Update 32 Combat Preview

SoulwayFilth

Nerhesi wrote: »

Proc sets have to do more damage than non Proc by far in pvp. You have to also be punished in other areas - which is what happens today for using Proc sets.

The problem is that pvp offense (non Proc) doesn’t punish you enough in defence. Since this game started, you could be running 5k weapon damage with monster stamina heals.

Everything else is a symptom of this problem.

You can’t have a game where your DPS monsters are also putting out amazing heels and mitigation. Period. This is why this game stands alone in this phenomenon, and also why common in PVP are generally the weakest points of this game.

Stop making robust, dodgy, dps monsters with Great heals.

The only way you will fix this, is by rebuilding pvp separately from the ground up. More traditional health pools, slower regen, dps not being able to heal worth crap. If not, you’re not going to be able to change anything because the “play the way you want” is getting in the way of good, multiple viable builds, meaningful pvp.

Yeah mate. The should have spell/weapon damage apply to damage only & stat pools relate to heal & resource values only.

This decouples healing from damage. Stack stats to heal & tank, stack spell/weapon damage for damage.

SoulwayFilth

Expecting even worse gameplay. Right now the procs are rampant in bg pvp & if you dont have them then goodluck.

When you make broken sets it isnt play as you want. You need those broken sets to try & compete. Otherwise the game is nust hitting your head against the wall.

All this imbalance rewards [snip] play. Like streak is already atrong, but lets make it so you can get a 8k+ proc on it aswell as stun, reposition. Hell, go stamdk, med armor, dc & hroth. Just block, aoe ground, stun/immov. Heal under pressure, have dc back bar so any trouble just cast the ground target spell to pull people away due to no cc on it.

Death recaps are a cc with hroth + dc almost all the time. Was good to see some classes & skills in death recap last patch not sets. I mean you run spreadsheets & data but cant work out that when procs do more than skills there are problems.

Such a joke as performance only allows decent play in bg from lag to then just see new proc spam all the time. Kudos to those not using them & still strong.

Maybe I should stop playing the "trash" classes which have been that way forever. But then again, I cant be bothered grinding a toon to proc city. And then "play how you like" doesnt apply when there is such imbalance.

[edited for profanity bypass]

JobooAGS

As of now we don’t know what the crit damage cap is. So we can stop worrying about our builds until that information is presented

thorwyn

Can't they just let us play the [snip] game at least for a year or so without messing up and adjusting everything patch after patch after patch?
They come up with a mythic item that increases the crit damage and then, a couple of weeks later, they announce that they want to reduce crit damage. [snip] Please, for the love of god, leave the meta alone for a certain time. It's annoying.

[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Annelid01

"better reigns on both"

"on reigning in"

Sorry, I could not let this pass.

Reigning is what monarchs do. They (nominally) rule countries.

Reining is what horse riders do, they slow the horse by use of the reins, hence reining.

Many people seem to get these words mixed up.

So, in this article's case rein and reining are the correct words.

Caranthir1976

[snip]

[snip] More better content and better working servers would do a better job.

[snip]
[edited for bashing & demands]

Tommy_The_Gun

So, judging by what I have read, they want less people to focus on critical damage.

But, the point is, if they will enable proc sets to crit again, as a player, I will literally feel encouraged to do the opposite of what they want to achieve. I am gonna to drop penetration & weapon / spell damage a bit & build myself a decent (around 40%) crit chance, slap 2 proc sets and melt though everything with it.

Now that I think of it, I am surprised that no one is talking about it. Proc sets being able to crit will pretty much lead to resurgence of a tanky build with decent damage in PvP. I mean think of it. Right now, in order for a proc set to do a decent damage, you need a substantial amount of weapon / spell damage investment. So a build has to sacrifice something somewhere. You can not have for example 30K resistance with decent health pool and good damage on top.

But with proc sets being able to crit - it will change. It is easy to get a decent crit chance (around 40%). Mundus + Weapon trait and you are almost there. So I am pretty sure that this is exactly what will happen. Tanky build with 2 proc sets and a reasonable crit chance.... It does not matter that sets at base will hit for less (as they scale with your stats) since you will be able to make them hit harder with crit damage - for like 100 - 150% more...

jaws343

Caranthir1976 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip] More better content and better working servers would do a better job.

[snip]

They are telling us tomorrow with the pts patch notes.

[edited to remove quote]

UrbWzrd

If it would be a single player game, do whatever you like, but sword & sorcery type hybrids are not way to go. Mag classes can use melee weapons but stam classes can not use staves. I think mag classes should not be able to use melee. As for the hybrid, what u mean is just killing the difference between mag and stamina, that is not hybrid but simply equiling both resources. Also, as one people already mentioned, you already deeped class identity and I don't know what is going on with DK but you wiped NB as a class. And for CP2.0, all options we simply don't use anyway doesn't count as variety. Also why a cp1500 should be same with cp3000? I may not be as talented or social, but still deserve a Gryphon Heart after all these long years playing.

UrbWzrd

Styxius wrote: »

Limiting critical strike damage and repeating one of the biggest negatives that ever occurred in PvP/PvE of letting proc sets crit again raises an insane amount of concern for where this is going. I am extremely concerned with the direction you're taking this as this patch is very good in terms of PvE feel. Reigning in the power creep while Xalvakka HM remains one of the hardest checks for DPS to ever come to the game seems ill-sighted. I appreciate the forward notice of these ideas but these are too far and limit play styles. You're on one hand saying you want people to have an expanded play as you wish, but then are reducing someone's ability to just play a crit style build. Hybridization is a good and bad thing. It's good for options, but bad for diversity. Diversity is good so I hope there's a large amount of discussion to make sure the tree is expanding rather than contracting in the end. I only bring this up as it would be devastating to repeat the mistakes of the Scalebreaker patch again. Letting proc sets crit was devasting for the longest time and I fear that this will not make it any better for the proc metas of PvP and PvE. This patch was the first time in ages that Relequen could be beaten for stamina players. To turn around and let procs crit which may affect relequen could be devastating. This could be good for bringing back monster sets into the lime light but we absolutely need more details on what the plan is regarding this. It is disheartening to see crit damage be capped, and it's alarming to see the return of proc crits. I usually am very optimistic when seeing patch updates as they have gotten better since the damage of scalebreaker. I just am hesitant as I deeply love this game and would hate to see class diversity and playstyle diversity die. Hybridization can be good but it HAS to be regulated otherwise everything homogenizes and becomes one. Seeing Mag DPS running relequen could be in the near future with these changes. Seeing stamina DPS look at Bahsei and running just a cheap mag ability to dump for high DPS boosts could occur alongside it. I'll refrain from further details at this time. I'm just apprehensive seeing limitations being pushed and a potential narrowing in capabilities. I also see this leading to a DPS increase at this rate as well.

General hybrits just kills diversity. If there will be a hybrid, it should be limited within classes, like a NB can use both a stam and mag set and will still be a good one. Just adding sets every stat is not hybrid but ***.

Lortie

Do. Not. Let. Proc. Sets. Crit.

It's insane to me that the combat team did not learn from the first time procs could crit.

Also, what happened to the "aimed to lower the ease of access of “free” damage"? Hrothgar and Dark Convergence are a DIRECT contradiction to that design philosophy. They are (in most cases in pvp) the most effective for little to no investment. You don't need any weapon/spell damage to get 10-15k hrothgar procs, and could you imagine if it was able to crit?

Jaraal

Lortie wrote: »

You don't need any weapon/spell damage to get 10-15k hrothgar procs, and could you imagine if it was able to crit?

Wait until it drops on the PTS, then decide.




Oh, wait. PTS Cyrodiil is no proc. Nevermind.

Lortie

Jaraal wrote: »

Lortie wrote: »

You don't need any weapon/spell damage to get 10-15k hrothgar procs, and could you imagine if it was able to crit?

Wait until it drops on the PTS, then decide.




Oh, wait. PTS Cyrodiil is no proc. Nevermind.

You love to see it.

I can't wait to see all the Acuity backbar + proc sets next patch.

Tommy_The_Gun

Lortie wrote: »

Do. Not. Let. Proc. Sets. Crit.

It's insane to me that the combat team did not learn from the first time procs could crit.

Also, what happened to the "aimed to lower the ease of access of “free” damage"? Hrothgar and Dark Convergence are a DIRECT contradiction to that design philosophy. They are (in most cases in pvp) the most effective for little to no investment. You don't need any weapon/spell damage to get 10-15k hrothgar procs, and could you imagine if it was able to crit?

Yep. Game is much different now than it was back then when proc sets could crit. A lot of those sets had a % chance to proc, back then, and it served as a balancing factor. Less people were using certain sets if those had like 5% chance to proc.

But since they re-worked pretty much all proc sets and removed % proc chance, if they add ability for those sets to crit, then it will get even worse than it was back in the day when proc sets could crit. You will be literally able one-shot tanks either from NB cloak or by using Mechanical Acuity on any other class. 5pcs Proc set + Monster set proc + ulti and you will be most likely able to macro-kill people (even the tankier ones).

It was said many times that making proc sets able to crit again should not be a thing, at least in PvP. If they want to make proc sets more prominent in PvE, then they should add a condition to battle spirit so that it would not allow sets to deal critical damage.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Lortie wrote: »

Do. Not. Let. Proc. Sets. Crit.

It's insane to me that the combat team did not learn from the first time procs could crit.

Also, what happened to the "aimed to lower the ease of access of “free” damage"? Hrothgar and Dark Convergence are a DIRECT contradiction to that design philosophy. They are (in most cases in pvp) the most effective for little to no investment. You don't need any weapon/spell damage to get 10-15k hrothgar procs, and could you imagine if it was able to crit?

Yep. Game is much different now than it was back then when proc sets could crit. A lot of those sets had a % chance to proc, back then, and it served as a balancing factor. Less people were using certain sets if those had like 5% chance to proc.

But since they re-worked pretty much all proc sets and removed % proc chance, if they add ability for those sets to crit, then it will get even worse than it was back in the day when proc sets could crit. You will be literally able one-shot tanks either from NB cloak or by using Mechanical Acuity on any other class. 5pcs Proc set + Monster set proc + ulti and you will be most likely able to macro-kill people (even the tankier ones).

It was said many times that making proc sets able to crit again should not be a thing, at least in PvP. If they want to make proc sets more prominent in PvE, then they should add a condition to battle spirit so that it would not allow sets to deal critical damage.

God forbid PVP and PVE are balanced separately.

UrbWzrd

When you say a hybrid build, what I understand a build, where I can mix magica and stamina stats, I can mix magica and stamina skills, I can arm magica and stamina weapons and armors and still have a feasible build.

But what ZOS understands as a hybrid build is no mater what you equip, you still have the same outcome. You don't need to care which sets you use, which skills you equip, which stats you favor, just do what fancies you more. You don't need to choose a direction, because there is no direction to choose. Everything is painted to the same color.

I don't know how this creates a hybridization. And I believe the aim with hybridization is to create variety, diversity. How come with ZOS approach this will be accomplished?

A year ago I was out crying ZOS creating PONG MMO. Limiting shining stats, killing class identities and constant nerfs for the sake of endless and meaningless balance manifesto. And these last updated with the hybrid manifesto will put the last nail to the coffin.

UrbWzrd

And one last thing. How cp2.0 brought choice variety? There are still shining slots and useless ones. There is no horisantal growth. Still after 1500 we have useless options, not much different than cp1.0. I don't convert my dd on the fly to a tank, so all those slots spare are still useless.

Elsonso

UrbWzrd wrote: »

But what ZOS understands as a hybrid build is no mater what you equip, you still have the same outcome. You don't need to care which sets you use, which skills you equip, which stats you favor, just do what fancies you more. You don't need to choose a direction, because there is no direction to choose. Everything is painted to the same color.

This was what I was thinking ZOS was trending towards... but ZOS suggests the need to wait until PTS because we are misunderstanding something. Fine. I can wait a few more hours to be proven correct.

moleculardrugs

[Edited to Remove Double Quotes]

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings! It’s about that time again where we have another Update coming soon, even though Update 31 just released on consoles last week. With a new PTS update lurking around the corner, the combat team wanted to give you all some deep dives into the spicier stuff coming with this upcoming patch.

In the last Update, we tried to keep things simpler with the number of changes to help combat the change fatigue many have reported, but progress cannot sleep for long as we march ever forward to improving the game. Our focus in Update 32 is two-fold: improving proc set balance and continuing the hybridization improvements from previous updates. These areas are the topics we’ve seen a significant amount of discussion on in the realms of combat balance, so we’re following up to try and get better reigns on both.

In Update 30 we introduced item proc set scaling, which aimed to lower the ease of access of “free” damage and healing from them by ensuring you needed a base line of stats to make the set really stand out. While this did help significantly reduce the overbearing success of tanky builds utilizing damage-oriented sets, it also increased the amount of damage that glass cannon and more offensive-oriented builds did by a reasonable margin. This, while an intentional result, still has the issue of the power available when stacking multiples of these sets, and how certain combinations are leading to very binary and unengaging gameplay. To target that issue, we’re introducing a new rule set for offensive item sets that have low counterplay. Now when wearing a set that deals a “burst of damage” within a 4 second window, it will prevent any other use of these types of sets for 1 second. This is to deny the ability to layer multiple effects into single attacks, significantly reducing burst potential. This rule set will be explained in further detail in the PTS patch notes, and keep in mind we are open to adjusting this along the way.

In relation to this, we’re also aiming our sights on reigning in some of the power creep that’s been coming into the game as of late, particularly affecting PvE. The dominance of Critical hits in ESO is by no means new, and despite the reduction to the overall sourcing of it, we’re still seeing it win out by a significant margin when compared to other stats. Rather than outright nerfing Critical Chance or Potency (Damage and Healing) and hurting builds that aren’t really doing more than we expect, we’ve decided to move forward with a hard cap to Critical Damage and Healing. It is our hope that this keeps Critical Chance and Potency as viable and powerful stats but also helps open up other stat and build paths. Much like the Penetration stats, these will be important to prioritize up until a point, and from there builds will want to seek out other sources of power.

To tie things up in the proc set and Critical topics for this Update, we’re also making a fairly significant adjustment that we hope the previously mentioned changes will prevent from becoming too out of hand: Proc sets that scale with your Weapon or Spell Damage, Magicka, or Stamina will now once again be able to Critically strike in Update 32. By doing this, in addition to reducing the burst potential when stacking these sets and limiting the amount they can Critically strike for, we hope to give these sets some much needed love in PvE situations where they’ve struggled to maintain viability after the removal of their ability to critically strike in ye years of olde. There will be additional balance adjustments to these values to try and prevent them from becoming the best in slot, and we’ll have rules on which ones can and cannot crit, so keep your eyes peeled for the list and details in the PTS patch notes!

Aside from these changes and the usual bug fixing and less flashy/global adjustments (like some long overdue Dragonknight love), we have one more “big” change coming this Update. As mentioned before, hybridization improvements have been a push in many Updates ever since Champion Point 2.0 was released in Update 29, and it’s something we’re continuing with as we see a lot of the good it does. ESO has always tried to hold itself to the mantra of “play the way you want” but a lot of our stats and ability calculations actively push against this concept in ways we find less than ideal. In Update 32, we’re taking the next big approach to change the concept of what a hybrid is by making all item sets grant “hybrid” stats. This means sets that grant Weapon Damage will now grant Weapon and Spell Damage, Spell Penetration will be Physical and Spell Penetration, and Spell Critical will be Weapon and Spell Critical. With this change, we hope to open up builds to new abilities and ideas, make the game more digestible and understandable to newer players, and empower you with choices when creating your dream build.

Our focus with this upcoming PTS update will be heavily concentrated on ensuring that the item set proc adjustments with critting and prevention release in a way that improves the gameplay balance, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on those topics. We look forward to seeing the myriad of discussions that pop up, as we know there will be much to theory craft and mull over. Thanks for reading and see you in Tamriel!

Please change the META. I am a new player, currently with CP 1394 (started 6 months ago). What i have noticed since my time playing ESO, which I love btw is that there is a lot of people who think the game should be played a specific way… let me explain, when running a random group dungeon delve people love to throw out the terms “fake tank” and “fake healer.” Literally, who decided that there was an ideal canon for the healer or tank. The healer should heal and keep you alive the entire time. Your team should also be able to help the healer be able to heal their best. The tank should not die from hits and be able to absorb hits. And yet there’s groups who will kick people out of a random dungeon just for using an inferno staff versus restoration staff or having above 18K health as a DPS. It’s a normal dungeon for Pete’s sake! This isn’t Vet and it’s definitely not Vet Scale-caller so chill. I have also rejected group kick votes on players with low CP because they won’t “have enough DPS” to pass a dungeon. People need to learn to adapt. Other play-styles exist besides the ones on Alcast 😂 healers can taunt if it helps the tank. DPS can carry heal moves to assist the entire group in clearing a dungeon.

Firstmep

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So, judging by what I have read, they want less people to focus on critical damage.

But, the point is, if they will enable proc sets to crit again, as a player, I will literally feel encouraged to do the opposite of what they want to achieve. I am gonna to drop penetration & weapon / spell damage a bit & build myself a decent (around 40%) crit chance, slap 2 proc sets and melt though everything with it.

Now that I think of it, I am surprised that no one is talking about it. Proc sets being able to crit will pretty much lead to resurgence of a tanky build with decent damage in PvP. I mean think of it. Right now, in order for a proc set to do a decent damage, you need a substantial amount of weapon / spell damage investment. So a build has to sacrifice something somewhere. You can not have for example 30K resistance with decent health pool and good damage on top.

But with proc sets being able to crit - it will change. It is easy to get a decent crit chance (around 40%). Mundus + Weapon trait and you are almost there. So I am pretty sure that this is exactly what will happen. Tanky build with 2 proc sets and a reasonable crit chance.... It does not matter that sets at base will hit for less (as they scale with your stats) since you will be able to make them hit harder with crit damage - for like 100 - 150% more...

Yeah, it's almost as if they should've thought about it and gave procsets a cd or maybe capped crit dmg in the same update. Oh wait..

gronoxvx

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

ESO meta makes my head hurt..

-DOT meta!
>Okey we go DOTs, let me refarm/transmute/gold all my gear
-No! I mean PROC meta!
>Okey we go proc, let me refarm/transmute/gold all my gear
-NO! Crit! Meta!
>Okey we got crit! , let me refarm/transmute/gold all my gear and farm leads for the new mythic
-NO! Everyone back to procs, but now.. complicated!
>........

I love you Zos.. but bruh..

It wasnt that long ago where they said they were going to stop the crazy changes every patch. So seeing another patch of crazy changes is the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people i feel

UrbWzrd

moleculardrugs wrote: »

[Edited to Remove Double Quotes]

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings! It’s about that time again where we have another Update coming soon, even though Update 31 just released on consoles last week. With a new PTS update lurking around the corner, the combat team wanted to give you all some deep dives into the spicier stuff coming with this upcoming patch.

In the last Update, we tried to keep things simpler with the number of changes to help combat the change fatigue many have reported, but progress cannot sleep for long as we march ever forward to improving the game. Our focus in Update 32 is two-fold: improving proc set balance and continuing the hybridization improvements from previous updates. These areas are the topics we’ve seen a significant amount of discussion on in the realms of combat balance, so we’re following up to try and get better reigns on both.

In Update 30 we introduced item proc set scaling, which aimed to lower the ease of access of “free” damage and healing from them by ensuring you needed a base line of stats to make the set really stand out. While this did help significantly reduce the overbearing success of tanky builds utilizing damage-oriented sets, it also increased the amount of damage that glass cannon and more offensive-oriented builds did by a reasonable margin. This, while an intentional result, still has the issue of the power available when stacking multiples of these sets, and how certain combinations are leading to very binary and unengaging gameplay. To target that issue, we’re introducing a new rule set for offensive item sets that have low counterplay. Now when wearing a set that deals a “burst of damage” within a 4 second window, it will prevent any other use of these types of sets for 1 second. This is to deny the ability to layer multiple effects into single attacks, significantly reducing burst potential. This rule set will be explained in further detail in the PTS patch notes, and keep in mind we are open to adjusting this along the way.

In relation to this, we’re also aiming our sights on reigning in some of the power creep that’s been coming into the game as of late, particularly affecting PvE. The dominance of Critical hits in ESO is by no means new, and despite the reduction to the overall sourcing of it, we’re still seeing it win out by a significant margin when compared to other stats. Rather than outright nerfing Critical Chance or Potency (Damage and Healing) and hurting builds that aren’t really doing more than we expect, we’ve decided to move forward with a hard cap to Critical Damage and Healing. It is our hope that this keeps Critical Chance and Potency as viable and powerful stats but also helps open up other stat and build paths. Much like the Penetration stats, these will be important to prioritize up until a point, and from there builds will want to seek out other sources of power.

To tie things up in the proc set and Critical topics for this Update, we’re also making a fairly significant adjustment that we hope the previously mentioned changes will prevent from becoming too out of hand: Proc sets that scale with your Weapon or Spell Damage, Magicka, or Stamina will now once again be able to Critically strike in Update 32. By doing this, in addition to reducing the burst potential when stacking these sets and limiting the amount they can Critically strike for, we hope to give these sets some much needed love in PvE situations where they’ve struggled to maintain viability after the removal of their ability to critically strike in ye years of olde. There will be additional balance adjustments to these values to try and prevent them from becoming the best in slot, and we’ll have rules on which ones can and cannot crit, so keep your eyes peeled for the list and details in the PTS patch notes!

Aside from these changes and the usual bug fixing and less flashy/global adjustments (like some long overdue Dragonknight love), we have one more “big” change coming this Update. As mentioned before, hybridization improvements have been a push in many Updates ever since Champion Point 2.0 was released in Update 29, and it’s something we’re continuing with as we see a lot of the good it does. ESO has always tried to hold itself to the mantra of “play the way you want” but a lot of our stats and ability calculations actively push against this concept in ways we find less than ideal. In Update 32, we’re taking the next big approach to change the concept of what a hybrid is by making all item sets grant “hybrid” stats. This means sets that grant Weapon Damage will now grant Weapon and Spell Damage, Spell Penetration will be Physical and Spell Penetration, and Spell Critical will be Weapon and Spell Critical. With this change, we hope to open up builds to new abilities and ideas, make the game more digestible and understandable to newer players, and empower you with choices when creating your dream build.

Our focus with this upcoming PTS update will be heavily concentrated on ensuring that the item set proc adjustments with critting and prevention release in a way that improves the gameplay balance, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on those topics. We look forward to seeing the myriad of discussions that pop up, as we know there will be much to theory craft and mull over. Thanks for reading and see you in Tamriel!

Please change the META. I am a new player, currently with CP 1394 (started 6 months ago). What i have noticed since my time playing ESO, which I love btw is that there is a lot of people who think the game should be played a specific way… let me explain, when running a random group dungeon delve people love to throw out the terms “fake tank” and “fake healer.” Literally, who decided that there was an ideal canon for the healer or tank. The healer should heal and keep you alive the entire time. Your team should also be able to help the healer be able to heal their best. The tank should not die from hits and be able to absorb hits. And yet there’s groups who will kick people out of a random dungeon just for using an inferno staff versus restoration staff or having above 18K health as a DPS. It’s a normal dungeon for Pete’s sake! This isn’t Vet and it’s definitely not Vet Scale-caller so chill. I have also rejected group kick votes on players with low CP because they won’t “have enough DPS” to pass a dungeon. People need to learn to adapt. Other play-styles exist besides the ones on Alcast 😂 healers can taunt if it helps the tank. DPS can carry heal moves to assist the entire group in clearing a dungeon.

What you say and what ZOS is doing have nothing in common. I hate also people kicking others in dungeons. But still, you need to be effective in a group, otherwise others just carries you. As long as you do well no one cares how you do it. ZOS on the other hand is doing just the opposite of what you ask; creating one single META you cannot change.

UrbWzrd

Firstmep wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So, judging by what I have read, they want less people to focus on critical damage.

But, the point is, if they will enable proc sets to crit again, as a player, I will literally feel encouraged to do the opposite of what they want to achieve. I am gonna to drop penetration & weapon / spell damage a bit & build myself a decent (around 40%) crit chance, slap 2 proc sets and melt though everything with it.

Now that I think of it, I am surprised that no one is talking about it. Proc sets being able to crit will pretty much lead to resurgence of a tanky build with decent damage in PvP. I mean think of it. Right now, in order for a proc set to do a decent damage, you need a substantial amount of weapon / spell damage investment. So a build has to sacrifice something somewhere. You can not have for example 30K resistance with decent health pool and good damage on top.

But with proc sets being able to crit - it will change. It is easy to get a decent crit chance (around 40%). Mundus + Weapon trait and you are almost there. So I am pretty sure that this is exactly what will happen. Tanky build with 2 proc sets and a reasonable crit chance.... It does not matter that sets at base will hit for less (as they scale with your stats) since you will be able to make them hit harder with crit damage - for like 100 - 150% more...

Yeah, it's almost as if they should've thought about it and gave procsets a cd or maybe capped crit dmg in the same update. Oh wait..

Yea, you wonder the master mind behind it!

Exterminatus

mmmm, if we talking hybridization can we also change the stats of all sets that give only stamina also magicka and health? Cause the whole mantra of "playing as you want" is that I like the effect of the set and want to play the way I want it but since its stamina based or magicka based or health based I am stuck using it for a particular build rather than "I like this affect" right? also seems like these updates are based for PVP rather than PVE. I think everyone can agree the more damage there is on PVE the better it is for everyone. (Might be only for some people or just me but I more damage in dungeons). Also in PVE sword and board skill line needs more loving as any builds using sword and board are super boring. And again for the 5 billionth time please think about AOE taunts (I hate stabbing each ad every 10-15 seconds when dealing with groups, or spitting a red line)

In general being more controlling of certain aspects of the game is restricting people getting creative with builds in general. The more you lower, hard cap, soft cap something it restricts creativity we as players can use. Let players do what they want! Build whatever they want! Instead of balancing by introducing nerfs please create counter sets/builds.

Whatever, but I have a huge problem with people saying, "play how you want" and then restricting everything. Hypocrites at its finest.

James-Wayne

So if we are introducing a crit damage cap I guess we can expect to see more crit damage focused sets coming in future updates like we've recently seen with Sul Xan.

moleculardrugs

Firstmep wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So, judging by what I have read, they want less people to focus on critical damage.

But, the point is, if they will enable proc sets to crit again, as a player, I will literally feel encouraged to do the opposite of what they want to achieve. I am gonna to drop penetration & weapon / spell damage a bit & build myself a decent (around 40%) crit chance, slap 2 proc sets and melt though everything with it.

Now that I think of it, I am surprised that no one is talking about it. Proc sets being able to crit will pretty much lead to resurgence of a tanky build with decent damage in PvP. I mean think of it. Right now, in order for a proc set to do a decent damage, you need a substantial amount of weapon / spell damage investment. So a build has to sacrifice something somewhere. You can not have for example 30K resistance with decent health pool and good damage on top.

But with proc sets being able to crit - it will change. It is easy to get a decent crit chance (around 40%). Mundus + Weapon trait and you are almost there. So I am pretty sure that this is exactly what will happen. Tanky build with 2 proc sets and a reasonable crit chance.... It does not matter that sets at base will hit for less (as they scale with your stats) since you will be able to make them hit harder with crit damage - for like 100 - 150% more...

Yeah, it's almost as if they should've thought about it and gave procsets a cd or maybe capped crit dmg in the same update. Oh wait..

What if they introduced another factor that could counteract crit but also was a league of its own? Not talking about impenetrable trait but something that would have a mundus stone to it, like “Critical Defense” where at random times you are able to block more. So say you have 30% critical defense and you’re going against someone with 40% critical damage, that critical defense could come in handy. However, because Crit Defense is competing with Penetration, Spell Damage, Stam Recovery, etc., the player has to take it into account for their build.

It’s far easier to control instability by adding in more factors rather than isolating factors. ‘Competition’ amongst traits might balance the trait imbalances they are always changing/fixing.

Edit: like you could even rely more on the environment for builds too. Say rain or being near lava will weaken or strengthen some moves or let you gain/lose buffs. Seriously, the sky is the limit and all they need is a little creativity to enact variables that would affect/effect gameplay

Edit 2: I maxed out on the amount of toons (18/18) I can have and it’s because I love customizing and changing tiny traits (sub classes like werewolf or vampire) they have to see how well they perform or underperform in PvE, PvP, and Solo. If they added more “variables” or abilities/attributes/mundus stones then the game would balance itself out because everything would basically have a counter to it.

Now it’s probably cause I studied biology that makes me think this, but in a rain forest there’s an abundant amount of species and this brings balance to the ecosystem. If you only allow a certain number of species, you create imbalances. But the addition of randomness into an ecosystem helps provide balance. Fight chaos with chaos I say.

Edit 3:
The biggest downfall for ESO is that it tries to be innovative while at the same time keeping itself stuck in its own rules that it’s made up. They have at their hands the ability to create an actual virtual world and yet they’re limiting themselves by setting 3 attributes, an X about of mundus stones, a set amount of weapon types, set amount of elements or status effects, etc.

katorga

Remember when we went through all the performance tests, set limits, no heals, aoe cooldowns, and all the other tests? All trying to fix performance. And now ZOS goes 180 degrees and creates the most complicated aoe proc sets ever, and NOW we get 1 second set cooldowns?

How on earth is that "performant"?

katorga

Elsonso wrote: »

"All item sets will now provide hybrid stats."

Not a fan of this idea. Unless I am misreading the intent, this just seems to dilute the stats as we slowly sneak up on the idea of there just being a "combat stat" and everything draws from that.

Yep. It is going to create some crazy unbalanced pvp builds.

Imagine if Leviathan/Mother's Sorrow builds become meta, . Guess that's why crit caps are incoming.

GoopCooper69

Homogenization =/= hybrid

Elsonso

GoopCooper69 wrote: »

Homogenization =/= hybrid

Right. It does not. They keep using "hybrid" when they mean "homogeneous".