Real tanks problems = (why no tanks in game) :

zaria · December 2021

Michaelkeir wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I confess I don't understand the objection that tanks can't "tank" solo arenas. Personal experience here - my main tank couldn't tank her way past the first arena in VMA the first time I tried it.

Why don't I have a problem with that?

Because solo play means doing it ALL.

Solo play means that we are tank, healer, and damage dealer. We've got to be able to take hits and survive them. We've got to be able to heal ourself. And yes, we've got to be able to deal damage too. If we can't deal enough damage to kill stuff before it or the mechanics kill us...well, this isn't a group dungeon where we're protecting the DDs who are actually going to kill stuff. Its just us. We, solo, fulfill all three roles.

Healers don't heal vMA to death.

Tanks can't tank vMA to death.

DDs who can't tank hits when needed or heal themselves aren't going to DPS vMA to death because their glass cannon is gonna be shattered.

Solo content means doing it ALL. So I can't say I understand the objection that Tanks should get to tank their way through a solo arena. I mean, the first time I tried vMA on my tank, she was probably doing 6-8k DPS in her full tank gear. And you think I should've been able to complete the arena with that?

Personally, I figure that's rather low for an arena meant to challenge players to do it ALL, and so I can't say I'm surprised that I hit difficulties in the first arena.

I thought the game was "Play as you want". Are you suggesting that does not mean they want I choose to play can do anything in the game?

That’s the thing. You can “Play as you want”, but they never said you’d be able to do everything in the game well. So you could technically play as a bare fisted Nord if you wanted or sneak thief high-elf assassin. And run some vet stuff, just don’t expect to do it in a timely manner. Besides the play as you want “wall” was made mostly by the community and not the delves. So if a guild or group refuses to let you run with them with less then optimized builds then that has nothing to do with the devs.

As as far as tanks being able to run things, they can. As others have said, it’s possible to run solo vet arenas on tanks, but common sense would tell you to run a DPS set to get through it in a timely manner. I’ve run a sword and board dragon knight tank through vet Maelstrom Arena and only thing I changed was I added self crafted dps set to help with the damage.

Now with the armory system, you can literally change specs on the fly so you could swap between a tank spec and dps spec in an instant or a trip to your house if you choose not to pay for the convenience of having the guy with you.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I confess I don't understand the objection that tanks can't "tank" solo arenas. Personal experience here - my main tank couldn't tank her way past the first arena in VMA the first time I tried it.

Why don't I have a problem with that?

Because solo play means doing it ALL.

Solo play means that we are tank, healer, and damage dealer. We've got to be able to take hits and survive them. We've got to be able to heal ourself. And yes, we've got to be able to deal damage too. If we can't deal enough damage to kill stuff before it or the mechanics kill us...well, this isn't a group dungeon where we're protecting the DDs who are actually going to kill stuff. Its just us. We, solo, fulfill all three roles.

Healers don't heal vMA to death.

Tanks can't tank vMA to death.

DDs who can't tank hits when needed or heal themselves aren't going to DPS vMA to death because their glass cannon is gonna be shattered.

Solo content means doing it ALL. So I can't say I understand the objection that Tanks should get to tank their way through a solo arena. I mean, the first time I tried vMA on my tank, she was probably doing 6-8k DPS in her full tank gear. And you think I should've been able to complete the arena with that?

Personally, I figure that's rather low for an arena meant to challenge players to do it ALL, and so I can't say I'm surprised that I hit difficulties in the first arena.

You have special vMA builds for DD for easy clears, they are more like PvP builds than meta DD builds as you need sturdiness and self heals. Most used this for their first vMA clears.
Yes if you farmed it a lot you don't need an specialized build.

And this made me want to try out my magplar in vMA as the DD/heal setup I use in dungeons.
Obviously not in the trial setup that would be stupid, but she has gearing from DD with off heals, spc and orbs, then get an resto staff ending at trial healing. But she has not done vMA.

Now an magic DD is not so far from an healer, its smart to have an backup resto staff if needed.
Fake tank and healer, random normal in march of sacrifice there only two had done it before was a messy fun

First boss is most fun, was on an stamplar and its interesting how much healing they can do now with hybridization

Recommended for the magblade to get an resto staff for stuff like this.

Tanks is more single purpose, now you could use an vMA or PvP build with taunt to tank all the non dlc in HM easy enough.
So tank on these builds.

Arkew · December 2021

played the game before morrowing go out as main healer/tank.

after elswer-greymor chapter i beginned to asking myself did i wear this stuff because iwant play with it or by other ppl ask for it.

by just thinking i just resulted healer tank are just slave of dd and doing wear set for help them to kill ennemy more fast for not have to deal with mechanic.

if you think i'm a bad mood/faith user look what did they do with alkosh set who was at begin designed for dd , dd impossed to tank to use it for their famous meta min maxed and we got nothing to answer.

and tank are no longer a tank because you can have all defence of the world, 100 k hp, magama shell, a one shot still a one shot.

same for healer , who can't save a one shooted player is frustrating for him.

now blackwood/deadland:

since i seen the low population of tank (healer still at better place), i just run a new type of tank for dungeon called paywall.

just type in chat WTS tank for a dungeon run for x gold.

i using selfish tank build and run frost staff taunt and have a lot of support tank stuff on myself since curative drops.

when dd/healer begin to complain i just answer.

If you prefer i use S&B taunt for major+minor armor debuff paid me X gold

If you want i use X type of set paid me X gold.

DD can't be choosy because with a lot of tank who prefer premade groups or don't want play tank, the business of selling role is opened.

Alarde · December 2021

I used to play healer at every MMO, but after forcing myself to it in ESO, after a year i could not bear the frustration no more.

The game is made for DPS to shine. Sad, but true.

svendf · December 2021

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I started life as a healer, so I knew that leveling up a tank was going to be hard work. That is why both my tanks started off as DPS characters, and I converted them to tanks when I felt I had enough skill points unlocked.

But the reason there are no tanks in the game is that tanking is the hardest position to play in organized PVE. You can't simply read a guide, farm up the gear, and suddenly be a good tank. You need to know how to read mechanics, boss tells, AOE's on the floor (which hits can be absorbed, which hits are instant death, etc.) and the only way you learn that is by having experience playing as a tank. And in those same situations, the group is depending on you for survivability, meaning, if you suck or if your struggling, the entire group will feel it, and nothing can really cover that up for you, so there is definitely a lot of pressure on the tank.

Additionally, boss fight mechanics, minions, etc. cause chaos which the tank is usually charged with curbing (by chaining/rooting/taunting minions), so a tank really needs to be able to manage chaos.

The demands on the other roles pale in comparison IMO. Healer just has to heal and maintain uptime on buffs/debuffs which is easy once you've gotten into the rythem of doing so. DPS? Once you've mastered your rotation and mastered "don't stand in stupid", your set.

That is why there's so few tanks, IMO. Not the difficulty in leveling them, but the pressure that is actually placed on the tank. Its why real (good!) tanks are rockstars!

You forgot to mention an additional problem, which is. Going into a dungeon, you will be grouped with people, who just run off. In alot of runs a player leveling a tank will never get the chance to tank anything. Who in their right mind will go into a dungeon just to be screwed over ?

What you are talking about do exsist for sure. That said, when player´s get a chance to feel included, they will learn and have fun. The tank role isn´t for everybody, sure. One thing is sure. There are alot more player´s out there, who would role out a tank, you even could imagine.

If this discussion is meant to be a game changer the attitude to wards tanks have to change and it can´t be more true talking player´s leveling a tank.

Tanking and healing are important in all group content. The player role out a tank, the player starts to learn in overland. The first dungeon unlocks the learning process continue, right into to her/his first trial and so forth.

Is it so hard to understand ? I vent into a normal dungeon yesterday for the first timein a long time (I have three of them), just to check a random situation. I can tell you all - holy moly, what a tragedi produced by high level dd´s, who should know better.

Some are shooting their own fot, without knowing it.

It´s a tragedi, it really is.
Cheers

Raideen · December 2021

The reason people do not tank (and this is industry wide in video games) is because Tanking requires a higher level of responsibility than healing or DPS.

Being a tank means understanding the fight. Understanding the fight from a tanks perspective often means countless hours of watching videos and studying encounters. People would rather be IN GAME having fun, than tabbed out and watching videos.

This is what it all comes down to, people simply do not want to take on the responsibility required to be a tank. In fact from my observations, the simpler the combat encounters, the more likely someone is willing to tank (where you don't need to tab out to read the encounter), the more complex the combat encounters the less likely.

ESO has its own problems with tanking that reach beyond the core reason why people do not like to play tanks, some of that being a convoluted gear system, managing multiple resources more so than DPS or healers need to, for many a lack of an AOE taunt and for me personally I think tanks in ESO look wimpy. They are not stout, burly walls of steel.

Tieberion · December 2021

I just spam my taunts and occasional shield bash on the boss and all adds to keep them rounded up and don't mind tanking all day, as long as you don't expect me to dps as my build is health/heavy armor.