Overland Content Feedback Thread

Palosanto

jaws343 wrote: »

Any effort spent on difficulty for content that most players play once and then do no revisit is wasted effort. Time should be spent improving repeatable content, like the myriad PVP issues, or end game dungeons/trials. Not for content that players are just going to burn through anyways, at whatever difficulty is picked.

Overland content, for the most part, is meant to be story driven, not combat driven.

To add as well, there are no meaningful changes they could make that would satisfy the tiny group of players who even want a change. That tiny group is broken into smaller subsets who can't even agree on what it is they want:

Difficulty slider? Well what should that slider do, scale mob health, damage, resistances? Or should they have more mechanics?

Scaling Health and such? Well, how is beating on a damage sponge any more difficult? Oh, that mob lives for 2 extra seconds against your vet trial ready DPS. Good job, I guess.

Changing enemy mechanics? So you basically want them to remake the entire game, redoing all enemy mechanics to suit some intangible level of difficulty, for a tiny subset of players? Why would any company ever make a decision to do something like this? The cost alone would be insane, and for what, players to burn through the quests anyways and never return, or never even engage with it in the first place.

What about a debuff food? Well, you can already choose not to equip your best gear, or eat food, or whatever you want to depower your character. But no one wants to do that because it breaks their progression or something. Why would a debuff food be any different.

How about a separate instance for solo quests? Again, a tiny subset of players. For content that is done once and then never returned to. It works for dungeons and trials and arenas because those are repeatable areas.

And I'll repeat, dev time is better spent on fixing PVP issues and making better dungeons and trials. Time should be spent on content that actually offers repeatable engagement.

I'll also add, there is a reason that new dungeons get nerfs after a few patches. The level of player engagement in the vet versions gets low enough that Zos has to make it easier in order to encourage participation. That alone is telling enough.

Why do u speak in the name of others? Tiny player base? How do u know this? Have u been asking all active players from ESO about this topic? I don t understand how you did the math to come up to such a conclusion. If you just came up with this because u have 2,3 guildies that agree woth this all of other things you have said are invalid based on your judgement.

Related to this thread and thank you for making it, I think something should be done about it, like others say, I fall asleep questing and I die meanwhile so somehow this can be included in the difficulty part )
Now let s be serious, there is nothing less appealing than rushing in a delve or a public dungeon and melting everything in my way like mobs are some kind of flies.

How about specific armor sets for the zone you are. For example, one gets for the first time in Greymoor, without any gear on him, 1st quest on this zone is to aquire some random weak gear but strong enough to help u aquire better and better up untill the end, at the final boss u need to have completed a number of previous quests (can be daily also) in order to defeat this boss.
I mean I know how excited I have always been starting a new game, being weak and then progresivly evolving, getting new better gear and being able to kill the last bosses. It can be a start all over for each new zone, with the specific armor sets for each zone. Like I ve said, in Greymoor some armor set/s that gives u protection against vamp and also provides u with weaknesses (fire) against vamps. Same gear can be used for the trial, dungeon of the that zone but in order to kill the last boss, u need to kill the other side bosses to aquire the specific, unique gear in order to defeat the mama boss of that dungeon.

I know it s a lot to digest and many changes should be made but in time and with your proffesionals this can be achived. Of course this idea would make rnds troublesome, but I have an idea for this aswell, if i see interest in this thread I might share it.

Panachudo

Interesting topic. I would largely agree that the overland content is tailored to a diverse player skill level. As the player base increases in skill the content becomes easier. This can be said for dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials as well. Most games become easy over time due to the content being predictable and known. This phenomenon is not isolated to ESO.

I have oftentimes wondered what a veteran overland mode would bring to the table. A positive that stands out for me is that the increase in difficulty would promote questing in groups. A few members of our guild are looking to put progression groups together. With high level characters the overland content in its current form is far too easy. This removes an important layer to questing with friends. Their is no sense of achievement. Having to work hard to battle through quests is rewarding.

Would it divide players? Probably not. Selecting a veteran mode and simply loading into that instance wouldn’t really divide. The only thing that would divide players is if the mode offered considerably more reward. Keep that the same and it wouldn’t cause a problem. At the end of the day the rewards are sticker book items and frivolous amounts of gold.

The story is equally important. A solid story makes the difference. Tie that with difficult content and there is a challenge. Completing it is a sense of achievement. One thing I would consider is the amount of back and forth running between NPC’s. This can get a bit tedious. A fair bit of this can be removed or condensed.

I’d vote yes for a vet mode overland. 100%. Put a poll in game so everyone can voice their feedback. I’d bet it would favour it as well.

Arunei

NVNNN wrote: »

Veteran players have nothing to do in overland zones.
Having listened to NPCs explaining how a big a threat this upcoming quest challenge is, defeating a boss with a few skills is just anti-climactic.
All overland should be on the same level as craglorn and new content (chapters) should offer progressive challenge.
Alternatively, an toggleable option to scale the overland to grant higher challenge and higher rewards would please all categories of players. Don't want any trouble and want to just experience the story? Here you go - every mob is oneshot. You're a living human being who wants to have fun playing the game? Sure, buddy, here's Craglorn + for you.

I've been here since closed beta, and I'm perfectly fine with how overland is. Vet players have plenty to do, you can't speak for all of us to suit a narrative. All content SHOULD NOT be scaled to what any given player is capable of and thus thinks everyone else should be able to do as well.

You cannot have a toggle or slider that affects world difficulty. The game cannot make enemies both harder AND easier if there are people with different difficulty settings present. For example, a World Boss cannot have its Health and damage increased and its mechanics happen more frequently for someone with max difficulty, and at the same time have its Health and damage lowered and its mechanics happen less frequently for someone with minimum difficulty. And this WOULD happen, people with different difficulty settings would be doing the same content at the same time. The only way an optional slider would work is if it applied self debuffs of some kind.

It's also extremely rude to trivialize players who are happy with overland being like it is, or even struggle with it, by insinuating they aren't "living people", and putting down how they enjoy playing also isn't a good look.

NVNNN wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

So, a fair example of my alts goes something like this:

Gear: Mother's Sorrow/Julianos/Zaan/Ring of Pale Order (or Wild Hunt). All legendary.

Champion Points: thoroughly researched and tweaked.

Companion: Fully maximized and all purple gear that is well balanced.

Setup this way I can do overland content in a much-preferred non-stressful way. Delves and Public Dungeons are quite doable.

I have quit doing DLC dungeons altogether, and I'd never consider Trials or PvP. Those things are either too stressful or well beyond my capability or game expectations.

I am 80 years old, recovering from multiple strokes, severe tremor and rheumatoid arthritis. Obviously on the very low end of the spectrum. I just quit playing SWTOR because its 7.0 expansion screwed over people like me -- because a lot of min-max players in raid-level gear complained content was too easy. Don't want to be forced to quit this game AGAIN because players wearing end-game armor think overland content is too easy.

I don't want a single piece of content to be designed around a certain group of people. This is why we have varying difficulties (normal - veteran - veteran hardmode), so that people can decide how "stressful" they want their content to be. I think making the same commitment to the overland wouild benefit big time.

[snip] Although i do recognize that certain aspects should be adjusted around disabilities, but they should never be designed around.

[edited for baiting]

Ironically, this exact arguement can be made for not making overland content harder to be designed around the people wanting it. *shrug*

FlopsyPrince

WiseSky wrote: »

I think I figured it out

Make a Monster Helm

Cursed Oblivion Helm
1 item: Removes 666 Weapon and Spell Damage, Removes 6666 Penetration, Removes 3666 Armor, Removes 2666 Maximum Stamina, Removes 2666 Maximum Health... ETC

2 items: When you hit an enemy an Random Oblivion Overpowered Foe will be summoned attacking only you for X time

That is too simple. Too many won't support that!

Vulkunne

Palosanto wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Any effort spent on difficulty for content that most players play once and then do no revisit is wasted effort. Time should be spent improving repeatable content, like the myriad PVP issues, or end game dungeons/trials. Not for content that players are just going to burn through anyways, at whatever difficulty is picked.

Overland content, for the most part, is meant to be story driven, not combat driven.

To add as well, there are no meaningful changes they could make that would satisfy the tiny group of players who even want a change. That tiny group is broken into smaller subsets who can't even agree on what it is they want:

Difficulty slider? Well what should that slider do, scale mob health, damage, resistances? Or should they have more mechanics?

Scaling Health and such? Well, how is beating on a damage sponge any more difficult? Oh, that mob lives for 2 extra seconds against your vet trial ready DPS. Good job, I guess.

Changing enemy mechanics? So you basically want them to remake the entire game, redoing all enemy mechanics to suit some intangible level of difficulty, for a tiny subset of players? Why would any company ever make a decision to do something like this? The cost alone would be insane, and for what, players to burn through the quests anyways and never return, or never even engage with it in the first place.

What about a debuff food? Well, you can already choose not to equip your best gear, or eat food, or whatever you want to depower your character. But no one wants to do that because it breaks their progression or something. Why would a debuff food be any different.

How about a separate instance for solo quests? Again, a tiny subset of players. For content that is done once and then never returned to. It works for dungeons and trials and arenas because those are repeatable areas.

And I'll repeat, dev time is better spent on fixing PVP issues and making better dungeons and trials. Time should be spent on content that actually offers repeatable engagement.

I'll also add, there is a reason that new dungeons get nerfs after a few patches. The level of player engagement in the vet versions gets low enough that Zos has to make it easier in order to encourage participation. That alone is telling enough.

Why do u speak in the name of others? Tiny player base? How do u know this? Have u been asking all active players from ESO about this topic? I don t understand how you did the math to come up to such a conclusion. If you just came up with this because u have 2,3 guildies that agree woth this all of other things you have said are invalid based on your judgement.

Related to this thread and thank you for making it, I think something should be done about it, like others say, I fall asleep questing and I die meanwhile so somehow this can be included in the difficulty part )
Now let s be serious, there is nothing less appealing than rushing in a delve or a public dungeon and melting everything in my way like mobs are some kind of flies.

How about specific armor sets for the zone you are. For example, one gets for the first time in Greymoor, without any gear on him, 1st quest on this zone is to aquire some random weak gear but strong enough to help u aquire better and better up untill the end, at the final boss u need to have completed a number of previous quests (can be daily also) in order to defeat this boss.
I mean I know how excited I have always been starting a new game, being weak and then progresivly evolving, getting new better gear and being able to kill the last bosses. It can be a start all over for each new zone, with the specific armor sets for each zone. Like I ve said, in Greymoor some armor set/s that gives u protection against vamp and also provides u with weaknesses (fire) against vamps. Same gear can be used for the trial, dungeon of the that zone but in order to kill the last boss, u need to kill the other side bosses to aquire the specific, unique gear in order to defeat the mama boss of that dungeon.

I know it s a lot to digest and many changes should be made but in time and with your proffesionals this can be achived. Of course this idea would make rnds troublesome, but I have an idea for this aswell, if i see interest in this thread I might share it.

For the amount of people on here expressing an interest in additional vet content I wouldn't say its a Tiny player base. I've seen this same type of argument used in other places too but it almost always fails when put up to real scrutiny. If you think about it the sheer volume of players who grind tirelessly day and night to reach 160 really helps the argument in many ways because there's no one that I know of who likes to remain under at least lvl 30 for very long, especially compared to the masses who want access to veteran lvl and gear.

Sylvermynx

@Vulkunne - you'll probably laugh at me.... I have 7 CP 160 characters. I have 53 lower level alts. Guess what I play most?

Yeah, the 53 alts from level 10 to level 38....

Vulkunne

Arunei wrote: »

NVNNN wrote: »

Veteran players have nothing to do in overland zones.
Having listened to NPCs explaining how a big a threat this upcoming quest challenge is, defeating a boss with a few skills is just anti-climactic.
All overland should be on the same level as craglorn and new content (chapters) should offer progressive challenge.
Alternatively, an toggleable option to scale the overland to grant higher challenge and higher rewards would please all categories of players. Don't want any trouble and want to just experience the story? Here you go - every mob is oneshot. You're a living human being who wants to have fun playing the game? Sure, buddy, here's Craglorn + for you.

I've been here since closed beta, and I'm perfectly fine with how overland is. Vet players have plenty to do, you can't speak for all of us to suit a narrative. All content SHOULD NOT be scaled to what any given player is capable of and thus thinks everyone else should be able to do as well.

You cannot have a toggle or slider that affects world difficulty. The game cannot make enemies both harder AND easier if there are people with different difficulty settings present. For example, a World Boss cannot have its Health and damage increased and its mechanics happen more frequently for someone with max difficulty, and at the same time have its Health and damage lowered and its mechanics happen less frequently for someone with minimum difficulty. And this WOULD happen, people with different difficulty settings would be doing the same content at the same time. The only way an optional slider would work is if it applied self debuffs of some kind.

It's also extremely rude to trivialize players who are happy with overland being like it is, or even struggle with it, by insinuating they aren't "living people", and putting down how they enjoy playing also isn't a good look.

NVNNN wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

So, a fair example of my alts goes something like this:

Gear: Mother's Sorrow/Julianos/Zaan/Ring of Pale Order (or Wild Hunt). All legendary.

Champion Points: thoroughly researched and tweaked.

Companion: Fully maximized and all purple gear that is well balanced.

Setup this way I can do overland content in a much-preferred non-stressful way. Delves and Public Dungeons are quite doable.

I have quit doing DLC dungeons altogether, and I'd never consider Trials or PvP. Those things are either too stressful or well beyond my capability or game expectations.

I am 80 years old, recovering from multiple strokes, severe tremor and rheumatoid arthritis. Obviously on the very low end of the spectrum. I just quit playing SWTOR because its 7.0 expansion screwed over people like me -- because a lot of min-max players in raid-level gear complained content was too easy. Don't want to be forced to quit this game AGAIN because players wearing end-game armor think overland content is too easy.

I don't want a single piece of content to be designed around a certain group of people. This is why we have varying difficulties (normal - veteran - veteran hardmode), so that people can decide how "stressful" they want their content to be. I think making the same commitment to the overland wouild benefit big time.

[snip] Although i do recognize that certain aspects should be adjusted around disabilities, but they should never be designed around.

[edited for baiting]

Ironically, this exact arguement can be made for not making overland content harder to be designed around the people wanting it. *shrug*

So looking at this post, there's quite a bit of really strong language here regarding what cannot, should not, be done.

The thing is this, its really the Devs who determines what cannot or should not be done. Respect. They know best and I'm fine with that. However, in actuality there's alot that could be done and other things that even though they should not be done happen regardless hah.

Its all a matter of perspective and how we look at problem solving. I mean, I realize ESO is kind of an older game so I don't think anyone is looking for anything too spectacular or earth shattering that the Devs could never finish doing at the expense of the game itself. However, someone with the right attitude and approach concerning this issue could possibly find some middle ground as well as a few ideas on how to make necessary adjustments.

Because we can't pretend there is no problem. If it can't be fixed then it can be fixed however it seems to me that overland is missing difficulty progression okay, as well as a number of other issues like faction behaviours. So you see, it isn't just one issue people are pushing to resolve there are other problems, somewhat minor, yet still noticeable that are going on as well.

And that's why its important for everyone to have a voice in this so the folks who enjoy difficulty the way it is can let the Devs know they want it to stay that way and yet, for those of who have noticed issues as well as features commonly found in other games missing and want not just a challenge but difficulty that matches how far the character has grown, we need to be heard as well to help the Devs realize there are further problems needing to be solved to, at their leisure.

Vulkunne

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Vulkunne - you'll probably laugh at me.... I have 7 CP 160 characters. I have 53 lower level alts. Guess what I play most?

Yeah, the 53 alts from level 10 to level 38....

No not at all. You probably enjoy the story and just traveling around Tamriel and that's fine. Nothing against that at all.

I did this too for awhile with the starter areas, especially Auridon and Daggerfall mainly. But eventually I just went ahead and leveled because everything seemed to easy for me like something with the game was left unfinished.

Besides, I ended up quickly getting involved in PvP and well ... lvl 10 Altmer Sorc is probably the wrong character to send into Cyrodiil for your first time there hah.

Arunei

Vulkunne wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

NVNNN wrote: »

Veteran players have nothing to do in overland zones.
Having listened to NPCs explaining how a big a threat this upcoming quest challenge is, defeating a boss with a few skills is just anti-climactic.
All overland should be on the same level as craglorn and new content (chapters) should offer progressive challenge.
Alternatively, an toggleable option to scale the overland to grant higher challenge and higher rewards would please all categories of players. Don't want any trouble and want to just experience the story? Here you go - every mob is oneshot. You're a living human being who wants to have fun playing the game? Sure, buddy, here's Craglorn + for you.

I've been here since closed beta, and I'm perfectly fine with how overland is. Vet players have plenty to do, you can't speak for all of us to suit a narrative. All content SHOULD NOT be scaled to what any given player is capable of and thus thinks everyone else should be able to do as well.

You cannot have a toggle or slider that affects world difficulty. The game cannot make enemies both harder AND easier if there are people with different difficulty settings present. For example, a World Boss cannot have its Health and damage increased and its mechanics happen more frequently for someone with max difficulty, and at the same time have its Health and damage lowered and its mechanics happen less frequently for someone with minimum difficulty. And this WOULD happen, people with different difficulty settings would be doing the same content at the same time. The only way an optional slider would work is if it applied self debuffs of some kind.

It's also extremely rude to trivialize players who are happy with overland being like it is, or even struggle with it, by insinuating they aren't "living people", and putting down how they enjoy playing also isn't a good look.

NVNNN wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

So, a fair example of my alts goes something like this:

Gear: Mother's Sorrow/Julianos/Zaan/Ring of Pale Order (or Wild Hunt). All legendary.

Champion Points: thoroughly researched and tweaked.

Companion: Fully maximized and all purple gear that is well balanced.

Setup this way I can do overland content in a much-preferred non-stressful way. Delves and Public Dungeons are quite doable.

I have quit doing DLC dungeons altogether, and I'd never consider Trials or PvP. Those things are either too stressful or well beyond my capability or game expectations.

I am 80 years old, recovering from multiple strokes, severe tremor and rheumatoid arthritis. Obviously on the very low end of the spectrum. I just quit playing SWTOR because its 7.0 expansion screwed over people like me -- because a lot of min-max players in raid-level gear complained content was too easy. Don't want to be forced to quit this game AGAIN because players wearing end-game armor think overland content is too easy.

I don't want a single piece of content to be designed around a certain group of people. This is why we have varying difficulties (normal - veteran - veteran hardmode), so that people can decide how "stressful" they want their content to be. I think making the same commitment to the overland wouild benefit big time.

[snip] Although i do recognize that certain aspects should be adjusted around disabilities, but they should never be designed around.

[edited for baiting]

Ironically, this exact arguement can be made for not making overland content harder to be designed around the people wanting it. *shrug*

So looking at this post, there's quite a bit of really strong language here regarding what cannot, should not, be done.

The thing is this, its really the Devs who determines what cannot or should not be done. Respect. They know best and I'm fine with that. However, in actuality there's alot that could be done and other things that even though they should not be done happen regardless hah.

Its all a matter of perspective and how we look at problem solving. I mean, I realize ESO is kind of an older game so I don't think anyone is looking for anything too spectacular or earth shattering that the Devs could never finish doing at the expense of the game itself. However, someone with the right attitude and approach concerning this issue could possibly find some middle ground as well as a few ideas on how to make necessary adjustments.

Because we can't pretend there is no problem. If it can't be fixed then it can be fixed however it seems to me that overland is missing difficulty progression okay, as well as a number of other issues like faction behaviours. So you see, it isn't just one issue people are pushing to resolve there are other problems, somewhat minor, yet still noticeable that are going on as well.

And that's why its important for everyone to have a voice in this so the folks who enjoy difficulty the way it is can let the Devs know they want it to stay that way and yet, for those of who have noticed issues as well as features commonly found in other games missing and want not just a challenge but difficulty that matches how far the character has grown, we need to be heard as well to help the Devs realize there are further problems needing to be solved to, at their leisure.

I have no problem with the devs implementing some way for players to have optional harder difficulty. But you cannot code the same enemies to be both harder AND easier at the same time to account for people using those optional...well, options, if they were to affect the world. If one person has the game set to Easy and another person has the game set to Hard, which of those does it apply? The game can't be asked to do both, you can't lower a boss' damage and increase it at the same time against the same group of mixed players. The optional slider or toggle would have to apply to each character, either buffing or debuffing them in some way depending on their setting. Yet many people seem to be against debuffs to their characters, even official ones that wouldn't require them to give up their gear and everything.

The thing I am 100% against is other people speaking for all veteran players like we all want or need harder overland, just to suit their narrative. I DON'T want harder overland, not because I have a hard time with it now but just because for me it's not an issue. I also don't want getting from point A to point B to be a hassle if every trash mob takes longer to kill. I also am against people who want harder overland imposed on everyone by making the game itself harder. [snip]

At the end of the day, overland is meant to deliver the bulk of ESO's stories. It's not meant to make anyone feel strong or to prove the challenge I think most people are looking for. Quest and story bosses could stand to have an option that makes them harder, which I've already agreed to considering most of them are fairly easy (speaking for myself). It doesn't really fit the story when I can murder them in a handful of moments.

And I can't help but wonder when it'll be enough. How hard is hard enough? How long will it stay hard enough before people no longer find it a challenge and want stuff even harder? Some people might want things 10% harder, others might want things 50% harder. This is why making overland itself harder would be a problem as well because some people will say they didn't want it that much harder and others will say it's not hard enough and ZOS isn't listening. It's another reason why an optional toggle or slider is really the only way to implement increased difficulty, because this would be the problem even if they decided to do a Vet version of every zone.

[Edited for Baiting]

vsrs_au

Arunei wrote: »

You cannot have a toggle or slider that affects world difficulty. The game cannot make enemies both harder AND easier if there are people with different difficulty settings present. For example, a World Boss cannot have its Health and damage increased and its mechanics happen more frequently for someone with max difficulty, and at the same time have its Health and damage lowered and its mechanics happen less frequently for someone with minimum difficulty. And this WOULD happen, people with different difficulty settings would be doing the same content at the same time. The only way an optional slider would work is if it applied self debuffs of some kind.

Yes, we can have those choices, if the zones are instanced. Whether ZOS would (or even could) actually implement that is another matter.

Arunei

vsrs_au wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

You cannot have a toggle or slider that affects world difficulty. The game cannot make enemies both harder AND easier if there are people with different difficulty settings present. For example, a World Boss cannot have its Health and damage increased and its mechanics happen more frequently for someone with max difficulty, and at the same time have its Health and damage lowered and its mechanics happen less frequently for someone with minimum difficulty. And this WOULD happen, people with different difficulty settings would be doing the same content at the same time. The only way an optional slider would work is if it applied self debuffs of some kind.

Yes, we can have those choices, if the zones are instanced. Whether ZOS would (or even could) actually implement that is another matter.

If it's an instanced thing then there would be no need for sliders or toggles, if the instance itself would be made harder. Though I suppose giving the instance its own toggles would remove the "what is too hard or what is hard enough" problem that would come from a flat increase in difficulty for Vet overland/any other kind of instancing. But the way they implemented AwA because of apparently wanting less data being read so the database is "more performant" (which still reads to me like "we don't have enough room in the database for all this data and so we need to remove existing features") makes me really doubt they'd do instances or Vet versions.

Palosanto

Arunei wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

NVNNN wrote: »

Veteran players have nothing to do in overland zones.
Having listened to NPCs explaining how a big a threat this upcoming quest challenge is, defeating a boss with a few skills is just anti-climactic.
All overland should be on the same level as craglorn and new content (chapters) should offer progressive challenge.
Alternatively, an toggleable option to scale the overland to grant higher challenge and higher rewards would please all categories of players. Don't want any trouble and want to just experience the story? Here you go - every mob is oneshot. You're a living human being who wants to have fun playing the game? Sure, buddy, here's Craglorn + for you.

I've been here since closed beta, and I'm perfectly fine with how overland is. Vet players have plenty to do, you can't speak for all of us to suit a narrative. All content SHOULD NOT be scaled to what any given player is capable of and thus thinks everyone else should be able to do as well.

You cannot have a toggle or slider that affects world difficulty. The game cannot make enemies both harder AND easier if there are people with different difficulty settings present. For example, a World Boss cannot have its Health and damage increased and its mechanics happen more frequently for someone with max difficulty, and at the same time have its Health and damage lowered and its mechanics happen less frequently for someone with minimum difficulty. And this WOULD happen, people with different difficulty settings would be doing the same content at the same time. The only way an optional slider would work is if it applied self debuffs of some kind.

It's also extremely rude to trivialize players who are happy with overland being like it is, or even struggle with it, by insinuating they aren't "living people", and putting down how they enjoy playing also isn't a good look.

NVNNN wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

So, a fair example of my alts goes something like this:

Gear: Mother's Sorrow/Julianos/Zaan/Ring of Pale Order (or Wild Hunt). All legendary.

Champion Points: thoroughly researched and tweaked.

Companion: Fully maximized and all purple gear that is well balanced.

Setup this way I can do overland content in a much-preferred non-stressful way. Delves and Public Dungeons are quite doable.

I have quit doing DLC dungeons altogether, and I'd never consider Trials or PvP. Those things are either too stressful or well beyond my capability or game expectations.

I am 80 years old, recovering from multiple strokes, severe tremor and rheumatoid arthritis. Obviously on the very low end of the spectrum. I just quit playing SWTOR because its 7.0 expansion screwed over people like me -- because a lot of min-max players in raid-level gear complained content was too easy. Don't want to be forced to quit this game AGAIN because players wearing end-game armor think overland content is too easy.

I don't want a single piece of content to be designed around a certain group of people. This is why we have varying difficulties (normal - veteran - veteran hardmode), so that people can decide how "stressful" they want their content to be. I think making the same commitment to the overland wouild benefit big time.

[snip] Although i do recognize that certain aspects should be adjusted around disabilities, but they should never be designed around.

[edited for baiting]

Ironically, this exact arguement can be made for not making overland content harder to be designed around the people wanting it. *shrug*

So looking at this post, there's quite a bit of really strong language here regarding what cannot, should not, be done.

The thing is this, its really the Devs who determines what cannot or should not be done. Respect. They know best and I'm fine with that. However, in actuality there's alot that could be done and other things that even though they should not be done happen regardless hah.

Its all a matter of perspective and how we look at problem solving. I mean, I realize ESO is kind of an older game so I don't think anyone is looking for anything too spectacular or earth shattering that the Devs could never finish doing at the expense of the game itself. However, someone with the right attitude and approach concerning this issue could possibly find some middle ground as well as a few ideas on how to make necessary adjustments.

Because we can't pretend there is no problem. If it can't be fixed then it can be fixed however it seems to me that overland is missing difficulty progression okay, as well as a number of other issues like faction behaviours. So you see, it isn't just one issue people are pushing to resolve there are other problems, somewhat minor, yet still noticeable that are going on as well.

And that's why its important for everyone to have a voice in this so the folks who enjoy difficulty the way it is can let the Devs know they want it to stay that way and yet, for those of who have noticed issues as well as features commonly found in other games missing and want not just a challenge but difficulty that matches how far the character has grown, we need to be heard as well to help the Devs realize there are further problems needing to be solved to, at their leisure.

I have no problem with the devs implementing some way for players to have optional harder difficulty. But you cannot code the same enemies to be both harder AND easier at the same time to account for people using those optional...well, options, if they were to affect the world. If one person has the game set to Easy and another person has the game set to Hard, which of those does it apply? The game can't be asked to do both, you can't lower a boss' damage and increase it at the same time against the same group of mixed players. The optional slider or toggle would have to apply to each character, either buffing or debuffing them in some way depending on their setting. Yet many people seem to be against debuffs to their characters, even official ones that wouldn't require them to give up their gear and everything.

The thing I am 100% against is other people speaking for all veteran players like we all want or need harder overland, just to suit their narrative. I DON'T want harder overland, not because I have a hard time with it now but just because for me it's not an issue. I also don't want getting from point A to point B to be a hassle if every trash mob takes longer to kill. I also am against people who want harder overland imposed on everyone by making the game itself harder. [snip]

At the end of the day, overland is meant to deliver the bulk of ESO's stories. It's not meant to make anyone feel strong or to prove the challenge I think most people are looking for. Quest and story bosses could stand to have an option that makes them harder, which I've already agreed to considering most of them are fairly easy (speaking for myself). It doesn't really fit the story when I can murder them in a handful of moments.

And I can't help but wonder when it'll be enough. How hard is hard enough? How long will it stay hard enough before people no longer find it a challenge and want stuff even harder? Some people might want things 10% harder, others might want things 50% harder. This is why making overland itself harder would be a problem as well because some people will say they didn't want it that much harder and others will say it's not hard enough and ZOS isn't listening. It's another reason why an optional toggle or slider is really the only way to implement increased difficulty, because this would be the problem even if they decided to do a Vet version of every zone.


I like ur approach, and at least the final bosses to be made harder to kill or at least higher dmg and same defence/hp

unjulation

This is a repost of one of my posts -

" I came back after a good few years and thought the best way to get back into the game would be to create an alt and run through the game again, having done most of it years ago I reckoned it would be the way to go and was having a real blast of a time, so much so I thought I'd even got ESO+ for a month and see if it would be worthwhile, it really does make life easier and finally I brought my brother back to the game

Anyways, hearing about the up-and-coming changes gave pause for thought but tbh I didn't really care, I'd just continue to play the same as ever but a couple of things that have hit me with the dropping of the patch -

1) not getting completion xp from delves - like I mentioned my first character had done them all so this new one doesn't get it, that's a pisser and hits ware it hurts - my leveling journey, but I knew I could probably get over it the game itself is fun so all good

2) I've been hit with a bug ware all the skyshards that my first character had found are now no longer available to my alt - this bug doesn't seem to be affecting many if anybody else, I've not seen anyone mention it apart from me, mind it's not like I read every thread so it could be happening to others - but if that doesn't get fixed it has basically locked me out of a large pool of skill points and if it's only happening to a few peeps then I worry that it might not get fixed for an age if ever

So aye its a [snip] show for sure and has tainted my view of the game, changed my thinking about whether I should renew my sub, it's a no atm and I'm thinking that it's time for me and my bruv to find a new game we can play together which is a real shame as I've been having so much fun

I'm proper torn atm like I've mentioned a couple of times I've been having so much fun but I'm having a hard time justifying sticking about atm"

Thanks for reading and sorry if I've hijacked any threads in posting this in a couple of places on the forums
Unj 🧐

[edited for filter bypass]

Panachudo

Ya knoooow, reading all the replies shows a solid argument for a normal and veteran instance of overland content. Buuuuuut, with new RPS’s and MMO’s sporting 2018+ graphics an argument could be made to modernize the game engine. Loop this in with normal and vet overland content and it has the potential to leapfrog the game into the 2020’s.

Although the first piece is a discussion unto itself the options to truly modernize the game are there. It will just need to be invested in. If there is declining financial reward there will be equally declining incentive to invest in development. It is a catch 22 though.

Do we do X to appease our current player base or do we do Y to acquire new players. Or, do we do XY to acquire both? Or do start again? Either avenue is a financial commitment. It boils down to the return on investment for said commitment.

We should be looking at these lifecycle options now rather than later. Is it possible to capture everyone’s profile and migrate them to a new platform? This all reminds of Sword Art Online and to an extent Free Guy. Perhaps now, 8 years? since release, is the time we look at the possibility of new. The bigger question is: will our investment carry over?

Clutching to “we need this” “we need that” won’t last forever.

AlexanderDeLarge

Sylvermynx wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I also wish open world and delves bosses had the kind of AI and punishing mechanics as some of the optional bosses in Elden Ring.

I don't play a game to be punished.

Me either - nor "challenged". I play this game for sheer escapism from the real world, which has quite enough challenges for me.

I don't pay good money and spend hours on questlines where the "big bads" drop dead before they can perform their scripted actions or complete their dialog and frankly I don't see how anyone could possibly enjoy walking around killing everything like a demi-god.

Thus I won't be buying future content until this is addressed in some way. The point in progression where this becomes a problem for anyone adequately geared or skilled is... Inevitable, so I suggest ZOS does something to address the matter sooner rather than later because like it or not, they will have to address it eventually, so why not the immediate future and save everyone a whole lot of time and frustration? I've paid way too much money for expansions and DLCs where the overwhelming majority of that content (everything outside veteran dungeon/trial instances) is not enjoyable in the slightest.

When scaling is already in the game and it's literally a memento toggle away from being implemented in a rudimentary fashion to address it in the short term, it's baffling to argue against having this option given to us when there's a lot of people who feel the same exact way I do.

Sylvermynx

Each to her own. I'm supporting the game enough to cover for you too.... I'm happy to be a 74 year old "demigod" with crap reflexes and even worse internet, and still having fun in the game.

AlexanderDeLarge

Why does your fun have to come at the expense of mine and what makes your money and sentiment worth more than my own? I'm fundamentally asking for an option and you're opposing me even having a choice or say in the matter.

Don't like the veteran toggle? Don't play it. You already accepted that reality for dungeons and trials.

spartaxoxo

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Why does your fun have to come at the expense of mine and what makes your money and sentiment worth more than my own? I'm fundamentally asking for an option and you're opposing me even having a choice or say in the matter.

Don't like the veteran toggle? Don't play it. You already accepted that reality for dungeons and trials.

One person not using it and sharing their perspective so the devs understand why something being non-optional would not work, in no way is oppositional to the idea of an option. It only contradicts the idea it should be forced.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I've always said optional is fine. If it's for challenge banner/scroll option, that's fine, as would be instanced harder overland. I don't think the debuff thing is logical at all, though it might be the simplest to accomplish.

And no, no she doesn't oppose an option. That's her real opinion and has been for literal months.

Woozywyvern

Be careful what you wish for ..... given the divisive way AWA has been implemented, I have very little confidence Vet Overland could be introduced by ZOS in a way that maintains happiness in both camps of the overland debate.

Cadbury

I've mentioned this before, but maybe something like the World tier system from The Division 1&2 could work. Don't know how invested ZOS is over changing overland. I don't see any major overhaul or rework happening, but hope springs eternal.

Riptide

Just comes down to this - I nor many other players will pay to support a game where you can and have been able to stroll through 99% of the game in zero danger, and where that very basic issue is not addressed substantively for a prolonged period of time.

And this is a demographic that spends deeply on extras.

No matter how you come at the issue that is the brass tacks of it.

We’ve been asking for an optional difficulty setting for a decade.

Many of us have contributed thousands of dollars and testing hours, and that capital and those hours very simply is now going to the competition.

And doesn’t have to.

If the budget is so tight that even these sort of fundamental mechanics can’t be grappled with then sell it internally that it would pay for itself in the short term as well as long, because it would.

WiseSky

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

I think I figured it out

Make a Monster Helm

Cursed Oblivion Helm
1 item: Removes 666 Weapon and Spell Damage, Removes 6666 Penetration, Removes 3666 Armor, Removes 2666 Maximum Stamina, Removes 2666 Maximum Health... ETC

2 items: When you hit an enemy an Random Oblivion Overpowered Foe will be summoned attacking only you for X time

That is too simple. Too many won't support that!

Cursed Oblivion Helm
1 item: Removes 666 Weapon and Spell Damage, Removes 6666 Penetration, Removes 3666 Armor, Removes 2666 Maximum Stamina, Removes 2666 Maximum Health... ETC

2 items: When you hit an enemy an Random Oblivion Overpowered Foe will be summoned attacking only you for X time

Is this the best Idea so far?

Agenericname

Woozywyvern wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for ..... given the divisive way AWA has been implemented, I have very little confidence Vet Overland could be introduced by ZOS in a way that maintains happiness in both camps of the overland debate.

I thought that as soon as AWA hit the PTS and the feedback started. Overland is woefully lackluster, but watching this roll out, it could be worse.

wheresbes

I like overland as it is. For me, overland is a place where I enjoy the scenery, gather materials and stuff like that. Moreover, being a long time ES player, I'm used to become a sort of god later in game, so I wouldn't expect anything different than one-shotting wolves or whatever crosses my path. On top of that, I would really love to have an option, like the boots we had in Oblivion that makes wildlife not to attack, a mythic maybe? When I want challenging content I do dungeons and trials. I mean, I play mostly to relax in the evenings, I don't want to encounter something that threatens me at every step.

FeedbackOnly

Try overland content without healing.

There's a quest in shadowfen with such a situation. Made the content lot more interesting when it mattered if you could take the hit

Lysette

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Try overland content without healing.

There's a quest in shadowfen with such a situation. Made the content lot more interesting when it mattered if you could take the hit

Depends on what you call "healing" I guess - my builds are mainly based on high regeneration combined with a good damage shield - I have resolving vigor slotted just in case something would go wrong and a potion ready as well, but it is very rare, that regeneration and damage shield combined isn't enough. Most overland content doesn't even require to activate the damage shield - so I guess, people have a point.

Lysette

wheresbes wrote: »

I like overland as it is. For me, overland is a place where I enjoy the scenery, gather materials and stuff like that. Moreover, being a long time ES player, I'm used to become a sort of god later in game, so I wouldn't expect anything different than one-shotting wolves or whatever crosses my path. On top of that, I would really love to have an option, like the boots we had in Oblivion that makes wildlife not to attack, a mythic maybe? When I want challenging content I do dungeons and trials. I mean, I play mostly to relax in the evenings, I don't want to encounter something that threatens me at every step.

Yeah, that is the way I play as well - enjoying the scenery and having a good time in Tamriel - I would as well like an option to make normal wildlife less aggressive, especially those, who would normally rather hide or retreat instead of attacking by no good reason. Wolves are ok, those a pack hunters and predators, but other animals which do not fall into the predator category, why would they attack if they aren't directly threatened?

Some of my characters wear the grace-gloomed set, which has an auto-response attack function built in, so that I normally do not have to care for that and my armor does the fighting, still it is annoying at times, when it is triggered by no good reason.

If some armor can have an auto-response attack function built in, why couldn't there be some armor with an auto-repel function as well? Those characters having the grace-gloomed set, wear it mainly to get rid of trash mob attacking without my direct interference - but it would be better, if those wouldn't attack in the first place.

Those Dreugh near the Bogmother in Shadowfen are a good example - they are outlined in yellow, so they aren't aggressive for as long as I leave them alone - most Dreughs in other places are aggressive though, but not those near the Bogmother.

CombatRecon11B

There is a growing disparity between the immersion breaking overconfidence and arrogance of these haughty npc's who don't realize they are about to be annihilated.

I'd like to see some of these bosses give notice to the raw power of end game players by running and cowering, or launch attacks wildly, without focus, out of desperation. And can we get some of these overland bosses to admit they've made a terrible mistake having messed with us?

It's just wrong, hearing the constant, "I will destroy you," from some random and very weak overland boss. Like [snip], that's what those idiots in the veteran content said to me, and you see where that got 'em!

[edited for profanity bypass]

JharraStormrage

There are a lot of comments here, and I can't read them all, so likely my comments will be repetitive of many.

I've been playing MMOs for a very long time, and I've played ESO for quite a while. I find ESO to be the most fun so far for lots of reasons, mostly because I don't like to spend every possible free moment devoting myself to learning the metas and strategies, so group dungeons and trials don't get a lot of my attention, and PvP and Cyrodil hardly any, but I can still have loads of fun. Most of my time is spent doing overland, and I find it fun and relaxing.

I am at the max cap for my mains (2), with 800CP, so they are not shabby. I have soloed both public dungeons and world bosses, so I'd say I'm pretty good. Still, I wander by an alit and it takes me a second or two to deal with it, then another, then a sabre cat, then a durzog, etc. etc. etc.Sometimes it takes me as long to deal with a trash mob as it does a giant, though a giant is far more sturdy. Too many "trash" animals seemingly everywhere, and the fact I can't just look at them and have them wither and die seems incredulous.

A few of my ideas, because, why not?

- There are little creatures that ignore you, and I think as you go up the ladder of heroic-ness, more and more low-level mobs should ignore you. Perhaps as you get higher in level, your aggro circle gest smaller and smaller. That would take care of constantly being mobbed by mobs.

- Each area should have safe areas and very dangerous areas, not designated by "dungeon" or "delve," but by the density and level of baddies you encounter. Some of this is already in evidence. For instance, I'm touring the shores of Summerset fishing and collecting clam gall (driving myself crazy with that). When you get near the water sinkholes, you encounter more of the leftover sinkhole beasties. Cool. Otherwise, you can't walk 10 feet without tripping over a crappy coral viper. Too many of them.

So make a "Fangorn Forest" here and there that has no discernible border other than getting darker and more dangerous, and if you're a low-level player it can feel spooky and dangerous. For a higher level player it can just be fun with a slightly higher challenge.

- I was chatting with another player in Arteum and they say they play there lots because they just like to harvest, fish and do antiquities, and they never have to worry about annoying mobs. Make areas that are completely free of mobs for farming and hanging out, being very park-like.

- If you walk away from a mob and you are high enough level, make the distance they chase you shorter and shorter. I hate that I can run for what seems forever, only to have a mob bounce up to me, smack me, then immortally scurry back to their origin point.

- Do a better job of scaling things. A horovar, essentially a big bug, should have lots less survivability than a bear (for instance). Make minions far, far easier to dispatch than their controllers.

- For the love of Auri-El, make some things at least slightly easier to collect. Giant clams are hard enough to find, and clam gall, something you'd think you'd find in nearly every clam is stupidly rare. Add onto it the near-constant annoyance of having to kill annoying reef vipers and I'm being driven insane.

I could think of 10 dozen more things, but these annoy me the most, and I'm sure the hundreds of other posts here have some incredibly insightful information.

Sempronius_Varus

I play mainly for overland questing and would really like to see expanded story (continuation, world goes on, etc) content for all the old regions. People's lives still go on so there should be new threats and events happening there to bring you back, (or get worse if you avoid them for too long?)

As for NPC's being too easy, that's very true and I also played before one tamriel. I actually LIKED it before one tamriel up to the point of getting to champion/VR levels as you could travel to a region that was beyond your skill level and get your ass handed to you. That was actually *fun*.

That being said the arguments here that all the npc's today are just HP sinks. The problem I see it really is a lacking of AI (artificial intelligence) on the NPC's part. The NPC should be coded to make a determination on what he's facing (templar, nightblade, sorcerer, etc) and try and use options best to counter that threat. If there is more than one PC against him, he should be able to roughly judge relative threat levels and go against the biggest threat first, or the support for that threat. i.e. say a templar & a healer, kill the healer then kill templar.

Since there are defined PC roles it should be a solvable matrix to come up with skills (that a certain NPC should have. i.e. a sorcerer npc wouldn't have say a two handed maul, but they should have similar skill trees that a PC would have) that can be used to counter X PC threat.

I mean it should be really no difference than when coming up with new armour sets or whatever, after 8 years you should have more than enough data to come up with a threat model basis.