Include Furniture (and other) recipes in treasure chests/safeboxes/thieves troves please!

katanagirl1

Ravensilver wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Agreed. I'd rather farm gear than wax. It's really a bit of a joke and the prices are so insane now it almost makes it not worth it to buy new homes knowing that decorating them is a pain in the bum.

Unfortunately, the same thing is happening to furniture recipes. With them being locked (more or less) behind stealing, the prices for even a 'normal' purple is in the 6 digits and up...

There are no furniture plans locked behind stealing. The loot tables for owned containers have fewer chances for plans than the unowned containers.

The only thing locked behind stealing are the house motifs for Vvardenfell - Hlaalu, Telvanni, and Redoran.

Ravensilver

katanagirl1 wrote: »

There are no furniture plans locked behind stealing. The loot tables for owned containers have fewer chances for plans than the unowned containers.

The only thing locked behind stealing are the house motifs for Vvardenfell - Hlaalu, Telvanni, and Redoran.

Well, it certainly feels like it. I'm in a 500 member housing guild and except for the ones that drop by the endboss in the Oblivion portals (very rarely), all the other recipes have only been found through stealing by our members.

K9002

Raideen wrote: »

I don't know if my account is debuffed, I don't know if ZoS reduced drop rates, I don't know if all farming is shared with hidden cooldowns, but what I can say is the amount of effort put in and the rewards was....well, not even remotely satisfying. In fact, it was a huge turn off and made me stop playing for the evening.

I've had spells of bad luck that persisted for a week or two but your experience sounds absolutely horrible. Though I would say that spending many hours trying to farm any one specific item can drive people crazy.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

There are no furniture plans locked behind stealing.

There are a few exclusive to pickpocketing. Khajiit skooma bubbler, Breton throne, Wood Elf throne, common hourglass, at least 3 different Morrowind incense holders. Then there are not so strictly exclusive green plans from Murkmire and Clockwork City, and that's due to there being so few unowned containers. I know I pulled majority of my plans from owned trunks, wardrobes and backpacks. Looks like it will be the same with Fargrave now.

Ravensilver

K9002 wrote: »

[Snip]
I know I pulled majority of my plans from owned trunks, wardrobes and backpacks. Looks like it will be the same with Fargrave now.

It is just as bad in Blackwood. Whenever someone in the guild posts a Leyawiin recipe, especially a blue or purple one, and we ask 'where did you get it', the answer is alsmost exclusively: stealing.

I don't think that this is a good development choice from the devs' side. IMHO, players should have a fair chance at achieving content like furniture recipes, even if they *don't* steal/pickpocket/ and/or murder. It's not everyone's thing to do, some don't have the appropriate chapter and don't want to get it. Why should they be left out?
That is why I request that the recipes also be included at least in the regular overland treasure chests.

katanagirl1

I have found a few purple Leyawiin plans from unowned containers and none from justice containers, but I have farmed many more unowned containers.

You can just farm the justice containers, you don’t have to murder NPCs. It’s a lot faster and you are much less likely to get a bounty.

Kwoung

So, if a player decides to play as strictly a thief type, which is probably about as common as those who refuse to steal stuff at all... What would that character do for an income, other than cap out their daily fence/launder quota, if their main source of income was basically made readily available elsewhere to everyone? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but aren't those particular recipes and motif sets that are only available via thieving, pretty much their entire source of in-game income? Also, wouldn't that basically result in rendering an entire play style null and void, effectively removing that playstyle from the game?

Jaraal

ZOS has an easy answer: "Just relax, they'll be coming to writ voucher envelopes (someday)."

Ravensilver

Kwoung wrote: »

So, if a player decides to play as strictly a thief type, which is probably about as common as those who refuse to steal stuff at all... What would that character do for an income, other than cap out their daily fence/launder quota, if their main source of income was basically made readily available elsewhere to everyone? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but aren't those particular recipes and motif sets that are only available via thieving, pretty much their entire source of in-game income? Also, wouldn't that basically result in rendering an entire play style null and void, effectively removing that playstyle from the game?

Jaraal wrote: »

ZOS has an easy answer: "Just relax, they'll be coming to writ voucher envelopes (someday)."

Kwoung

Ravensilver wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

So, if a player decides to play as strictly a thief type, which is probably about as common as those who refuse to steal stuff at all... What would that character do for an income, other than cap out their daily fence/launder quota, if their main source of income was basically made readily available elsewhere to everyone? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but aren't those particular recipes and motif sets that are only available via thieving, pretty much their entire source of in-game income? Also, wouldn't that basically result in rendering an entire play style null and void, effectively removing that playstyle from the game?

Jaraal wrote: »

ZOS has an easy answer: "Just relax, they'll be coming to writ voucher envelopes (someday)."

Well, I could be wrong, but I took his "ZOS Answer" as tongue in cheek, not something they actually ever said, but feel free to point me to that quote if it wasn't. Also, the fact they haven't done it, is probably for the reason I stated. Do they really want to kill off an entire playstyle, niche or not as it may be? Keep in mind they have released 2 entire DLC's based around crime. It's a niche playstyle with extremely limited options on how to earn a living in game, as are many other playstyles. I know folks that get by in game farming dailies for motifs, should we simply add all those motifs to treasure chests and call it a day on those folks as well?

Pretty much everything in this game requires you participate in numerous different types of play if you wish to earn it yourself. Or... pay the guy who did engage with that content to earn it, whatever he is asking. At some point you have to just look in the mirror and say, do I really want to pay 1.5 million for that recipe, or maybe I should consider just going out to try and get it myself.

Ravensilver

Kwoung wrote: »

Pretty much everything in this game requires you participate in numerous different types of play if you wish to earn it yourself. Or... pay the guy who did engage with that content to earn it, whatever he is asking. At some point you have to just look in the mirror and say, do I really want to pay 1.5 million for that recipe, or maybe I should consider just going out to try and get it myself.

Indeed. I do try to 'go out and get it myself'. But even as recently as Summerset you had good chances to find purple and blue recipes in unowned containers (Direnni Acropolis, Shimmerene Monastery and Traitor's Vault anyone?).
Or a chance for a nice recipe from an evening of farming Rulanyil's Fall.

With Elsweyr, we still had a lot of unowned containers (I love Moonlit Cove), but the stealing already started to creep in.

But with the Greymoor chapter (until they got added to the daily reward containers), you had almost no chance at a recipe from an unowned container.

And now, with the Blackwood chapter, furnishing recipes seem to have disappeared almost completely from the open (unowned) world.

So there has been a slow shift of placing recipes from open, unowned containers in the open world, to stashing them in owned containers and significantly reducing containers out in the open. Deadlands has almost nothing. False Martyr's is completely empty (except for some barrel and baskets - so, basically, foodstuff) and Brandfire Reformatory has a few trunks. There is no delve or public dungeon where you can run through and do a a bit of container farming.

If for you thieving is your only source of income, then you must have started recently, because before Greymoor, there were a lot of opportunities to pick up money making recipes from the environment...

Kwoung

Ravensilver wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Pretty much everything in this game requires you participate in numerous different types of play if you wish to earn it yourself. Or... pay the guy who did engage with that content to earn it, whatever he is asking. At some point you have to just look in the mirror and say, do I really want to pay 1.5 million for that recipe, or maybe I should consider just going out to try and get it myself.

Indeed. I do try to 'go out and get it myself'. But even as recently as Summerset you had good chances to find purple and blue recipes in unowned containers (Direnni Acropolis, Shimmerene Monastery and Traitor's Vault anyone?).
Or a chance for a nice recipe from an evening of farming Rulanyil's Fall.

With Elsweyr, we still had a lot of unowned containers (I love Moonlit Cove), but the stealing already started to creep in.

But with the Greymoor chapter (until they got added to the daily reward containers), you had almost no chance at a recipe from an unowned container.

And now, with the Blackwood chapter, furnishing recipes seem to have disappeared almost completely from the open (unowned) world.

So there has been a slow shift of placing recipes from open, unowned containers in the open world, to stashing them in owned containers and significantly reducing containers out in the open. Deadlands has almost nothing. False Martyr's is completely empty (except for some barrel and baskets - so, basically, foodstuff) and Brandfire Reformatory has a few trunks. There is no delve or public dungeon where you can run through and do a a bit of container farming.

If for you thieving is your only source of income, then you must have started recently, because before Greymoor, there were a lot of opportunities to pick up money making recipes from the environment...

I believe that everything in ESO creeps one way or the other, then back again. They try very hard to balance the game in this way and I think do a pretty decent job of it, and keeping most playstyle viable. Have you considered that the market for the previous recipes & motifs that were crime specific, have kind of flattened, and a new source that hasn't dried up needed to be added to cater to those type of players?

Also very believable to see them move recipes and/or motifs to overland content, if no one wants to farm them with thieving anymore, they of course want them to remain available in game. Bottom line though is, any recipes & motifs available via overland and delve drops, become worthless in short order as they get farmed and flood the market. With few exceptions, the only ones that hold value are the ones gated behind a type of content, be it dailies, vet content, crime, PVP, etc... They can't just hand out everything, it would make the game very unfun take take away at least some of the motivation to engage in that content... which is a HUGE thing with ZOS (just look at their events), they want folks to try things they normally wouldn't, and hopefully end up enjoying many different type of content, as it keeps players around longer. The very last thing they want, is to make it so easy to get everything you desire, the game gets stale and you leave, they try to do the balancing act instead.

Ravensilver

It wouldn't take anything away from any content, if the recipes were *also* to be found in treasure chests. On the contrary, it would make treasure chest hunting more fun and we'd have more incentive to go look for them.

Jaraal

Ravensilver wrote: »

So there has been a slow shift of placing recipes from open, unowned containers in the open world, to stashing them in owned containers and significantly reducing containers out in the open. Deadlands has almost nothing. False Martyr's is completely empty (except for some barrel and baskets - so, basically, foodstuff) and Brandfire Reformatory has a few trunks. There is no delve or public dungeon where you can run through and do a a bit of container farming.

I don't think it's a conscious effort to push recipes towards stealing. I think it's just them being in a rush to push out content on a timeline and simply not taking the time to place more containers. They take more and more shortcuts every DLC/chapter, such as reusing assets more often vs creating new ones, chaining off more doors, stairs, and balconies so players can't enter unfinished areas, etc. I mean, we complained months ago about a bugged cabinet in the Leyawiin Inn that couldn't be looted, but they still haven't bothered to fix it. So don't expect them to go out of their way to add more containers.... especially in a DLC that they gave away for free and have no vested financial motivation to fix.

Ravensilver

Jaraal wrote: »

I don't think it's a conscious effort to push recipes towards stealing. I think it's just them being in a rush to push out content on a timeline and simply not taking the time to place more containers. They take more and more shortcuts every DLC/chapter, such as reusing assets more often vs creating new ones, chaining off more doors, stairs, and balconies so players can't enter unfinished areas, etc.

Yes, that's my impression, too. The areas are looking more and more empty and there are more invisible walls and chained off areas than ever before. It's a pity, really, because part of what I love so much about ESO is the exploration... I love to just climb every mountain, look behind every rock and visit every home (whether I steal there or not).

Still, instead of making Fargrave look like a furnishing dev's HDD threw up in it (don't misunderstand me... I *love* the Fargrave look!) they could have placed a good number of containers at least in the two delves... ;___;

Jaraal

After spending some time in Fargrave, it's crazy how many non-lootable urns there are in the city. And there's like, two nightstands. I even broke into a house that had nothing to steal but a safebox and a couple of sacks! Why even put a lock on the door? Also, I usually have great success stealing in the various Fighters and Mages guilds across Tamriel, but the ones in Fargrave have virtually nothing to steal. Very disappointing! But the worst thing of all is that none of the Daedra can be reset with the Blade of Woe. Therefore, most of the pickpocketing targets are perpetually empty. And it's silly, because non-Xivkyn Daedra can be killed with the BoW in other areas of the game.

It's like they went out of their way to make it hard to loot/steal in The Deadlands. No containers in delves, few in the city, and anti-pickpocketing mechanics in place. But there's a pile of cabinets in one small room with 20 players stumbling over each other to loot them. It's so dysfunctional that it's almost comical. Doesn't seem to be very well planned out as far as furnishing plan acquisition goes.

FlopsyPrince

Ravensilver wrote: »

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Uhh... you complain that these items are locked behind stealing, yet request they be added to Safeboxes & Thieves Troves. Umm... what?

S.

Hm... I was thinking of the Thieves Troves that I encounter in the open world. There is usually no one around to see you open them up. So I guess I don't see that as stealing.
I was thinking more of the 'let's rob people's houses, pickpocket and murder them' part...

Bastion thinks you should leaves those for the thieves to pickup!

katanagirl1

I agree that the number of unowned containers has been steadily going downward since Elsweyr (except for Nchuthnkarst) and that we need more.

You have to open so many just to get a chance of getting a furnishing plan, and it will probably be a green one you have already picked up 100 times already.

Lately I get discouraged because as soon as I get a blue plan in an instanced area all I get thereafter are white plans.

Now I wonder if those who say they get Leyawiin plans from stealing have some secret location that I do know of. I farmed Leyawiin for months getting only blues occasionally from justice containers.

Hotdog_23

Jaraal wrote: »

ZOS has an easy answer: "Just relax, they'll be coming to writ voucher envelopes (someday)."

If only they would add the new Curated RNG system to this also for plans we do not already know. Opened 15 the other day and found only 2 plans my main did not know.

Also is their any official word on where and how furniture plans drop for every zone?

Ravensilver

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I farmed Leyawiin for months getting only blues occasionally from justice containers.

What are justice containers? ^^;;;

KhajiitLivesMatter

Ravensilver wrote: »

In the last few expansions, it has become ever more difficult to aquire furniture recipes. More and more they have become locked behind stealing and pickpocketing.

This drives up prices to the point where less solvent players can no longer afford them.

Also, there are quite a few players that either don't want to engage in the criminal side of ESO, or don't feel comfortable with it, or have never bothered to build up the skill line, because it doesn't fit into their RPG. But at the same time, those players might be ardent housing and crafting fans (and if they're housing fans, then they are a *very* lovely source of RL cash for ZOS, because they use the CS a lot more than others...) and very much interested in finding those recipes.

So, my request is that recipes are randomly added to treasure chests/safeboxes/thieves troves. We already have the addition of maps to the various containers. Please put the recipes in there, too.

Thank you.

totaly agree just for other reasons

Ravensilver

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I agree that the number of unowned containers has been steadily going downward since Elsweyr (except for Nchuthnkarst) and that we need more.
You have to open so many just to get a chance of getting a furnishing plan, and it will probably be a green one you have already picked up 100 times already.
Lately I get discouraged because as soon as I get a blue plan in an instanced area all I get thereafter are white plans.

I totally agree.

I'm not sure whether it's a lack of time on the devs' side, or simply a lack of interest. But I also feel that the amount of unowned containers has shrunk considerably since Elsweyr.
And yes, instead of getting a variety of plans, I keep getting the same ones over and over.

I've reached the point where I just sell them to a merchant. It's not even worth putting them in the guild shop anymore. I mean... 9 x Diagram: Deadlans Wall Spikes in one evening? O.o
What the ... ? >.>

Jaraal

Ravensilver wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I agree that the number of unowned containers has been steadily going downward since Elsweyr (except for Nchuthnkarst) and that we need more.
You have to open so many just to get a chance of getting a furnishing plan, and it will probably be a green one you have already picked up 100 times already.
Lately I get discouraged because as soon as I get a blue plan in an instanced area all I get thereafter are white plans.

I totally agree.

I'm not sure whether it's a lack of time on the devs' side, or simply a lack of interest. But I also feel that the amount of unowned containers has shrunk considerably since Elsweyr.
And yes, instead of getting a variety of plans, I keep getting the same ones over and over.

I've reached the point where I just sell them to a merchant. It's not even worth putting them in the guild shop anymore. I mean... 9 x Diagram: Deadlans Wall Spikes in one evening? O.o
What the ... ? >.>

Agreed about getting the same plans much more frequently than others of the same quality. It can’t be a coincidence.

And it’s not a lack of time, but rather a conscious effort to minimize the amount of containers in the zone. The reason I say that is because someone has meticulously placed three panel wall dividers up against the walls where there are normally cabinets, dressers, and desks. It’s as if they knew they needed to fill the empty spaces with furniture, but went out of their way to place things (that look out of place, IMO) that aren’t containers and can’t be looted.

Ravensilver

Jaraal wrote: »

Agreed about getting the same plans much more frequently than others of the same quality. It can’t be a coincidence.

And it’s not a lack of time, but rather a conscious effort to minimize the amount of containers in the zone. The reason I say that is because someone has meticulously placed three panel wall dividers up against the walls where there are normally cabinets, dressers, and desks. It’s as if they knew they needed to fill the empty spaces with furniture, but went out of their way to place things (that look out of place, IMO) that aren’t containers and can’t be looted.

Oh! I was wondering about all the dividers all over the place... but now that you mention it, that sounds like a good explanation for them.

I also don't understand why I'm getting multiples of the same recipe *on the same evening*! During the week, if I'm doing the same content (=> wandering through the locked apartments in Fargrave), and I get several of the same in one week, ok. But in one evening? That *has* to be deliberate!

What I don't understand is, why? ZOS should know that housing (and the associated crafting) is one of the key features of ESO that pulls in a whole bunch of players that otherwise might not gravitate towards ESO.

So why make it so very, *very* frustrating and disheartening to get at recipes?

It's not like ZOS is taking a cut from the sales in the guild shops... >.> Or are they?

HalfDragoness

+1 to this!

Yeah I stopped looting chests and stuff a while ago because there's not a lot of useful stuff for me in them. However then I started running around with Mirri as my companion and with her there's a chance to find an extra treasure bag in the chest. The treasure bag does have the potential to contain furnishing recipes, and it is also affected by the Green champion point node that gives a small chance to find two furnishing blueprints instead of one. (I did get 2 blue blueprints from a regular chest because of Mirri) However the chances of this happening are so tiny, it's probably a 10-15% chance of a treasure chest having a bonus sack (with Mirri) and then the chances of the contents being a furnishing are like 10%, and the chance of that being double are 10%.

The other way of getting furnishing blueprints from areas is to do the master crafting writs and exchanging the tokens for the folios which contain random blueprints from specific areas. I don't mind doing those.

But I'd really like a higher chance of just finding blueprints in more locations. Or finding leads, not for the furnishing, but for the blueprint. And it feels like the amount of green blueprints I find is just too many... even to sell on, but the amount of blue blueprints is really low by comparisson.

Kwoung

I am sorry, but I don't get these threads. If this was to be done at all, where does it stop? Should trial gear drop in overland because I personally choose to not do trials, should I get vet arena weapons because I can't do vet arenas, dungeon sets, PVP rewards? Shall there just be a button that rewards whatever we ask for without having to partake in the content? Maybe ZOS should just put a 100 gold max price on trades, so everyone can afford to buy whatever they need? Seriously, where do you draw the line on making changes, just because someone chooses to both not partake in the content or simply earn enough gold to buy it?

spartaxoxo

Kwoung wrote: »

I am sorry, but I don't get these threads. If this was to be done at all, where does it stop? Should trial gear drop in overland because I personally choose to not do trials, should I get vet arena weapons because I can't do vet arenas, dungeon sets, PVP rewards? Shall there just be a button that rewards whatever we ask for without having to partake in the content? Maybe ZOS should just put a 100 gold max price on trades, so everyone can afford to buy whatever they need? Seriously, where do you draw the line on making changes, just because someone chooses to both not partake in the content or simply earn enough gold to buy it?

The furnishing plans are poorly sourced, and housing remains an activity where the grind is completely out of whack with the rest of the game. I don't think we need to worry about the slippery slope fallacy to fix a clear outlier and bring the demand of the player more in line with the rest of the game.

Kwoung

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

I am sorry, but I don't get these threads. If this was to be done at all, where does it stop? Should trial gear drop in overland because I personally choose to not do trials, should I get vet arena weapons because I can't do vet arenas, dungeon sets, PVP rewards? Shall there just be a button that rewards whatever we ask for without having to partake in the content? Maybe ZOS should just put a 100 gold max price on trades, so everyone can afford to buy whatever they need? Seriously, where do you draw the line on making changes, just because someone chooses to both not partake in the content or simply earn enough gold to buy it?

The furnishing plans are poorly sourced, and housing remains an activity where the grind is completely out of whack with the rest of the game. I don't think we need to worry about the slippery slope fallacy to fix a clear outlier and bring the demand of the player more in line with the rest of the game.

There is a good reason housing is and has been considered an end game activity for a very long time, it is because it costs a fortune in gold or forever in camping. IF someone wants the rare recipes, put in the time as all others before have done. It is not a fallacy, you are asking for end game rewards without earning them. My wife has played thousands of hours, she loves housing and collects recipes like crazy, both earning and buying them, sometimes they cost millions. Why should some fresh off the boat player have access to the same house items, that she has put so much effort and years into obtaining in order to make her houses unique? She literally leveled up thieves and dark brotherhood, simply so she could earn those rewards, then spent weeks in Vardenfell opening boxes, picking pockets, etc to get some thing she was after. What is stopping anyone from doing that... let me answer... Nothing.

HalfDragoness

Kwoung wrote: »

What is stopping anyone from doing that... let me answer... Nothing.

*Time

Kwoung

HalfDragoness wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

What is stopping anyone from doing that... let me answer... Nothing.

*Time

That is a choice. My wife works 12 hours a day (the 50 mile rush hour commute doesn't help), but finds the time, because it is something she enjoys doing. But that goes back to what I said, why should someone get the rewards that a player who has put the time in gets? It basically boils down to wanting something without having to work for it.

And if you mean food/drink recipes, the same goes. I put in days for the Coldavian War Torte recipe, and managed 3 of them, Used one, gave one to my wife and sold the third... I put in the time and a bit of research to figure out how/where they are likely to pop up... oh, and I had to run all over Cyrodiil to find them as well... another thing many players refuse to do or pay the millions for, but still feel they deserve to have the recipe.

Minyassa

Agreed. Recipes should be no different from gear, they are things that players need to enjoy the game and there should be places that players know to look for them that are more or less guaranteed within a certain range rather than being like winning a state lottery. They've already weighted gear drops in dungeons and trials, they should weight recipes by what the player already knows and give duplicates a lower chance with the RNG. Game already keeps track of what each character knows so they may as well use that. House decorating should not be endgame and only fully accessible by rich folks.