New Zone needs seizure warning

Dolphinsgal

Please no more zones like this one, with all the flashing, blinking lights that move, stationary ones are hard enough but this is overkill. The zone can trigger seizures and migraines at the very least, and eso does not have a seizure warning anywhere I've seen.

Nanfoodle

Be honest, have had one playing the new zone?

Ratzkifal

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Be honest, have had one playing the new zone?

People have been complaining about thunderstorms and scrying-flashes of light already due to photosensitivity or epilepsy and the Deadlands have a place with constant lightning, so whether or not OP had a seizure really does not matter. Also do we really need for wait for one to happen first before something is done about it?

Personally I don't think putting a warning label anywhere other than the purchase window is necessary, but an accessibility option that turns down/off bright flashes of light should be a thing. That helps people who don't want to hurt their eyes while playing all night too - there is a reason the dark theme is so popular for many websites.

A colourblind mode would be appreciated too, but the worst issues there have already been fixed now that we can adjust enemy and allied AOE colour.

Dolphinsgal

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Be honest, have had one playing the new zone?

Honestly it's none of your business, but yes I have which also triggered a migraine.

Rumancek

Good to know I'm colorblind and a lot of bosses that are surrounded by white/blue flashy things, or boss fights that take place in snowy areas, are a nightmare. Recent medication changes have put me more at risk for vertigo, nausea, photosensitivity and seizures. Was combatting it by wearing SeaBands while gaming, taking more frequent breaks to rest my eyes and also upping seizure meds (via Dr), but damn, previews I've seen of the zone so far and hearing people talk about it - think I'll avoid for now.

katanagirl1

This zone is so dark I can’t see anything.

I have to constantly look at my map to make sure I am still on the road.

spartaxoxo

@ZOS_Kevin

ApoAlaia

Personally I would prefer this as an accessibility option (the ability to turn off game features that can be conducive to harm or discomfort).

However if is not feasible to have it as a 'toggle' then as far as I'm concerned please remove them. My immersion and visual pleasure cannot come at the expense of someone else's health.

Coatmagic

What annoys me is this is not a new request.

There are many posts going back to start about flashy lights, overly bright spell effects etc. and requests for toggles (like other games have).

Alas, nothing can be done about it due to the spag-bowl-code, yet still they keep ADDING new and more obnoxious effects that they KNOW cannot be dealt with.

I really don't get it.

quadraxis666

This, like every videogame since the 90s has epilepsy warnings right in the small print. If you know you're at risk of seizures why are you playing videogames?

Do it as an accessibility option but don't remove things to accommodate a handful of people.

hafgood

quadraxis666 wrote: »

This, like every videogame since the 90s has epilepsy warnings right in the small print. If you know you're at risk of seizures why are you playing videogames?

Do it as an accessibility option but don't remove things to accommodate a handful of people.

So because some can have seizures they shouldn't play video games? Whatever happened to inclusively?????

I played the Deadlands last night, I don't suffer seizures or migraines but last night ended up with a headache, coincidence? Maybe

VaranisArano

If we cannot get an accessibility option due to coding, then perhaps it would be nice if the Art Team and those responsible for visual effect design took a refresher course in how to design effects that aren't going to cause migraines.

Between the Cyrodiil thunderstorms, the Scrying mini game, and now Deadlands, there seems to be a pattern of effects that look cool but cause problems.

And if there is no way to remove the effects via an accessibility option, then perhaps it is the responsibility of the designers to learn how to design future effects that won't negatively impact their players.

Like - Scrying didn't need those white flashes. A little bit of knowledge might've guided them towards choosing a less jarring transition.

Adremal

https://www.zenimax.com/en/legal/terms-of-service

PHOTOSENSITIVITY WARNING. A very small percentage of individuals may experience epileptic seizures or blackouts when exposed to certain visual images, including without limitation light patterns or flashing lights. Exposure to certain patterns or backgrounds on a computer, television or other screen, or while playing video games, may induce epileptic seizures or blackouts in these individuals. These conditions may induce previously undetected epileptic symptoms, blackouts, or seizures in persons who have no history of prior seizures or epilepsy. If You, anyone in Your family, or anyone in Your household, have an epileptic condition, have had seizures of any kind, or seizure symptoms, consult a doctor prior to using the Services or playing any Game. If You experience any of the following symptoms while playing any Game, immediately discontinue use and consult Your physician before resuming play : dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, jerking or shaking of arms or legs, loss of awareness, disorientation, confusion, any involuntary movement, or convulsions.

quadraxis666

hafgood wrote: »

So because some can have seizures they shouldn't play video games? Whatever happened to inclusively?????

Some can have fatal run-ins with freight trains so they shouldn't play on train tracks.
It's not being non-inclusive, its intentionally putting one's self in harm's way despite the dangers.

And what about inclusivity for the majority who don't suffer from seizures? They should have things taken away?

Accessibility option. Nobody loses. Everybody wins.

hafgood

quadraxis666 wrote: »

It's not being non-inclusive, its intentionally putting one's self in harm's way despite the dangers.

And what about inclusivity for the majority who don't suffer from seizures? They should have things taken away?

It's very much about inclusivity.

And if there is an accessibility option what are you losing exactly?

Fennwitty

This game has too many flashing effects generally, and I agree it does seem like each time they intentionally add more.

Maybe it's covering up flaws in performance or graphics but it's annoying.

I have no photosensitivity or other issue -- I'd just like to be able to see what's going on in the game.

Is it even physically possible to do a trial without displaying enemy health bars? Just clouds of flashing lights and other special effects carpeting the whole room.

whitecrow

If you're playing a game that takes place in an outdoor environment, you've got to expect a lightning storm now and then.
If it can be made a user setting then fine, but please don't nerf the lightning for everyone. Personally, I love it, as I do in real life.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi @Dolphinsgal. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We are passing on your experience to the Dev team to see what can be done on the accessibility front.

As @Adremal noted, we do have a photosensitive warning outlined in the Terms of Service. That has been outlined below just as a reference point. But we will take player feedback here to the dev team about the visibility of the warning and how it could be improved.

PHOTOSENSITIVITY WARNING. A very small percentage of individuals may experience epileptic seizures or blackouts when exposed to certain visual images, including without limitation light patterns or flashing lights. Exposure to certain patterns or backgrounds on a computer, television or other screen, or while playing video games, may induce epileptic seizures or blackouts in these individuals. These conditions may induce previously undetected epileptic symptoms, blackouts, or seizures in persons who have no history of prior seizures or epilepsy. If You, anyone in Your family, or anyone in Your household, have an epileptic condition, have had seizures of any kind, or seizure symptoms, consult a doctor prior to using the Services or playing any Game. If You experience any of the following symptoms while playing any Game, immediately discontinue use and consult Your physician before resuming play : dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, jerking or shaking of arms or legs, loss of awareness, disorientation, confusion, any involuntary movement, or convulsions.

Thanks all and appreciate the feedback.

Amottica

The game itself should have such a warning at login. There are flashes in many areas of the game.

quadraxis666

hafgood wrote: »

quadraxis666 wrote: »

It's not being non-inclusive, its intentionally putting one's self in harm's way despite the dangers.

And what about inclusivity for the majority who don't suffer from seizures? They should have things taken away?

It's very much about inclusivity.

And if there is an accessibility option what are you losing exactly?

What? You literally didnt read the post in full did you? If theres an accessibility option, nobody loses, everybody wins. Everyone is included and it's a super happy rainbow candy fun time love world for everyone.

hafgood

Yes, yes I read your whole response. You suggested people shouldn't play the game because it can harm them, like playing on the train tracks.

You don't want the game affected because you are not affected and have dismissed those that do as a handful of people.

We have no idea how many are photosensitive or have other issues being set off by the current zone, I suspect rather more than a handful.

At least we can agree it needs looking at and the game made more accessible but your response of its like playing on train tracks is not very inclusive at all.

Just saying.

VaranisArano

Amottica wrote: »

The game itself should have such a warning at login. There are flashes in many areas of the game.

Might not be a bad idea to have such a warning in the Scrying minigame. Work it into the training quest that Gabrielle Benele does at the Antiqutarian's Guild the first time you do it.

"Hey, Vestige, Scrying has white flashes of light. Might want to close your eyes, look away, or whatever you deem necessary."

I mean, you do a lot of Scrying to level Antiquities. And unlike weather effects, it's absolutely something that the player can avoid or prepare themselves for if they know it's coming.

Adremal

I think a lot of the points have been missed.

hafgood wrote: »

quadraxis666 wrote: »

It's not being non-inclusive, its intentionally putting one's self in harm's way despite the dangers.

And what about inclusivity for the majority who don't suffer from seizures? They should have things taken away?

It's very much about inclusivity.

And if there is an accessibility option what are you losing exactly?

You're both missing the point because anyone can experience seizures, regardless of them having photosensitive epilepsy (which can be diagnosed reliably) or epilepsy at all. Non-epileptic seizures are also thing regardless of trigger. Arguably, those with a diagnosis are less at risk because they should be taking anti-epileptic medications and should be instructed on trigger avoidance. The photosensitivity warning is merely a legal thing companies must do, kind of like food companies when they label stuff as "processes in a plant that also processes nuts, shrimps" and other possible allergens. Same thing: useful to those who know are already allergic to something, but not useful to people who don't know they could have allergic reaction (a lesser known fact is that you can literally become allergic to something you've always consumed/came in contact with overnight).
Inclusivity has nothing to do with it because everyone is included.

Dolphinsgal

@ZOS_Kevin Thank you for this I appreciate it and I know others will as well. I really think the photosensitive warning needs to be more visible especially with more and more bright and flashing lights being added all the time. An option to turn them down would be awesome.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi @Dolphinsgal. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We are passing on your experience to the Dev team to see what can be done on the accessibility front.

As @Adremal noted, we do have a photosensitive warning outlined in the Terms of Service. That has been outlined below just as a reference point. But we will take player feedback here to the dev team about the visibility of the warning and how it could be improved.

PHOTOSENSITIVITY WARNING. A very small percentage of individuals may experience epileptic seizures or blackouts when exposed to certain visual images, including without limitation light patterns or flashing lights. Exposure to certain patterns or backgrounds on a computer, television or other screen, or while playing video games, may induce epileptic seizures or blackouts in these individuals. These conditions may induce previously undetected epileptic symptoms, blackouts, or seizures in persons who have no history of prior seizures or epilepsy. If You, anyone in Your family, or anyone in Your household, have an epileptic condition, have had seizures of any kind, or seizure symptoms, consult a doctor prior to using the Services or playing any Game. If You experience any of the following symptoms while playing any Game, immediately discontinue use and consult Your physician before resuming play : dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, jerking or shaking of arms or legs, loss of awareness, disorientation, confusion, any involuntary movement, or convulsions.

Thanks all and appreciate the feedback.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Out of curiousity, do you think the new zone is worse in that regard than what we already had ingame?
Luckily I don't have an issue with it, so I can't really judge it. But I would have guessed that people spamming apex mount animations, flag fights in pvp and a number of bosses like dsa stage 7 would be way worse for people who are sensitive to flashing bright light.

Serenez

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi @Dolphinsgal. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We are passing on your experience to the Dev team to see what can be done on the accessibility front.

As @Adremal noted, we do have a photosensitive warning outlined in the Terms of Service. That has been outlined below just as a reference point. But we will take player feedback here to the dev team about the visibility of the warning and how it could be improved.

PHOTOSENSITIVITY WARNING. A very small percentage of individuals may experience epileptic seizures or blackouts when exposed to certain visual images, including without limitation light patterns or flashing lights. Exposure to certain patterns or backgrounds on a computer, television or other screen, or while playing video games, may induce epileptic seizures or blackouts in these individuals. These conditions may induce previously undetected epileptic symptoms, blackouts, or seizures in persons who have no history of prior seizures or epilepsy. If You, anyone in Your family, or anyone in Your household, have an epileptic condition, have had seizures of any kind, or seizure symptoms, consult a doctor prior to using the Services or playing any Game. If You experience any of the following symptoms while playing any Game, immediately discontinue use and consult Your physician before resuming play : dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, jerking or shaking of arms or legs, loss of awareness, disorientation, confusion, any involuntary movement, or convulsions.

Thanks all and appreciate the feedback.

Thank you @ZOS_Kevin for responding to this thread as this issue has been brought up a few times on the forum before. Adding an accessibility feature in the menu will allow everyone to adjust the settings to their own personal preferences without having to reset their monitor settings or settings on their computer. Some people who have visual/neurological issues 'may' have their computer settings or monitor settings adjusted for them by an Occupational Therapist so having an accessibility feature specific to the graphics for ESO will not interfere with their entire set up. I might suggest having the Developers consult experts in the field of visual conditions, neurological conditions such as migraines, seizures, post concussive disorders etc to see what types of accessibility features may minimize symptoms the best.

I would also suggest having a section on the website where players can submit accessibility requests in private, so they are not subject to community debate on their medical conditions and whether or not it should be accommodated. That way each request can be accessed in private as to whether or not it would cause undue hardship to the company, while maintaining the players dignity and respect which is part of the Human Rights accommodation request process.

Thank you again for addressing this issue.

Prof_Bawbag

Yeah, i suffer from migraines with auras that are triggered by lights. I stepped foot in the new dlc for 5mins last night and won't be back. I didn't get a migraine, but I knew had i pushed on it would have happened sooner or later.

[snip]

An off/on toggle would be absolutely fine. That way folk still get to play the game as it was intended. No one loses. After all, those who sub all put the same money into the game and no one is more deserving than the next person. Options are nice and welcome.

[edited for flaming]

Prof_Bawbag

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Out of curiousity, do you think the new zone is worse in that regard than what we already had ingame?
Luckily I don't have an issue with it, so I can't really judge it. But I would have guessed that people spamming apex mount animations, flag fights in pvp and a number of bosses like dsa stage 7 would be way worse for people who are sensitive to flashing bright light.

The only thing that bothers me is the sorc streak skill. Never rolled a sorc because of that. But the flash and what seems like screen shake is brutal. If i'm in cyrodiil or a dungeon and folk are using that, I'll let them disappear into the horizon or will leave the dungeon. Only ever left 2 dungeons in my entire time playing this game because someone was spamming streak. So it's not a common occurrence at all in dungeons. Cyrodiil, I encounter it a lot. But my issue is migraines, not seizures.

Varana

There is an addon that tries to alleviate the problem a bit by having an overlay added:
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2467-EyeStrain.html#info
Might help with some issues.

SilverBride

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As @Adremal noted, we do have a photosensitive warning outlined in the Terms of Service. That has been outlined below just as a reference point. But we will take player feedback here to the dev team about the visibility of the warning and how it could be improved.

Having a warning is one thing, but continuing to expose players to something that has no redeeming purpose and causes physical pain to many is something I can't wrap my head around.

I'm not referring to normal spell lights and animations, but rather the full screen bright flashes of light that happen in a lot of story fights when we beat the boss. It even happened in the Prologue to the Reach I believe it was, that every time we opened a chest that was a quest objective we were blasted with this blinding white light.

It may be a transitioning thing but why can't it fade to black like when we put pieces in the Vardenfall map instead of a bright flash?

These bright flashes even happen when scrying. Why?

There is no good reason to continue something that causes this many players so much discomfort.

wolfie1.0.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi @Dolphinsgal. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We are passing on your experience to the Dev team to see what can be done on the accessibility front.

As @Adremal noted, we do have a photosensitive warning outlined in the Terms of Service. That has been outlined below just as a reference point. But we will take player feedback here to the dev team about the visibility of the warning and how it could be improved.

PHOTOSENSITIVITY WARNING. A very small percentage of individuals may experience epileptic seizures or blackouts when exposed to certain visual images, including without limitation light patterns or flashing lights. Exposure to certain patterns or backgrounds on a computer, television or other screen, or while playing video games, may induce epileptic seizures or blackouts in these individuals. These conditions may induce previously undetected epileptic symptoms, blackouts, or seizures in persons who have no history of prior seizures or epilepsy. If You, anyone in Your family, or anyone in Your household, have an epileptic condition, have had seizures of any kind, or seizure symptoms, consult a doctor prior to using the Services or playing any Game. If You experience any of the following symptoms while playing any Game, immediately discontinue use and consult Your physician before resuming play : dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, jerking or shaking of arms or legs, loss of awareness, disorientation, confusion, any involuntary movement, or convulsions.

Thanks all and appreciate the feedback.

@ZOS_Kevin when giving feedback please ask them to provide true and native colorblind modes. Thank you.