State of the game's overland

Aliniel

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

Personally, I strongly disagree with extra rewards for higher difficulty overland content. People should not be pressured into increasing the difficulty. Same way as when you play offline games.

Araxyte

Aliniel wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

Personally, I strongly disagree with extra rewards for higher difficulty overland content. People should not be pressured into increasing the difficulty. Same way as when you play offline games.

Same drop table as normal mode, just higher chance of better loot in hard mode. Scrap the extra achievements and titles if necessary. Just give something for anyone wanting a bit more of a challenge. It would feel empty facing a higher challenge with nothing in return.

On a side note, extra difficulty could come from non-combat encounters such as better puzzles in quests that take some time to figure out.

Aliniel

Araxyte wrote: »

Aliniel wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

Personally, I strongly disagree with extra rewards for higher difficulty overland content. People should not be pressured into increasing the difficulty. Same way as when you play offline games.

Same drop table as normal mode, just higher chance of better loot in hard mode. Scrap the extra achievements and titles if necessary. Just give something for anyone wanting a bit more of a challenge. It would feel empty facing a higher challenge with nothing in return.

On a side note, extra difficulty could come from non-combat encounters such as better puzzles in quests that take some time to figure out.

Well, if there's no extra loot, just higher chance for items from the normal loot table, I think it could work.

But as soon as you put something extra, people could feel pressured into it.

Ippokrates

tonyblack wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Simple - if they do not try a content designed for challenge, they should not complain about more difficult overland content.

Which is not so easy btw. If you are pursuing motifs for trade, sometimes it could be quite challenging to handle solo some DLC bosses, Harrowstorms or even Craglorn group dungs if you are doing it in reasonable time on more than one toons.

But if you never tried that, sure, it is far better to complain that those particular goblins or skeletons should have x times more hp and dmg, because than the challenge would be real! ^^

So if i want any semblance of meaningful combat I should stay in same dungeons and trials? (which are group only btw) Experiencing stories and questing out of the question for anyone who bothered to do progression for said hard content? Kinda selfish if you ask me.

And yet we have threads here on this forum claiming that dungeons should have story mode because they are too hard to solo and to nerf Vateshran, because game should be harder unless it shouldn't be... -_-

I know that TES games embrace an idea of powergaming so players should feel good about their personal skills but this won't work in MMO where you are surrounded by other people. People with different skills, background and attitude, so some of them are really annoying. You cannot create game that would be perfect for everyone.

So current resolution we have in ESO, where each type of content can offer a different level of challenge is the best solution. And if you really want THE Challenge, you can do DLC dung solo. Bah, there are people that can manage to solo Asylum Sanctorium.

But seriously, stop those constant complaining that the random bandit should be comparable to... What exactly? Dung boss or miniboss? From base game or DLC? Or maybe trial trashmob? Normal or vet? You didn't even specify what do you want but you expect that zos would magically know how much difficult boss you want?

Well, they already make such content in Craglorn and tried to do in Murkmire AND PEOPLE COMPLAINED IT IS TOO HARD! ^^

Bah, even today some complaing that one boss in Murkmire is too hard to solo ^^

So yeah, i am selfish cause i want the devs to devote their time and effort to develop some new content, instead of working forward and back on already released stuff to satisfy people that cannot specify their demands, but would always complain that their subjective feelings are not satisfied. This is never ending story

Ippokrates

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

You can always go to Cyro and fight with mobs under battlespirit.

Harry_Toes

drsalvation wrote: »

Let's be honest, story modes in this game aren't nearly as engaging as they should be,

"As they should be"?

Nope.

If the game isn't hard enough for you, strip all the precious dungeon gear off your CP1000+ character and play through with basic (no set bonus, non-upgraded, unenchanted) white gear.

If you REALLY want a challenge, do it with level 1 gear. And for an even bigger challenge - do it with 0 CP points allocated.

There you go. "Hard mode" enabled.

Mrtoobyy

I second every suggestion that increases overland difficulty. Stripping down naked etc it's really not the same cause we still wanna use our sets and stuff.

Aliniel

Ippokrates wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

You can always go to Cyro and fight with mobs under battlespirit.

So, in order to have more engaging content, we should go to Cyrodiil?
Try it with Deadlands and let me know how it went.

Ippokrates

Aliniel wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

You can always go to Cyro and fight with mobs under battlespirit.

So, in order to have more engaging content, we should go to Cyrodiil?
Try it with Deadlands and let me know how it went.

Already tried, and wandering bosses are great! World bosses too, especially when one of them was bugged and invisible xd

casparian

Harry_Toes wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

Let's be honest, story modes in this game aren't nearly as engaging as they should be,

"As they should be"?

Nope.

If the game isn't hard enough for you, strip all the precious dungeon gear off your CP1000+ character and play through with basic (no set bonus, non-upgraded, unenchanted) white gear.

If you REALLY want a challenge, do it with level 1 gear. And for an even bigger challenge - do it with 0 CP points allocated.

There you go. "Hard mode" enabled.

Have you actually tried this? Because I have, and I can confirm it does not in fact make quest bosses challenging or interesting. Not to mention that it's actively not fun to have to manually undo all your progression just to tweak a fight's difficulty.

Seriously this suggestion has been made in every single challenging-overland thread I've seen for years, and it has always been an ignorant suggestion that misses the point. People need to stop making it. If the solution were really something that any individual player could implement on their own, do you really think we would have had four straight years of regular threads asking for this?

More generally, I get the feeling that a lot of people take this topic personally. Look, no one who asks for a challenging overland option is trying to say they're an eLitE GaMEr because they want quest bosses to be harder. No one is saying you are a bad gamer, should feel bad, or have less skill if you like overland the way it is. This isn't about you.

Kiralyn2000

Aliniel wrote: »

I'm actually curious. When does the scaling stop currently? Is it at level 0, a.k.a. CP 0? Or does it go up to 50CP, 150CP, 160CP?

The entire world is CP160, and players are scaled up to that. With low-level players getting a boost to make up for the fact they have no skills/passives/gear/etc. (this is part of what leads to the feeling, for some people, that they're "getting weaker" as they go up in level - a low level character has all three stats boosted; a higher level player is switching over to just having their stat points allocated, with less/no boost to the others.)

BlueRaven

Vet overland won’t get much use and is a waste of money compared to the effort in making them. We just saw that with the Halloween event where player participation in the special crow boss wained considerably after a day or two.

Making easier versions of trials, solo arenas, and dlc dungeons, (also a pve version of IC) on the other hand might bring in a better return on investment.

Hallothiel

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

Ah, wanting better rewards. Was waiting for this to come up.

Surely the whole point is the challenge, not the reward?

Parasaurolophus

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vet overland won’t get much use and is a waste of money compared to the effort in making them. We just saw that with the Halloween event where player participation in the special crow boss wained considerably after a day or two.

Making easier versions of trials, solo arenas, and dlc dungeons, (also a pve version of IC) on the other hand might bring in a better return on investment.

Maybe just because the awards were not worth it? I did this several times and the fight seemed very enjoyable to me. But I can get 3 skulls in a faster way.

Ippokrates

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vet overland won’t get much use and is a waste of money compared to the effort in making them. We just saw that with the Halloween event where player participation in the special crow boss wained considerably after a day or two.

Making easier versions of trials, solo arenas, and dlc dungeons, (also a pve version of IC) on the other hand might bring in a better return on investment.

Maybe just because the awards were not worth it? I did this several times and the fight seemed very enjoyable to me. But I can get 3 skulls in a faster way.

Actually you can't because of cooldown ;p

Crow is the fastest way to earn 3 skulls

colossalvoids

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Simple - if they do not try a content designed for challenge, they should not complain about more difficult overland content.

Which is not so easy btw. If you are pursuing motifs for trade, sometimes it could be quite challenging to handle solo some DLC bosses, Harrowstorms or even Craglorn group dungs if you are doing it in reasonable time on more than one toons.

But if you never tried that, sure, it is far better to complain that those particular goblins or skeletons should have x times more hp and dmg, because than the challenge would be real! ^^

So not engaging 90% of the game they've bought is fine then? Bosses laying on the ground before their "spoopy" phrases are ended and the threat to the whole world was a joke all along. It's just getting old pretty fast even with immense interest in tes lore.

You're trying to shoehorn every request into the same box and propose people to go same routes which isn't what they want at all. Surely they can sit at storms or wbs all day long hoping that no one comes (rip on pc) but that's same reservation route as forcing them all into dungeon or trial bubble because that's the only content that could be difficult out there. Anyway people want and ask for different solutions, it's not all about your vet overland, some are pretty simple ones as quest main bosses having difficulty enablers / setting etc. This alone would eliminate most of the difficulty requests to basic content.

And if I cleared all HM's and stuff in this game it makes my feedback more valuable on that subject? Come on. Most people I know that are in the same boat are just bored and have no hope for the game left (if they're playing even anymore). You won't see much of their feedback in any thread related to that issue.

Well, if beating overland mobs is a 90% of your gameplay, i think we already have an answer.

And no, i do not force anyone to anything. In fact, i am thinking about all those people who are playing mainly to gather resources or simply collect book or skyshards for their new toon, that do not have skills or equipment. You are the one that want to make live a difficult for them.

Seriously, start doing vet content and then you will come back with different attitude.

I could only advice reading before replying.

Amottica

drsalvation wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

BTW, trials and dungeons are designed to run multiple times. Since you brought up the trials, I do sincerely ask, have you cleared all the trials on vet HM, including the latest? Have you cleared all the arenas on veteran difficulty?

yeah, I cleared up vAA which was fun, but I did it because I wanted resilient yokeda gear. Then we went for nCR, and that's when I realized my main motivation for them was for the cool gear that would be useful for other trials.
That's about it.
The gear I farmed, the motivation for me to get stronger was just for trials, as tanking is useless and highly nerfed in PvP, and you can run the main stories completely naked (I've found that new characters, lvl 3 and such tend to deal much more damage than my 50/900 CP mains).

Trials are glorified gear farms in the end, which are only used for other gear farm- Trials and dungeons.
There's nothing else that tests those sets you farmed, so what's the point of farming them? You don't need them for the story, and they're pretty useless in PvP, so you just end up running the same things for the sake of not letting your cool new gear go to waste.

It seems the edit of what you quoted did not go well as your comment was hidden in the history.

I respect your opinion that trials are merely "glorified gear farms" but the players that run it over and over well after they have more than enough gear would disagree. Granted, these are the top players of the server and they are very competitive.

I am still interested in if you have cleared all trials in HM and especially both solo arenas on Vet. After all this is some of the challenging content Zenimax has in the game for those interested in something more difficult than overland.

Regardless, I have already posted that Zenimax has made it clear their current model is fabulous for business and they are not interested in making overland difficult as a result. That is the important message.

I had to fix the edit issue of what I quoted as it was hiding my post as well.

Muttsmutt

i fully stand behind one tamriel. it may have brought on new issues, but the other issues it solved were much greater than "muh overland is easy". there is so way to make overland content scale in difficulty in an MMO without introducing a plethora of problems, or frustration, or the bullet sponge approach.

with that being said though,
i fully support a veteran option for overland content, toggled from the map or something.

however, i don't know how feasible this is, or whether it's worth it, since it would likely mean there would have to be two overworld instances, something that goes against the idea of one tamriel to some extent.

overland is easy.
get over it.

Ippokrates

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Simple - if they do not try a content designed for challenge, they should not complain about more difficult overland content.

Which is not so easy btw. If you are pursuing motifs for trade, sometimes it could be quite challenging to handle solo some DLC bosses, Harrowstorms or even Craglorn group dungs if you are doing it in reasonable time on more than one toons.

But if you never tried that, sure, it is far better to complain that those particular goblins or skeletons should have x times more hp and dmg, because than the challenge would be real! ^^

So not engaging 90% of the game they've bought is fine then? Bosses laying on the ground before their "spoopy" phrases are ended and the threat to the whole world was a joke all along. It's just getting old pretty fast even with immense interest in tes lore.

You're trying to shoehorn every request into the same box and propose people to go same routes which isn't what they want at all. Surely they can sit at storms or wbs all day long hoping that no one comes (rip on pc) but that's same reservation route as forcing them all into dungeon or trial bubble because that's the only content that could be difficult out there. Anyway people want and ask for different solutions, it's not all about your vet overland, some are pretty simple ones as quest main bosses having difficulty enablers / setting etc. This alone would eliminate most of the difficulty requests to basic content.

And if I cleared all HM's and stuff in this game it makes my feedback more valuable on that subject? Come on. Most people I know that are in the same boat are just bored and have no hope for the game left (if they're playing even anymore). You won't see much of their feedback in any thread related to that issue.

Well, if beating overland mobs is a 90% of your gameplay, i think we already have an answer.

And no, i do not force anyone to anything. In fact, i am thinking about all those people who are playing mainly to gather resources or simply collect book or skyshards for their new toon, that do not have skills or equipment. You are the one that want to make live a difficult for them.

Seriously, start doing vet content and then you will come back with different attitude.

I could only advice reading before replying.

You cannot read something that isn't there, and i do not see details of this content you are fighting for. No hp & dmg brackets, no mechanics ideas. Some "sliders" with no info what happen when other player would come, and as you said in the same comment - it is not possible to solo worldboss cause on PC someone always would come.

So many questions, so few (zero) answers...

Ergele

preach

Eshkerigal

Combat in eso is boring. Fighting mobs during quests and in delves... meh. I usually skip everything, just run trough quest instances, delves, public dungeons to kill boss. I don't want to be forced to kill them.

Combat in eso is not boring because mobs and bosses are easy to kill. It's boring, because there are not much diferences between classes with the same roles (mag dd, or stam dd, or healers). It's boring because most fights look almost the same:
- start fight
- hit boss few times
- boss is immune, so kill adds
- hit boss few times...
- repeat.

Increasing boss hp or boss dmg will not help here. Fights will be longer and more annoying but not challenging after all.

Toxic_Hemlock

I just wanted to add this little nugget I though about while I waited for the game to come back online:

Ask yourself this. Can you do overland even if it is to easy for you?

If your answer is yes, then good for you....

Remember though that some of us cannot competently do trials, most (all?) DLC dungeons, arenas etc, even at the current difficulty.

So basically you are saying to players like myself that you want to remove all the fun I have in game so as to make it more of a challenge for you to do. As I have said in the past I quit games I can no longer play.

Tell me why I would pay for ESO+ or even bother playing ESO anymore if this were to happen?

Araxyte

Hallothiel wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.

Ah, wanting better rewards. Was waiting for this to come up.

Surely the whole point is the challenge, not the reward?

Ah, a snarky reply. Was waiting for this to come up.

Most challenges have rewards. If the right balance could be found such as a slightly increased chance of better drops than from normal mode, then it would add a bit more spice to questing without infuriating others. Add some RNG element to it with access to the same drop table. There doesn't have to be rewards for hard mode, would just be a nice touch to get a little something for it.

Parasaurolophus

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I just wanted to add this little nugget I though about while I waited for the game to come back online:

Ask yourself this. Can you do overland even if it is to easy for you?

If your answer is yes, then good for you....

Remember though that some of us cannot competently do trials, most (all?) DLC dungeons, arenas etc, even at the current difficulty.

So basically you are saying to players like myself that you want to remove all the fun I have in game so as to make it more of a challenge for you to do. As I have said in the past I quit games I can no longer play.

Tell me why I would pay for ESO+ or even bother playing ESO anymore if this were to happen?

We ask for an option. But ... I still want to ask you. I play almost from the start. I complete every new dlc in 3-4 days. I carefully complete all quests, read all dialogues, books and notes. I just have no idea what to do next in overland. Any new dlc dies very quickly.
What do you do when playing overland? How long does it take you to play? How quickly do you complete new dlc? I'm just interested in looking at this experience so that I can better understand it. Because for me every new dlc is a disappointment.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi all. As others have mentioned, there are other existing threads on this topic. If you wish to continue talking about this, please using existing threads.

While we understand the want to continue discussing this topic, we have gotten several messages about creating repeating threads around this topic is creating a negative experience for others on the forum. Additionally, having multiple threads about a single topic breaks valuable feedback that we may end up missing. We will be closing this thread down to keep the overland issue contained to one thread.

You are more than welcome to continue the conversation in the linked thread above. We will do this with other threads as it makes sense as well. Thanks for your understanding.