Update 32 Combat Preview

The_Lex

The_Saint wrote: »

"but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

cp 2.0
companions
cyro changes
and the whole redesign now

Hilarious

karekiz

Next year were getting soft caps re-introduced.

HollowDreams

Can something please be done about overland content...please...Make enemies hit harder, make the big enemies threatening, make traps inside dungeons an actual threat with a possible 1 hit kill mechanic... Don't just focus on PVP do something about overland content i beg you

HydroPotato

To summarise what I'd like to say: Stop favouring hybrids, please.

The existing system that rewards investing heavily into either stamina or magicka stats is great as is. Medium Armour complements the playstyle of stamina damage dealers, while Light Armour fits the playstyle of magicka damage dealers and healers. This isn't just a case of stats; it's thematically accurate. In an MMO, players ought to be rewarded for investing in maximising. Those who don't maximise aren't punished; they can still play as they want, because even a fully nude character can take on quest enemies solo. They might not make the cut for a group trying to get the Planesbreaker achievement, but they can still play the game and have fun.

And that's where the problem lies. Hybrids have never been terrible. Playing one doesn't make you inherently bad. In the same way that you have a much easier time beating Alduin in Skyrim is much faster if you level and maximise one offensive kill tree and have the strongest weapon for you, building into stamina or magicka is rewarding, yet not doing so doesn't bar you from playing the game.

The issue with hybridisation is simple: It confuses newbies. Already as is, I know hybrid players who don't understand why they can't achieve those top parses. Back before Pelinal's Aptitude was reworked, I had a guild mate pointing at that set and saying "my spell and weapon damage are both high; why can't I parse high?" before learning about maximising. This is the problem. If players want to maximise, they can, but the existing system already has enough leeway for those who don't want to. The game shouldn't falsely advertise suboptimal builds as optimal.

The closest possible system change there is to make Magicka the only offensive stat, and have Stamina be used for core abilities (roll, block, sprint). That way there will only be one way to make damage/healing scale, and players could run whatever combination of weapons and abilities they want. At that point, however, you might as well create ESO 2.

helloelli

yknow im usually the optimistic one in my circle when it comes to big updates like this, cp 2.0, companions, scrying, etc., i was always the one to say "maybe it wont be that bad, lets just wait until further updates/pts comes out until we form full thoughts!"

this time i feel completely different, the hybridization, cap, its just...why? as stated previously a page or two ago, we hardly have class identity as it is now - much less if, or when, this goes through. hybrids can be a thing if you really want it to, just make actually decent sets - while easier said than done, that cater to them. dont punish those of us who spend hundreds of hours perfecting a pure mag/stam toon just so hybrids are "viable". give them their time to shine, separately, just like weve had ours.

i just fail to see the reasoning behind this..? trifectas are already hard enough as it is, as they should be, because its a huge deal, why make it harder for the groups that push and dedicate their free time into getting them? reworking trials because of a hard crit cap would be entirely counterintuitive - and frankly, be wasting a lot of time that they could be using to fix other ACTUAL problems in the game.

i love eso to death, have well over 10k hours across my toons and have played since beta on and off, so ive seen some of the worst (and best) moments. i love eso because its simple enough that casual players can get into it, but if you decide to be sweaty, you can do so. dont turn eso into another victim to the mainline series of watering/dumbing down the systems that make the games unique. i just hope a lot of us are wrong and its not as bad as it seems.

Styxius

Also, something that crosses my mind is this homogenization of sets is starting to read more like a limitation to creativity from a design perspective. From a creative standpoint proceeding to homogenize, because that's what it is at this point wrongly marketed as hybridizing, is going to lead to issues in creativity. You're going to lose that appeal of 2-4 bonuses and this is something that is incredibly sad to see happen.

No longer are we going to look at sets and go, "Oh snap these 2-4 are great, and this 5pc is an interesting combination with it." Instead, we're going to see more situations of, "damage, pen, and whatever cool" from a theory-crafting standpoint this is a debilitating problem in the future. That would lead to a drastic rework of the system where the simplest resolution instead of fixing all these issues you'll encounter will be to "Oh just rework those stats to be the same, Weapon & spell damage = Power" to use as an example.

This also presents another issue that's almost immediately present when analyzing options, Mag running Rele & Bahsei for example. The damage will only go up when you do this. Magcro's dot rotation just becoming ~18% stronger with just deadly strike being added now the 2-4 will be homogenized is not a great situation to be looking at.

I am all for a play your own style mentality but this seems rushed and focus is being diverted from the actual issues the game is currently experiencing. This is the last three months of the year of performance. Imagine how happy would've been if this was just the story patch and then just pure patching. You'd be amazed how much people would praise such a patch.

We narrowed server calculations to then turn around and add proc crit calculations. How is this any better than so many prior things we lost for this reason? Warden tanks lost the ability to use life steal to proc minor toughness and we had this whole CP rework to improve performance on tick conditions. We lost prismatic's which now has gone the way of redundancy from any theory-crafting standpoint. We lost the fighters guild damage bonus for a 1 line check that granted may be an exaggeration but reads like an else if statement check that repeated. From a coding standpoint we're almost just reintroducing that but with crit on proc sets. The scaling was the only thing needing work.

The homogenization is alarming the more it persists. It's a double-edged sword that as a person determining and assisting in balance you have to understand thoroughly. We have to remind ourselves this may be too late in the game to issue out such a major change. Over time a few sets at a time may have fixed this transition more. However, just straight jumping to the full length seems to be putting the focus away from improving server performance. The player base has not forgotten Scalebreaker's disaster that caused a lot of people to leave. In that situation, you focused on a fair and unique idea for the patch. Trying to push ST DoT's to be chosen over AoE in boss fights at times. You killed caltrops that patch until recently 2-3 years later. You failed to recognize the state spammables would be in on that patch and realized it once the patch went live.

Making more Hybrid sets is good. Homogenizing everything is bad. You don't create diversity by merging. For example, Thundercaller is used by stam in PvP that's cool. Pelinals is something we miss for those designing hybrids. If you make everyone hybrids then hybrids aren't unique or creative, they're normal. You then create 1 playstyle and that's a hybrid, losing the other two. We need to make sure there are clear distinctions, Stamina should have their meta's and Magicka their own. Introducing a route that could make Hybrids have their route as well is fantastic! However, the approaches being used at this time and described in the post are more in line with homogenization than they are hybridization.

TLDR:
True Hybridization is good.
Homogenization is bad.
Seems ill-sighted and could lead to merging of stats instead of redefining them when/if this goes wrong.
Plan B for recovery doesn't seem to be in mind.
Homogenization of sets to share similar stat lines is going to lead to a decrease of creativity in build design and options. Things that require players to get engaged and use critical thinking skills.

maxjapank

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In the last Update, we tried to keep things simpler with the number of changes to help combat the change fatigue many have reported, but progress cannot sleep for long as we march ever forward to improving the game.

No offense, but it really feels like you are making drastic changes again. And it is tiring. I'd like to be able to enjoy more than one character and not have to re-gear it every patch. Please slow down your changes and please exercise more thinking about those changes before you implement them.

VaranisArano

maxjapank wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In the last Update, we tried to keep things simpler with the number of changes to help combat the change fatigue many have reported, but progress cannot sleep for long as we march ever forward to improving the game.

No offense, but it really feels like you are making drastic changes again. And it is tiring. I'd like to be able to enjoy more than one character and not have to re-gear it every patch. Please slow down your changes and please exercise more thinking about those changes before you implement them.

Right?



Like, I get it. An MMO can't afford to get stagnant, because boredom will cause players to move on even faster than change fatigue. That being said, if ESO was really trying to slow down the pace of changes, I don't think its working.

fred4

Marto wrote: »

The only things that are not hybridized are regular active abilities, food items, potions, poisons and player buffs.

Sustain is not hybridized. That's a major reason why magicka builds will continue to use mainly light armor and stamina builds medium, certainly in PvP.

Sordidfairytale

FrankonPC wrote: »

I wonder if the servers running checks on crit chance for proc sets will have a positive or negative impact on performance.

The servers already run a check on proc set damage to tell it to not crit so removing that check may actually provide some relief.

Wuuffyy

Can we consider doing the cap in PvE only? Or nerfing the set that allows you to not build crit but hit crits consistently.

Soraka

The_Saint wrote: »

"but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

cp 2.0
companions
cyro changes
and the whole redesign now

This. Please... I want to get back to where I can join a group in Cyrodiil without desyncing every 5 minutes. Or run up to a large fight without desyncing. I really don't even care about my build or my gear because I can barely play a lot of the time. Will proc cool down help performance? I'm honestly so disappointed.

Greasytengu

Soraka wrote: »

The_Saint wrote: »

"but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

cp 2.0
companions
cyro changes
and the whole redesign now

This. Please... I want to get back to where I can join a group in Cyrodiil without desyncing every 5 minutes. Or run up to a large fight without desyncing. I really don't even care about my build or my gear because I can barely play a lot of the time. Will proc cool down help performance? I'm honestly so disappointed.

removing procs altogether didn't seem to do anything for the lag. I can't see a cooldown helping much sadly.

Jaraal

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam
5) 1 second cooldown on proc condition or on dmg occurring? for example Will dying to Hrothgar / Dark Convergence still proc VD?

Also let's say you are running two sets that say "When you deal damage (x occurs)," does that mean the effect from one set (and which one is prioritized?) will fire, and then the effect from the other set will fire one second later, or, let's say both sets have a 7 second cooldown. Does that mean the first set will proc immediately, and the second set won't proc for 7 seconds, and cancel out the second proc from the first set?

ACamaroGuy

When does Update 32 drop on console?

B0SSzombie

So I guess a fairly common sight will be Magicka users back-baring Bows and Melee users back-baring Staves? Weird thought. Sounds fun though.

kojou

It will be interesting to see, but I am excited about the overall direction. Some of these changes are ones I have wished for since launch.

Aznarb

Proc sets that scale with your Weapon or Spell Damage, Magicka, or Stamina will now once again be able to Critically strike in Update 32

Thank you.
So many fun set and 90% of them where useless in PvE. I'm glad they'll have a little comeback !

MalakithAlamahdi

The_Saint wrote: »

"but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

cp 2.0
companions
cyro changes
and the whole redesign now

And the game still barely performes. Colour me surprised.

TooWeak2Live

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

The_Saint wrote: »

"but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"

And the game still barely performes. Colour me surprised.

It performs WORSE. That's the real insult. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Goren

Marto wrote: »

[...]

If so many things are hybridized, does that mean this is what your stat screen will look like in the near future?


None of these ideas are objectively bad or anything. I might not even be opposed to them. But it is a huge change, with the potential to be the biggest update to ESO since Update 6.

I honestly like the idea of merging weapon and spell damage, physical and spell penetration and weapon and spell crit chance. If max resources would also stop scaling the damage and just remain as resource pools, then we would have a nice and clean system that allows more hybrid gameplay!

cro25519

I'm hyped up. Thanks for the write up ^^.

sol0

@ZOS_Gilliam

WTB Executes for my DK

universal_wrath

Azorean wrote: »

Still won't proc dmg sets still be useless in PvE? The spell/weapon dmg that requires is stupidly high.
ATM using proc monster sets is less desirable vs crit or full stats MS

I was waiting for that hard cap on crit :P Is the only reasonable option if you guys want to moves from crit sets.
Otherwise we would simply change to the next crit set, because crits = free dmg

Obtaining 6.5k weapon/spell damage in PvE is fairly easy if you are running with a group. Tank wearing powerful assault or yol, and healer wearing spc as well as having either dk or templar for minor brutality/sorcery. However, it will all comes down to how powerful and consistent a proc set is.

Relequent for exmaple, does roughly 4-5k damage per second on full proc without any cooldown, most powerful and used proc in PvE because it does high damage and it can be active during the whole fight(theortically speaking).

Another set like calurion legacy which is realy nice, it does high damage 10-16k in a single attack every 12 secs I think. Calurion downtime is too loong for PvE to be useful proc, however a solid option for PvP gank because of the high upfront damage and coold down is irrelevent here as most ganks only take 1-2secs and if they fail gankers retreat and rebuff(enough time for calurion cooldown).

Ippokrates

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Why is recovery and max stats not hybrid also heavy attacks should be hybrid.

I think I see where they are going with all those changes. Yes, you can use a medium piece as a mage & light piece as stamina BUT because costs of your skills with opposite attribute will not be reduced and recovery will not be increased, you will be able to use it in somewhat limited amount, so not necessary all 7 pieces but rather with things like Kilt.

And TBH I think it is quite good direction.

Sure, if you really, really want you will be able to create a hybrid, lets say Redguard running in sets like Battlefield Acrobat or Amber Plasm. but that would of course limit usage of more dmg or crit based sets.

Although I am really looking forward to see how they will implement it. I mean... Mother's Sorrow & Leviathan might become quite interesting ^^

Joy_Division

Imagine if all the development time that went in trying to fix proc sets actually went into development of additional features, systems, abilities, and other stuff that moved the game forward in a discernible direction.

universal_wrath

ZoS: we want to balance the game.
Zos: stats from item sets are hyprid now.
Zos: cap critical damage.
Veteran players: this looks promising and good change.
Zos: proc sets now crit in both PvE and PvP.
Veteran players: *breathing intensify* (PTSD and flashback of 2015).


With all seriousness, the hybrid stat was expected and most welcome change for most players I think. Critical damage cap however is none sense, if you want to limit the damage in PvE, remove harboner kilt, relequen damage nerve by 20-25%. Increase mosnters resistance to 32k. I don't know why resistance caps has never change for mosnter after all this time. Increasing the health pool or damage of boss to one hit players is really not effective as people will find a way to kit and kill the boss. Increase their resistance will reduce incoming damage from players and might make people shift from critical damage to spec more for penetration. The current 18k resistance for boss is easily achieved by puncture 10k+ crimson oath 3,5k+ CP 700+ light armor 1,8k-6,5k. Not even usong mauls/maces, weakening, alkosh, and tremor scale or other pen sets like spriggon/spinner.

Nighblade is king of 1v1 in PvP right now, please don't give the more power creep by making Procs crit. Also, don't forget bomblades exist as well, if you are surviving their gank/bomb this patch, next patch you won't.

Sorcerer need to be looked at as well not just DK, especaily stamsorc and the god forsaken crytal weapon skill that has become abomination in PvP.

Jamdarius

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

...Aside from these changes and the usual bug fixing and less flashy/global adjustments (like some long overdue Dragonknight love)...

Both happy and scared about this change to be honest. Mag DK has been my main since ~2015, wreck this class and I am gone for good and this time not because of poor health.

That said looking forward to PTS next week, cheers.

Brrrofski

As someone who mainly plays pvp, I decided to take a break this patch as the meta is not fun.

Looks like I'm extending that break based on this...

This looks like it's going to be an absolute mess.

I thought we were moving away from calculations? Now we're adding more for the server to calculate when it need to work out which sets are on cooldown.

hcbigdogdoghc

RIP diversity

Stam meta relequen body + bahsei jewelry + slimecraw + kilt

Mag meta bahsei body + relequen jewelry + slimecraw + kilt

Yeah this is 100% gonna happen, everyone and their dog use the exact sets mag or stam.