Weighted RNG in U32

jaws343

EF321 wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DarkPicture wrote: »

anyone has issue with not drops of missing item?

I did 3 runs of FG and only 1 item i got others 2 were already in my sticker

The weighted RNG only offers a BETTER chance of getting something you don't already have. It does not GUARANTEE you will get something you don't already have.

In other words, there's still RNG, it's just friendlier towards you.

Actually, this is not true. The "weighting" is 100% on something that is not in your sticker book.

In that case it doesn’t seem to be working properly. Ran through the public dungeon in Deshaan on one account and indeed only got items that were missing from stickerbook.

Ran through it on another account with more open spots in stickerbook and got an item I already had.

It should not be working in PDs at all if I recall correctly. Only group dungeons, trials, arenas.

It should work in Public Dungeons. But, it doesn't change the type of drops a boss does. So if a specific boss only drops weapons, that is all it will drop.

So Public Dungeon bosses only drop shoulder, hand or weapon pieces. If you already have those spots filled, then it will be random. You will never get any other set piece types from them because they never dropped them before this update anyways.

DarkPicture

Ok so

Everywhere u have guarantee drop items of missing items from stickersbook. However chests still gives u RNG drop. Topic closed


But yea theres apparently bug with new guarantee system

RevJJ

jaws343 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DarkPicture wrote: »

anyone has issue with not drops of missing item?

I did 3 runs of FG and only 1 item i got others 2 were already in my sticker

The weighted RNG only offers a BETTER chance of getting something you don't already have. It does not GUARANTEE you will get something you don't already have.

In other words, there's still RNG, it's just friendlier towards you.

Actually, this is not true. The "weighting" is 100% on something that is not in your sticker book.

In that case it doesn’t seem to be working properly. Ran through the public dungeon in Deshaan on one account and indeed only got items that were missing from stickerbook.

Ran through it on another account with more open spots in stickerbook and got an item I already had.

It should not be working in PDs at all if I recall correctly. Only group dungeons, trials, arenas.

It should work in Public Dungeons. But, it doesn't change the type of drops a boss does. So if a specific boss only drops weapons, that is all it will drop.

So Public Dungeon bosses only drop shoulder, hand or weapon pieces. If you already have those spots filled, then it will be random. You will never get any other set piece types from them because they never dropped them before this update anyways.

I’m missing 22 weapons over all three Deshaan overland sets and got a pair of shoulders I already had.

Ippokrates

Pevey wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DarkPicture wrote: »

anyone has issue with not drops of missing item?

I did 3 runs of FG and only 1 item i got others 2 were already in my sticker

The weighted RNG only offers a BETTER chance of getting something you don't already have. It does not GUARANTEE you will get something you don't already have.

In other words, there's still RNG, it's just friendlier towards you.

Actually, this is not true. The "weighting" is 100% on something that is not in your sticker book.

TBH it is not how weighted random work. It is still random, but more balanced, so you shouldn't get the same restoration staff three times in row ;p

Yes, ZOS wrote something different but i have my distance to that ;p


Everyone interested, check Coding Math channel at YT

DarkPicture

Ippokrates wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DarkPicture wrote: »

anyone has issue with not drops of missing item?

I did 3 runs of FG and only 1 item i got others 2 were already in my sticker

The weighted RNG only offers a BETTER chance of getting something you don't already have. It does not GUARANTEE you will get something you don't already have.

In other words, there's still RNG, it's just friendlier towards you.

Actually, this is not true. The "weighting" is 100% on something that is not in your sticker book.

TBH it is not how weighted random work. It is still random, but more balanced, so you shouldn't get the same restoration staff three times in row ;p

Yes, ZOS wrote something different but i have my distance to that ;p


Everyone interested, check Coding Math channel at YT

Its not random, pls check official source not random players who doesnt follow streams

EF321

jaws343 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DarkPicture wrote: »

anyone has issue with not drops of missing item?

I did 3 runs of FG and only 1 item i got others 2 were already in my sticker

The weighted RNG only offers a BETTER chance of getting something you don't already have. It does not GUARANTEE you will get something you don't already have.

In other words, there's still RNG, it's just friendlier towards you.

Actually, this is not true. The "weighting" is 100% on something that is not in your sticker book.

In that case it doesn’t seem to be working properly. Ran through the public dungeon in Deshaan on one account and indeed only got items that were missing from stickerbook.

Ran through it on another account with more open spots in stickerbook and got an item I already had.

It should not be working in PDs at all if I recall correctly. Only group dungeons, trials, arenas.

It should work in Public Dungeons. But, it doesn't change the type of drops a boss does. So if a specific boss only drops weapons, that is all it will drop.

So Public Dungeon bosses only drop shoulder, hand or weapon pieces. If you already have those spots filled, then it will be random. You will never get any other set piece types from them because they never dropped them before this update anyways.

Uhh sorry, I probably misunderstood information on original stream or it was misleading. Checked, it does work in PDs and patch notes suggest so as well.

Xebov

DimTh wrote: »

This is the disaster of ESO, soon or later the trials will be empty, really, give me a reason as you
have all the pieces of the sets to go again there in..... to do what?

The biggest mistake ever which ZOS do!!!!

Not everyone will collect the gear and trials are up to 60 runs. Trials loike MoL, HoF or SO are hardly run at all already, so not much difference there.

Chrysa1is

It is honestly about time this was introduced. It was a very tedious and horrible experience for players to go through the pain of "maybe this time i'll get it...nope". I've had my hope restored now.

Darkheart

I ran 3 dungeon with 1 person in a group. and every time we got a items for her sticker book. She got items she needed for her and I also got the items she needed. But I still needed several items myself.

Looks like when you run a dungeon, you get items someone in the group still needs but that could mean , yourself still get a item you already have but is for another member in the group.

Xebov

Darkheart wrote: »

I ran 3 dungeon with 1 person in a group. and every time we got a items for her sticker book. She got items she needed for her and I also got the items she needed. But I still needed several items myself.

Looks like when you run a dungeon, you get items someone in the group still needs but that could mean , yourself still get a item you already have but is for another member in the group.

I just finished 3 random daily dungeons and iam not so sure if this feature is working as intended. I ended up in 2 vanilla dungeons where iam missing 2 and 3 weapons. I got a weapon each time that i already had collected so i didnt make any progress. The 3. dungeon was a dlc dungeon where i missed 9 weapons and i got an uncollected weapon. The data is a bit thin to make an assumtion if its working at all, but at the very least i can say that its not working as i had expect it (getting an uncollected item every time).

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you shed some light into this?

Kryptonite_Kent

Chrysa1is wrote: »

It is honestly about time this was introduced. It was a very tedious and horrible experience for players to go through the pain of "maybe this time i'll get it...nope". I've had my hope restored now.

Dont get your hopes up... it doesnt even work

Franchise408

fizl101 wrote: »

DimTh wrote: »

This is the disaster of ESO, soon or later the trials will be empty, really, give me a reason as you
have all the pieces of the sets to go again there in..... to do what?

The biggest mistake ever which ZOS do!!!!

Do you only do trials to get gear? I do several a week purely for the fun of doing trials.

No. You can't play this game simply for fun and enjoyment. Must maximize return on rewards at every point.

Franchise408

cyberjanet wrote: »

So when the update launches, Arx Corinium will crash under the weight of everyone going to collect their medusa fire staves?

Oh, the joy of not playing meta builds. I don't have to go crash a dungeon everytime the meta shifts, and I can just play the game to enjoy it with the build that brings me fun

vgabor

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This weighted RNG junk is broken... I just got a Medusa greatsword that I already had collected, thought that wasnt supposed to happen????? Just chalk that up to another failure I guess huh?

I think someone mentioned that is looks like the weighted drop takes effect after the item type has been decided. If the drop decided as 2h then you get a curated item drop from the 2h weapons (or a random one if you have all 2h weapons collected) but you aren't getting a fire staff as thats a destruction staff type and not a 2h weapon...

Not enough statistical data so far to say for sure this what's happening, but if it is then this type of curated drop is pretty useless to collect the remaining missing items.

Xebov

Xebov wrote: »

Darkheart wrote: »

I ran 3 dungeon with 1 person in a group. and every time we got a items for her sticker book. She got items she needed for her and I also got the items she needed. But I still needed several items myself.

Looks like when you run a dungeon, you get items someone in the group still needs but that could mean , yourself still get a item you already have but is for another member in the group.

I just finished 3 random daily dungeons and iam not so sure if this feature is working as intended. I ended up in 2 vanilla dungeons where iam missing 2 and 3 weapons. I got a weapon each time that i already had collected so i didnt make any progress. The 3. dungeon was a dlc dungeon where i missed 9 weapons and i got an uncollected weapon. The data is a bit thin to make an assumtion if its working at all, but at the very least i can say that its not working as i had expect it (getting an uncollected item every time).

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you shed some light into this?

Some update:

I did a run into a DLC dungeon i only missed a single weapon and got it. Afterwards i ran one where i missed 1 armor piece and 26 weapons and got a weapon, but didnt get the missing armor piece out of 4 bosses capable of dropping armor.

Kryptonite_Kent

vgabor wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This weighted RNG junk is broken... I just got a Medusa greatsword that I already had collected, thought that wasnt supposed to happen????? Just chalk that up to another failure I guess huh?

I think someone mentioned that is looks like the weighted drop takes effect after the item type has been decided. If the drop decided as 2h then you get a curated item drop from the 2h weapons (or a random one if you have all 2h weapons collected) but you aren't getting a fire staff as thats a destruction staff type and not a 2h weapon...

Not enough statistical data so far to say for sure this what's happening, but if it is then this type of curated drop is pretty useless to collect the remaining missing items.

Well someone else said maybe it was because I got a named greatsword and those dont count... then I ran it some more, and ended up getting back to back of the same dagger thats not named... so its not just because of named weapons either, its probably just not working, shocker

cyberjanet

etchedpixels wrote: »

So they day you get your inferno staff will be the day you no longer need it.

The day I get anything is the day I no longer need it. Think Thrassian Stranglers, for example. They make such a big deal of mythic items, but the leads are so hard to get, that unless you're a grinder with 24/7 to play, you never get them. And ordinary players never get a chance to even try them out before they're nerfed because they're OP in the elite game-playing circles.

I tried Arx today, and got the same old greatsword I already have. Nothing new at all, not even an axe. I am so disappointed this isn't working. Maybe I'll try jigsaw puzzles for a while.

SteamKitten01

Just did a random normal and was in Scalecaller Peak. I got both a Jorvuld's hat and resto staff from bosses both of which I already have. There's still a couple of armor pieces and a LOT of weapons I'm missing from my collection that could have dropped but I got pieces I already had in my stickerbook.

jaws343

SteamKitten01 wrote: »

Just did a random normal and was in Scalecaller Peak. I got both a Jorvuld's hat and resto staff from bosses both of which I already have. There's still a couple of armor pieces and a LOT of weapons I'm missing from my collection that could have dropped but I got pieces I already had in my stickerbook.

I wonder if boss loot pools are being taken into account when reviewing the pieces needed versus what was dropped. For example, the best I could find for what drops what in a dungeon:

Minor bosses will drop one of: Hands, Waist, Feet, or unique item
Bosses will drop one of: Chest, Shoulder, Head, Legs, or unique item
Final bosses will drop one of: Jewelry, Weapon, Shield, or unique item

So if you already have Chest, Shoulder, Head and Legs of all the sets in the dungeon, then you are back to the random drops from normal bosses in a dungeon.

Likewise, if you have already pulled all weapons and jewelry, then you are back to normal random drops on the final boss.

WildLight

Yeah, honestly I was worried something like that would happen. Because it's ZOS and let's be honest, they rarely get it right on the first time. Here is hoping the system will be properly adjusted and would work as we were led to believe.

SteamKitten01

jaws343 wrote: »

SteamKitten01 wrote: »

Just did a random normal and was in Scalecaller Peak. I got both a Jorvuld's hat and resto staff from bosses both of which I already have. There's still a couple of armor pieces and a LOT of weapons I'm missing from my collection that could have dropped but I got pieces I already had in my stickerbook.

I wonder if boss loot pools are being taken into account when reviewing the pieces needed versus what was dropped. For example, the best I could find for what drops what in a dungeon:

Minor bosses will drop one of: Hands, Waist, Feet, or unique item
Bosses will drop one of: Chest, Shoulder, Head, Legs, or unique item
Final bosses will drop one of: Jewelry, Weapon, Shield, or unique item

So if you already have Chest, Shoulder, Head and Legs of all the sets in the dungeon, then you are back to the random drops from normal bosses in a dungeon.

Likewise, if you have already pulled all weapons and jewelry, then you are back to normal random drops on the final boss.

Even if it's based on what the boss should drop, it doesn't explain my dungeon run this afternoon as the Scalecaller hat shouldn't have dropped for me since I'm still missing the Curse of Doylemish helm and I'm missing 7 of the Jorvuld's weapons alone, not including the weapons from the other SCP sets so I should have gotten one of those instead of the resto which I already have.

RodneyRegis

Darkheart wrote: »

I ran 3 dungeon with 1 person in a group. and every time we got a items for her sticker book. She got items she needed for her and I also got the items she needed. But I still needed several items myself.

Looks like when you run a dungeon, you get items someone in the group still needs but that could mean , yourself still get a item you already have but is for another member in the group.

Yes, I think this is right. It's a bug though I think, not as intended.

For example I just ran direfrost and first boss a teammate gets hulking bracers (i need) and i get magicka furnace gloves (already have).

So it's not a loot table thing. If he got it, I should have got it.

Cirantille

This is addictive
I want to collect all now

Ippokrates

DarkPicture wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DarkPicture wrote: »

anyone has issue with not drops of missing item?

I did 3 runs of FG and only 1 item i got others 2 were already in my sticker

The weighted RNG only offers a BETTER chance of getting something you don't already have. It does not GUARANTEE you will get something you don't already have.

In other words, there's still RNG, it's just friendlier towards you.

Actually, this is not true. The "weighting" is 100% on something that is not in your sticker book.

TBH it is not how weighted random work. It is still random, but more balanced, so you shouldn't get the same restoration staff three times in row ;p

Yes, ZOS wrote something different but i have my distance to that ;p


Everyone interested, check Coding Math channel at YT

Its not random, pls check official source not random players who doesnt follow streams

I see that now they call it "curated" system, and sure, it works as they intented. But previously they added this unfortunate "weighted random" which is something different, therefore the misunderstanting

fall0athboy

redspecter23 wrote: »

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

Yep, and now I'm not farming anything until update 32. Once it hits though, I'm farming everything.

I agree. I feel a bit better now since I didn't farm vMA too much during the event. I'll take weighted drops over double drops all day long.

Bingo. I ran vMA once during the event, and finally beat it for my first time ever.

Now that I know I can do it, I'll do it for the bow and not hate myself doing it.

fall0athboy

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Did they mention whether or not Cyrodiil town quest reward coffers will get weighted RNG?

They won't, also treasure chests, simple mob drops and some other specific things won't. It's mostly for dungeon, arena, trials main loot I guess.

Kinda annoyed it's not for simple mob drops.

But oh well, U33 maybe.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've removed several baiting and bashing comments. This is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Forum Rules. Please note that derailing a thread with off-topic or baiting comments will result in the thread being closed.

Thank you for your understanding.

trackdemon5512

SteamKitten01 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SteamKitten01 wrote: »

Just did a random normal and was in Scalecaller Peak. I got both a Jorvuld's hat and resto staff from bosses both of which I already have. There's still a couple of armor pieces and a LOT of weapons I'm missing from my collection that could have dropped but I got pieces I already had in my stickerbook.

I wonder if boss loot pools are being taken into account when reviewing the pieces needed versus what was dropped. For example, the best I could find for what drops what in a dungeon:

Minor bosses will drop one of: Hands, Waist, Feet, or unique item
Bosses will drop one of: Chest, Shoulder, Head, Legs, or unique item
Final bosses will drop one of: Jewelry, Weapon, Shield, or unique item

So if you already have Chest, Shoulder, Head and Legs of all the sets in the dungeon, then you are back to the random drops from normal bosses in a dungeon.

Likewise, if you have already pulled all weapons and jewelry, then you are back to normal random drops on the final boss.

Even if it's based on what the boss should drop, it doesn't explain my dungeon run this afternoon as the Scalecaller hat shouldn't have dropped for me since I'm still missing the Curse of Doylemish helm and I'm missing 7 of the Jorvuld's weapons alone, not including the weapons from the other SCP sets so I should have gotten one of those instead of the resto which I already have.

It’s not a guaranteed drop of something you’re missing. It’s a weighted drop in which the loot table over successive runs leans towards getting you items you currently don’t have.

If you start fresh today everything has the same RNG chance, regardless of having stuff already in your Sticker Book. The chances of those missing items dropping will increase on more runs but it never gets to 100%. The developers said it gets more to like 60%. And when that item does finally drop the RNG for it resets. So no farming and selling BSW infernos in runs by not adding them to your sticker books.

Regardless, ANY run you do still has a chance of any gear set piece dropping based upon the enemy type fought.

cyberjanet

colossalvoids wrote: »

So the last nail into RNG complaints with this one, drops would be adjusted according to what you already collected so no more 10 resto staves in a row for some of ya. Just making sure people are informed about something good nowadays.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Out of 19 weapon items the last boss could have dropped me in Arx (I have all the armour and jewellery), she dropped me something I already had. Zero chance of getting a new item x new weighted RNG = zero. Because anything multiplied by zero is zero.

Wolf_Eye

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

SteamKitten01 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SteamKitten01 wrote: »

Just did a random normal and was in Scalecaller Peak. I got both a Jorvuld's hat and resto staff from bosses both of which I already have. There's still a couple of armor pieces and a LOT of weapons I'm missing from my collection that could have dropped but I got pieces I already had in my stickerbook.

I wonder if boss loot pools are being taken into account when reviewing the pieces needed versus what was dropped. For example, the best I could find for what drops what in a dungeon:

Minor bosses will drop one of: Hands, Waist, Feet, or unique item
Bosses will drop one of: Chest, Shoulder, Head, Legs, or unique item
Final bosses will drop one of: Jewelry, Weapon, Shield, or unique item

So if you already have Chest, Shoulder, Head and Legs of all the sets in the dungeon, then you are back to the random drops from normal bosses in a dungeon.

Likewise, if you have already pulled all weapons and jewelry, then you are back to normal random drops on the final boss.

Even if it's based on what the boss should drop, it doesn't explain my dungeon run this afternoon as the Scalecaller hat shouldn't have dropped for me since I'm still missing the Curse of Doylemish helm and I'm missing 7 of the Jorvuld's weapons alone, not including the weapons from the other SCP sets so I should have gotten one of those instead of the resto which I already have.

It’s not a guaranteed drop of something you’re missing. It’s a weighted drop in which the loot table over successive runs leans towards getting you items you currently don’t have.

If you start fresh today everything has the same RNG chance, regardless of having stuff already in your Sticker Book. The chances of those missing items dropping will increase on more runs but it never gets to 100%. The developers said it gets more to like 60%. And when that item does finally drop the RNG for it resets. So no farming and selling BSW infernos in runs by not adding them to your sticker books.

Regardless, ANY run you do still has a chance of any gear set piece dropping based upon the enemy type fought.

I thought the same, that weighted drops are not guaranteed drops, but some people have been saying there's an official statement that states it's 100% guaranteed to drop something you don't have.

Like the article on Update 32 says : "For example, in Veteran Maelstrom arena, each time you clear the PvE challenge, you’ll receive a Maelstrom weapon that you haven’t yet collected, guaranteeing that eventually you’ll receive the specific item you’re chasing (in my case, the Perfect Crushing Wall staff!) Once you’ve fully collected an item set, any future drops for that set will be random as normal."

Which makes it sound like it's guaranteed each time to give you something you don't have.

Although the previous paragraph in the same article implies the opposite: "With Update 32, in most cases, when an item set drops from a monster, the system will try to give you something that you don’t already own. This change greatly reduces the randomness of your rewards, with each subsequent drop further reducing the potential variation until you’ve collected every piece within a set."

This makes it sound like it's just improved RNG, and that you'll still get variation (RNG and a chance to get something you already have), just that this variation will decrease the more you collected (and increasing the likelihood of getting something you don't have).

I wish ZOS would make a post clarifying in specific terms whether it is guaranteed or just an improved chance.