Overland Content Feedback Thread

Northwold

May not count as overland, not sure, but I find the maps for multilayered dungeons / buildings INCREDIBLY difficult to use.

(I'm writing this now because I've just run the length of traitors vault in arteum for what feels like the sixth time this evening only to realise that what I'm after is on a different floor and had to go all the way back to be able to get there.)

I've been playing five years or so, and I only realised a few months ago that the shading on the map varies with what level something is on, but even so the difference between the shades is so little that it's actually quite difficult to read the map and follow them at all.

And because you can't actually see the levels above and below properly when you change floor, you can be following the map, go up a staircase, and then get confused because whatever you were following is no longer displayed.

Different colours would really help, and the ability to see the different floors on the map at all times (I guess that demands a 3D map).

The overland zone maps themselves are also, obviously, pretty challenging. Eg Northern Elsweyr has a giant ravine in the middle, but with the map I would actually struggle to understand where it's supposed to be.

Magenpie

Hi there

Trying to keep my thoughts fresh and my own so I haven't read any other posts in this thread. So apols if I'm just repeating what others have said.

My two pence worth, I've come back to the game after a break of about a year, and absolutely loving the game again. The companion system is fantastic and is allowing me to investigate parts of the game I haven't tried before, which is great.

However, I've changed my view a little bit about the content difficulty. I used to think the balance was just fine, and easy overland content for people who just wanted to experience the world was as it should be, with more challenging content for those who wanted it in group dungeons, trials etc.

BUT there is quite a large difficulty gap between overland content and the more challenging stuff now, and I think the overland content is a *tiny* bit too easy, especially with the companion system? And for me anyway, I'd love more mid-range difficulty content, more stuff to challenge me as a solo player/2 man content SPECIFICALLY NOT aimed at just end game fully geared players. I'm not sure how you would do it, but having 2 man/solo level group dungeons for the average player, where they aren't required to make meta builds and read detailed info about mechanics. So, I dunno, maybe tune UP some of the version I dungeons but tune DOWN some of the later chapter/dlc dungeons for normal? I realise this is a bit vague.

Anyway the game is generally in such a good place, and I'm so glad that, despite the global awfulness of the pandemic, it allowed more people discover ESO. The changes from when the game first launched to now are so amazing and for the better, considering how fundemental many of those changes were. I think it's a credit to the devs that they listened and the vast majority of those changes were great. I still have gripes about the crown store, but I like the endeavour system. I think ESO Plus should be made even more appealing by extra outfit slots and things like that. Sorry I realise this last paragraph is a digression.

That's it. ^^

WiseSky

I think I figured it out

Make a Monster Helm

Cursed Oblivion Helm
1 item: Removes 666 Weapon and Spell Damage, Removes 6666 Penetration, Removes 3666 Armor, Removes 2666 Maximum Stamina, Removes 2666 Maximum Health... ETC

2 items: When you hit an enemy an Random Oblivion Overpowered Foe will be summoned attacking only you for X time

Rust_in_Peace

Been playing Elden Ring all week and it was such a great reminder of what video games and MMOs should be like when you have a big open world. ESO rarely ever feels like that. Also, anyone notice how much more satisfying it is to ride your horse in Elden Ring than ESO? Like you can still turn on a dime but your horse doesn't just spin 360 degrees weightlessly on the spot.

I also wish open world and delves bosses had the kind of AI and punishing mechanics as some of the optional bosses in Elden Ring. Not 'hard" compared to the main bosses, they don't have huge healthpools, but they do use attacks and crowd control abilities on you so you have to move, dodge, block, etc.

I think in general it's a testament to good game design, something ESO is sorely lacking, and yes you can make things difficult and still have an accessible game experience. I mean how many first timers are showing that yes in fact you can play a fromsoft game and still have fun even if you die? Anyway I hope the devs at zenimax have been playing ER for inspiration.

SilverBride

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I also wish open world and delves bosses had the kind of AI and punishing mechanics as some of the optional bosses in Elden Ring.

I don't play a game to be punished.

Sylvermynx

SilverBride wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I also wish open world and delves bosses had the kind of AI and punishing mechanics as some of the optional bosses in Elden Ring.

I don't play a game to be punished.

Me either - nor "challenged". I play this game for sheer escapism from the real world, which has quite enough challenges for me.

spartaxoxo

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I also wish open world and delves bosses had the kind of AI and punishing mechanics as some of the optional bosses in Elden Ring. Not 'hard" compared to the main bosses, they don't have huge healthpools, but they do use attacks and crowd control abilities on you so you have to move, dodge, block, etc.

The group bosses more or less are that way for a while now. The only reason that there's more that don't is just because the base game released with so much content it had a years long head start. I think it's good that the delve bosses don't as the delve daily is meant to be a solo thing casuals can do to get their daily loot, and the skill floor in this game is like 5 sub basements down from the ceiling of a skyscraper.

Quest Bosses on the other hand, I think should absolutely be this way in some capacity. I realize they'd need to make it optional but like c'mon, no way Mannimarco should be a chump.

Sylvermynx

Mannimarco was NOT a chump for me. Nor was Molag Bal, nor Vandacia.

casparian

Sylvermynx wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I also wish open world and delves bosses had the kind of AI and punishing mechanics as some of the optional bosses in Elden Ring.

I don't play a game to be punished.

Me either - nor "challenged". I play this game for sheer escapism from the real world, which has quite enough challenges for me.

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give. The point of the years of feedback asking for that isn't to say that players like you don't exist or that you shouldn't get what you want. The point is that the rest of us would love to see a solution that accommodates us, as well.

I will never understand why so many people engage with this topic as though this is an either-or, zero sum proposition.

Sylvermynx

Probably because there doesn't seem to be any consensus about "how much harder", and ZOS has already muttered about how hard it will be to make toggles, sliders etc. I'm not saying I believe them, but that's what we've heard.

Also, I really doubt that harder overland will happen soon - because they're supposedly doing a complete re-architecture of the base code to (maybe hopefully) fix pvp, which has certainly been problematic for the 3.5 years I've played this game. Nope, don't pvp either, but I do feel that something should be done for those who DO - and if that gets done and done right, the whole game should be on more solid ground, at which point other things may be more feasible.

And other than that, there have been various posts by individuals who DO insist that "they just need to make it harder overall, no need to worry" about people like me.... Optional is great if it happens. Harder without optional.... I'd be having to hope I could find something else to play, or going back full time to Skyrim and Oblivion.

SilverBride

casparian wrote: »

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give.

This really sums it up.

ESO is well suited to what a lot of players are looking for, so they play ESO.

Then there are players who are looking for something else that ESO doesn't give.

[Edited for clarity]

Jodynn

There are those who are more talented at games and wish for more challenging mentally (more theorycraft) and skillfully (more challenging content).

There are those who are more engaged who wish to experience everything at their leisure wishing for escapism (a fantasy realm with no real barrier) and casual enjoyment (no deep dive needed in mechanics)

Then let's throw in the last group of the three circle vinn diagram, those who want to look cool and feel cool.

So how do we balance the top two without stepping on the hands of another? Well currently overland and quest is already smashing the hands who seek a challenge. The quest bosses can be demolished with only light attacking over a few seconds, the builds required to do so aren't even needing CP and can use two sets of crafted/overland gear.

Further on that even in end game PvE it's mostly one meta for all with slight variations because the stars aren't dynamic or interesting enough. Sets are mostly you are a buffer or you are selfish, but that's not interesting to a theorycrafter like myself, PvP is sort of interesting for it but there are defintely sets that outshine others. So I go play games like PoE with huge build diversity. Also, elemental succession change sucks really bad.

I would argue escapism and casual enjoyment is also suffering though in a different way, the stories are bland due to our character being an idiot most of the time asking for repeating dialogue or obvious questions, or just having no ability to exert a personality whatsoever. Some of the side quests are interesting but there we are again, with mostly A or B type personalities, no subtley. Futhermore there is no memory of how your character acted even if you do choose certain actions. It's not immersive in the least and there are 0 stakes.

Now honestly, this third group is where I hurt maybe the most. I main magDK, and let me tell you, slowly swinging my limp looking whip at someone doesn't scream cool nor feel powerful, especially repeating the same, lame, old animation over and over. How about my best friend and lover who mains a mag sorc, using a stupid little scamp at max level? It's super unimpressive. What about using flurry with blunt weapons? Hey man, I know I have this axe but let me poke you with the blunt end... Great. Point is, combat feels stagnant due to animation repetition and not a meaningful update since launch basically except.. the dreaded stonefist. Oh and inferno/frost heavy attacks still feel like ass.

While I'm here in the cool land, why can't we dye our hair/fur? And why are most of the older dyes look the same and bad?

Okay that's a pretty long rant on the problems I see. There are more such as end game crafting is dull and feels like a chore similar to dishes IRL.

My idea to fix them? I'm fine with overland being the way it is by default, make a option to enter a vet zone for your group that has more rewards but harder content.

People complaining about needing help with world bosses, population lowered or whatever random things they mention? Make it all the same zone, but have the areas instanced like when you made a quest choice/haven't completed a quest zone and you go to a different instance. This allows people the ability to ask for help while still doing the content they enjoy.

I personally like the idea of a mercenary guild that people can hire you to complete an objective, they can pay or zos can pay or both, not some obscene amount but people *** on me for wanting a challenge then want to feel entitled asking for help. I mean I help anytime I see someone in zone ask for help, and still would; however, having contracts sound interesting.

When you do quest that are specific to you, make it so that you can pick a default quest mode, toggle able per quest. This way I can get my challenge, more reward and those people who like the way it is now can continue unabated.

For theorycraft, you have different elements, different status effects, different x y z, so make use of them. Give me a build focused on fire damage and burning by making cp stars focused on that, maybe even converting non fire damage to fire damage, but doing less over other damage types so you have to go all in. That's one possibility, one idea. Expand, make a lightning sorcerer build viable. Give us more skills per skill line or make classes agnostic where you can pick your own skill line. Let us pick BOTH morphs. Just something to spice it up please. A lot of sets need help, I'd be willing to work with you set by set, but not going to type it all here.

Give classes the flair they deserve, update the skill animations, make them alternate for spammables so you aren't doing the same animation over and over (this includes blast bones and shalks), and update the skill effects.

Lastly, let us dye our hair, and hopefully fur, and for humans let them get a tan or pale themselves.

Okay, I've typed enough, I care a lot about this game and believe everyone should be able to enjoy the game equally, casual, intense, style, pve, pvp, whatever. Right now, I'm not going to lie I'm not happy with it and losing interest, but I believe in all of you and the potential this game and world has.

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Mannimarco was NOT a chump for me. Nor was Molag Bal, nor Vandacia.

All of them were chumps for me. There haven't been any quest bosses that weren't easy. I can see that they have put in effort to make them harder and added more required mechanics over the years, but they are still extremely easy for me. And that's frankly not a brag, I may be a vet player but I am not an elite one.

The skill floor in this game is just necessarily extremely low. We need something in this game that addresses that and lets us increase the difficulty. Obviously optional. .

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give.

This really sums it up.

ESO is well suited to what a lot of players are looking for, so they play ESO.

Then there are players who are looking for something else that ESO doesn't give.

[Edited for clarity]

Not quite. ESO does give what we're looking for in other areas of this game, just not this one area. So they are already well versed on how to give us what we seek, and it's just a matter of making a decision to provide it and then making a decision on the how it will be provided.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give.

This really sums it up.

ESO is well suited to what a lot of players are looking for, so they play ESO.

Then there are players who are looking for something else that ESO doesn't give.

[Edited for clarity]

Not quite. ESO does give what we're looking for in other areas of this game, just not this one area. So they are already well versed on how to give us what we seek, and it's just a matter of making a decision to provide it and then making a decision on the how it will be provided.

The point I am making is that ESO doesn't give a challenge in every single aspect of the game, and everyone knows this. Some may choose to play it anyway because they enjoy other aspects of the game, but it is never going to be everything for everyone. I don't enjoy PvP or end game so I just don't participate in them.

The problem isn't that the game doesn't have challenging content, because it has plenty. The problem is that some players want every single aspect of the game, including the base questing and story zones to be a challenge, which is not what ESO is. That is why a solution should be aimed at the player, not the game.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give.

This really sums it up.

ESO is well suited to what a lot of players are looking for, so they play ESO.

Then there are players who are looking for something else that ESO doesn't give.

[Edited for clarity]

Not quite. ESO does give what we're looking for in other areas of this game, just not this one area. So they are already well versed on how to give us what we seek, and it's just a matter of making a decision to provide it and then making a decision on the how it will be provided.

The problem isn't that the game doesn't have challenging content, because it has plenty. The problem is that some players want every single aspect of the game, including the base questing and story zones to be a challenge, which is not what ESO is. That is why a solution should be aimed at the player, not the game.

It is a problem from the design of the game, not player tastes that lead to this. ESO created a situation where they allowed the skill gap to get far wider than what is normal. The players would not be experiencing this issue if it weren't for that. They insist on not closing that gap and instead creating harder and harder group content that relies on the current power levels to be even remotely doable, and I use that term loosely because the size of the endgame community in this game is smaller than any other mmo I have played. And it's mid-tier endgame pug scene is nearly entirely dead.

So they gave us a ton of power and very few opportunities to use it. That's a game design issue not a player taste issue.

This is a very solvable problem though. Just give us an optional way to increase the difficulty of the stories.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give.

This really sums it up.

ESO is well suited to what a lot of players are looking for, so they play ESO.

Then there are players who are looking for something else that ESO doesn't give.

[Edited for clarity]

Not quite. ESO does give what we're looking for in other areas of this game, just not this one area. So they are already well versed on how to give us what we seek, and it's just a matter of making a decision to provide it and then making a decision on the how it will be provided.

The problem isn't that the game doesn't have challenging content, because it has plenty. The problem is that some players want every single aspect of the game, including the base questing and story zones to be a challenge, which is not what ESO is. That is why a solution should be aimed at the player, not the game.

It is a problem from the design of the game, not player tastes that lead to this. ESO created a situation where they allowed the skill gap to get far wider than what is normal. The players would not be experiencing this issue if it weren't for that. They insist on not closing that gap and instead creating harder and harder group content that relies on the current power levels to be even remotely doable, and I use that term loosely because the size of the endgame community in this game is smaller than any other mmo I have played. And it's mid-tier endgame pug scene is nearly entirely dead.

So they gave us a ton of power and very few opportunities to use it. That's a game design issue not a player taste issue.

This is a very solvable problem though. Just give us an optional way to increase the difficulty of the stories.

ESO has followed the same basic setup that many other MMO's do, with the questing zones being easy and challenges being in dungeons and raids and trials. These other games have powerful players too, but I don't ever remember anyone in any of these games ever once asking that the questing zones become more difficult to match their power. I am not sure why it is different here.

I do see debuffs, sliders and challenge banners as a reasonable quality of life option for these players, but not changing the base game.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give.

This really sums it up.

ESO is well suited to what a lot of players are looking for, so they play ESO.

Then there are players who are looking for something else that ESO doesn't give.

[Edited for clarity]

Not quite. ESO does give what we're looking for in other areas of this game, just not this one area. So they are already well versed on how to give us what we seek, and it's just a matter of making a decision to provide it and then making a decision on the how it will be provided.

The problem isn't that the game doesn't have challenging content, because it has plenty. The problem is that some players want every single aspect of the game, including the base questing and story zones to be a challenge, which is not what ESO is. That is why a solution should be aimed at the player, not the game.

It is a problem from the design of the game, not player tastes that lead to this. ESO created a situation where they allowed the skill gap to get far wider than what is normal. The players would not be experiencing this issue if it weren't for that. They insist on not closing that gap and instead creating harder and harder group content that relies on the current power levels to be even remotely doable, and I use that term loosely because the size of the endgame community in this game is smaller than any other mmo I have played. And it's mid-tier endgame pug scene is nearly entirely dead.

So they gave us a ton of power and very few opportunities to use it. That's a game design issue not a player taste issue.

This is a very solvable problem though. Just give us an optional way to increase the difficulty of the stories.

ESO has followed the same basic setup that many other MMO's do, with the questing zones being easy and challenges being in dungeons and raids and trials. These other games have powerful players too, but I don't ever remember anyone in any of these games ever once asking that the questing zones become more difficult to match their power. I am not sure why it is different here.

I do see debuffs, sliders and challenge banners as a reasonable quality of life option for these players, but not changing the base game.

I didn't state they needed to change base game. So, let's set that aside for a moment. I'm not actually talking about any specific implementation atm. I am talking about my play experience that comes about because of the design issue with the game itself.

In other games, there is much bigger of a PUG scene for endgame content. And the reason for that is because the skill gaps aren't as large.

I know other games have endgame players find questing easier too. I have played those games. I have excelled at those games. I almost ended up working at one the companies, I was so knowledgeable.

So I know that once you reach endgame, quests are just fodder for exp so that you can get to the real endgame which is dungeons and the like.

But ESO doesn't work well as a traditional mmo, in part because of the way the way they have created an extremely hard stratification for gear. In other games, if my guild didn't have anything scheduled for the hardest raids, I could go grab a PUG. Now, PUGing was notoriously awful compared to guild groups. Everyone and their mom preferred guild groups. But people still did PUGs anyway. You'd grab a can of red bull, set aside a few hours, and get it done.

This mid-level endgame scene is entirely absent here.

Most of the content in this game is either easy to do even with PUGs, or is hard enough that nobody wants to do it outside of rigorously scheduled times that are planned like a week in advance.

On top of that, while questing in none of the games I played was difficult. Being elite wasn't really about me being so powerful that I literally killed bosses before they even finished their dialogue. They didn't need immunity phases to not die that quick. That's because, again, the skill gap here is on an entirely different level than most other games I've played. So even though they were also way easy, they weren't so easy that they could make things feel anti-climatic unless I specifically stopped playing.

That's the situation I find myself in sometimes in this game. And sometimes that's fine and enjoyable. If I'm doing a delve daily for a box, grinding out some exp real quick, or am actually in the mood for nearly walking sim level difficulty then I can enjoy the quests quite a bit. And if all I'm doing is heavy attacking because my hands hurt, then it's honestly a blessing.

But there's other times when I need more than that. But there's literally nothing for me to do.

So either they need to give me a way to optionally modify the floor level content, or they need to add more content specifically aimed at providing a challenge that can be done on demand at a difficulty level appropriate for vet players.

Because right now the options are play floor level content or play something that demands a group and is so hard you're basically only playing on Thursdays at 8pm to 10pm.

Franchise408

Fennwitty wrote: »

Playing other games recently, and I experienced the feeling of "oh this overland thing might kill me if I'm not careful".

Was a nice change.

I've left ESO in large part because of this issue, and have been playing Diablo 2 Resurrected (a better version of the game that ESO is attempting to be), and I get the same feeling. It's so nice knowing that I actually need to be careful and have to use strategy otherwise I can be killed (and there is an actual consequence to death), and knowing that as I level up, there are increased modes of difficulty to ensure a challenging experience.

SilverBride

I really don't know about end game in ESO because I am at a point that all I want now is fun and relaxation. However I was an avid PvPer and Raider in every other MMO I played, and it was basically the same with them.

Raids were at set days and times because they do take at least a couple of hours of continuous attention and not everyone can just jump in any time and dedicate that much time spontaneously whenever they want. I knew some players who only logged in on raid nights because that is the only content they ever did.

If the game seems to be lacking in end game content then that is a separate issue that should be addressed.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

That's great! Good for you! ESO questing and exploration is really well suited to what you're looking for.

Unfortunately, lots and lots of players are looking for something else, questing and exploration with challenging combat, that ESO doesn't give.

This really sums it up.

ESO is well suited to what a lot of players are looking for, so they play ESO.

Then there are players who are looking for something else that ESO doesn't give.

[Edited for clarity]

Not quite. ESO does give what we're looking for in other areas of this game, just not this one area. So they are already well versed on how to give us what we seek, and it's just a matter of making a decision to provide it and then making a decision on the how it will be provided.

The point I am making is that ESO doesn't give a challenge in every single aspect of the game, and everyone knows this. Some may choose to play it anyway because they enjoy other aspects of the game, but it is never going to be everything for everyone. I don't enjoy PvP or end game so I just don't participate in them.

The problem isn't that the game doesn't have challenging content, because it has plenty. The problem is that some players want every single aspect of the game, including the base questing and story zones to be a challenge, which is not what ESO is. That is why a solution should be aimed at the player, not the game.

But what reason is there, when every other piece of pve content in the game offers choice, is it that overland should not? Would it be easier for zos to ditch normal dungeons and trials, cutting down on the number of people who can enjoy them to make it easier on themselves to maintain, or is it better for there to be choice, so more players can actually enjoy it? As for your last post directly above this one, end game content is group content, aside from grinding the 2 solo arenas what is there for someone alone to do who seeks engaging gameplay and wants to keep playing eso?

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I really don't know about end game in ESO because I am at a point that all I want now is fun and relaxation. However I was an avid PvPer and Raider in every other MMO I played, and it was basically the same with them.

Raids were at set days and times because they do take at least a couple of hours of continuous attention and not everyone can just jump in any time and dedicate that much time spontaneously whenever they want. I knew some players who only logged in on raid nights because that is the only content they ever did.

If the game seems to be lacking in end game content then that is a separate issue that should be addressed.

All the ones I played, guild raids were at set times. And the hardest ones were really only done with guilds. But then there was also ones that were moderate level that people did with PUGs if there was no scheduled guild group or whatever. I remember many a fun night literally drinking energy drinks and spending hours in them with total strangers. People were willing to do this because it generally wasn't that the raids were impossible to do at their power level, but that they required great knowledge of your classes skills, precise timing, knowledge of the bosses mechanics, etc. So since they had the hope they could get it done, they buckled down and did it.

These generally were much worse in quality to guild raids. Again, everyone preferred those and made a ton of jokes about PUGs. Some players refused to run with anything else but I always enjoyed the pugs. At the end of the day they were a great way to meet players and have fun doing challenging content.

That experience is basically entirely absent here and I have no hope of them ever fixing that. Truly endgame players get ONE new trial a year, and it's rightfully catered towards the best of the best who otherwise get nothing else.

But that doesn't leave much time for anything else interesting at any level pf coordination and difficulty lower than that.

If they gave us ways to modify the difficulty of the quests, it could help fill that gap at least a little bit. Obviously it would need to be optional. And debuffs are good solution imo since it's modifiable since vet level itself varies a lot in power level.

But something needs to happen.

SilverBride

CP5 wrote: »

But what reason is there, when every other piece of pve content in the game offers choice, is it that overland should not? Would it be easier for zos to ditch normal dungeons and trials, cutting down on the number of people who can enjoy them to make it easier on themselves to maintain, or is it better for there to be choice, so more players can actually enjoy it? As for your last post directly above this one, end game content is group content, aside from grinding the 2 solo arenas what is there for someone alone to do who seeks engaging gameplay and wants to keep playing eso?

Because every other piece of PvE content that isn't overland is end game. Overland is not.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

But what reason is there, when every other piece of pve content in the game offers choice, is it that overland should not? Would it be easier for zos to ditch normal dungeons and trials, cutting down on the number of people who can enjoy them to make it easier on themselves to maintain, or is it better for there to be choice, so more players can actually enjoy it? As for your last post directly above this one, end game content is group content, aside from grinding the 2 solo arenas what is there for someone alone to do who seeks engaging gameplay and wants to keep playing eso?

Because every other piece of PvE content that isn't overland is end game. Overland is not.

This is extremely true which is one of the multiple reasons I think a debuff slider is the way to go. Well, I wouldn't call it endgame but it's harder than Overland.

Also why I used to be very opposed to fancy rewards for it. With AWA I no longer care about that part though.

Sylvermynx

I'm all for making a choice to have an optional harder overland. I'm just not sure how viable it is at this point - because nothing's going to happen this year and perhaps part of next (due to the re-architecture discussed in the PVP - January 2022 stickied thread).

I would love for all of you who want agonizing gameplay to get exactly that - as long as it doesn't affect me with my limitations, and others who are happy with overland the way it is. I'm just unsure that it will happen any time soon, or that even if it does, you'll all be happy with however it's handled.

I tend to foresee this "discussion" still going on 3, 4, 5 years from now. That certainly wouldn't be out of the real of the possible, but would in fact accomplish nothing for you.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

But what reason is there, when every other piece of pve content in the game offers choice, is it that overland should not? Would it be easier for zos to ditch normal dungeons and trials, cutting down on the number of people who can enjoy them to make it easier on themselves to maintain, or is it better for there to be choice, so more players can actually enjoy it? As for your last post directly above this one, end game content is group content, aside from grinding the 2 solo arenas what is there for someone alone to do who seeks engaging gameplay and wants to keep playing eso?

Because every other piece of PvE content that isn't overland is end game. Overland is not.

This is extremely true which is one of the multiple reasons I think a debuff slider is the way to go. Well, I wouldn't call it endgame but it's harder than Overland.

Also why I used to be very opposed to fancy rewards for it. With AWA I no longer care about that part though.

Well we do agree on the debuff slider. And I think AWA removed a lot of other options from the table.

joerginger

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Mannimarco was NOT a chump for me. Nor was Molag Bal, nor Vandacia.

All of them were chumps for me. There haven't been any quest bosses that weren't easy. I can see that they have put in effort to make them harder and added more required mechanics over the years, but they are still extremely easy for me. And that's frankly not a brag, I may be a vet player but I am not an elite one.

The skill floor in this game is just necessarily extremely low. We need something in this game that addresses that and lets us increase the difficulty. Obviously optional. .

I remember the final fight of the Northern Elsweyr story. We were a group of three, yet it was an utterly horrendous fight and we seriously struggled. We did make it, but it was incredibly close.
Granted, that was quite a while ago and I was an even worse player back then than I am today. But my friends were an at least relatively good healer and an excellent damage dealer, so unless I was holding back the entire team, we must have sucked very hard at "reading" the mechanics of that fight.

Of course I never really started the Northern Elsweyr storyline on any of my other characters after that nightmare. Once was bad enough.

Actually, I can think of several end-of-story quest bosses that at least were very hard when I did them on my main character and thus for the first time. The end bosses of the Dark Brotherhood story and of the Clockwork City story instantly come to mind, also the Southern Elsweyr end boss. The latter was something I was already about to give up on completely after plenty of failed attempts, but luckily I tried it in a rather tipsy state after a couple of beers, and for some bizarre reason I got the timing for those stupid mechanics right (enough) to get through that fight then. Of course I never did the Southern Elsweyr story again on any of my other charaters and the DB and CWC stories on only one other character again. And no, I was not a low level player when I sucked at those boss fights. In CWC I was around CP 100+ and for the DB story I was even higher. I only remember that because Mad Tinkerer was the first set of which I got the full five pieces and one of these was not CP 160, but only CP 130. I kept that for a long time until I eventually got two times five pieces from actually recommended sets...

Sylvermynx

The fight with Mulaamnir had me in tears. Along with my lack of decent (meaning younger) reflexes, I struggle with satellite "broadband" (the only connection I have available here other than - yeah, dial up....) I could never get to the shield before getting fried, even if I thought I was leaving early. That entire thing took me about 4 hours over two days - and the only reason it eventually ended was that I got up at 2 am hoping I was the only person awake and on the beam then so maybe the ping would be workable. And of course, he doesn't "refresh" his health pool....

I've not even considered finishing S Elsweyr - once with that sort of thing was all I have in me. And then I turned around and decided to do Blackwood because that was one of my favorite areas in Oblivion....

Vandacia was another horrible experience - I could manage the shield okay, but trying to cue the attacks from the Ambitions and the archers always failed - too much lag.... You'd think I'd have learned my lesson, ain't? But questing is my fun.... and the fact that the end bosses are pretty close to impossible for me.... *sigh*

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

But what reason is there, when every other piece of pve content in the game offers choice, is it that overland should not? Would it be easier for zos to ditch normal dungeons and trials, cutting down on the number of people who can enjoy them to make it easier on themselves to maintain, or is it better for there to be choice, so more players can actually enjoy it? As for your last post directly above this one, end game content is group content, aside from grinding the 2 solo arenas what is there for someone alone to do who seeks engaging gameplay and wants to keep playing eso?

Because every other piece of PvE content that isn't overland is end game. Overland is not.

Dungeons aren't end game, normal trials aren't end game. They're content, same as the rest, and your preferred way of enjoying the content shouldn't act as a barrier saying that is the only correct way of enjoying it. As I brought up before, since you believe anything that isn't overland is end game, should all the normal variants be removed, because it is "end game" for "end game players" only?

SilverBride

A separate veteran overland would have to duplicate every overland achievement to reflect having completed them in veteran mode. In light of account wide achievements being implemented I very much doubt that this would happen.