Overland Content Feedback Thread

disky

TaSheen wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Unfortunately, when I read the quote from Lambert, this suggests a contradiction:

“Give us a difficulty slider, let us do hard modes.’ There’s things we’re looking at but it’s not a simple problem..."

This suggests that they are looking at a slider.

"...ten different people can play the game and they all play it ten different ways and it’s hard for some and easy for others. So we have to find the happy medium ground where the most amount of people can enjoy it.”

In a slider situation, "happy medium" would be whatever the player sets the slider for. Instead, this sounds like they are trying for a difficulty level that is somewhere in the middle, and that would apply to everyone. Basically, what they are doing today.


Maybe they are working on a slider that they can use, but would not necessarily be available to the player? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually after further thought yesterday, this is pretty much exactly what I decided they meant as well. I hate to say this so bluntly - but they are VERY good at "double non-speak".

Okay, then let's be clear.

Dear @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno,

ESO provides numerous ways for players of varying interests and skill levels to have a good time, but with the release of Gold Road and the apparent increase in overland difficulty of the West Weald zone, it seems clear that there are many players who find it too difficult, and those who find it still too easy. The attempt made to address complaints from veteran players regarding the challenge of overland zones is appreciated, but this implementation isn't working for the following reasons:

- Those who liked overland challenge as it was in other zones feel like the game is now failing to meet their needs

- For many players in many scenarios, overland in West Weald is still too easy

- The changes in West Weald are not consistent with other zones, creating an inconsistent overland experience

Making adjustments on a per-zone basis is never going to satisfy everyone, but it's clear that something should be done. Obviously the topic of a challenge slider has been broached among the devs, but for whatever reason, it never seems to be spoken about positively or publicly as an actionable feature. I think it would help us all to understand why it isn't viable, or at least why it seems that even though it makes sense to the majority of players who frequent this thread, and it has demonstrably become a point of contention for players which can ultimately lead to attrition, it never appears to be taken seriously by ZOS.

A system in which a player is able to choose an increased level of challenge, across all overland content including delves and public dungeons, is a desired feature. The implementation and granularity of this feature is a matter of debate but it really seems like it would be in the best interest of all players to have something along these lines. Making adjustments zone-by-zone is resulting in an unsatisfying and inconsistent experience for players across archetypes and skill levels.

Some of us simply want to experience the story without being hindered by the average pack of bandits while others want every encounter to be a fight for our lives. I don't know the limitations you're working under, though I think that would really help us all to understand why things are the way they are, but I do feel like it should be possible to come up with a solution for overland that serves everyone, without resorting to the creation of alternative content that can be very fun but doesn't address this core gameplay issue. A debuff system seems to make sense here. Why is this so difficult to achieve?

I love this game, and I think most of us here do or we wouldn't stick around. But for a lot of us, overland simply isn't satisfying to play and for many TES fans, overland IS the game. To me, challenge is a component of immersion, and if I'm fighting Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon and they go down as easily (or much easier than) the average dungeon boss, it feels like the game is broken. Please do something about this, and please listen to the community if anything is ever done.

Thank you!

colossalvoids

With their speeds of implementing any measures be it pvp related, difficulty or anything else I'd be even surprised if many people who actually wanted that would remain to witness any positive result at the end.

SilverBride

disky wrote: »

Dear @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno,

...with the release of Gold Road and the apparent increase in overland difficulty of the West Weald zone, it seems clear that there are many players who find it too difficult, and those who find it still too easy. ...this implementation isn't working for the following reasons:

- Those who liked overland challenge as it was in other zones feel like the game is now failing to meet their needs

- The changes in West Weald are not consistent with other zones, creating an inconsistent overland experience

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

I agree with the above quoted points but would like to elaborate why I feel this way from my own perspective.

I am a veteran player and I do participate in challenging content. But I love a laid back relaxing experience to play my character through the story.

Each new chapter has gotten more difficult and it was High Isle in particular where I noticed the Story Bosses now having invulnerable phases and being more difficult. This difficulty has increased even more with every chapter until it finally reached a point that some players can no longer complete the zone story due to the difficulty of the Story Bosses.

Gold Road reached a point that I don't even bother with the World Bosses any more now that I have the scripts I need. I just run up to discover a boss and let AWA complete it now. I also don't run to aid those in zone asking for help with them any more like I once used to because it's such an unenjoyable experience that I just can't do it.

Then there are the Public Dungeon Group Events, the one in Silorn in particular, that is so ridiculously difficult that no one wants to help anyone with them. I have done this Boss on 7 characters and I had to wait and beg for help every time. One time it took a full hour before anyone came.

The overland experience I loved for many years is being ripped out from under me, and others like me, and I just want to point out this statement that Rich made in the previously quoted interview : "ESO being too hard was what once pushed so many away." because I feel that if things keep going the way they are we are in a real danger of this happening again.

Stafford197

This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….

Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?

Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.

Elsonso

Stafford197 wrote: »

This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….

Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?

Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.

Is it ZOS not doing as the players ask, or the players not listening to what ZOS has said their chosen direction is? They have said they have no plans to do it. Recently, they said they were looking into it ( <-- we already knew this, though ), but the "no plans" statement still stands, as far as anyone knows.

Edit: added note above.

disky

Elsonso wrote: »

Is it ZOS not doing as the players ask, or the players not listening to what ZOS has said their chosen direction is?

Game developers are not perfect and their vision isn't always what is best for the game. We've seen plenty of mistakes in the MMO and live service genres and if the company making the game you love is making a decision you don't agree with, the least you can do is provide feedback. Frankly, if ZOS' plan is to continue down the path they're on without addressing the obvious problems then they're going to lose more paying customers. They have some clear options for turning this around, and telling them what we want is the best way to ensure that those options are at least attempted.

Stafford197

Elsonso wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….

Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?

Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.

Is it ZOS not doing as the players ask, or the players not listening to what ZOS has said their chosen direction is? They have said they have no plans to do it. Recently, they said they were looking into it ( <-- we already knew this, though ), but the "no plans" statement still stands, as far as anyone knows.

Edit: added note above.

Do you represent the company? That mindset is radically anti-consumer and should not be encouraged.

If a large swath of your consumers ask for something, you would do well to provide it. What I’m saying has nothing to do with either of our personal opinions on Vet Overland. It’s about the principle of it..

Sometimes the vision of the business and the consumer base will overlap. Sometimes they don’t…
In the cases where they don’t overlap, the only reason not to listen to your consumers is ego. That’s a bad thing, as made evident in more recent times: see the Jabs Animation changes, or U35, or how Gold Road is the smallest chapter, or how Q3 2024 and Q4 2024 have no actual content. That is their vision.

I don’t care what their vision is because that vision can be changed to accommodate the actual users of this product. Not the other way around.

TaSheen

Only ZOS knows if it's really a "large swath of customers". Regardless, if the company has a vision for the game it produces, and they don't choose to embrace something radically different from that vision, that's up to them.

Since they are doing very little talking about it - except in very generic terms - it's likely no one will know until whatever it is evolves to the "set in stone" version, at which point it will be discussed (probably just before release). And at that point, it may turn into the oft-discussed "be careful what you wish for".

Stafford197

I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.

Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.

Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.

You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.

TaSheen

Stafford197 wrote: »

I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.

Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.

Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.

You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.

Your last paragraph is, I fear, quite likely to actually happen. Right now, there are releases beginning with Galen which I personally have not played (the quest lines I mean) because due to limitations of my own, I simply cannot deal with the end quest story bosses. And in Necrom and Gold Road, I have to be so careful doing anything in overland because they appear to have ramped up the difficulty to where it's just so much more difficult for me that I just don't really go there - I've done a few antiquities and surveys, but having to watch overland as if it's a dungeon is just not for me.

We'll see what happens - but knowing how things have gone after players' requests have been "filled" by the devs but were nowhere close to what was requested, I'm feeling as if once they settle on a (probably across the board) ramping up of overland difficulty, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and Oblivion - which yes, I very much enjoy and still love. But what I love about ESO is it's accessibility to play even with my limitations, and the fact that unlike the single player titles, it's not static - it changes with each release. [Sure, Skyrim and Oblivion have player made mod content outside the graphics and um.... well, can't talk about those mods here.... but there's only so much of it, and once you've done it you don't necessarily repeat it.]

Muizer

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

I'd like to endorse the questions asked by @disky and @SilverBride with the following note.

You have told us in the past that players seeking a greater challenge are 'funneled into' dungeons, trials and arenas. IMHO this is not true. ESO offers two very different categories of PvE experience. There's heavily combat and mechanics focused instanced content for which you offer difficulty progression from normal to veteran (and hard mode). And then there's a exploration and questing experience in an open world for which you do not offer such progression. That's a missing quadrant; a hole in the offering that players like us are falling through. That's not a funnel. It's attrition.

Stafford197

TaSheen wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.

Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.

Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.

You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.

Your last paragraph is, I fear, quite likely to actually happen. Right now, there are releases beginning with Galen which I personally have not played (the quest lines I mean) because due to limitations of my own, I simply cannot deal with the end quest story bosses. And in Necrom and Gold Road, I have to be so careful doing anything in overland because they appear to have ramped up the difficulty to where it's just so much more difficult for me that I just don't really go there - I've done a few antiquities and surveys, but having to watch overland as if it's a dungeon is just not for me.

We'll see what happens - but knowing how things have gone after players' requests have been "filled" by the devs but were nowhere close to what was requested, I'm feeling as if once they settle on a (probably across the board) ramping up of overland difficulty, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and Oblivion - which yes, I very much enjoy and still love. But what I love about ESO is it's accessibility to play even with my limitations, and the fact that unlike the single player titles, it's not static - it changes with each release. [Sure, Skyrim and Oblivion have player made mod content outside the graphics and um.... well, can't talk about those mods here.... but there's only so much of it, and once you've done it you don't necessarily repeat it.]

Outright increasing Overland difficulty is something I really hope never happens. My opinion on this whole situation is that it’s too late to change anything fundamental in this game.

With that said, the only solution I think has the potential to satisfy everyone is a Difficulty Slider. Not anything fancy but rather as simple as:

Novice
Same difficulty as current ESO. Potentially reduce the Health of certain non-boss enemies who have over 90K Health, to have a maximum of 90K Health.

Apprentice
Increases Damage Taken by 15%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 15%

Journeyman
Increases Damage Taken by 30%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 30%

Expert
Increases Damage Taken by 50%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 50%

Master
Increases Damage Taken by 75%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 75%

So then you would have all players still in the same Overland world, fighting the same enemies, but some players are heavily debuffed If there’s any additional reward it would be small Experience bonuses of maybe 10% per difficulty level.

*And none of these bonuses would function in any content which are currently affected by the current Normal/Veteran slider. That leaves it strictly to Overland content, so you can play the game exactly as it currently is or purposely debuff your character without having to remove all gear/ignore itemization just to have difficulty.

Imo that’s the best solution rn and would be very easy to do, as it is simply a single buff that applies to the character. No game reworks of any sort.

TaSheen

Stafford197 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.

Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.

Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.

You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.

Your last paragraph is, I fear, quite likely to actually happen. Right now, there are releases beginning with Galen which I personally have not played (the quest lines I mean) because due to limitations of my own, I simply cannot deal with the end quest story bosses. And in Necrom and Gold Road, I have to be so careful doing anything in overland because they appear to have ramped up the difficulty to where it's just so much more difficult for me that I just don't really go there - I've done a few antiquities and surveys, but having to watch overland as if it's a dungeon is just not for me.

We'll see what happens - but knowing how things have gone after players' requests have been "filled" by the devs but were nowhere close to what was requested, I'm feeling as if once they settle on a (probably across the board) ramping up of overland difficulty, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and Oblivion - which yes, I very much enjoy and still love. But what I love about ESO is it's accessibility to play even with my limitations, and the fact that unlike the single player titles, it's not static - it changes with each release. [Sure, Skyrim and Oblivion have player made mod content outside the graphics and um.... well, can't talk about those mods here.... but there's only so much of it, and once you've done it you don't necessarily repeat it.]

Outright increasing Overland difficulty is something I really hope never happens. My opinion on this whole situation is that it’s too late to change anything fundamental in this game.

With that said, the only solution I think has the potential to satisfy everyone is a Difficulty Slider. Not anything fancy but rather as simple as:

Novice
Same difficulty as current ESO. Potentially reduce the Health of certain non-boss enemies who have over 90K Health, to have a maximum of 90K Health.

Apprentice
Increases Damage Taken by 15%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 15%

Journeyman
Increases Damage Taken by 30%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 30%

Expert
Increases Damage Taken by 50%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 50%

Master
Increases Damage Taken by 75%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 75%

So then you would have all players still in the same Overland world, fighting the same enemies, but some players are heavily debuffed If there’s any additional reward it would be small Experience bonuses of maybe 10% per difficulty level.

*And none of these bonuses would function in any content which are currently affected by the current Normal/Veteran slider. That leaves it strictly to Overland content, so you can play the game exactly as it currently is or purposely debuff your character without having to remove all gear/ignore itemization just to have difficulty.

Imo that’s the best solution rn and would be very easy to do, as it is simply a single buff that applies to the character. No game reworks of any sort.

This is what I've been hoping could be done. And I'm not fussed (unlike others) if the rewards are greater! Lordy, they could be millions of gold and I'd STILL never move the slider! Besides, I already HAVE millions of gold....

This seems to me to be the most fair solution, bottom line. I hope it can happen. And btw.... I can't see any reason they couldn't repurpose Battle Spirit to accomplish this for PvE - though of course I'm not a programmer.

Elsonso

.

Stafford197 wrote: »

I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.

I don't think that I would go so far as to say "EGO". This game is not a failure, apparently, according to their publicly announced measures. That at least tells me that customers think they are doing something correct. Keeping overland easier while moving more difficult content to dungeons, and corners of overland, is likely part of that.

This game is not Diablo 4, and it is not Concord.

spartaxoxo

The last chapter did not well. It made players lose interest very quickly. It's because they upped the difficulty by force on side content. They tried to please vet players by giving us the exact opposite of what we asked for, and what we spent a long time requesting them not to do. And to no one's surprise, this approach did not make people like me want to play Gold Road. What it did do was turn away all those casual players that come and go with chapter releases faster than ever before.

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The last chapter did not well. It made players lose interest very quickly. It's because they upped the difficulty by force on side content. They tried to please vet players by giving us the exact opposite of what we asked for, and what we spent a long time requesting them not to do. And to no one's surprise, this approach did not make people like me want to play Gold Road. What it did do was turn away all those casual players that come and go with chapter releases faster than ever before.

I am very much afraid you are correct. And very much MORE afraid of the same doubled or tripled in the future. *sigh*

Stafford197

TaSheen wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.

Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.

Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.

You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.

Your last paragraph is, I fear, quite likely to actually happen. Right now, there are releases beginning with Galen which I personally have not played (the quest lines I mean) because due to limitations of my own, I simply cannot deal with the end quest story bosses. And in Necrom and Gold Road, I have to be so careful doing anything in overland because they appear to have ramped up the difficulty to where it's just so much more difficult for me that I just don't really go there - I've done a few antiquities and surveys, but having to watch overland as if it's a dungeon is just not for me.

We'll see what happens - but knowing how things have gone after players' requests have been "filled" by the devs but were nowhere close to what was requested, I'm feeling as if once they settle on a (probably across the board) ramping up of overland difficulty, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and Oblivion - which yes, I very much enjoy and still love. But what I love about ESO is it's accessibility to play even with my limitations, and the fact that unlike the single player titles, it's not static - it changes with each release. [Sure, Skyrim and Oblivion have player made mod content outside the graphics and um.... well, can't talk about those mods here.... but there's only so much of it, and once you've done it you don't necessarily repeat it.]

Outright increasing Overland difficulty is something I really hope never happens. My opinion on this whole situation is that it’s too late to change anything fundamental in this game.

With that said, the only solution I think has the potential to satisfy everyone is a Difficulty Slider. Not anything fancy but rather as simple as:

Novice
Same difficulty as current ESO. Potentially reduce the Health of certain non-boss enemies who have over 90K Health, to have a maximum of 90K Health.

Apprentice
Increases Damage Taken by 15%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 15%

Journeyman
Increases Damage Taken by 30%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 30%

Expert
Increases Damage Taken by 50%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 50%

Master
Increases Damage Taken by 75%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 75%

So then you would have all players still in the same Overland world, fighting the same enemies, but some players are heavily debuffed If there’s any additional reward it would be small Experience bonuses of maybe 10% per difficulty level.

*And none of these bonuses would function in any content which are currently affected by the current Normal/Veteran slider. That leaves it strictly to Overland content, so you can play the game exactly as it currently is or purposely debuff your character without having to remove all gear/ignore itemization just to have difficulty.

Imo that’s the best solution rn and would be very easy to do, as it is simply a single buff that applies to the character. No game reworks of any sort.

This is what I've been hoping could be done. And I'm not fussed (unlike others) if the rewards are greater! Lordy, they could be millions of gold and I'd STILL never move the slider! Besides, I already HAVE millions of gold....

This seems to me to be the most fair solution, bottom line. I hope it can happen. And btw.... I can't see any reason they couldn't repurpose Battle Spirit to accomplish this for PvE - though of course I'm not a programmer.

Yup just like a PvE Battle Spirit!

We can only hope lol. I would be really happy to see this happen one day

TaSheen

I would love for it to happen. "From your mouth to the dev's ears.... MAKE IT SO!"

disky

I would be happy with a slider that simply increases damage to players and lowers damage from players. They can add additional modifiers to things like stealth detection, in-combat movement speed, resource regen and damage shield effectiveness, which in my opinion would also help, but I'll take whatever I can get.

Elsonso

disky wrote: »

I would be happy with a slider that simply increases damage to players and lowers damage from players.

Even though I doubt we will get anything, I would like the slider to handle both conditions. Make overland way harder at one end and way easier at the other. The latter is the "less annoying overland" mode, which I would set my game to in the first 5 minutes after the servers came back up.

TaSheen

Elsonso wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I would be happy with a slider that simply increases damage to players and lowers damage from players.

Even though I doubt we will get anything, I would like the slider to handle both conditions. Make overland way harder at one end and way easier at the other. The latter is the "less annoying overland" mode, which I would set my game to in the first 5 minutes after the servers came back up.

Me too!

peacenote

Stafford197 wrote: »

This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….

Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?

Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep in mind that suggestions are not always implemented the way the players expect.

I would like to highlight these two statements back-to-back. Speaking only for myself, I view this thread not because I want something to be done, but because I am extremely worried something will be done in a less than ideal way. Views don't always mean the people viewing want a change. That's not a good assumption and frankly, "nothing" being done is the outcome I personally hope for. As someone who lost a lot of what made ESO fun with the implementation of AwA, I'm very concerned ZOS will attempt to compromise with a one-size-fits-all adjustment for the overland difficulty problem and further remove a good portion of ESO's charm and fun.

I will say I haven't yet explored Gold Road so I can't comment on any game change directions there. But I can say as a veteran player who enjoys hard modes in dungeons and raids, I personally would not want overland to get harder as that is where I go to relax. All this would do is increase the time I'd need for my overland activities (like farming leads) because tougher enemies means longer kill times. Time I don't really have. So I may be a bit of a unique viewpoint here, where I have the skills and the gear for a harder overland, but I still don't really want it to change (whereas in general this debate seems to hinge on the fact that many people fear a difficulty increase because then it will be too hard for them).

I have advocated in the past for a slight increase, such that overland evolves with power creep at least, but even that I'm not really in favor of anymore, because the game is so broad and so vast I would argue that overland's initial difficulty and the time it took to go through content made sense, because there was limited content, but now new players or folks leveling new characters kind of need the easy difficulty that exists today to even have a chance of working their way through the content in any kind of reasonable time frame.

There is a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." While I understand that for some of you, you feel overland is "broken," I am afraid changes will come at a cost to those who are enjoying what we have now. And it's extremely unlikely, given the complexity of the situation, that changes will make everyone happy or even most people happy.

TaSheen

peacenote wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….

Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?

Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep in mind that suggestions are not always implemented the way the players expect.

I would like to highlight these two statements back-to-back. Speaking only for myself, I view this thread not because I want something to be done, but because I am extremely worried something will be done in a less than ideal way. Views don't always mean the people viewing want a change. That's not a good assumption and frankly, "nothing" being done is the outcome I personally hope for. As someone who lost a lot of what made ESO fun with the implementation of AwA, I'm very concerned ZOS will attempt to compromise with a one-size-fits-all adjustment for the overland difficulty problem and further remove a good portion of ESO's charm and fun.

I will say I haven't yet explored Gold Road so I can't comment on any game change directions there. But I can say as a veteran player who enjoys hard modes in dungeons and raids, I personally would not want overland to get harder as that is where I go to relax. All this would do is increase the time I'd need for my overland activities (like farming leads) because tougher enemies means longer kill times. Time I don't really have. So I may be a bit of a unique viewpoint here, where I have the skills and the gear for a harder overland, but I still don't really want it to change (whereas in general this debate seems to hinge on the fact that many people fear a difficulty increase because then it will be too hard for them).

I have advocated in the past for a slight increase, such that overland evolves with power creep at least, but even that I'm not really in favor of anymore, because the game is so broad and so vast I would argue that overland's initial difficulty and the time it took to go through content made sense, because there was limited content, but now new players or folks leveling new characters kind of need the easy difficulty that exists today to even have a chance of working their way through the content in any kind of reasonable time frame.

There is a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." While I understand that for some of you, you feel overland is "broken," I am afraid changes will come at a cost to those who are enjoying what we have now. And it's extremely unlikely, given the complexity of the situation, that changes will make everyone happy or even most people happy.

Very well said - extremely so, in fact.

disky

Elsonso wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I would be happy with a slider that simply increases damage to players and lowers damage from players.

Even though I doubt we will get anything, I would like the slider to handle both conditions. Make overland way harder at one end and way easier at the other. The latter is the "less annoying overland" mode, which I would set my game to in the first 5 minutes after the servers came back up.

I don't think there should be an easy mode unless rewards are diminished or removed. If players only want to get through the story, that's perfectly fine, but we have to keep in mind that players will do the easiest thing in a lot of cases if it means they receive the same rewards.

Alternatively, the feature could calculate a reward tier based on the way you select your sliders. For example you select max player damage taken while also enabling minimal player damage dealt, and it evens out the rewards. That sounds like it would probably be more complex than what ZOS would ever want to do though and I would never expect it.

SilverBride

peacenote wrote: »

I have advocated in the past for a slight increase, such that overland evolves with power creep at least, but even that I'm not really in favor of anymore, because the game is so broad and so vast I would argue that overland's initial difficulty and the time it took to go through content made sense, because there was limited content, but now new players or folks leveling new characters kind of need the easy difficulty that exists today to even have a chance of working their way through the content in any kind of reasonable time frame.

This really resonates with me because this is what they have done and it is having negative effects for a lot of players.

• DLC dungeons are harder than base game dungeons and there have been multiple threads asking to separate them in the dungeon finder because of it.
• The World Bosses have gotten increasingly more difficult.
• Dolmens evolved into Geysers then Harrowstorms then Vents and now Incursions that are not only more difficult but longer and drawn out.
• Public Dungeon group events are now as bad as trial Bosses.
• Story Bosses are more difficult with each new chapter to the point that many can no longer complete the zone story because of it.

Overland content HAS gotten more difficult and more than slightly so. As was pointed out by another poster, players are leaving Golden Road faster than any other new chapter. I have also stopped doing anything there because I can no longer enjoy World Bosses or Incursions due to how long and tedious the increased difficulty is making these things.

This trend needs to stop before players start leaving again.

disky

peacenote wrote: »

I would like to highlight these two statements back-to-back. Speaking only for myself, I view this thread not because I want something to be done, but because I am extremely worried something will be done in a less than ideal way. Views don't always mean the people viewing want a change. That's not a good assumption and frankly, "nothing" being done is the outcome I personally hope for. As someone who lost a lot of what made ESO fun with the implementation of AwA, I'm very concerned ZOS will attempt to compromise with a one-size-fits-all adjustment for the overland difficulty problem and further remove a good portion of ESO's charm and fun.

It sounds like you take issue with the way ZOS is currently trying to address overland, meaning the difficulty increases they've made to overland in West Weald. I don't think most people in this thread are looking for this. We want an optional change which shouldn't affect your experience in any way if you choose not to enable it.

Elsonso

peacenote wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….

Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?

Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep in mind that suggestions are not always implemented the way the players expect.

I would like to highlight these two statements back-to-back. Speaking only for myself, I view this thread not because I want something to be done, but because I am extremely worried something will be done in a less than ideal way. Views don't always mean the people viewing want a change. That's not a good assumption and frankly, "nothing" being done is the outcome I personally hope for. As someone who lost a lot of what made ESO fun with the implementation of AwA, I'm very concerned ZOS will attempt to compromise with a one-size-fits-all adjustment for the overland difficulty problem and further remove a good portion of ESO's charm and fun.

Having been on the short end of the stick a couple of times when ZOS has decided to improve the game, I feel this pain. If ZOS does something about overland, there is a good chance that some group of players will be left out.

spartaxoxo

Those changes are what happens when ZoS does not listen to what the playerbase wants and instead gives us what they think is best.

I understand they got burned by Cadwell's Gold and Silver. But they don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water.


Personally, this is why I support a slider. It is what their single player games use and it allowed a wide variety of players enjoy the Elder Scrolls experience. Players of different power levels already exist on the same map. I'm clearly of a different power level than someone who can't beat the same things I can. And guess what? There are also players way stronger than me! There are players than can do things like Godslayer and I cannot.

There's a solution that embraces the Elder Scrolls experience, embraces the different power levels of the playerbase, and embraces that all of us love this game and it's franchise. But the devs are afraid to implement it because for some reason they don't give us the credit that we all understand that we're on different power levels and like where we are. They think they have to some mythical middle ground and force it on us.

But player power varies too widely for that. And rather than solutions that fight against what we want and what type of playerbase we ended up being, they should go ahead and embrace that diversity. Because I for one think it's pretty cool that's there's content for so many different types of players.

Theist_VII

Maybe make a new thread and tag ZOS?

Really feels like they have this one on silent and pinned just to give the illusion that they care about our feedback while responding to none of it.

joergino

This thread exists in order to prevent the creation of a new one. All new threads are instantly locked, which is something I'm really grateful for.