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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Overland Content Feedback Thread
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »The problem before One Tamriel was you would out-level the content if you did take the time to explore and do all the quests. So players were forced to deal with the tedium of doing content designed for players much lower than them. It was so bad players were asking for a way to turn off their experience bar.
That is the exact opposite of what I experienced. I never out leveled anything and I do all the quests in every zone. I ended up leaving because I was stuck and unable to progress because all that was left after Silver and Gold was Craglorn.
I don't see how that was possible, SilverBride. Because I remember out-leveling the zone before I even had a third of it completed. I honestly don't see how anyone who took their time in a zone and did everything in it before One Tamriel could do so without out-leveling it in the process.
And I wasn't alone, either. The forums were filled with threads of people having the same problem. As I mentioned, it was so bad it was a popular request on here that people be allowed to turn off their experience bar.
I didn't see what you experienced either. All I know is players were quitting right and left because of the veteran zones and Craglorn and that drove me away, too.
I'm not talking about the Veteran Zones. I am talking about before that. You were already level 50 when you started doing those.
The problem with the Veteran Zones was you had to grind those ranks and that drove a lot of people away. It killed my first guild in fact and made them all quit. lolEdited by Jeremy on November 5, 2021 10:51PM2 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have 6 across 2 accounts, both PC megaservers. However, it took me over a year to get my first one....0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not talking about the Veteran Zones. I am talking about before that. You were already level 50 when you started doing those.
The problem with the Veteran Zones was you had to grind those ranks and that drove a lot of people away. It killed my first guild in fact and made them all quit. lol
That's twice I misunderstood you today. I get where you are coming from now.
PCNA0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I have 6 across 2 accounts, both PC megaservers. However, it took me over a year to get my first one....
Linear level designs work well for single player RPG games, since you get max level, beat the game, then move on to a different one. For MMORPGs though they just don't work well, since so much of the player base is already at max level. So content really needs to be designed to accommodate the people who are actually playing it. And scaling allows for this, while at the same letting new players enjoy the content as well.Edited by Jeremy on November 5, 2021 11:03PM1 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
You an also, like I said, add high level content to low level zones.Edited by Vhozek on November 5, 2021 11:04PM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.1 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I have 6 across 2 accounts, both PC megaservers. However, it took me over a year to get my first one....
That's the thing, this is a MMORPG where players are expected to keep playing, many for years (even decades) after reaching max level.
Yes, and this isn't my first rodeo.... I spent 7 years in WoW and quit only when Warlords of Draenor turned into something I just had no use for - can't remember what my mains' levels were, 90, 95? I then moved to RIFT, and played through Nightmare Tide, but left in 2016 when Starfall Prophecy was on the horizon. I think my mains in RIFT were 70 or close to it.
I literally spend years playing any game I've ever started. Whether single player or MMO.... Oh, except for Baldur's Gate II and I'm not going into the reasons why with that game. I've already been here 3.5 years, and I'm not planning on leaving (well, unless overland gets forced harder to the point where it won't be fun much less doable for me....)1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.Edited by Jeremy on November 5, 2021 11:13PM1 -
Indigogo✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.7 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
Then don't apply the changes to dungeons and trials.
Lol. Is this real?
What do you usually do at max levels in MMOs? End game content? OkEdited by Vhozek on November 5, 2021 11:16PM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
That's a much better idea for the process than massive instant change.0 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭I think we also need to take into account, when discussing ESO pre OneT update, the available sets and items we had and our power ability.
We had very limited sets compared to what we have at our disposal now, and we've even had potions added and extras. Back then yes, I could understand a majority against it, because yes it was actually really difficult and we had to grind our ranks out. Now we have access to sticker book, reconning, a million extra sets, half of which are overpowered, and people are telling me that there is no way they could do the content, ON TOP of their power creep? We have constant events to boost our exp, we even have multiple arenas/places to grind new toons in under an hour, it took me a YEAR to level up my first character - This last event I levelled one from 14 in less than 2hrs and most of her skill lines and abilities to max. I just don't buy that argument you are making about it being to hard with the games system now. The game has been made so much easier over time to the point we have handicapped player advancement. We need to take all of it into account when looking at this issue. Back then we didn't have all this extra stuff, and now we do, it's hardly the same disadvantage we were at.
The only reason I am so passionate about this is because I love this game, I never want to leave. I've already had to mostly abandon PVP because of it's current playable state. I don't want to leave PVE too. I have spent money on this game, because I believe in it, not because I just 'want the fancy emote', I believe in this world we have, I cherish it so much, it means alot to me that I can explore it and enjoy it, so I need to speak up when I feel as though it's not happening anymore, if it was just me then sure, I'd shut up and go to my corner - But it's not just me. There would be more feedback on this as well, but a quarter of the playerbase doesn't even realize these forums exist, and when they find out they gotta go thru a bunch of hoops to get an account they don't bother - Why expend so much effort to be told you're just complaining?
Often times when running veteran trials/dungeons, I want to take a break and go do some questing with my group - But they never want to because there is "no point, it's boring". I ask why? "Because everything just dies, what am I doing, running to markers? Just too much time, no value." And that's been at least 12 people I've spoken to personally. Add in all those hundreds of people I run past everyday in game, I dont know them, I don't know their opinions, but surely those 12 I know aren't the only ones. These are people that say they would quest, but there's no point in it because their not actually doing anything. They want to enjoy the story, but it's hard when legitimately there is no danger (and some of these people are roleplayers, whom the larger community mock. Even some of them feel this way and I argue that roleplayers are the backbone of this game.)
I think alot of this push back is valid when taking into account how the game used to be. But it is simply not that beast anymore. Zenimax have given us so many extra things to aid us on our adventure we are essentially Dora the Explorer and the Map now.I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.10 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »I have 6 across 2 accounts, both PC megaservers. However, it took me over a year to get my first one....
That's the thing, this is a MMORPG where players are expected to keep playing, many for years (even decades) after reaching max level.
Yes, and this isn't my first rodeo.... I spent 7 years in WoW and quit only when Warlords of Draenor turned into something I just had no use for - can't remember what my mains' levels were, 90, 95? I then moved to RIFT, and played through Nightmare Tide, but left in 2016 when Starfall Prophecy was on the horizon. I think my mains in RIFT were 70 or close to it.
I literally spend years playing any game I've ever started. Whether single player or MMO.... Oh, except for Baldur's Gate II and I'm not going into the reasons why with that game. I've already been here 3.5 years, and I'm not planning on leaving (well, unless overland gets forced harder to the point where it won't be fun much less doable for me....)
Don't worry, I have no intention of trying to force a harder overland on anyone.
I would like to see a Veteran Overland made available for experienced players who find the current challenge too easy. But it needs to be optional, the same way Veteran Dungeons are.
3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
Then don't apply the changes to dungeons and trials.
Lol. Is this real?
What do you usually do at max levels in MMOs? End game content? Ok
If they didn't apply scaling to the dungeons then they would have remained at lower levels and unsuited for high level characters also. It's the same as the overland in that respect. So I'm not sure what I said that has you confused.
Anyway: it seems you only consider doing dungeons and trials as activities that should be scaled for level 50 characters. So we just have a fundamental disagreement there, because I believe level 50 characters ought to be able to enjoy questing too.Edited by Jeremy on November 5, 2021 11:25PM3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.Edited by Jeremy on November 5, 2021 11:31PM2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Franchise408 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Blackbird_V wrote: »That was clearly sarcasm what that player put. Literally sarcasm.Franchise408 wrote: ».
4. If any of the above mentioned compromises are too much, then I would prefer to just see a wide spread increase in difficulty across the entire game and be made mandatory, not optional. Not changing anything is unacceptable to me, so if the above mentioned (or other) compromises are too much, then just increase the difficulty of the game to engage people who have been playing for years. This is my last preference tho, but it's better than just simply not addressing the issue.
No. It was not. It was their last preference and they stated they hoped it did not come to that, but they would rather it be forced than not have any of their solutions.
How is that difference than yourself, SilverBride, and others, trying to *force* me into easy overland?
Where did I state I'm trying to force you into anything? I don't agree with your solutions =/= I think no changes should be made to address this issue.
My solutions were (intended to all be done)
Give Debuffs to the player they can use in some way
Add challenge banners to story bosses
Add more content like the roaming bosses to the map to add threat near story zones
And we have explained ad nauseum why those solutions do nothing to address the issue.
No. They do address the issue, you just don't like them.2 -
Indigogo✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, has anyone defined or agreed upon what vOL is yet, or is it still an undefined thought that will never happen?1 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
Then don't apply the changes to dungeons and trials.
Lol. Is this real?
What do you usually do at max levels in MMOs? End game content? Ok
If they didn't apply scaling to the dungeons then they would have remained at lower levels and unsuited for high level characters also. It's the same as the overland in that respect. So I'm not sure what I said that has you confused.
Anyway: it seems you only consider doing dungeons and trials as activities that should be scaled for level 50 characters. So we just have a fundamental disagreement there, because I believe level 50 characters ought to be able to enjoy questing too.
Dungeons and trials would just remain the same though. This is a talk about overland. Why would I want it to affect that content too?
Sure, level 50's can quest and shut off the OPTIONAL scaling we're asking for.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
It's really not though.
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.Edited by Jeremy on November 5, 2021 11:38PM1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
Yup. And it would kill work on anything else for a good year if they were to do that most likely. They said it would take 3 months just to shorten the length between rounds in DSA, no way an overhaul of the entire game isn't asking for at least a year of work.4 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭So, has anyone defined or agreed upon what vOL is yet, or is it still an undefined thought that will never happen?
The exact definition is not needed. We are spitballing ideas to get traction on our perceived issue, we are not a guild or a community on discord or anything, we have nothing organized, though it is an interesting point, maybe we should be
. It is for the devs to decide if it is worthy of hearing or not, and what constitutes change and doesn't. It appears that most of us on the vOL side are happy with optional toggle/difficulty meter for us. I would say the close second is at least challenge banners for bosses. I think even just one step in a direction towards us would be nice, and I could live with that, a show of good faith or something. But thats just me personally, others may feel differently
I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.8 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work..." - Rich LambertPCNA3 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
It's really not though.
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
Well.... we don't know that. We don't know what the game structure and database etc. actually entail. We can suppose - but we don't know because the developers (as with most game devs) haven't given us any actual data.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
Then don't apply the changes to dungeons and trials.
Lol. Is this real?
What do you usually do at max levels in MMOs? End game content? Ok
If they didn't apply scaling to the dungeons then they would have remained at lower levels and unsuited for high level characters also. It's the same as the overland in that respect. So I'm not sure what I said that has you confused.
Anyway: it seems you only consider doing dungeons and trials as activities that should be scaled for level 50 characters. So we just have a fundamental disagreement there, because I believe level 50 characters ought to be able to enjoy questing too.
Dungeons and trials would just remain the same though. This is a talk about overland. Why would I want it to affect that content too?
Sure, level 50's can quest and shut off the OPTIONAL scaling we're asking for.
I thought we were debating the merits of scaling content to level 50. That's why I brought up the fact that dungeons (which you approved of) were scaled to level 50 in much the same way the overland was scaled to level 50. The point I was trying to make is that scaling is a good thing generally. We just need an optional Veteran Version of the landscape content the same way we have that option when it comes to dungeons.
I have to head out, so if I don't answer you back that is why. But you're right in the sense dungeons and trials would be unaffected by what I'm asking for here. So if you thought I was suggesting otherwise you misunderstood me.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
It's really not though.
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
Well.... we don't know that. We don't know what the game structure and database etc. actually entail. We can suppose - but we don't know because the developers (as with most game devs) haven't given us any actual data.
What would the database have to do with it?
It would be the same assets used in both zones. No new graphics or scripts would have to be used. Only a slight change in how enemies are scaled. That is all. A simple numeric change to the code.
Anyway, I have to go. ^^ We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
Edited by Jeremy on November 5, 2021 11:51PM0 -
Indigogo✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
It's really not though.
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
See man this is what I mean with the pro crowd shooting themselves in the foot.
I'm advocating for pro and you're arguing that any option that isn't a total change isn't enough.
While ignoring the many VoL requests that enemies not just have increased stats, but more challenging mechanics.
Just further making it look like no matter what they do, they can't make everyone happy with a vet overland... so why bother?
4 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work..." - Rich Lambert
Just because something is a tonne of work, doesn't mean it's not worth it in the long run. Another thing to take into consideration.I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.5 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cp2100
I love the fact that everyone explodes when I am near. Add whatever people ask as optional difficulty, no extra rewards or perfected overland sets. Just for fun of it.
When I was level 11 on first chat I was bullied by clannfears and nix-ox. Now it is payback time. Overland content is not easy, you just learned to play.
I am in same boat in TESIII. First kwama gives me hell, now I am literal superman flying around annihilating everyone. I am nowhere near that OP in ESO overland.
Also, please remove "swarming" enemies.
3 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
Which is exactly what my main proposal has been throughout this entire thread.0 -
Ravensilver✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm still not clear on what is being asked for here.
On the one hand, people have posted that they aren't doing the quests because they aren't 'engaging'.
But then again, they're asking for harder mobs.
So... not a more engaging and involved story, but simply more and harder mobs, so they can spend more time bashing more and harder mobs.
Or are they asking for the quests to be longer, more involved, requiring more effort, preferably without quest markers? (And watch zone chat explode with various versions of "where is this, where is that, I can't find x, why is y not where it's supposed to be, can you take me by the hand and show me, where are the markers, there were markers before, this is so frustrating and difficult...".
Or will a vOL just be hordes of WB-lvl mobs that you have to fight through?
Where does vOL start? With the wolves and bears that roam the countryside? With the quest endboss?
Can I switch in the middle of the quest? Start normal and switch for the endboss?
Can I re-do the quests: once on normal and once on vet? If not, why not? I can re-do Dungeons, once on normal and once on vet.
How 'engaging' should a trip through the countryside be? Will there be new quests that are only available in vOL? Will there be new enemies, only in vOL? What kind? Roaming groups of WB-bandits? Invasions?
I don't think 'engaging' will be satisfied by simply upping the health and mechanics of mobs. Constantly bashing your way through uber-strength mobs every two steps gets boring after a while, too...5