State of the game's overland

Toxic_Hemlock

Every week there is a new thread on this, and every week I basically post the same thing...

Don't turn the entire overland into Craglorn. You may like it but I can guarantee you many ESO+ subscribers like myself will just leave and the world will become a much emptier place eventually.

Just go find another more difficult game if that is your idea of fun and leave my casual questing alone.

Thanks.

spinality

One idea that I don't recall seeing seems like a simple enough concept: add fighting complexity for high-rank players. If you have 1K CP, say, then make certain mobs want to attack you by preference, and make certain random critters appear and harass you while you're fighting. You could get some extra achievements and perks and abilities as a result of this. I'd think a system-wide change like this wouldn't require changes to specific locales; but then instead of running into skeevers and spiders you'd be more likely to get liches who are going to chase you in particular. When lower-level characters see this, they'll think "I want to do that."

I also don't think interest only comes from fighting complexity/difficulty. I've always been a terrible fighter, and despite being a solo player have trouble soloing many tough WBs. I don't want them to be harder. I want them to be more interesting.

Another example: Tamriel is full of areas that we can't reach. We can see them, we can see all the trees and hills and rocks that have been created, and occasionally we can find a path that accidentally lets us in, and then we get to explore this cool hidden place. In Skyrim and Oblivion, we had a lot more athletic challenge opportunities for climbing into awkward places, and would spend hours tackling weird geography and finding hidden chests. I'd think much of Tamriel could be made accessible/explorable without radical engine/map changes, just a little different character movement and terrain definition. If I could spend more time exploring I'd be doing that in preference to much of the random boss fighting I currently do.

Another example: There's a lot of content that requires group play. Those of us who don't do much group play wind up missing out on the content and the sets available. Adding difficulty here hasn't made it more interesting, but instead just cut off those parts of the game.

Anyway, this is just another perspective. I've been in since beta too, yet despite that I'm pretty clueless about a lot of fighting mechanics and optimization. I'm one of the players that groups get mad at because I'm not optimized and rotating and quick. But I still play most days (solo PvE). FWIW.

drsalvation

Asha_11_ESO wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

What do you guys think would help make the stories feel more engaging with current game mechanics that won't revolve around adding dialogue?

This is just kinda how it goes in every game. You start out an under-geared newb. You get to learn every tiny thing about the game, all the mechanics, how your class works. It becomes second nature. You get bloated with gear/power. Sometimes the developers dumb stuff down too, mostly, i think, to cater to the changing demands in the player base. So then, only the hardest content in the game feels sufficiently challenging. Unfortunately many can't or don't want to, participate in group content, so are left with pve to try and sate our jaded in-game selves.

Maybe you could run around in overland wearing greens with no cps.

Thanks for actually answering the question I had instead of bashing why vet overland doesn't work.
Unfortunately, even running naked with fists is still easy enough, and the problem is that it doesn't give you an incentive to try out your vet gear from trials and dungeons in places that aren't...well, trials and dungeons lol.

If I could completely change the aspect of story-telling I'd go with a better RPG approach like in skyrim, where even tho whatever dialogue option you choose doesn't change the outcome but at least lets you role play. As I said, dialogues are extremely linear, something as simple as telling Eveli that she looks bad in that dress and her replying with some snarky comeback and then continuing the main dialogue would be enough, but that requires voice acting. So since I can't play a character and we're forced to the same dialogue options, best we can do is focus on combat.
Now as I mentioned, maybe veteran overland wasn't a good way to word it out because they're right, overland includes world bosses, delves, and trash mobs. So I'll switch my wording: Veteran Story mode, maybe then the story could be more engaging, since it makes the so-called threats be actual threats, now you'd put your gear from veteran trials on the test, now you'd be chugging those 900 tri-stat pots you've been getting from dailies.
It's the ludonarrative dissonance that ruins story mode for me and makes me want to rush it out. I had as much as a challenge from Molag Bal himself as I did from that random boss in a random delve. The problem is that you can only defeat molag bal once with each character, but you can beat those random delve bosses over and over again.
Since we can play story mode only once, I want it to be a memorable experience, but it all falls flat, and story content is the majority of the game. Repeatable trials and dungeons turn into gear farms, and pvp doesn't really change and is now just a lame dark convergence spam fest.

Chaos2088

Think they will look into this at some point as it has been requested so much by the community.

Only thing I would say is that needs to be a toggle of some sorts, like you have for dungeons. Would be unfair for some people if they just wanted the game as it is, also on the flip side, If don’t wanna do overland vet then don’t toggle it.

Anumaril

I couldn't agree more about overland content being so easy. But I have to disagree that One Tamriel's level scaling is inherently bad because of it. I think level scaling is brilliant and much more realistic. It sucks me into the world more because why would a fierce bear in one part of the map die in a single hit, while an equally fierce bear in another part of the map tear me to shreads? They're the same bloody animal.

What I think went wrong with One Tamriel is how they don't take into account the scaling of player power OUTSIDE of levelling. Once you hit max level you start to get champion points, which increases your power immensely, but the One Tamriel level scaling doesn't account for this. As you gain more skill points you also gain a BUNCH of passives and new abilities, but One Tamriel's level scaling doesn't account for this increase in power. As you sink more into endgame content you'll be doing Trials, vet dungeons, and arenas, getting yourself powerful items and sets, but One Tamriel's level scaling once more doesn't account for this ballooning of your character's power.

Because OT doesn't account for literally anything outside of what your character's level is, everything becomes stupidly easy by the time you hit max level. I've actually made a special character on my account FOR questing an overland content where he only uses bad armour (white, green, blue; level 20 gear when he's max level), doesn't use any champion points that give player power, doesn't use passives that give player power, etc. Even with him I still find that questing is easy, but at least it's more of a challenge, and I occasionally will die and have to try a different tactic with certain questing bosses.

I can only hope that one day ZOS will had a veteran overland mode that can be toggled where the scaling is adjusted and things are more difficult.

Fermian

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

One Tamriel came about out of necessity. The game was dying of extreme measures weren’t taken. The VR/CP systems were originally designed in tandem with initial game development but didn’t make it in time. By the time it started rolling out the issues of zones with varying difficulty/hard instances/tough combat became apparent.

Yes you had those that enjoyed it but the vast majority of players just stopped. And to this day Matt and the other developers have toyed with adding more difficult overland encounters. Harder world bosses, Harrowstorms, dragons, more mechanics in story mode, etc.

However there was clear evidence of engagement falloff for players. So as Matt said difficulty was put into World Bosses, trials, dungeons, etc.

The overland is for everyone to enjoy with simple and sometimes engaging stories. I think all of us enjoyed a number of them. Stibbons, Heem-Jas, The Traveling Acting Troupe out of Summerset. Difficulty added isn’t needed.

Having a veteran mode is not the opposite of one tamriel. And group content in overland is not the same as hard single player content.
The issue is that new players have the hardest overland experience, while an vet player just cant die.

Jeremy

drsalvation wrote: »

Let's be honest, story modes in this game aren't nearly as engaging as they should be, there are many factors, the cartoonish animations don't convey the dread and everything that's at stake, the voice acting does what it has to do but not enough to engage you (I always find myself skipping to the next dialogue as soon as I'm done reading), it's really not as engaging, the lack of any type of role-playing on this MMO-ROLE PLAYING GAME isn't as engaging either. I play as imperial and for some reason my character is supporting the daggerfall covenant by killing imperial spies. I can't even role-play as an *** by telling Eveli Sharp-Arrow that she looks terrible in that dress since you only get one dialogue choice, and the only choices you have is to pick which main character is going to die. But I can deal with all of that, I'm ok with it, I don't expect a world-changing quest choice in an MMORPG...

But I think the main reason as to why story mode is not as engaging is because ever since the danged rebalance patch of One Tamriel, everything has been completely dull.
Turns out the rats you had trouble with when you first started the game are just as strong as you now that you're champion lvl 1000 AND they drop the best resources for the best armors now...
But more importantly, story mode tells us about terrible villains that are supposed to be fearful, and yet, you mow them down like generic overland creatures, the bosses you're supposed to be afraid of. And because they're in public areas, you get there, a player already killed him, and then you gotta wait until the boss revives, and now it's your turn to kill him, and then a player who just got there has to wait for his turn to kill the boss, hurray, it's a childish haunted house where everyone gets their turn at the predictable jumpscare!
I remember the first days of the game when I was terrified of the brothers of strife, they were tough to beat at my current level, that was one of the reasons the story mode was engaging for us.

Nowadays, if you want to truly test your builds, there are dungeons, trials, arenas, and pvp. That's neat and all, but there's also a problem: There's nothing pushing you to do them at all, it feels more like a theme park where you are just eager to go on all the rides.
That said, I don't think the story mode should direct you to dungeons or trials, but I DO believe that this game DESPERATELY NEEDS A VETERAN MODE FOR STORY MODES!

I hate PvP, it's a number/math game, whatever encounter you have with other players is already rigged from the start and your gear does all your fighting for you, dungeons and trials are cool but because there's no story pushing you to do them, they feel pointless at some point, other than just a way to grind for gear, so you can do more dungeons, so you can get more gear, so you can do other trials, so you can get more gear, so you can do more trials, and so on.

If story and overland had veteran modes, then you wouldn't feel like you're getting gear just so you can get more gear, now it would feel like you're getting better gear because you need to stop the villains and save whatever chunk of land the story takes place in, it would make the bosses be actual threats you can be afraid of, it would make the grinding and building your character feel more like a necessity to accomplish something.
I mean, if the bosses are there in a public space where players get to take a turn to defeat them, why not make those bosses as tough as the solo arena bosses? They're tough, it takes a lot for a single player to defeat them, and yet they can be defeated by one player, other players joining in will make the fight easier but still feel like a challenge.

I wanted to feel the dread of Merhunes Dagon invading, and yet all I got was some basic overland boss I could quickly mow down but decided to hold back to make the fight feel more threatening than it actually was, the whole story falls short because I'm more scared of solo arena bosses that don't even have a story than the so called enemies that the story mode seems so eager to sell you as an actual threat.

I'd prefer if bosses were at instanced locations, even if they were as easy as they are, but I think I'm asking too much for that, but a veteran mode would definitely make the game more engaging without limiting yourself to just tirals and dungeons to get an actual challenge.
This way I'll be more excited for future chapter releases because now I'd be eager to see what the story has to offer, and not because I wanna see what gear set will be the new meta for PvP (By the way, start stacking up on bash gear, we all know where the new meta is headed)

What do you guys think would help make the stories feel more engaging with current game mechanics that won't revolve around adding dialogue?

I thought it was worse before One Tamriel. Yeah, things were more difficult if you went to an area that was above your level. But if you spent any amount of time in a zone questing and exploring you quickly out-leveled the area and everything became even easier than they are now. Monsters couldn't even hurt you, and wouldn't even drop loot.

So as easy as the overland is today, I still prefer it to the way it was before.

I've said this till I'm blue in the face and everyone is probably sick of hearing it, but I really do think an optional Veteran version of the overland zones (similar to what they already do with dungeons) would help make questing more fun for veteran players. Because you're right, it's just way too easy right now for experienced players. Lot of times I kill the quest bosses before they can even get their single line of dialogue off and it's like their corpse is talking to me. It really is just pathetic.

Aliniel

The fact that this issue keeps popping up every week for years now...

The key word in all these discussions is OPTIONAL.

Killing a powerful monstrous enemy from Oblivion in a matter of three seconds is beyond pathetic gameplay. Elder Scrolls games are well-known for their well-made difficulty scaling. Makes me wonder how can a game claim Elder Scrolls title without this primary game mechanic...

Miragent

Harder overland - NO. Because people do a lot of things in overland besides killing ctitters: pick flowers (or gather resources on an industrial level), fish, do antiquities, farm treasure chests, frolick, role play, take scenery screenshots, grab skyshards/mages guild books/psijic breaches with fresh characters etc.

Harder (and instanced) story bosses - YES (but not too hard - so that stories are accessible to all players). I want to be able to hear all the voice acted lines before my light attack or wall of elements silence them. Or worse yet, someone else's.

Uvi_AUT

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

NO. JUST NO.

It’s apparently that time of week again. We literally went through 40 pages of this about a week ago.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588060/800k-people-dont-seem-to-mind-difficult-overworld/p1

Its okay to have a new thread every week. This need to be spoken about and heard as much as possible. Its the singlemost awful thing about ESO. It holds the game back from becoming the go to mmo.
As of now, I really cant recommend the game to anyone of my friends.
Seriously, I cant even have someone watch over my shoulder. It looks like I attack ice with a flamethrower. Most times the mobs dont even finish one attackanimation. Thats just so wrong.

Ippokrates

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

colossalvoids

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Aliniel

I'm actually curious. When does the scaling stop currently? Is it at level 0, a.k.a. CP 0? Or does it go up to 50CP, 150CP, 160CP?

The solution to this might be as simple as a setting to set scaling to CP X. Ofc, the issue is how to place the person who scales to 150 and person who scales to 800 together in the world? I think a debuff could be an answer. Player scaling to CP 800 would have lowered dmg, healing, increased dmg taken... This way others wouldn't suffer from increased difficulty.

The current "solution" to increase difficulty is to equip lower gear, remove CP, etc. But this stops the progression altogether! I am not longer looking to get new and more interesting gear, improve myself, etc. Because if I do, the game goes back to being super easy again. If I were limited by a debuff, there's still "ways to improve" and "overcome" this debuff by getting better gear, higher CP, improving companion, etc.. When the game gets too easy again, the player could increase the "debuff power" a bit again and keep progressing by improving his CP further.

Honestly, giving us such optional debuff could be a very simple solution and it we could control when to turn it on/off.

Ippokrates

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Simple - if they do not try a content designed for challenge, they should not complain about more difficult overland content.

Which is not so easy btw. If you are pursuing motifs for trade, sometimes it could be quite challenging to handle solo some DLC bosses, Harrowstorms or even Craglorn group dungs if you are doing it in reasonable time on more than one toons.

But if you never tried that, sure, it is far better to complain that those particular goblins or skeletons should have x times more hp and dmg, because than the challenge would be real! ^^

colossalvoids

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Simple - if they do not try a content designed for challenge, they should not complain about more difficult overland content.

Which is not so easy btw. If you are pursuing motifs for trade, sometimes it could be quite challenging to handle solo some DLC bosses, Harrowstorms or even Craglorn group dungs if you are doing it in reasonable time on more than one toons.

But if you never tried that, sure, it is far better to complain that those particular goblins or skeletons should have x times more hp and dmg, because than the challenge would be real! ^^

So not engaging 90% of the game they've bought is fine then? Bosses laying on the ground before their "spoopy" phrases are ended and the threat to the whole world was a joke all along. It's just getting old pretty fast even with immense interest in tes lore.

You're trying to shoehorn every request into the same box and propose people to go same routes which isn't what they want at all. Surely they can sit at storms or wbs all day long hoping that no one comes (rip on pc) but that's same reservation route as forcing them all into dungeon or trial bubble because that's the only content that could be difficult out there. Anyway people want and ask for different solutions, it's not all about your vet overland, some are pretty simple ones as quest main bosses having difficulty enablers / setting etc. This alone would eliminate most of the difficulty requests to basic content.

And if I cleared all HM's and stuff in this game it makes my feedback more valuable on that subject? Come on. Most people I know that are in the same boat are just bored and have no hope for the game left (if they're playing even anymore). You won't see much of their feedback in any thread related to that issue.

Ippokrates

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Simple - if they do not try a content designed for challenge, they should not complain about more difficult overland content.

Which is not so easy btw. If you are pursuing motifs for trade, sometimes it could be quite challenging to handle solo some DLC bosses, Harrowstorms or even Craglorn group dungs if you are doing it in reasonable time on more than one toons.

But if you never tried that, sure, it is far better to complain that those particular goblins or skeletons should have x times more hp and dmg, because than the challenge would be real! ^^

So not engaging 90% of the game they've bought is fine then? Bosses laying on the ground before their "spoopy" phrases are ended and the threat to the whole world was a joke all along. It's just getting old pretty fast even with immense interest in tes lore.

You're trying to shoehorn every request into the same box and propose people to go same routes which isn't what they want at all. Surely they can sit at storms or wbs all day long hoping that no one comes (rip on pc) but that's same reservation route as forcing them all into dungeon or trial bubble because that's the only content that could be difficult out there. Anyway people want and ask for different solutions, it's not all about your vet overland, some are pretty simple ones as quest main bosses having difficulty enablers / setting etc. This alone would eliminate most of the difficulty requests to basic content.

And if I cleared all HM's and stuff in this game it makes my feedback more valuable on that subject? Come on. Most people I know that are in the same boat are just bored and have no hope for the game left (if they're playing even anymore). You won't see much of their feedback in any thread related to that issue.

Well, if beating overland mobs is a 90% of your gameplay, i think we already have an answer.

And no, i do not force anyone to anything. In fact, i am thinking about all those people who are playing mainly to gather resources or simply collect book or skyshards for their new toon, that do not have skills or equipment. You are the one that want to make live a difficult for them.

Seriously, start doing vet content and then you will come back with different attitude.

Hallothiel

Oh [snip]. Again with this.

All these ideas - vet toggle, different instance etc - make up your minds!!

But my question is still this - who is paying for this?

Changes like this cost time & resources. Why should these be diverted away from the main game just to please a vocal minority? Here’s a thought - if Zos did this, but made it an optional extra you had to pay for, like a dlc, how many would actually buy it?

Also, there is no point comparing the story questlines & choices to bloody Skyrim as that is a SINGLE player game and this is not. If you don’t understand the difference & what it does & does not allow you to do, then I despair.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Hallothiel

All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

But they DO have satisfied customers. They will look at the data & analyse it & see what most are doing. And most players are pretty casual. Which is fine. It’s what a lot of people do, use this game to relax and have fun without stressing over having to kill stuff.

Then if they want more, they can investigate. That’s what guilds are for. (This is an MMO)

But most don’t. I help run a guild of good active players, but trying to get a prog run for vMoL together is bloody hard. People don’t mind doing normal, but the commitment needed for vet (to learn mechs & group dynamics) - little interest. Not that interested in ‘hard’ stuff.

I do think that the time & money it would need to create a vet overland would be money wasted. Most players are just not that interested.

Parasaurolophus

Hallothiel wrote: »

Oh [snip]. Again with this.

All these ideas - vet toggle, different instance etc - make up your minds!!

But my question is still this - who is paying for this?

Changes like this cost time & resources. Why should these be diverted away from the main game just to please a vocal minority? Here’s a thought - if Zos did this, but made it an optional extra you had to pay for, like a dlc, how many would actually buy it?

Also, there is no point comparing the story questlines & choices to bloody Skyrim as that is a SINGLE player game and this is not. If you don’t understand the difference & what it does & does not allow you to do, then I despair.

These topics have already explained more than once why counting other people's money is a bad and deconstructive idea.

As for the second point - do you really like that 90% of the content in an MMO RPG looks like a visual novel or even just reading a comic?

[edited to remove quote]

tonyblack

Ippokrates wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Just curiosity, but all people complaing about harder overland - did you completed all DLC Dungs on HM? Or solo? And Trials? And all vet arenas?

How would any of that accomplishments be connected with people wanting to have engaging main stories or overland not to be a walk in a park? All players aren't the same, some obviously are and some aren't and that's the point of such threads - not everyone is the same and people want to be engaged I what they've decided to do. Some just cant because non existent difficulty. It's up for zos to decide if they want a satisfied customer or not (we know the current answer).

Simple - if they do not try a content designed for challenge, they should not complain about more difficult overland content.

Which is not so easy btw. If you are pursuing motifs for trade, sometimes it could be quite challenging to handle solo some DLC bosses, Harrowstorms or even Craglorn group dungs if you are doing it in reasonable time on more than one toons.

But if you never tried that, sure, it is far better to complain that those particular goblins or skeletons should have x times more hp and dmg, because than the challenge would be real! ^^

So if i want any semblance of meaningful combat I should stay in same dungeons and trials? (which are group only btw) Experiencing stories and questing out of the question for anyone who bothered to do progression for said hard content? Kinda selfish if you ask me.

ADarklore

drsalvation wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

I'm seriously surprised at how many people are against this concept.
I don't think we're asking for much by having a separate veteran mode to make story quests (you know, 80% of the game's base content) be more enjoyable, normal users could still play in normal mode.

Nah you are not asking for much,only a complete rework of all current mobs,delve bosses,wb,and so on even if its seperate instance it still means a lot of work, time and money what ZOS would need to invest.

Yeah, it must be impossible then, I wonder how the tamriel one patch ever came to be then, while still rolling out new content.
I guess the instanced veteran mode could be some extra work, but I mean, overland already has instances dynamically shift on quests when exploring flashbacks of certain regions, which also exclude players and current mobs and add different types of enemies, like when you're exploring the past when the brothers of strife were created.

To address your bolded statement... there was VERY LITTLE new content while One Tamriel was developed. That's how.

Aliniel

Hallothiel wrote: »

Oh [snip]. Again with this.

All these ideas - vet toggle, different instance etc - make up your minds!!

But my question is still this - who is paying for this?

Changes like this cost time & resources. Why should these be diverted away from the main game just to please a vocal minority? Here’s a thought - if Zos did this, but made it an optional extra you had to pay for, like a dlc, how many would actually buy it?

Also, there is no point comparing the story questlines & choices to bloody Skyrim as that is a SINGLE player game and this is not. If you don’t understand the difference & what it does & does not allow you to do, then I despair.

There are cheap solutions. Like debuff.

What does difficulty setting do?

• Increase/decrease damage taken.
• Increase/decrease damage done.
• Increase/decrease healing done.
• Increase/decrease resources.
• ...

All this can be handled with a simple debuff.
Let anyone who wants more difficult content adjust their difficulty properties.
You can make a slider which goes from 0% to X%. You can even make it separate for every property.

• It doesn't affect anyone who doesn't want it.
• It allows for people to co-exist in the same world and even play together.
• It allows people to progress while at the same time having higher difficulty.
• It can be automatically turned off in group instances so others don't suffer because you want something harder.
• It can be allowed in premade group instances so people can enjoy higher difficulty dungeons even in the older dungeons.

What will it cost?
Little to nothing. There's already tons of buffs/debuffs. What does another one (or a few) do?

Is it perfect?
No. It doesn't deal with the "stupid" AI of the mobs where they just stand and do almost nothing. But it's a start. We can't expect the devs to rewrite the entire game years after it was released after all.

[edited to remove quote]

Hallothiel

do you really like that 90% of the content in an MMO RPG looks like a visual novel or even just reading a comic?

But that is what the majority of all rpg games are - visual novels! You are playing through a story.

Even when you bring in the MMO bit & play with others - there is still a story behind the dungeon or trial or even Cyrodiil.

So not really sure what your point is?

simox

I think a difficulty slider wouldnt work or a debuff of some sorts on yourself wouldnt work, lets say you are fighting stuff on the hardest difficulty (100%) and then some other guy who is on the easiest (0%) just comes and one shot the stuff you are fighting, thats whats gonna happen in many cases and they are not going to separate the playerbase by adding different instances for different difficulties.

More realistically what they could do is perhaps add veteran versions for delves, public dungeons and instanced story bosses.

huntgod_ESO

I just don't understand folks revisiting this issue again and again, though they have a few valid points about the dialogue engagement and needing a little more diversity of choices.

If you want a harder game, it is very easy, dump your CP to zero. Use generic equipment at whatever level you find challenging and then go to town.

Do not expect them to balance overland content against 1600cp players in BIS gear, then the game becomes very difficult for new players.

So take a step back, put on some crappy gear, strip down the CP and go have fun.

Aliniel

If you want a harder game, it is very easy, dump your CP to zero. Use generic equipment at whatever level you find challenging and then go to town.

Do not expect them to balance overland content against 1600cp players in BIS gear, then the game becomes very difficult for new players.

So take a step back, put on some crappy gear, strip down the CP and go have fun.

Multiple issues here:

1. You need to dump everything to zero every time you're not playing dungeon, trial, pvp...
2. New content, chapters, story DLC, have the same issue. They want both 0 CP an 1600CP players to play this new content but it's a joke for high CP players. Other MMOs don't scale old content up so they don't have this issue. New content in WoW is similarly engaging both to new and old players because the gear is completely replaced.

I think a difficulty slider wouldnt work or a debuff of some sorts on yourself wouldnt work, lets say you are fighting stuff on the hardest difficulty (100%) and then some other guy who is on the easiest (0%) just comes and one shot the stuff you are fighting, thats whats gonna happen in many cases and they are not going to separate the playerbase by adding different instances for different difficulties.

That's true, but you're often alone. You could also just wait till the other player goes away.
Solo instances would be safe with this and I think most main bosses happen in solo instances.

huntgod_ESO

Aliniel wrote: »

If you want a harder game, it is very easy, dump your CP to zero. Use generic equipment at whatever level you find challenging and then go to town.

Do not expect them to balance overland content against 1600cp players in BIS gear, then the game becomes very difficult for new players.

So take a step back, put on some crappy gear, strip down the CP and go have fun.

Multiple issues here:

1. You need to dump everything to zero every time you're not playing dungeon, trial, pvp...
2. New content, chapters, story DLC, have the same issue. They want both 0 CP an 1600CP players to play this new content but it's a joke for high CP players. Other MMOs don't scale old content up so they don't have this issue. New content in WoW is similarly engaging both to new and old players because the gear is completely replaced.

It takes 15 seconds and 3000 gold to zero out your CP. If on PC, even less to put them back up.

With the new Armory system it's even easier, you just make your alternate slot for Hard Overland content and swap to it when you are doing overland.

Aliniel

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

Aliniel wrote: »

If you want a harder game, it is very easy, dump your CP to zero. Use generic equipment at whatever level you find challenging and then go to town.

Do not expect them to balance overland content against 1600cp players in BIS gear, then the game becomes very difficult for new players.

So take a step back, put on some crappy gear, strip down the CP and go have fun.

Multiple issues here:

1. You need to dump everything to zero every time you're not playing dungeon, trial, pvp...
2. New content, chapters, story DLC, have the same issue. They want both 0 CP an 1600CP players to play this new content but it's a joke for high CP players. Other MMOs don't scale old content up so they don't have this issue. New content in WoW is similarly engaging both to new and old players because the gear is completely replaced.

It takes 15 seconds and 3000 gold to zero out your CP. If on PC, even less to put them back up.

With the new Armory system it's even easier, you just make your alternate slot for Hard Overland content and swap to it when you are doing overland.

You keep forgetting what's the point of higher difficulty though. I don't want to shut out 50% of game mechanics just so I can enjoy the game.

What you're offering is changing the way I play, to stop progressing. What's the point playing an RPG game then?

The answer needs to be customizable difficulty level, not shutting out parts of the gameplay.

Parasaurolophus

Hallothiel wrote: »

do you really like that 90% of the content in an MMO RPG looks like a visual novel or even just reading a comic?

But that is what the majority of all rpg games are - visual novels! You are playing through a story.

Even when you bring in the MMO bit & play with others - there is still a story behind the dungeon or trial or even Cyrodiil.

So not really sure what your point is?

Yes I am sure. Because even in visual novels, there are different options for the development of the story. In classic RPGs, there are often at least some dialogue options in order to give the player the best roleplaying experience. Well, or at least not harm the player.
In Morrowind, the ace had several side quest lines, silly and interesting stories. About Sun-in-Shadows for example or Veya Releth. Zosy abandoned them, again filling the locations with short side quests. That is, the game cannot even give players a full-fledged questing / RP experience, but just invites us to read tons of dialogues. That is why it is compared to a visual novel, because the player is required to simply read / listen to dialogues.

MMO aims to give the player gameplay. Fill locations with interesting and replayable and varied content that eso locations do not have.

I already wrote my thoughts why so:

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I have a completely different opinion. Yes, I also do not like that the game has such a trivial and boring overland. However, those "casual" players that we usually talk about are not at all the players for whom the overland was actually created. Rich said that most of the players play for no more than 6 weeks. 6 weeks! And then I remembered one interesting thing that this is happening in the gaming industry as a whole. Take a look at other games. For any. Open any popular game on Steam and take a look at the achievements. And you will see that no more than 20% of the players complete these games. This applies to any content, not just main quests. You can also see what percentage of players got achievements in eso on PS (I don’t know if there is such an opportunity on Xbox). It's not about difficult. Most of the players just buy this game, play it for a couple of weeks, maybe leave some extra money. And then, maybe it will go back to the next dlc. This is why overland content is designed for people who play little. If Craglorn's main problem was difficulty, then why not just nerf it while continuing to develop adventure zones with lots of different content? The reason is not that 99% of the players will not be able to complete it, but they just will not see it. They will leave games before they can play at least half of the content. Therefore, ZoS has optimized the development. But the game still fails to keep players from using content. The population of the location is rapidly declining after the release and ZoS has to constantly and artificially "inflate" the population. Motives that are realized a couple of months after the release. And events every two weeks.
Other rules are also designed for these players:
-Short main quest.
-Lots of short side quests, not quest chains like it was in Morrowind.
-The whole system "stroy of the year", where we are directly told that "a princess in another castle"
I don't know if ZoS can actually create interesting and replayable overland content that can keep active players for at least a few weeks. Or did ZoS just take this easy route, attracting a lot of new but fickle players? But it is obvious that they are following this path.
I think I have already come to terms with the fact that the overland ends for me in a few days and is not impressive. But I wouldn't be so upset if zos gave more love to high-end content. It is difficult to find players for 6 keys lately. And the fact that U32 was left without a new trial or arena in general is a slap in the face from the developers.

If you have any arguments in favor of the fact that ZoS does not just work in the maximum economy mode in order to attract short-lived players, tell us. The ZoS themselves spoke about this in 2016, in an interview. On PAX it seems.

Araxyte

Implement a hard mode toggle which gives your character a series of challenging debuffs whilst fighting overland. When toggled during entire quest, overland quests award a treasure chest with an engaging drop table of various materials, armour sets, or furniture - RNG based with higher drop chance depending on the amount of debuffs on your character. Have various tiered difficulty including new achievements, titles and skins. Each player can choose their own difficulty without affecting the experience of other players.