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Update 32 Combat Preview

  • hands0medevil
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    With this change, we hope to open up builds to new abilities and ideas, make the game more digestible and understandable to newer players, and empower you with choices when creating your dream build.

    This... it's only to satisfy players not interested in theorycrafting, not interested in advanced parts of the game, searching for nice, personal builds. Years of adding countless sets, hours spent by players on farming them and now you make them even less unique...
    Edited by hands0medevil on September 17, 2021 4:32PM
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Personally I'm liking the sound of a lot of these changes.
    RSTNBse.jpg

    But I agree with Code, hopefully the also reign in some of the dungeon/trial "designs" that require those highest of dps numbers to earn a trifecta in.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • Jameson18
    Jameson18
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    Everyone: What's up with performance and some of these new sets might be buggy?

    Them: Hey, we're gonna make them crit. We're also going to add more calculations.

    Also them: Oh btw, in an effort to make it so you guys can build how you like and not have to change builds so much, we're gonna make it so you'll want to change your builds again.

    Me: [snip].

    [edited for profanity bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 19, 2021 1:53PM
  • colossalvoids
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    It's hard to judge anything without actual proper details but seems like PTS is coming some of next mondays so I'd just wait until everything is dissectable. Overall seems interesting, to say the least.
  • Tigertron
    Tigertron
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    Jameson18 wrote: »
    Everyone: What's up with performance and some of these new sets might be buggy?

    Them: Hey, we're gonna make them crit. We're also going to add more calculations.

    Also them: Oh btw, in an effort to make it so you guys can build how you like and not have to change builds so much, we're gonna make it so you'll want to change your builds again.

    Me: [snip].

    This is par for the course. I just expect it and am pleasantly surprised if every new patch I don't have to scrap my build.
    The mantra is "play how you want" but it really is "play how you want for the next 90 days"

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 19, 2021 1:54PM
  • The_Saint
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    "but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

    cp 2.0
    companions
    cyro changes
    and the whole redesign now

    :+1:
    Edited by The_Saint on September 17, 2021 5:05PM
    Samuel Crow - Nachtklinge - PC-EU-DC
    Saint_Crow Twitch / Youtube
    ESO Stream Team Member
    Noractis
  • Jameson18
    Jameson18
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    The_Saint wrote: »
    "but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

    cp 2.0
    companions
    cyro changes
    and the hole redesign now

    :+1:

    Yup.
  • Myux
    Myux
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    are you gonna make magblade and magden playable in pvp yet
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Alendrin wrote: »
    Proc sets being able to crit in PVP really scares me, but have to test before freaking out.

    Otherwise like the changes.

    But bro.....performance? You been in the game recently? In cyrodil?

    Sure if crit damage wasnt being capped. You don't know what they are gonna cap crit damage at, 50%? 60%? or nerf it right down to nothing like 30%

    I extremely doubt it will be 50-60% that is literally base crit damage
  • colossalvoids
    colossalvoids
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    The_Saint wrote: »
    "but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

    cp 2.0
    companions
    cyro changes
    and the hole redesign now

    :+1:

    Companions here is the only new system, not complex by any means and not really taxing one as we see, not much people using them in public months after the release. Cp and hybridisation are actually part of their performance work btw.
  • CaffeinatedMayhem
    CaffeinatedMayhem
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    Proc sets critting will be BAD in PvP. Period. It will help PvE where many players do not want a meta build and therefore don't have enough damage in end-game content. BUT... it will be BAD for PvP. As if getting Dark Convergeanced 5x one right after the other and unable to roll or otherwise leave the FIELD that ball groups put down, now you can get hit for 28k instead of 14k on a crit.

    And we thought the griping about Hrothgar was bad....
    Edited by CaffeinatedMayhem on September 17, 2021 5:10PM
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    I really enjoy the hybridization changes so far, so I'm looking forward to that going further. The choice between light and medium isn't just a Magicka/Stamina difference, it's a choice between Crit Chance and Pen versus Crit Damage and Power.

    As for the rest...not sure about the crit cap or proc critting and cooldowns yet.
  • Sandman929
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    Also a little scared of DK love being called out specifically....last time DKs got any attention we got that stupid rock skill.
  • FangOfTheTwoMoons
    FangOfTheTwoMoons
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    With this change, we hope to open up builds to new abilities and ideas, make the game more digestible and understandable to newer players, and empower you with choices when creating your dream build.

    This... it's only to satisfy players not interested in theorycrafting, not interested in advanced parts of the game, searching for nice, personal builds. Years of adding countless sets, hours spent by players on farming them and now you make them even less unique...

    This is what it's all about.
  • Jameson18
    Jameson18
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    Incoming; Magplars and Mag DKs with Deadly strike.
  • Luke_Flamesword
    Luke_Flamesword
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    like some long overdue Dragonknight love
    Yes! Yes! Yes! I hope that means something more interesting than simple buff of two weak skills. Can't wait for details.

    I also love the hybrydization idea - I already have much fun on overland content with 2h sword/destro staff on my dk. You can talk about homogenization but meta always will be like this - now you have to put all attribute points stamina/magicka put your Relequen/Mother's Sorrow and go. It's no brainer. Even better, right now meta is magicka, so people don't want stamina players in vet trials. This is not homogenization? From my point of view we will have just more options, but meta... meta never changes :D It always will be about find this couple best combinations and forcing everyone to use it.
    PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Also a little scared of DK love being called out specifically....last time DKs got any attention we got that stupid rock skill.

    So much this. Whenever I see the word "love" I start to get paranoid.
  • Jameson18
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    Mmmm - stacking draugrkin and deadly strike?
  • Greasytengu
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Also a little scared of DK love being called out specifically....last time DKs got any attention we got that stupid rock skill.

    So much this. Whenever I see the word "love" I start to get paranoid.

    remember when vampires needed some love before Greymoor....
    " I nEeD HeAlInG!!! "
  • TooWeak2Live
    TooWeak2Live
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    So I take 2 months away from ESO, because I just can't stand playing the worst PVP meta ever, and I come back to... an even worse PVP meta. Straight up broken sets (ignoring battle spirit and pulling people off keep walls again). Huge fields of Dark Convergence that are impossible to escape, the "ball killer" set that's actually just a favorite of ball groups. Literally the dumbest and most absurd PVP in the entire history of ESO, and I remember flying and ult spamming. Problems that never should have gotten past developer testing or QA, were known on PTS, and they once again just didn't bother to fix.

    And what is the response from Gilliam, the combat designer...

    Let's make these broken procs do even more damage!

    Every time I think it couldn't possibly get any worse, it does. ESO has achieved singularity and become a perpetual suckage machine.
  • Jameson18
    Jameson18
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    So I take 2 months away from ESO, because I just can't stand playing the worst PVP meta ever, and I come back to... an even worse PVP meta. Straight up broken sets (ignoring battle spirit and pulling people off keep walls again). Huge fields of Dark Convergence that are impossible to escape, the "ball killer" set that's actually just a favorite of ball groups. Literally the dumbest and most absurd PVP in the entire history of ESO, and I remember flying and ult spamming. Problems that never should have gotten past developer testing or QA, were known on PTS, and they once again just didn't bother to fix.

    And what is the response from Gilliam, the combat designer...

    Let's make these broken procs do even more damage!

    Every time I think it couldn't possibly get any worse, it does. ESO has achieved singularity and become a perpetual suckage machine.

    11 days >_< I kid.. I kid.....

    But you're not really wrong. It is frustrating. Hopefully we'll see more detail and changes in the PTS notes and weeks this time.
    Edited by Jameson18 on September 17, 2021 5:44PM
  • sonwon.1_ESO
    sonwon.1_ESO
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    We could use some balance between heavy attacks and light attacks since the light attack builds outperform heavy attack builds by more than double.
  • phaneub17_ESO
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    Here's a radical idea on how to deal with critical strike your team can try out testing, have a linear scaling based on the severity of the target's health. The more health the target is missing, the more of your critical strike is likely to hit the target. Say you have 70% chance to critical strike, when attacking a target that has full health your chance to critical strike it is 35% with a 10% additive bonus if attacking from sneak, as the target loses health every 5% of their total your critical strike allotment goes up as well. When the target has 50% health or lower, you gain your full 70% chance to critical strike, think of it as exploiting a weakness or repeatedly targeting an open wound, you're far more likely to do serious damage to someone who is already injured than at full health.

    Penetration could offer some more long term debuff states to the target, while you already have "Breach" effects available, a player's permanent penetration (not gained from temporary sources such as Major/Minor Breach or Crushing enchant) could also apply a 10% fraction of your total for 6 seconds and refreshes as long as you are hitting that target. It's not increasing the amount of penetration being applied, but give others hitting the target more use from your penetration passively, let's call it armor shattering. Say you have 9500 penetration so your attacks will apply a 950 armor shattering debuff on the target as long as you keep attacking it, you applying it won't benefit from it as it still treats it as 9500 penetration, but others hitting the target will benefit from that extra 950 armor shattering that you applied.
  • phaneub17_ESO
    phaneub17_ESO
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    Weird, it double posted, I only pushed Post once.

    Well now that I have a second post on here, let's talk recovery stats giving additional benefits as well. I would like to see that apply to your light and heavy attacks similar to the way tenacity used to function in the old Champion Points. Let's say you have permanent 1200 stamina recovery and 900 magicka recovery; light attacks gain 1% of the amount and heavy attacks gain 10% of the amount, so every time you light attack you also gain 12 stamina and 9 magicka back while heavy attacks grant you an additional 120 stamina and 90 magicka. Health recovery should also benefit, but through healing yourself with 5-10% of the total added to your direct burst healing and evenly spread throughout your healing over time.
    Edited by phaneub17_ESO on September 17, 2021 6:19PM
  • Alchimiste1
    Alchimiste1
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    I type this because I care about the game.


    Crit damage thoughts

    Limiting crit damage will probably have a big impact in pve and pvp, the problem is crit chance is at an all time low after the cp changes.In pve I believe that thief is now more important than shadow because of this chance. Hard capping crit might make a lot of things useless like , major force sets/skills minor force , class passives etc. Of course I can't stop zos from going through with this but I caution over-nerfing crit damage as I think it can severely impact high end achievement runs.

    pvp
    In pvp you have medium armor builds with 27% crit chance, that used to be heavy armor values. Last patch crit damage was very strong when paired with acuity, this patch however is different. With the added mitigation and the new cp added I don't feel that crit damage is overturned. The biggest problem this patch is honestly the new sets. I have hit 20k Hrothgars, I have seen people get hit by 30k ones, and I have seen people get hit by 20k+ dark convergence. These sets are very over tuned. Dark convergence in more than just damage but its pull range. Honestly just get rid of these and pvp might actually be really good this patch.

    please no crit on procs
    Moving forward.

    This standardization thing is ...aright but you're going to get to a point where you wonder what's the difference between a magplar and a stamplar ( they are already similar). I guess if this is what the company wants this is fine but we'd better start seeing a new class coming out to balanced out the ones we would be losing.

    This might be my personal bias but I'm not a huge fan of hybridization, I would rather there be unique sets that are good for certain classes, like how bsw was for magdk.


    PVP combat.
    For the love of this game, please give us back actual animation canceling or at least no cast time on ults. No one asked for cast time on ults. The amount of times I have hit a DB only for it to miss the person in front of me because of a combination of cast time and positional desync is ridiculous.
    And that's another thing Positional desyncs. People that have played this game long enough can recall when heavy attacks actually landed more than 50% of the time. Now you can walk by someone and the attack will simply not hit the person.


    Last thoughts : destructible bridges suck, bring back the old ones with great places to fight, Take 5 minutes to look at how bad magden is after the nerfs to artic and to healing (still no offensive stun, bad healing etc). Magblade needs major sorcery on siphoning, swallow soul is completely outclassed by concealed weapon . DKs should be able to leap into keep walls I don't care what anyone says. Or at least give us a damn ladder or something because people do nothing but siege on those walls and then abandon the keep if it gets breached.

    Give us a new game mode with a new map. 6v6 or 8v8 , can be objective based idk just make it enticing. 1 team defending , 1 team attacking. Breach enemy stronghold , capture relec etc, Side objective take control of side room ( far from relic) which decrease the time(animation) needed to take the relic. Things like that to spread people out.
    Edited by Alchimiste1 on September 17, 2021 10:36PM
  • Wyrd88
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    This whole hybridisation has gone too far.

    Next step lets remove all armor weights, then Magika and Stamina and make one generic resourse pool, then make all the skills and morphs scale off the highest stat and deal some kind of "generic" damage type... oh wait, there won't be any highest stat anymore.

    Class Identity and Build Diversity that we deserved.
    Edited by Wyrd88 on September 18, 2021 2:57AM
  • Nerhesi
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    Proc sets have to do more damage than non Proc by far in pvp. You have to also be punished in other areas - which is what happens today for using Proc sets.

    The problem is that pvp offense (non Proc) doesn’t punish you enough in defence. Since this game started, you could be running 5k weapon damage with monster stamina heals.

    Everything else is a symptom of this problem.

    You can’t have a game where your DPS monsters are also putting out amazing heels and mitigation. Period. This is why this game stands alone in this phenomenon, and also why common in PVP are generally the weakest points of this game.

    Stop making robust, dodgy, dps monsters with Great heals.

    The only way you will fix this, is by rebuilding pvp separately from the ground up. More traditional health pools, slower regen, dps not being able to heal worth crap. If not, you’re not going to be able to change anything because the “play the way you want” is getting in the way of good, multiple viable builds, meaningful pvp.
  • Einstein_
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    first i think its good that they still try to work on combat, but why dont they ask realy experianced PLAYERS in pve/pvp what they think is good and healthy. They tend to have way more game knowledge then any dev.

    Community FLAME, i cant belive how deluded some ppl are...

    1. Meta shift is good, would be insanly boring if you could run the same [snip] for years in every content.
    2. There is no "nerfs" in PvE its just meta shift. any PvE content will be still doable. Even if you do 10% dmg less or more....IT DOESNT MATTER. Only because DDs will pull 100k DPS instead of 110k DPS will not make your game experiance worse....
    3. There should always be Skills/builds which need more skill to use but you gain some more DPS... WHY should a Heavyatack build (hold down right click) do the same dmg then a more skill based build ?....in a optimal word there should be multiple builds/sets viable. But you need diffrent sets/builds for diffrent skill lvl and diffrent content.

    Doing DPS is atm way to ez, there should be more complicated mechanics in sets to gain DPS, by heaving skill

    Dont flat line everything so ppl will use the same 2 sets for everything and everyone.....

    Now to the 3 big changes:

    1. Proc sets crit. Besides of the obviosly broken sets atm i think its a good idea to make proc sets able to crit, but then dmg needs to be adjusted alot...I think that can work out good or horrible dependent on the balacing.

    2. Proc set CD , i think thats a good idea, maybe it should even share a CD for healing proc sets.

    3. Hybridization, this is the a BAD BAD idea in my opinion... there are to big balacing issues comming with that. also it will kill build diversity. There should still be some identity in stamina/magicka and classes, with this change you will flatline everything and thats the oposite off what you wanted to achive.

    JUST BALANCE YOUR SETS AND MAKE MORE SETS VIABLE...NERF OP SET, BUFF UP SETS !!!!!

    [edited for profanity bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 19, 2021 1:58PM
  • Chips_Ahoy
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    ESO has always tried to hold itself to the mantra of “play the way you want” but a lot of our stats and ability calculations actively push against this concept in ways we find less than ideal.

    And what exactly is that concept?

    They should stop looking at excel sheets and read and apply more real feedback.

    The real mantra is “play the way you can”.
  • Alchimiste1
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    Nerhesi wrote: »
    Proc sets have to do more damage than non Proc by far in pvp. You have to also be punished in other areas - which is what happens today for using Proc sets.

    The problem is that pvp offense (non Proc) doesn’t punish you enough in defence. Since this game started, you could be running 5k weapon damage with monster stamina heals.

    Everything else is a symptom of this problem.

    You can’t have a game where your DPS monsters are also putting out amazing heels and mitigation. Period. This is why this game stands alone in this phenomenon, and also why common in PVP are generally the weakest points of this game.

    Stop making robust, dodgy, dps monsters with Great heals.

    The only way you will fix this, is by rebuilding pvp separately from the ground up. More traditional health pools, slower regen, dps not being able to heal worth crap. If not, you’re not going to be able to change anything because the “play the way you want” is getting in the way of good, multiple viable builds, meaningful pvp.

    NO
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