a reward, well it seems somewhat forced and thus annoying.

I actually do try to take time and read the books while playing even though it's not always easy - monsters attacking, party fighting etc. But then I've always enjoyed reading. Being able to read them later is a great existing option. Marking books as read or want to read would be even better. A possibility to sort books by (collecting) date, read, want to read, favorite… nothing very sophisticated. Very much as suggested by @KilianDermoth

The rewards then. Well, there could be some new ones, that's for sure but not really related to the time you keep a book open. I love the idea of a furnishing - an armchair maybe ? Where you could just read your book and sip a glass of wine while visible for your guests (herbal tea if you prefer or a strawberry milk). You could get this item for an achievement for instance. Why not a whole new line of achievements related to new (or existing ) books that work like puzzles. (And yes, I'm referring to an other game here starting with r). Some might have easy solutions, others could be more difficult with related quests, antiquities etc so that you can't just google the solution. You could even call it Tamriel's first book club.

The rewards though should always be not essential. A dress, a furnishing item, a title, an emote, new books. Not a new necklace that would give you some super powers nor xp.

Not really related to the topic but… how nice would it be if the books in housing were considered as special items with a separate count. I was so happy when I got my first books from the merchant and arranged them nicely in my inn room. Less so when I discovered how many furnishing slots they took up… But really, the books are such an important part of this game, a little effort here would be immensely appreciated.

Adremal

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

Give us an option to read those books later, while we're fishing.

Being able to read while fishing would be pretty cool.

If a fishing overhaul isn't going to happen, this would be great to prevent people from falling asleep on their desks or ALT+F4ing out of exhaustion.

etchedpixels

Four words "Play as you want"

Having a timer on book reading is about as sensible as auto-porting people into a random normal dungeon "because they've not done one this week"

Achievements for 1000/2000/3000 books and a title of Bookworm or similar sure (Librarian is already used for something else). Something similar for the sticker book too.

Wolfpaw

I don't find that stuff interesting much at all.
Dev time could be spent on other stuff like PvP.

Castian

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

Drammanoth wrote: »

Castian wrote: »

Maybe Quests should be tucked into the books. I thinking ciphering quests out of books could be a fun puzzle.

Got any example? Because I would REALLY like to see that. And verily, this is a truly brillain idea!

agree great idea that i would love to see as well. Re original point, it does not incentivise reading ofc, which is impossible really (any parent will tell you about that fight!)

Lets say a certain set of books has a cipher laying around waiting to be found, much like how we find museum pieces. The cipher allows you to pick out information from the books which lead you to a spot that activates a quest, which is a form of incentive as quests yield money/exp/adventure and possibly an item.

Varana

Ever tried reading even a tiny snippet during a random normal?

As many others have said, short of implementing lore-based quests or quizzes, ZOS can't do anything to find out whether players have actually been reading. Rewards for "reading" will just reward time spent having a book on screen, and I don't think that's helpful.

I read books on the UESP. The font is infinitely better and more readable, I can search and choose, I can do it when I want to read, not while playing through a dungeon, and so on. ESO, a rather graphics-intensive and resource-hungry game, is a terrible choice to be used as a Kindle substitute.

Having books better integrated into the quest design, is a great idea. But it's a great idea in general, not just because it may incentivise reading.
Having more book-related furnishing stuff and emotes is a great idea. But again, it's a great idea in general, not as a reward for having your computer heat the room while going to the loo, or looking at second-monitor content.

spartaxoxo

Reading is probably the only activity in this game that comes with zero incentives.

Housing comes with achievements and titles.

Fishing has Roe, Pyandonea Motifs, and Achievement furnishing.

Even changing your outfit has a little something something.

Krayl

If you wanna make some kind of antiquities-like mini game out of it that adds some kind of loremaster skill line that maybe increased your gain from reading books and unlocked the furniture people are talking about and other perks? That would be something.

I enjoy reading some of the lore, but some of it is also generic and rightly so, its a huge game, not every bit of text and lore is going to be a master work. Plus a lot of it is recycled from lore books some of us have ready mulitple times for literal decades . . .

spartaxoxo

Krayl wrote: »

If you wanna make some kind of antiquities-like mini game out of it that adds some kind of loremaster skill line that maybe increased your gain from reading books and unlocked the furniture people are talking about and other perks? That would be something.

I enjoy reading some of the lore, but some of it is also generic and rightly so, its a huge game, not every bit of text and lore is going to be a master work. Plus a lot of it is recycled from lore books some of us have ready mulitple times for literal decades . . .

Ohhh an antiquities mini game sounds fun

colossalvoids

Discussion seems to hit a different direction in comparison to what started it really so i'd chime in again to say that i'm all in to have more content for some of us who actually reads through the contents like making lore-lib an actual in-game furnishing where you can possibly browse your collected books, maybe having different animations unlocked whilst (or for) reading and spending your times here, new personalities and maybe even skill line with a passive helping to spot a lorebook easier etc. (yeah, we defo need more glow on a screen... but at least some that are bugged would indicate where they should actually be to bugreport correctly with visual evidences)

But still i'd include a piece from our mutual in-universe Uncle on a topic, and i can only agree with him (starting at 11:23):
https://youtu.be/nivB0f8NOyM?t=683

Any content added shouldn't serve as a problem for other players who don't want to engage in it period but as an extension for ones who into it. No artificial time gates of wait X to proceed etc.

Varana

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Reading is probably the only activity in this game that comes with zero incentives.

Housing comes with achievements and titles.

Fishing has Roe, Pyandonea Motifs, and Achievement furnishing.

Even changing your outfit has a little something something.

But ZOS really heavily incentivises looking at books. The game has a whole skill line with titles and dyes that progresses by looking at books, you get skill progression from looking at books, furnishing items (not very good ones, but still)...

ESO tries very hard to have you look at books. And that's about the only thing ZOS can do. Whether you actually read and understand the book - they can't see that. [snip]

[edited for inappropriate content]

Tendrielle

Well, with a short open book timer for a tiny bonus which you can always abort (and later restart, just when it ends, you do get the bonus), you create an ingame minibreak which I personally would embrace and use (unless in some multiplayer instance), most times for reading i guess. I do think I would love such a break, especially when it also holds the food/xp bonuses running, which sometimes make me stress out a bit, tbh.

I understand, however, there a quite divergent opinions here.

keto3000

Good topic!

Currently, once you've maxed Mage Guild skilline and your other skills, lore books no longer give any reward.

I would like to see lore books continue to give RNG additional perks even AFTER you hv maxed MG skilline and skills.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for raising the topic, @Tendrielle. It's an interesting one. Let's expand it a bit. Would players like to be incentivized for lore reading?

• If yes, what would that look like for you? For reference, Tendrielle used the example of "Just reward it when leaving the book dialog 20 sec open or such, with double XP and companion favor."
• If no, let us know why.

Feedback like this is helpful and can be passed along to the dev team. Just remember that these are player opinions. Community Rules still apply. Now let's hear some thoughts!

Also may the Divines bless you, @Tenthirty2 and @Gaebriel0410.

Onigar

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for raising the topic, @Tendrielle. It's an interesting one. Let's expand it a bit. Would players like to be incentivized for lore reading?

• If yes, what would that look like for you? For reference, Tendrielle used the example of "Just reward it when leaving the book dialog 20 sec open or such, with double XP and companion favor."
• If no, let us know why.

Feedback like this is helpful and can be passed along to the dev team. Just remember that these are player opinions. Community Rules still apply. Now let's hear some thoughts!

Also may the Divines bless you, @Tenthirty2 and @Gaebriel0410.

For many years I thought there should be a way to introduce a more dynamic "lore knowledge" activity for players.

My idea is slightly different and would make use of Companions.

The amount of text within each lore book is generally not so much and for Only the books a player (or character?) has collected then the companion could read from the collection based on a few selectable rules.

Each Companion could have a new quest where in the end they are granted a title of "Lore Master" as well as a player selectable voice that will be different from their normal one. Computer generated voice from text would be the way to do this and the way these programs work now using natural voices can be more than acceptable.

To start a narration and change to the Lore Master voice, the companion could have a number of preset phrases like; "Eh, Um, let me tell you a story or two, ..."

I like this idea and feel like it is a way to increase the immersion aspect of the game as well as perhaps a motivation for collecting more lore books.

Tendrielle

Ok, now after this post I actually started reading books ingame, and most time quite enjoyed it :-) Still up for more game rewards, but well.

Now I want to get an overview of ESO Lore and also complete my Lore Library, but that seems very difficult to achieve. The books are grouped in categories which do not indicate any Historic succession or such. Any hints on that? Addons that help? Or should i just resort to webpages, which would somehow be ... dunno.

TaSheen

LoreBooks addon by Kyoma.

Tendrielle

Thanks, I had uninstalled it some years ago after completing the eidetic library. Now its up again, hopefully showing me my unread lore books, too!

Any hints here on the order in which I should read all those books?

TaSheen

I typically start with the zones pertinent to the character I'm starting to read them on - so for my mains that would be Daggerfall Covenant, reading them in game order from Stros M'kai through Rivenspire and following on with added DLC content. Then before I read everything else non-germane to DC on those characters, I'll pick up a character on AD, and then one on EP, and read those zones.

After that, I'll read DLC zones, and anything I have from the group content areas and Cyrodiil/IC (not that much as I don't do group content or pvp).

I generally don't read for "lore reasons" on every alt - I have a ton of alts, and after reading the faction zone books on mains, I tend to just get what I have to have for mages guild on alts I need that for (which isn't all of them for sure).

Tornaad

What I would like to see is something like what happened in Morrowind where reading a book opened up dialog options to use when talking with certain NPC's.