Update 32 Combat Preview

GrumpyDuckling

Are there any plans on hybridizing more of the class skills as well?
For example, could there be any changes to Summon Winged Twilight that would make it so that it's morphs aren't just magicka-based?

GoopCooper69

Dark Convergence and Hrothgar will be able to crit??? Are yall serious?? [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

KurtAngle2

@Decimus This patch is 100% is for you

UnbrokenCurse

Spell and weapon damage gonna need hella buffed, unless you intend to remove damage checks and cut every trial bosses hp in half that crit is needed in endgame. With how this would impact nightblades the most you should give them a 50% boost from incap to balance things

Alendrin

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam
Any focus on

1) 49000 days debuff/buff bug
2) Position Desync after knockback/up in PVP
3) Slow walking bug in pvp
4) will stam and magicka be linked in the same way as weapon and spell dmg?
5) 1 second cooldown on proc condition or on dmg occurring? for example Will dying to Hrothgar / Dark Convergence still proc VD?
6) Any rebalancing of the proc sets introduced from last patch based on the bugs and lack of counterplay they offer?

Really good list. I would add stuck in combat bug, losing connection when approaching a large fight, break free failing mid animation, combat skills failing mid animation (even self targeted ones), and occasionally getting into situations where skills don't work and you have to restart the client (might be related to #1) - all of these in cyrodil.

Many of these bugs have been around for multiple years and are not even acknowledged, much less fixed.

redspecter23

It's mentioned that burst proc damage will have a cooldown. How will players know which abilities fall under this category? Will it be clearly marked? If two burst abilities would proc at the same time what happens? Does one simply not proc and potentially proc instead 1 second later? Does it "queue" itself up and proc 1 second later automatically? Is the ability simply lost and forced into cooldown? Some procs have extremely long cooldowns. Simply losing the ability and being forced into cooldown would massively affect the power level of that particular set.

There are too many variables here to know for sure what the impact will be but knowing what the intent is will definitely help when it comes time to test.

Tommy_The_Gun

So... umm... Who else is moving to Ravenwatch ?

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

Lol proc sets critting is gonna be a nightmare in pvp once again, this can be solved if... *gasp* they seperate pve and pvp! I hope no proc flourishes.

scelesticscylla

Sad to hear about the healing and crit cap. I honestly dont think that is going to help anything but just hurt combat in general. As for the hybridization of things, I also dont think that is going to help but instead hurt combat as well as end game groups. Like others said above, skills and potions and buffs and attributes contributing to why we all choose mag or stam in the first place are why hybridization doesnt work. You still will end up "a jack of all trades is a master of none" in which you will severely hurt your role as well as team if you choose to hybrid still. Unless those things change, hybrids still will not be viable even with armor changes. I think that this hasnt been fully thought through and that there still needs to be reworking on that part before it can become a possibility. As for people upset about hrothgar and dark convergence, I can say first hand from just last night that neither destroy ball groups like they are supposed to. With all the dc and hroth going off on a ball group we fought last night it didnt even touch them. If anything the sets are good at picking off "pug zergs" more than anything. (Though it is fun to play with both sets, as im guilty of running both). In any case, I know a lot of people are not going to like these changes, and I feel the majority of us will continue to agree that this is not what is needed for changes to come in game.

Styxius

Limiting critical strike damage and repeating one of the biggest negatives that ever occurred in PvP/PvE of letting proc sets crit again raises an insane amount of concern for where this is going. I am extremely concerned with the direction you're taking this as this patch is very good in terms of PvE feel. Reigning in the power creep while Xalvakka HM remains one of the hardest checks for DPS to ever come to the game seems ill-sighted. I appreciate the forward notice of these ideas but these are too far and limit play styles. You're on one hand saying you want people to have an expanded play as you wish, but then are reducing someone's ability to just play a crit style build. Hybridization is a good and bad thing. It's good for options, but bad for diversity. Diversity is good so I hope there's a large amount of discussion to make sure the tree is expanding rather than contracting in the end. I only bring this up as it would be devastating to repeat the mistakes of the Scalebreaker patch again. Letting proc sets crit was devasting for the longest time and I fear that this will not make it any better for the proc metas of PvP and PvE. This patch was the first time in ages that Relequen could be beaten for stamina players. To turn around and let procs crit which may affect relequen could be devastating. This could be good for bringing back monster sets into the lime light but we absolutely need more details on what the plan is regarding this. It is disheartening to see crit damage be capped, and it's alarming to see the return of proc crits. I usually am very optimistic when seeing patch updates as they have gotten better since the damage of scalebreaker. I just am hesitant as I deeply love this game and would hate to see class diversity and playstyle diversity die. Hybridization can be good but it HAS to be regulated otherwise everything homogenizes and becomes one. Seeing Mag DPS running relequen could be in the near future with these changes. Seeing stamina DPS look at Bahsei and running just a cheap mag ability to dump for high DPS boosts could occur alongside it. I'll refrain from further details at this time. I'm just apprehensive seeing limitations being pushed and a potential narrowing in capabilities. I also see this leading to a DPS increase at this rate as well.

Marto

code65536 wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

I still can't believe what I'm reading.

This is going to be a really fundamental change to ESO

A lot of item sets work on the premise that they are the opposite stat of one another. Are sets like Hunding's Rage and Law of Julianos going to be merged into the same set?


What about sets that are only remotely balanced because they only exist for stamina builds, because magicka builds having access to them would be overpowered (or vice versa)


If so many things are hybridized, does that mean this is what your stat screen will look like in the near future?


None of these ideas are objectively bad or anything. I might not even be opposed to them. But it is a huge change, with the potential to be the biggest update to ESO since Update 6.

Juli and Hunding will still differ in the Mag/Stam bonuses.

Moon Hunter will still be a light armor set.

These are only some examples.
There are dozens, if not hundreds of item sets in the game that are designed in such a way.

Tigertron

Hybridization is cool and all. When it’s outside of traditional roles and creative. But this to sounds more like homogenization. Class identity has always been weak but now I think it’s getting to the point where you guys should just make sword class or staff class. And let us dress the part we pretend to be.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

code65536 wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

I still can't believe what I'm reading.

This is going to be a really fundamental change to ESO

A lot of item sets work on the premise that they are the opposite stat of one another. Are sets like Hunding's Rage and Law of Julianos going to be merged into the same set?


What about sets that are only remotely balanced because they only exist for stamina builds, because magicka builds having access to them would be overpowered (or vice versa)


If so many things are hybridized, does that mean this is what your stat screen will look like in the near future?


None of these ideas are objectively bad or anything. I might not even be opposed to them. But it is a huge change, with the potential to be the biggest update to ESO since Update 6.

Juli and Hunding will still differ in the Mag/Stam bonuses.

Moon Hunter will still be a light armor set.

AY is a heavy set and was one of the best sets to use for Stam, so it being light armor means absolutely nothing. One line of Mag/Stam is also negligible.

Can't wait to see how they balance all this lmaoo.

Fantastic way to lower the ceiling and raise the floor. Obviously it's too early to tell how true that is but it looks like that's what they're going for.

Tigertron

code65536 wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

I still can't believe what I'm reading.

This is going to be a really fundamental change to ESO

A lot of item sets work on the premise that they are the opposite stat of one another. Are sets like Hunding's Rage and Law of Julianos going to be merged into the same set?


What about sets that are only remotely balanced because they only exist for stamina builds, because magicka builds having access to them would be overpowered (or vice versa)


If so many things are hybridized, does that mean this is what your stat screen will look like in the near future?


None of these ideas are objectively bad or anything. I might not even be opposed to them. But it is a huge change, with the potential to be the biggest update to ESO since Update 6.

Juli and Hunding will still differ in the Mag/Stam bonuses.

Moon Hunter will still be a light armor set.

Weapons and jewelry do not have weight

Also did you miss…
“ the concept of what a hybrid is by making all item sets grant “hybrid” stats. This means sets that grant Weapon Damage will now grant Weapon and Spell Damage, Spell Penetration will be Physical and Spell Penetration, and Spell Critical will be Weapon and Spell Critical. ”

IronWooshu

Alendrin wrote: »

Proc sets being able to crit in PVP really scares me, but have to test before freaking out.

Otherwise like the changes.

But bro.....performance? You been in the game recently? In cyrodil?

Sure if crit damage wasnt being capped. You don't know what they are gonna cap crit damage at, 50%? 60%? or nerf it right down to nothing like 30%

UtopianWarrior88

If possible, could we get a reduction in the size of Colossus? As a tank it's really blocking visual clues as to what mechanics might be happening.
Or maybe the visibility to others? Include it in hidden ground effects for example?

Finwych

I have one suggestion. Don't you think it's time to remove THE DAMN DOORS from Wayrest Sewers and City of Ash?

FrankonPC

I wonder if the servers running checks on crit chance for proc sets will have a positive or negative impact on performance.

Tommy_The_Gun

I wonder how sets that are already a "hybrid" sets will work, Like Eternal Vigor for example:

(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(5 items) Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Does each recovery bonus will be doubled to be stamina & magicka recovery ? What about health recovery then ? It will be pale in comparison. Same for max health bonus or armour bonus. They need to really think this changes over, otherwise it is going to be an obvious mess with some stats being drastically underpowered.

TooWeak2Live

TL;DR:

1. Another set of radical combat adjustments that will force everyone to retool again.
2. Another attempt to nerf PvE damage while introducing bosses with utterly absurd HP and damage.
3. Absolutely nothing that will address ANY of the enormous problems in PvP.

Carbohydrate

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

we’re taking the next big approach to change the concept of what a hybrid is by making all item sets grant “hybrid” stats. This means sets that grant Weapon Damage will now grant Weapon and Spell Damage, Spell Penetration will be Physical and Spell Penetration, and Spell Critical will be Weapon and Spell Critical.

Will this include stats like max mag/stam and mag/stam recovery?

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

FrankonPC wrote: »

I wonder if the servers running checks on crit chance for proc sets will have a positive or negative impact on performance.

Lol I did not even think of this! Killing it as per usual!

blktauna

Alendrin wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam
Any focus on

1) 49000 days debuff/buff bug
2) Position Desync after knockback/up in PVP
3) Slow walking bug in pvp
4) will stam and magicka be linked in the same way as weapon and spell dmg?
5) 1 second cooldown on proc condition or on dmg occurring? for example Will dying to Hrothgar / Dark Convergence still proc VD?
6) Any rebalancing of the proc sets introduced from last patch based on the bugs and lack of counterplay they offer?

Really good list. I would add stuck in combat bug, losing connection when approaching a large fight, break free failing mid animation, combat skills failing mid animation (even self targeted ones), and occasionally getting into situations where skills don't work and you have to restart the client (might be related to #1) - all of these in cyrodil.

Many of these bugs have been around for multiple years and are not even acknowledged, much less fixed.

Can I get a load of upvote for this one please...

Br1ckst0n

Good luck with rebalancing essentially every set + skill for hybrid stats. Sounds like the crit cap will just effect end game raid groups that can actually keep all the buffs/debuffs up so yeah. I like the proc set crit for pve but not for pvp. Oh and now that i think about it, races probably need some rebalancing for this too...

ajkb78

I've been hoping for a magicka version of AY for ages. Turns out my wish is granted, the magicka version will be... AY!

Regarding power checks though, your problem isn't top end DPS, it's the *range* of DPS. Current trifectas are just barely possible with current DPS, so if you nerf DPS, they risk becoming impossible (or you get into a cycle of adjusting times for speed runs and DPS races every patch, which I'd suggest you really don't want to start). At the other end, current top DPS makes early content a complete cakewalk. What's the speed record for VHR now? Not very long. On the other hand, judging by randoms encountered in dungeon finder, very few of the player base are actually hitting the current top damage levels, so really you're still basing your balance and power judgements on the wrong end of the player base. Or just accept power creep as inevitable, and that there will always be older content that is relatively easier and newer content that starts off ultra hard but naturally becomes more achievable over time.

jaws343

IronWooshu wrote: »

Alendrin wrote: »

Proc sets being able to crit in PVP really scares me, but have to test before freaking out.

Otherwise like the changes.

But bro.....performance? You been in the game recently? In cyrodil?

Sure if crit damage wasnt being capped. You don't know what they are gonna cap crit damage at, 50%? 60%? or nerf it right down to nothing like 30%

And, depending on where that line is, it might actually mean Malacath could be a better option comparatively for PVE.

UnbrokenCurse

Just finally separate pvp and pve. Put crit caps for pvp only and don’t let sets crit, that’s just going make lag even worse, who thought it would help in pve taking down crit damage?? The ceiling doesn’t need to keep getting lowered and the floor doesn’t need to be raised. People who do little damage do that poorly because they don’t want to or haven’t optimized, along with not having developed necessary skill. When you put hundreds to thousands of hours into this games combat to get better and then the game tries to put you within 5k dps of new players it [snip] sucks. Higher level players deserve significantly more power because they put in the time and dedication.

[edited for profanity bypass]

ealdwin

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I wonder how sets that are already a "hybrid" sets will work, Like Eternal Vigor for example:

(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(5 items) Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.

Does each recovery bonus will be doubled to be stamina & magicka recovery ? What about health recovery then ? It will be pale in comparison. Same for max health bonus or armour bonus. They need to really think this changes over, otherwise it is going to be an obvious mess with some stats being drastically underpowered.

I don’t think EV will be affected. From the post, it would appear only “damage” stats will be “hybridized”: Damage, Crit, Penetration.

Any resource stat will be left alone: Mag, Stam, recoveries.

So, a set like Medusa will offer 4 lines of crit and minor force, no mag/stam exclusivity to use. While a set like Alfiq will still only offer benefit to mag specs with no changes happening.

Dagoth_Rac

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

This means sets that grant Weapon Damage will now grant Weapon and Spell Damage, Spell Penetration will be Physical and Spell Penetration, and Spell Critical will be Weapon and Spell Critical.

Are those just examples? Or is that a full and complete list of the only bonuses that will become hybrid?

jaws343

UnbrokenCurse wrote: »

Just finally separate pvp and pve. Put crit caps for pvp only and don’t let sets crit, that’s just going make lag even worse, who thought it would help in pve taking down crit damage?? The ceiling doesn’t need to keep getting lowered and the floor doesn’t need to be raised. People who do little damage do that poorly because they don’t want to or haven’t optimized, along with not having developed necessary skill. When you put hundreds to thousands of hours into this games combat to get better and then the game tries to put you within 5k dps of new players it [snip] sucks. Higher level players deserve significantly more power because they put in the time and dedication.

Why would they put crit caps for PVP only. They mentioned that PVE is the reason for the crit caps. They apparently don't want every PVE DPS build to build solely for critical change and critical damage. Nothing to do with PVP.

[edited to remove quote]