Vampire is getting nerfed. Again.

Dragonlord573

Mist form will no longer work against PvE enemies, making it exclusively a PvP skill. Their reasoning is because it is meant as a disengagement skill and not as a tanking ability. This reasoning does not make any sense due to Blood Mist, which is a damaging ability. Making mist form no longer work in PvE is going to make playing as a vampire even more niche than it already is. Every patch vampire gets a nerf of some kind, and eventually all vampire will be is just a skin. This mistreatment of vampire has to end.

dinokstrunz

The fact that you only really see people using mist in pve is in Rockgrove Trash & Bahsei hardmode. Why didn't they just adjust the fights rather than sorting out the 1 skill.

Odovacar

It seems ZOS considers using it in PvE as cheese'n. Vampy's have been through a lot.

Dragonlord573

dinokstrunz wrote: »

The fact that you only really see people using mist in pve is in Rockgrove Trash & Bahsei hardmode. Why didn't they just adjust the fights rather than sorting out the 1 skill.

They really want vRG HM to be nearly impossible. On the PTS tanks could dodge all the attacks there. Then in a PTS update they made all the attacks undodgable. So on Live players got crafty and used mist form. Now that won't work.

What's next, use meditate to get that 30% damage reduction, and will ZOS nerf meditate cause of that?

Everyone should not be punished for a minuscule amount of the player population using a skill to get past ZOE's fixation with making the HM nearly impossible.

Thannazzar

The key problem is ZOS never ask themselves: 'Will this change make the game more or less fun to play?'

Mumbles_the_Tank

dinokstrunz wrote: »

The fact that you only really see people using mist in pve is in Rockgrove Trash & Bahsei hardmode. Why didn't they just adjust the fights rather than sorting out the 1 skill.

Because that would be ZOS admitting they are in the wrong - instead of implying that the players are the naughty ones for using Mist to survive a poorly balanced piece of content.

Darrett

I still think Vamp and WW should be more powerful than mortal options, at least while solo.

Make them similar to playing as a Jedi in SWG. Forced PvP flags, player bounties, and potential for increasingly powerful NPC hunters to appear. Limit their ability to receive outside healing and buffs. If you die, have some kind of a reconstitution timer that limits your character significantly for the duration.

Vevvev

It would have been one thing to nerf it, but completely removing it is insane. They could have brought it in line with the Psijic Order passive at 30% mitigation to start up a standard, had the ability drop all taunts against the player, or fixed the fights the ability was used in. Instead they removed the ability in PvE, and partially nerfed it in PvP because in the Imperial City and Cyrodiil there are some hard hitting NPCs, especially when they group up.

This whole change is nonsensical and feels like some kind of punishment than a proper gameplay balance change.

AgentSylo

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

The fact that you only really see people using mist in pve is in Rockgrove Trash & Bahsei hardmode. Why didn't they just adjust the fights rather than sorting out the 1 skill.

They really want vRG HM to be nearly impossible. On the PTS tanks could dodge all the attacks there. Then in a PTS update they made all the attacks undodgable. So on Live players got crafty and used mist form. Now that won't work.

What's next, use meditate to get that 30% damage reduction, and will ZOS nerf meditate cause of that?

Everyone should not be punished for a minuscule amount of the player population using a skill to get past ZOE's fixation with making the HM nearly impossible.

^^ this right here is spot on, but it's not just vrg hm, they do it all the time in near all situations, anything that benefits the player.

Im not just talking bypassing a mech or finding ways around things but just anything, like speed runs... So they reduce the seconds you have a speed buff... They wanted to remove Pre buffing why? Cast time on ultimates why? The list goes on and on.

They are mentioning about trying to let players play their own way but it just feels like they want us to play how they want not how we want, constantly taking things away we enjoy in our playstyle or constantly nerfing things, not even slightly, they always bring down the full hammer of oblivion lol.

Crits are buffed crits are nerfed, dots are buffed dots are nerfed as well as sets/skills etc rinse and repeat, it's nice they want to experiment and I understand there has to be some kind of balance, and I know zos are big on the trade offs type of thing of if we give you this then we will take away that cause other wise it's unfair etc, but man is it frustrating and exhausting to keep up, even ESOs big youtubers are saying the same thing.

I'm sure zos are getting emails from pve NPCs saying please nerf them, we can't take it anymore (joke lol).

YandereGirlfriend

Well, there goes my Mist Form dungeon tank. I'll have to see how well a Meditate tank works now with the Psijic mitigation buff restored.

Vevvev

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Well, there goes my Mist Form dungeon tank. I'll have to see how well a Meditate tank works now with the Psijic mitigation buff restored.

Probably better than you'd think. Built in healing, resource restore, free to channel, 30% mitigation, and other people can you heal on top of all that!

Wolf_Eye

Does this mean we wouldn't be able to use mist form AT ALL (not even for the speed boost) outside of PVP areas?

Or is it just one part of mist form that is being completely banned in PVE?

MrBrownstone

Vevvev wrote: »

drop all taunts against the player

This would be a great idea

propertyOfUndefined

I wholeheartedly disagree with this change. If there are specific issues, then those specific issues should be addressed, or the skill should be completely redesigned. Making it useless outside of PVP is absurd.

Wolf_Eye

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I wholeheartedly disagree with this change. If there are specific issues, then those specific issues should be addressed, or the skill should be completely redesigned. Making it useless outside of PVP is absurd.

especially since vampires don't have many options for skills, since using any non vamp skill comes with a VERY hefty penalty. you're basically only allowed to use the few vamp skills, and now they're even REMOVING one... We're down to only 4 active skills for PVE, which means you can't even fill out an entire skill bar....

Vaoh

My vRG group on console is going for Planesbreaker.... Bahsei HM will now be much tougher. It‘ll also take longer to complete since portal will be slower.

Is vRG balanced with PC add-on usage in mind?? We don’t get that stuff on console. Planesbreaker is notorious for barswap lag, high difficulty, and a very tight time limit to complete the trial in. There’s zero console PB groups.

Guess we’ll see what happens

Remathilis

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I wholeheartedly disagree with this change. If there are specific issues, then those specific issues should be addressed, or the skill should be completely redesigned. Making it useless outside of PVP is absurd.

especially since vampires don't have many options for skills, since using any non vamp skill comes with a VERY hefty penalty. you're basically only allowed to use the few vamp skills, and now they're even REMOVING one... We're down to only 4 active skills for PVE, which means you can't even fill out an entire skill bar....

Right now we have:

a melee magicka/health spammable that stops you from being healed
a buff to damage that drains your life and stops you from beling healed
a (now useless) evasion tool
a melee range stun
a weak channeled drain of health + stam/ult
an alf form ultimate that only has one viable morph

and a couple of passives (fast stealth, invisibility when running, damage reduction, and extra damage from stealth)

In exchange for slower/no health recovery, increased skill cost and increased fire damage.

On top of that, the dedicated vampire set makes you weaker, and the vampire drinks are lackluster (the one that drops you stage 4 gives... health recovery bonus).

I get that ZoS doesn't want to make WW or vamp a requirement for content or a straight power-up, but man they have done a lot to make sure neither are really useable for anything but RP and overland.

peacenote

I can't help but continue to laugh at this, and I'm sorry as it's probably not a nice sentiment. (And I agree it's a bad, reactive change.)

I sounded the alarm over and over when the vampire changes were first rolled out. People were SO FIXATED on the narrative that "everyone used it only for the passive" that all nuanced feedback got buried and now look... yet another change which makes being a vampire even more niche. Why is this so catastrophic?!? Because it already was of limited use to begin with. And guess what - it is FUN to be a vampire, conceptually. So people keep trying to find uses for it only to keep being shot down. Boy, do I miss the days when I could make my healers vampires. Or heal vampires. Lol

But also this is especially funny when you think of all the "armory" slots that will now not be purchased by tanks who, for like half a second, envisioned an ESO where they could possibly be vamps for some trials but not others. It is in ZOS's best interest to keep curses useful in some situations so we will switch back and forth and still, we're losing this.

Poor vampires.

Red_Feather

I think it needs a new functionality to make it useful in pve and pvp.

Wolf_Eye

Remathilis wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I wholeheartedly disagree with this change. If there are specific issues, then those specific issues should be addressed, or the skill should be completely redesigned. Making it useless outside of PVP is absurd.

especially since vampires don't have many options for skills, since using any non vamp skill comes with a VERY hefty penalty. you're basically only allowed to use the few vamp skills, and now they're even REMOVING one... We're down to only 4 active skills for PVE, which means you can't even fill out an entire skill bar....

Right now we have:

a melee magicka/health spammable that stops you from being healed
a buff to damage that drains your life and stops you from beling healed
a (now useless) evasion tool
a melee range stun
a weak channeled drain of health + stam/ult
an alf form ultimate that only has one viable morph

and a couple of passives (fast stealth, invisibility when running, damage reduction, and extra damage from stealth)

In exchange for slower/no health recovery, increased skill cost and increased fire damage.

On top of that, the dedicated vampire set makes you weaker, and the vampire drinks are lackluster (the one that drops you stage 4 gives... health recovery bonus).

I get that ZoS doesn't want to make WW or vamp a requirement for content or a straight power-up, but man they have done a lot to make sure neither are really useable for anything but RP and overland.

And that's not even touching upon the fact that you have to sacrifice skill points for these things like all other skill lines. Or the fact that you can't interact with a lot of NPCs at stage 4 to sell stuff or repair items, or that accidentally using certain skills in town will automatically get you chased by the guards....And you have to make sure you keep your stage 4 up in order for any of the stuff to be useful.

Seriously, with so many sacrifices, you'd think you were getting something AMAZING.

Vevvev

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I wholeheartedly disagree with this change. If there are specific issues, then those specific issues should be addressed, or the skill should be completely redesigned. Making it useless outside of PVP is absurd.

especially since vampires don't have many options for skills, since using any non vamp skill comes with a VERY hefty penalty. you're basically only allowed to use the few vamp skills, and now they're even REMOVING one... We're down to only 4 active skills for PVE, which means you can't even fill out an entire skill bar....

Right now we have:

a melee magicka/health spammable that stops you from being healed
a buff to damage that drains your life and stops you from beling healed
a (now useless) evasion tool
a melee range stun
a weak channeled drain of health + stam/ult
an alf form ultimate that only has one viable morph

and a couple of passives (fast stealth, invisibility when running, damage reduction, and extra damage from stealth)

In exchange for slower/no health recovery, increased skill cost and increased fire damage.

On top of that, the dedicated vampire set makes you weaker, and the vampire drinks are lackluster (the one that drops you stage 4 gives... health recovery bonus).

I get that ZoS doesn't want to make WW or vamp a requirement for content or a straight power-up, but man they have done a lot to make sure neither are really useable for anything but RP and overland.

And that's not even touching upon the fact that you have to sacrifice skill points for these things like all other skill lines. Or the fact that you can't interact with a lot of NPCs at stage 4 to sell stuff or repair items, or that accidentally using certain skills in town will automatically get you chased by the guards....And you have to make sure you keep your stage 4 up in order for any of the stuff to be useful.

Seriously, with so many sacrifices, you'd think you were getting something AMAZING.

At what point does it go from a kiss/curse system to just a straight up curse? Think we passed that point a long time ago in my opinion, especially after the Ring of the Pale Order change.

peacenote

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I wholeheartedly disagree with this change. If there are specific issues, then those specific issues should be addressed, or the skill should be completely redesigned. Making it useless outside of PVP is absurd.

especially since vampires don't have many options for skills, since using any non vamp skill comes with a VERY hefty penalty. you're basically only allowed to use the few vamp skills, and now they're even REMOVING one... We're down to only 4 active skills for PVE, which means you can't even fill out an entire skill bar....

Right now we have:

a melee magicka/health spammable that stops you from being healed
a buff to damage that drains your life and stops you from beling healed
a (now useless) evasion tool
a melee range stun
a weak channeled drain of health + stam/ult
an alf form ultimate that only has one viable morph

and a couple of passives (fast stealth, invisibility when running, damage reduction, and extra damage from stealth)

In exchange for slower/no health recovery, increased skill cost and increased fire damage.

On top of that, the dedicated vampire set makes you weaker, and the vampire drinks are lackluster (the one that drops you stage 4 gives... health recovery bonus).

I get that ZoS doesn't want to make WW or vamp a requirement for content or a straight power-up, but man they have done a lot to make sure neither are really useable for anything but RP and overland.

And that's not even touching upon the fact that you have to sacrifice skill points for these things like all other skill lines. Or the fact that you can't interact with a lot of NPCs at stage 4 to sell stuff or repair items, or that accidentally using certain skills in town will automatically get you chased by the guards....And you have to make sure you keep your stage 4 up in order for any of the stuff to be useful.

Seriously, with so many sacrifices, you'd think you were getting something AMAZING.

I'm telling you. The feedback was - vampirism is a curse. Vampirism should be niche. It should be a hard choice.

So somewhere, ZoS probably has a dashboard that sounds a red alert (likely complete with a nerf hammer icon) any time "too many" of a class or role become a vampire. Oh no!!! It's supposed to be niche!!! That's what we heard!!!!

This, my friends, is the land of unintended consequences. People set out on a war against a passive and we now have the "gift" that keeps on giving: uncompromising, swift nerfs any time vampirism enters any kind of meta. And because it was "our" feedback, I doubt we will see any kind of reversal of course anytime soon. Especially since the community only usually unifies in indignance against universal DPS loss issues.

starkerealm

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

The fact that you only really see people using mist in pve is in Rockgrove Trash & Bahsei hardmode. Why didn't they just adjust the fights rather than sorting out the 1 skill.

They really want vRG HM to be nearly impossible. On the PTS tanks could dodge all the attacks there. Then in a PTS update they made all the attacks undodgable. So on Live players got crafty and used mist form. Now that won't work.

What's next, use meditate to get that 30% damage reduction, and will ZOS nerf meditate cause of that?

Everyone should not be punished for a minuscule amount of the player population using a skill to get past ZOE's fixation with making the HM nearly impossible.

Next is that they change every enemy in the trial to apply oblivion damage as a hitscan.

katanagirl1

Odovacar wrote: »

It seems ZOS considers using it in PvE as cheese'n. Vampy's have been through a lot.

I think that using it in PvP is. I don’t care if anyone uses it in PvE.

Why is it something that allows you to run away from other faction opponents and take less damage? You don’t even have to press a button, right?

BalticBlues

WW is Stamina, and ZOS now for 3 years buffs Stamina.
Vamps are Magicka, and ZOS now for 3 years nerfs Magicka.

When I play WW, the skills feel natural and useful.
When I play Vamp, the skills feel artificial and lacking (some even useless).

When I play WW, I play it mostly for the skills.
When I play Vamp, I play it mostly for the passives.

Now another Vamp skill is finally completely useless.
IMHO, the designers of this Vampire mess should be ashamed.

Smoky

I haven't been playing as a Vampire long and already I have looked at the skills and feel most were pointless but at least it had some good passives, now they nerf that as well! Looks like my Vamp will just have to hide in a dark corner until it changes.

Spectral_Force

Vevvev wrote: »

This whole change is nonsensical and feels like some kind of punishment than a proper gameplay balance change.

(I know this post is quite far up, but) Now that you mention it, it does feel like a punishment of sorts.

Mist Form is meant to be used as a disengagement tool, and the current iteration is currently enabling it to be used as a stand-your-ground ability in PvE. Moving forward, we are restricting the damage reduction to PvP to help stave off damage as you retreat, while removing it as an outright defensive tool in PvE.

"We intended for the ability to be used in a certain way, but the players found a really effective use for it outside of our original intention. So instead of trying to organically work this new strategy into our original vision, we'll simply force you to play our way."

I already said this in another discussion, but there absolutely are ways to nerf Mist Form without resorting to essentially disabling it for all PvE content, ranging from number tweaking (less damge reduction, higher costs, etc.) to certain limitations on when Mist Form actually prevents damage (whether it works in dungeons, against bosses, etc.). Such a drastic measure certainly sounds like a threat - you can't have your toys if you won't behave.

wubbelflup

personally i think mist form is a bit insane. i often just run trough dungeons instead of fighting at all.

that said, it's literally the only pro to playing vampire.. the regeneration needs to be put back if they want to make it fun again.

Coatmagic

wubbelflup wrote: »

personally i think mist form is a bit insane. i often just run trough dungeons instead of fighting at all.

that said, it's literally the only pro to playing vampire.. the regeneration needs to be put back if they want to make it fun again.

This one runs through dungeons all the time without fighting anything or being a vampire o.O

If vamp and ww are meant to be just roleplay skins they should just wipe the skill lines ffs, smh.

WhyMustItBe

Another nail in the coffin of the current state of vampires in ESO. Badum-tsh.

Playing as vampire is now totally un-fun. Either give it a proper AOE that isn't a channel possibly with some crowd control and remove normal ability cost penalties at rank1, or just delete the whole darn thing for all I care.

My only 1 character out of 18 that still has it is my thief NB and I think I'll just pick up a set of the gear that removes sneak penalty slowdown since that is the only reason I even keep it on him.

The lest they could have done is make a PVE morph that does something useful/interesting.

Terrible change to a playstyle that is in the worst place it has been since launch.

To continue with the bad puns, vampirism truly sucks in ESO!

Adremal

I liked how vampirism was reworked, an entire chapter based on vampires was made, complete with plenty of vampiric options for the player even outside from the story including but not limited to, houses, styles, costumes, furnishing... and what incentives does one have to play a vampire in their current state other than sprinting through a delve to the boss or being somewhat gimmicky but not quite viable in PvP? Nothing, and they're not strong incentives. Meanwhile werewolves have plenty of incentives to be one and can do well, even really well, on most situations. Which is why they're seen doing all kinds of activities, whereas I've only seen vampires running through delves with that invisible spring they get - even before this nerf.