Nightblade still too strong in this patch

spacefracking

NB underpowered. You just got hit by a cheese build with no resists. Slot radiating magelight to prevent sneak attacks. Hold block when waiting on a flag to flip.

People dodge incap as much as assassin's will/scourge, the majority of the time. Have to run their stam out, or do it while passing through them while they're handling some other part of the fight cycle. Detect pots, the sentry set, setting up traps when standing around doing nothing. There are a dozen things I can think of off the top of my head. Magblade can't even get major sorcery from stealth without the potions.

There are a few really powerful hits nb's can do, most don't do them, and this isn't one of them, but all of the *class* NB burst available to magblades, at least, have long cooldowns. I have very rarely ever got ganked in under 3 weaves by a NB, and I am a NB.

Anyway, I see people deal with stuff like this every day. Either this is PEBKAC, or the fight was not in a pvp area, where the out of combat assassin's will/scourge clears itself to prevent ganking. Pay attention to resources, and your surroundings, get some armor and resists, and you'll be safe if you're at your keyboard. Run your health high right now because that's the meta. Magblades, at least, are underpowered, and stamblades have nothing meaningful I'm the realm of heals. Gotta adapt to the way the game works.

Ragnaroek93

I mean just dodge/roll/block after you get hit by Incap or Relentless. Nb is already extinct in duels, group pvp etc and you want to nerf it in the last niche in which it's "good" at. (while being a msorc which is basically an improved and less buggy version of Nb with more reliable damage)

martinhpb16_ESO

So OP get's ganked once, no explanation of the scenario, what they were doing or build. afk gank? looking at your map? riding a horse? not paying attention?

It was probably the perfect line up for the attack and the attacker was lucky to get a spectral charged and a hit from it.

And it's a call for yet more nerfs on NB's

As a NB if I called for a nerf every time I literally get exploded, as I am so squishy, there would not be enough room on this forum to contain all the posts.

I would politely suggest take it on the chin and take it for what it was, someone who worked on a build for a certain scenario which you fell into, or learn / try some new tactics.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Everyone is getting salty over damage because it kills them, but they are ignoring how insane defense it getting. Offense and defense should be roughly equal, but we are playing in a game where going pure damage can barely tickle a pseudo tank(30k hp + sword n board). Ideally you should have to be playing a real tank in order to not get melted by a glass cannon. The two extremes should cancel each other out, but right now defense is more effective then offense. Thus you can go half n half and still survive big burst while slapping out big enough hits. Probably because its easier to stack high hp, armor, crit resist then it is to increase weapon damage, penetration, and crit. Armor can go way higher then penetration, crit resist completely nullifies crits so its not worth having a high crit chance. More armor is always better, where as penetration is useless if its more then your opponents armor level.

Its also much more forgiving and noob friendly to play a character that survives with zero player input for longer. It allows you to have slower reactions and still live through scenarios that a glass cannon would die in. I think that is what annoys me the most about all these tanks. Knowing that they are literally only living because of passive defense that didn't require any input on their part annoys me. They really need to do something about defense if they ever nerf NBs. They either need to drastically reduce how much damage a pseudo tank can deal or reduce how high you can stack armor/hp/crit resist to make it more in line with the offensive equivalents. I would love to see a return to 20k hp being the norm and heavy armor/sword n board being rare unicorns. Most players back in the day lived by rolling, blocking, or using cover instead of crutching on armor and hp. Miss that so much.

GRXRG

Raeyleigh wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Every damn decent player is running around like a pseudo tank now and you want our damage to be even lower? If we lose anymore burst we will be straight up incapable of killing anyone good.

Decent players build tanky exactly because damage is absurd. If you instantly die to a gank it never mattered how good you are.

The offense is not that gankers and nb in general do high damage in general but that their burst damage is much higher than that of any other class, bar harmony necro. And that creates a situation where people either instantly die or they pump up their resistances and hp by so much that they will automaticly stalemate in any other encounter.

If nb burst gets nerfed the class will be in trouble because ZoS basicly degraded stamblade into a braindead suprise attack spam bot, which is a major design flaw.

ThePedge wrote: »

It's not unavoidable.

It is avoidable in theory only. Serverside desync and breakfree delays make it otherwise in practice. Before Update 25 you could always avoid the followup after a stun with no fail. Today thats not consistently possible anymore.
And when you get ganked you dont know its coming and dont prepare. Nobody keeps his buffs, hots and block up 24/7 unless he knows or strongly suspects a ganker to be nearby.

It is possible to avoid, trust me I main Stamblade in PvP and the exact combo in OP is blocked/dodged a lot.

Good players keep their buffs up.

It is not possible to avoid it consistently since update 25. Trust me, ive seen it from both perspectives hundreds of times. Neither me or other good players are slow when it comes to breakfree or dodge/block.
Also there is no telegraph so unless you permablock you have to guess to block it.

Even having the cp Slippery that autobreak-free for you doesn't save you from a gank even if you insta roll dodge after it or block cast heals or whatever. Unless you have 40k hp full impen with crit resist cp as well you will always die to a good ganker who set his combo perfectly from stealth, and exactly like you said it's all because of server desyncs that delays your break-free and roll dodge and instead makes you getting hit by 4 abilities registered all at once for the server, so the moment you break-free you are already dead for the server, but in your client you don't see it yet, and so you die regardless.

I dunno if I wanna call for nerfs on nightblade, I do know Incap and SA stuns are causing lot of hitbox desyncs on the level of Snipe and Overloads if not more, it is frustating, but what can we do if they don't wanna improve those trash servers? Just nothing, keep playing and adapt.

Abyssmol

GRXRG wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Every damn decent player is running around like a pseudo tank now and you want our damage to be even lower? If we lose anymore burst we will be straight up incapable of killing anyone good.

Decent players build tanky exactly because damage is absurd. If you instantly die to a gank it never mattered how good you are.

The offense is not that gankers and nb in general do high damage in general but that their burst damage is much higher than that of any other class, bar harmony necro. And that creates a situation where people either instantly die or they pump up their resistances and hp by so much that they will automaticly stalemate in any other encounter.

If nb burst gets nerfed the class will be in trouble because ZoS basicly degraded stamblade into a braindead suprise attack spam bot, which is a major design flaw.

ThePedge wrote: »

It's not unavoidable.

It is avoidable in theory only. Serverside desync and breakfree delays make it otherwise in practice. Before Update 25 you could always avoid the followup after a stun with no fail. Today thats not consistently possible anymore.
And when you get ganked you dont know its coming and dont prepare. Nobody keeps his buffs, hots and block up 24/7 unless he knows or strongly suspects a ganker to be nearby.

It is possible to avoid, trust me I main Stamblade in PvP and the exact combo in OP is blocked/dodged a lot.

Good players keep their buffs up.

It is not possible to avoid it consistently since update 25. Trust me, ive seen it from both perspectives hundreds of times. Neither me or other good players are slow when it comes to breakfree or dodge/block.
Also there is no telegraph so unless you permablock you have to guess to block it.

Even having the cp Slippery that autobreak-free for you doesn't save you from a gank even if you insta roll dodge after it or block cast heals or whatever. Unless you have 40k hp full impen with crit resist cp as well you will always die to a good ganker who set his combo perfectly from stealth, and exactly like you said it's all because of server desyncs that delays your break-free and roll dodge and instead makes you getting hit by 4 abilities registered all at once for the server, so the moment you break-free you are already dead for the server, but in your client you don't see it yet, and so you die regardless.

I dunno if I wanna call for nerfs on nightblade, I do know Incap and SA stuns are causing lot of hitbox desyncs on the level of Snipe and Overloads if not more, it is frustating, but what can we do if they don't wanna improve those trash servers? Just nothing, keep playing and adapt.

In my experience, it is easy to survive a gank with 30k health. I don't even rolldodge. I just block with my SnB bar and heal. What bothers me now is that after the initial attack it's gotten harder to catch the NB. The extra 10% speed from CP and the fact that the improved stealth detection skills are not working properly when NB have insane speeds. It is frustrating. I can't understand the mentality of players anymore. Cloak is a great skill for outnumbered fighting. There is a justification to use the skill if you are fighting more than one player at a time. But, in a 1v1, if you have to run and hide in a 1v1. why are you even playing the game.

GRXRG

Abyssmol wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Every damn decent player is running around like a pseudo tank now and you want our damage to be even lower? If we lose anymore burst we will be straight up incapable of killing anyone good.

Decent players build tanky exactly because damage is absurd. If you instantly die to a gank it never mattered how good you are.

The offense is not that gankers and nb in general do high damage in general but that their burst damage is much higher than that of any other class, bar harmony necro. And that creates a situation where people either instantly die or they pump up their resistances and hp by so much that they will automaticly stalemate in any other encounter.

If nb burst gets nerfed the class will be in trouble because ZoS basicly degraded stamblade into a braindead suprise attack spam bot, which is a major design flaw.

ThePedge wrote: »

It's not unavoidable.

It is avoidable in theory only. Serverside desync and breakfree delays make it otherwise in practice. Before Update 25 you could always avoid the followup after a stun with no fail. Today thats not consistently possible anymore.
And when you get ganked you dont know its coming and dont prepare. Nobody keeps his buffs, hots and block up 24/7 unless he knows or strongly suspects a ganker to be nearby.

It is possible to avoid, trust me I main Stamblade in PvP and the exact combo in OP is blocked/dodged a lot.

Good players keep their buffs up.

It is not possible to avoid it consistently since update 25. Trust me, ive seen it from both perspectives hundreds of times. Neither me or other good players are slow when it comes to breakfree or dodge/block.
Also there is no telegraph so unless you permablock you have to guess to block it.

Even having the cp Slippery that autobreak-free for you doesn't save you from a gank even if you insta roll dodge after it or block cast heals or whatever. Unless you have 40k hp full impen with crit resist cp as well you will always die to a good ganker who set his combo perfectly from stealth, and exactly like you said it's all because of server desyncs that delays your break-free and roll dodge and instead makes you getting hit by 4 abilities registered all at once for the server, so the moment you break-free you are already dead for the server, but in your client you don't see it yet, and so you die regardless.

I dunno if I wanna call for nerfs on nightblade, I do know Incap and SA stuns are causing lot of hitbox desyncs on the level of Snipe and Overloads if not more, it is frustating, but what can we do if they don't wanna improve those trash servers? Just nothing, keep playing and adapt.

In my experience, it is easy to survive a gank with 30k health. I don't even rolldodge. I just block with my SnB bar and heal. What bothers me now is that after the initial attack it's gotten harder to catch the NB. The extra 10% speed from CP and the fact that the improved stealth detection skills are not working properly when NB have insane speeds. It is frustrating. I can't understand the mentality of players anymore. Cloak is a great skill for outnumbered fighting. There is a justification to use the skill if you are fighting more than one player at a time. But, in a 1v1, if you have to run and hide in a 1v1. why are you even playing the game.

When my connection is perfect during no prime time hours I never died a single time to a gank or a good stamblade/magblade, as soon they stun me I can break free and use a roll dodge immediately and I see their bow proc so slowed down that I could almost dodge even if they were 2 xD The game in that scenario feels perfectly in line and working as intended.

In 90% of the cases I have a hitbox desynced, and even with autobreak-free and insta roll dodge, at half of the animation of the dodge my character simply dies and last hit is always a single target which should never hit me during roll dodge.

In this case it is happening a desync between the server-client datas, in your screen you are dodge rolling, for the server you are not and that's why you get hit anyway, and that's why stamblade seems that overpowered and landing 5 skills at once.

Unfortunately this problem happens 80% of the times and it's tough and frustating to deal with.
When I have zero lag I survived ganks on 25k hp zero impens below 20k resists builds, so yeah...

jerj6925

Guaranteed if a Templar had the ability to hit some one this hard this fast there would be screams of destruction for the class. Yet a NB (bomber) can instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 30 people ... instantly not over the course of a 5 minute fight, instantly and some how the NB class is not OP it was 30 people playing bad not the one person killing them.

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

rbfrgsp

Bombing is no longer solely a NB ability with the new sets that are available.

This thread is not about bombing.

Vanilla NB is not even close to OP and may need buffing in several areas (access to selfbuffs, utility, and heals within its class toolkit). Some proc armour and the vampire skill line are becoming OP when paired with Nightblade passives. Take the NB out of the vampire or the armour, and vamps and armour are still OP. Take the vamp or armour off the Nightblade, and the NB is not OP.

fred4

GRXRG wrote: »

When I have zero lag I survived ganks on 25k hp zero impens below 20k resists builds, [however] unfortunately this problem happens 80% of the times and it's tough and frustating to deal with.

This might explain some of the different perspectives in this thread. For example I never play in Cyro once the lag sets in, so this almost never happens to me. I certainly don't think the class should be nerfed to compensate for Cyro lag. I also think nightblades have it the worst from the lag. That said the OP was playing in IC. You can see it from the Tel Var loss in the screenshot. I take it you agree, then, that he could have defended better or was the victim or a rare desync in IC or that, while it could happen to anyone, this would statistically be an outlier for most people, e.g. it wouldn't cause most of us to cry for a nerf.

fred4

Abyssmol wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Every damn decent player is running around like a pseudo tank now and you want our damage to be even lower? If we lose anymore burst we will be straight up incapable of killing anyone good.

Decent players build tanky exactly because damage is absurd. If you instantly die to a gank it never mattered how good you are.

The offense is not that gankers and nb in general do high damage in general but that their burst damage is much higher than that of any other class, bar harmony necro. And that creates a situation where people either instantly die or they pump up their resistances and hp by so much that they will automaticly stalemate in any other encounter.

If nb burst gets nerfed the class will be in trouble because ZoS basicly degraded stamblade into a braindead suprise attack spam bot, which is a major design flaw.

ThePedge wrote: »

It's not unavoidable.

It is avoidable in theory only. Serverside desync and breakfree delays make it otherwise in practice. Before Update 25 you could always avoid the followup after a stun with no fail. Today thats not consistently possible anymore.
And when you get ganked you dont know its coming and dont prepare. Nobody keeps his buffs, hots and block up 24/7 unless he knows or strongly suspects a ganker to be nearby.

It is possible to avoid, trust me I main Stamblade in PvP and the exact combo in OP is blocked/dodged a lot.

Good players keep their buffs up.

It is not possible to avoid it consistently since update 25. Trust me, ive seen it from both perspectives hundreds of times. Neither me or other good players are slow when it comes to breakfree or dodge/block.
Also there is no telegraph so unless you permablock you have to guess to block it.

Even having the cp Slippery that autobreak-free for you doesn't save you from a gank even if you insta roll dodge after it or block cast heals or whatever. Unless you have 40k hp full impen with crit resist cp as well you will always die to a good ganker who set his combo perfectly from stealth, and exactly like you said it's all because of server desyncs that delays your break-free and roll dodge and instead makes you getting hit by 4 abilities registered all at once for the server, so the moment you break-free you are already dead for the server, but in your client you don't see it yet, and so you die regardless.

I dunno if I wanna call for nerfs on nightblade, I do know Incap and SA stuns are causing lot of hitbox desyncs on the level of Snipe and Overloads if not more, it is frustating, but what can we do if they don't wanna improve those trash servers? Just nothing, keep playing and adapt.

In my experience, it is easy to survive a gank with 30k health. I don't even rolldodge. I just block with my SnB bar and heal. What bothers me now is that after the initial attack it's gotten harder to catch the NB. The extra 10% speed from CP and the fact that the improved stealth detection skills are not working properly when NB have insane speeds. It is frustrating. I can't understand the mentality of players anymore. Cloak is a great skill for outnumbered fighting. There is a justification to use the skill if you are fighting more than one player at a time. But, in a 1v1, if you have to run and hide in a 1v1. why are you even playing the game.

Honestly that is pretty standard gameplay. You should enjoy your OPness, btw. I know this is a matter of degrees and there are people who flat out run away after a failed gank every time. That, however, doesn't necessarily mean they are cowards. That may just mean they know their limitations in terms of their skill or build. If my burst from stealth doesn't work, for whatever reason, I frequently know that I'm not going to do better in an ongoing fight where I no longer have the element of surprise. It's just experience. If you blocked or mitigated everything without taking a significant hit to your health, that also means you may be ready for immediate counter attack. Depending on what sets I'm running, I may literally know that I can't push and you'll just kill me. If you're a DK I'm particularly weary of you leaping me. Speed and cloak are my main defenses.

That said, I play a melee Caluurion magblade, not a stamblade. Stamblade has arguably more native power. I've tried Caluurion + Thunder Caller this patch (not Hrothgar yet), but when I hit tanky characters for 4K each or, in the extreme case, for only 2.5K each, without the target blocking, there really is not much point in continuing. I don't like it, but I have no choice. As a single target magblade, I'm often relegated to killing weak players or damaged players, e.g. to Xv1 or AvA in the latter case. For playability I've now returned to back-barring Juggernaut and putting Zoal back on. That is a whole lot better. With that setup I can brawl, but of course my damage is even less.

Why am I playing this game? One answer is that I have never fully grown out of being a role-player. Winning a duel is satisfying, but my objectives also include helping my faction, making Tel Var and helping the campaign.

There is a certain type of player, who plays with what I might call the heavy armor mindset, who builds tanky enough and then compensates for that with limited sustain and with a big attack rotation that possibly includes DOTs and debuffs. I sometimes run into players who are, then, like a dog with a bone. Who stay in the fight, who are determined to prove they can win in their semi-tanky setup. I, on the other hand, play builds that major on mobility and sustain, because I feel more connected to those builds. I find them nice to play at a viseceral level. Most of my builds are not meta. I've long ago accepted my limitations. The fact that I can't kill everyone. The fact that most open world fights are won or lost by shifting numbers, e.g. by more of one or the other faction turning up. The fact that your prowess has a limited impact on the outcome of any fight.

You may get satisfaction from competing at the most meta levels of the game. You may view the meta as defined by kill ratios, 1vX capability and duelling success. In open world, though, that's not everything. If you play a tanky brawler type, then you tend to give away movement and, possibly, the sustain for prolonged sprinting. This is the bane of heavy armor. Your sustain comes from being attacked or, perhaps, partially from heavy attacks. In return you get the ability to brawl and nightblades can't really touch you. This is IMO par for the course. Asking for the ability to actively go after fast nightblades with such a build - if that's what you're playing - is IMO a bit much. You just want to be OP, then. You could probably get the versatility to go after cloaking nightblades via an AOE skill, a better detection skill / set (Sentry), potions and wearing WIld Hunt plus Celerity CP, but you did not do that, because you value other stuff more. That's due to the compromises you made, not due to a limitation of the game. If that's how you build, then it's not your place to actively go after nightblades. I, for one, find the new range and duration of Magelight / Camou Hunter just about right. I have no problem keeping nightblades out of cloak on my builds, which tend to be light / medium armor and fast.

Abyssmol

fred4 wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Every damn decent player is running around like a pseudo tank now and you want our damage to be even lower? If we lose anymore burst we will be straight up incapable of killing anyone good.

Decent players build tanky exactly because damage is absurd. If you instantly die to a gank it never mattered how good you are.

The offense is not that gankers and nb in general do high damage in general but that their burst damage is much higher than that of any other class, bar harmony necro. And that creates a situation where people either instantly die or they pump up their resistances and hp by so much that they will automaticly stalemate in any other encounter.

If nb burst gets nerfed the class will be in trouble because ZoS basicly degraded stamblade into a braindead suprise attack spam bot, which is a major design flaw.

ThePedge wrote: »

It's not unavoidable.

It is avoidable in theory only. Serverside desync and breakfree delays make it otherwise in practice. Before Update 25 you could always avoid the followup after a stun with no fail. Today thats not consistently possible anymore.
And when you get ganked you dont know its coming and dont prepare. Nobody keeps his buffs, hots and block up 24/7 unless he knows or strongly suspects a ganker to be nearby.

It is possible to avoid, trust me I main Stamblade in PvP and the exact combo in OP is blocked/dodged a lot.

Good players keep their buffs up.

It is not possible to avoid it consistently since update 25. Trust me, ive seen it from both perspectives hundreds of times. Neither me or other good players are slow when it comes to breakfree or dodge/block.
Also there is no telegraph so unless you permablock you have to guess to block it.

Even having the cp Slippery that autobreak-free for you doesn't save you from a gank even if you insta roll dodge after it or block cast heals or whatever. Unless you have 40k hp full impen with crit resist cp as well you will always die to a good ganker who set his combo perfectly from stealth, and exactly like you said it's all because of server desyncs that delays your break-free and roll dodge and instead makes you getting hit by 4 abilities registered all at once for the server, so the moment you break-free you are already dead for the server, but in your client you don't see it yet, and so you die regardless.

I dunno if I wanna call for nerfs on nightblade, I do know Incap and SA stuns are causing lot of hitbox desyncs on the level of Snipe and Overloads if not more, it is frustating, but what can we do if they don't wanna improve those trash servers? Just nothing, keep playing and adapt.

In my experience, it is easy to survive a gank with 30k health. I don't even rolldodge. I just block with my SnB bar and heal. What bothers me now is that after the initial attack it's gotten harder to catch the NB. The extra 10% speed from CP and the fact that the improved stealth detection skills are not working properly when NB have insane speeds. It is frustrating. I can't understand the mentality of players anymore. Cloak is a great skill for outnumbered fighting. There is a justification to use the skill if you are fighting more than one player at a time. But, in a 1v1, if you have to run and hide in a 1v1. why are you even playing the game.

Honestly that is pretty standard gameplay. You should enjoy your OPness, btw. I know this is a matter of degrees and there are people who flat out run away after a failed gank every time. That, however, doesn't necessarily mean they are cowards. That may just mean they know their limitations in terms of their skill or build. If my burst from stealth doesn't work, for whatever reason, I frequently know that I'm not going to do better in an ongoing fight where I no longer have the element of surprise. It's just experience. If you blocked or mitigated everything without taking a significant hit to your health, that also means you may be ready for immediate counter attack. Depending on what sets I'm running, I may literally know that I can't push and you'll just kill me. If you're a DK I'm particularly weary of you leaping me. Speed and cloak are my main defenses.

That said, I play a melee Caluurion magblade, not a stamblade. Stamblade has arguably more native power. I've tried Caluurion + Thunder Caller this patch (not Hrothgar yet), but when I hit tanky characters for 4K each or, in the extreme case, for only 2.5K each, without the target blocking, there really is not much point in continuing. I don't like it, but I have no choice. As a single target magblade, I'm often relegated to killing weak players or damaged players, e.g. to Xv1 or AvA in the latter case. For playability I've now returned to back-barring Juggernaut and putting Zoal back on. That is a whole lot better. With that setup I can brawl, but of course my damage is even less.

Why am I playing this game? One answer is that I have never fully grown out of being a role-player. Winning a duel is satisfying, but my objectives also include helping my faction, making Tel Var and helping the campaign.

There is a certain type of player, who plays with what I might call the heavy armor mindset, who builds tanky enough and then compensates for that with limited sustain and with a big attack rotation that possibly includes DOTs and debuffs. I sometimes run into players who are, then, like a dog with a bone. Who stay in the fight, who are determined to prove they can win in their semi-tanky setup. I, on the other hand, play builds that major on mobility and sustain, because I feel more connected to those builds. I find them nice to play at a viseceral level. Most of my builds are not meta. I've long ago accepted my limitations. The fact that I can't kill everyone. The fact that most open world fights are won or lost by shifting numbers, e.g. by more of one or the other faction turning up. The fact that your prowess has a limited impact on the outcome of any fight.

You may get satisfaction from competing at the most meta levels of the game. You may view the meta as defined by kill ratios, 1vX capability and duelling success. In open world, though, that's not everything. If you play a tanky brawler type, then you tend to give away movement and, possibly, the sustain for prolonged sprinting. This is the bane of heavy armor. Your sustain comes from being attacked or, perhaps, partially from heavy attacks. In return you get the ability to brawl and nightblades can't really touch you. This is IMO par for the course. Asking for the ability to actively go after fast nightblades with such a build - if that's what you're playing - is IMO a bit much. You just want to be OP, then. You could probably get the versatility to go after cloaking nightblades via an AOE skill, a better detection skill / set (Sentry), potions and wearing WIld Hunt plus Celerity CP, but you did not do that, because you value other stuff more. That's due to the compromises you made, not due to a limitation of the game. If that's how you build, then it's not your place to actively go after nightblades. I, for one, find the new range and duration of Magelight / Camou Hunter just about right. I have no problem keeping nightblades out of cloak on my builds, which tend to be light / medium armor and fast.

I wear 3 light, 3 medium, 1 heave and the wild hunt ring. The problem I'm finding with the new speeds cause by cp, and server lag on prime time, is that even when the NB is in front of me, and I have maglight on, the NB does not get reveal for 3 seconds and just rolldodge and cloaks away. The stealth detection are not working properly.
I can respect that you disengage the fight if you know you can win. But there are many NB out there that don't. These NB start the fight from stealth then run away and hide and continue attacking from stealth over and over in a 1v1. Detection Potions would probably work better but I don't use them because I get my spell and crit buffs from the alliance potions. We have detection skills, and they should work.

To these NBs, yes they are cowards. If they want to continue a 1v1 fight then they're not ganker. At that point, they are brawler abusing a skill meant for escape and ganking. I don't run from a fight. Why would I? This is a video game! It helps me find out how good or bad I am. It forces me to improve. I have no interest in fighting anyone that constantly run and hides to reset a fight. In most cases I just try to move away, but these heroes continue to poke and run away. Yes they are cowards!

neferpitou73

Is this thread serious...?

fred4

Abyssmol wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Every damn decent player is running around like a pseudo tank now and you want our damage to be even lower? If we lose anymore burst we will be straight up incapable of killing anyone good.

Decent players build tanky exactly because damage is absurd. If you instantly die to a gank it never mattered how good you are.

The offense is not that gankers and nb in general do high damage in general but that their burst damage is much higher than that of any other class, bar harmony necro. And that creates a situation where people either instantly die or they pump up their resistances and hp by so much that they will automaticly stalemate in any other encounter.

If nb burst gets nerfed the class will be in trouble because ZoS basicly degraded stamblade into a braindead suprise attack spam bot, which is a major design flaw.

ThePedge wrote: »

It's not unavoidable.

It is avoidable in theory only. Serverside desync and breakfree delays make it otherwise in practice. Before Update 25 you could always avoid the followup after a stun with no fail. Today thats not consistently possible anymore.
And when you get ganked you dont know its coming and dont prepare. Nobody keeps his buffs, hots and block up 24/7 unless he knows or strongly suspects a ganker to be nearby.

It is possible to avoid, trust me I main Stamblade in PvP and the exact combo in OP is blocked/dodged a lot.

Good players keep their buffs up.

It is not possible to avoid it consistently since update 25. Trust me, ive seen it from both perspectives hundreds of times. Neither me or other good players are slow when it comes to breakfree or dodge/block.
Also there is no telegraph so unless you permablock you have to guess to block it.

Even having the cp Slippery that autobreak-free for you doesn't save you from a gank even if you insta roll dodge after it or block cast heals or whatever. Unless you have 40k hp full impen with crit resist cp as well you will always die to a good ganker who set his combo perfectly from stealth, and exactly like you said it's all because of server desyncs that delays your break-free and roll dodge and instead makes you getting hit by 4 abilities registered all at once for the server, so the moment you break-free you are already dead for the server, but in your client you don't see it yet, and so you die regardless.

I dunno if I wanna call for nerfs on nightblade, I do know Incap and SA stuns are causing lot of hitbox desyncs on the level of Snipe and Overloads if not more, it is frustating, but what can we do if they don't wanna improve those trash servers? Just nothing, keep playing and adapt.

In my experience, it is easy to survive a gank with 30k health. I don't even rolldodge. I just block with my SnB bar and heal. What bothers me now is that after the initial attack it's gotten harder to catch the NB. The extra 10% speed from CP and the fact that the improved stealth detection skills are not working properly when NB have insane speeds. It is frustrating. I can't understand the mentality of players anymore. Cloak is a great skill for outnumbered fighting. There is a justification to use the skill if you are fighting more than one player at a time. But, in a 1v1, if you have to run and hide in a 1v1. why are you even playing the game.

Honestly that is pretty standard gameplay. You should enjoy your OPness, btw. I know this is a matter of degrees and there are people who flat out run away after a failed gank every time. That, however, doesn't necessarily mean they are cowards. That may just mean they know their limitations in terms of their skill or build. If my burst from stealth doesn't work, for whatever reason, I frequently know that I'm not going to do better in an ongoing fight where I no longer have the element of surprise. It's just experience. If you blocked or mitigated everything without taking a significant hit to your health, that also means you may be ready for immediate counter attack. Depending on what sets I'm running, I may literally know that I can't push and you'll just kill me. If you're a DK I'm particularly weary of you leaping me. Speed and cloak are my main defenses.

That said, I play a melee Caluurion magblade, not a stamblade. Stamblade has arguably more native power. I've tried Caluurion + Thunder Caller this patch (not Hrothgar yet), but when I hit tanky characters for 4K each or, in the extreme case, for only 2.5K each, without the target blocking, there really is not much point in continuing. I don't like it, but I have no choice. As a single target magblade, I'm often relegated to killing weak players or damaged players, e.g. to Xv1 or AvA in the latter case. For playability I've now returned to back-barring Juggernaut and putting Zoal back on. That is a whole lot better. With that setup I can brawl, but of course my damage is even less.

Why am I playing this game? One answer is that I have never fully grown out of being a role-player. Winning a duel is satisfying, but my objectives also include helping my faction, making Tel Var and helping the campaign.

There is a certain type of player, who plays with what I might call the heavy armor mindset, who builds tanky enough and then compensates for that with limited sustain and with a big attack rotation that possibly includes DOTs and debuffs. I sometimes run into players who are, then, like a dog with a bone. Who stay in the fight, who are determined to prove they can win in their semi-tanky setup. I, on the other hand, play builds that major on mobility and sustain, because I feel more connected to those builds. I find them nice to play at a viseceral level. Most of my builds are not meta. I've long ago accepted my limitations. The fact that I can't kill everyone. The fact that most open world fights are won or lost by shifting numbers, e.g. by more of one or the other faction turning up. The fact that your prowess has a limited impact on the outcome of any fight.

You may get satisfaction from competing at the most meta levels of the game. You may view the meta as defined by kill ratios, 1vX capability and duelling success. In open world, though, that's not everything. If you play a tanky brawler type, then you tend to give away movement and, possibly, the sustain for prolonged sprinting. This is the bane of heavy armor. Your sustain comes from being attacked or, perhaps, partially from heavy attacks. In return you get the ability to brawl and nightblades can't really touch you. This is IMO par for the course. Asking for the ability to actively go after fast nightblades with such a build - if that's what you're playing - is IMO a bit much. You just want to be OP, then. You could probably get the versatility to go after cloaking nightblades via an AOE skill, a better detection skill / set (Sentry), potions and wearing WIld Hunt plus Celerity CP, but you did not do that, because you value other stuff more. That's due to the compromises you made, not due to a limitation of the game. If that's how you build, then it's not your place to actively go after nightblades. I, for one, find the new range and duration of Magelight / Camou Hunter just about right. I have no problem keeping nightblades out of cloak on my builds, which tend to be light / medium armor and fast.

I wear 3 light, 3 medium, 1 heave and the wild hunt ring. The problem I'm finding with the new speeds cause by cp, and server lag on prime time, is that even when the NB is in front of me, and I have maglight on, the NB does not get reveal for 3 seconds and just rolldodge and cloaks away. The stealth detection are not working properly.
I can respect that you disengage the fight if you know you can win. But there are many NB out there that don't. These NB start the fight from stealth then run away and hide and continue attacking from stealth over and over in a 1v1. Detection Potions would probably work better but I don't use them because I get my spell and crit buffs from the alliance potions. We have detection skills, and they should work.

To these NBs, yes they are cowards. If they want to continue a 1v1 fight then they're not ganker. At that point, they are brawler abusing a skill meant for escape and ganking. I don't run from a fight. Why would I? This is a video game! It helps me find out how good or bad I am. It forces me to improve. I have no interest in fighting anyone that constantly run and hides to reset a fight. In most cases I just try to move away, but these heroes continue to poke and run away. Yes they are cowards!

Prime time lag causes positional desyncs. I saw a post from a couple once, who both played ESO on two PCs next to each other. They noticed that their relative position never matched exactly what was shown on their partner's screen at the best of times. Lag exacerbates that. I have stood right in front of keep guards in heavy lag and been unable to hit them. That could be skills not firing or a positional desync. The guard was simply not where I saw them. Same with players. If Magelight / Camou Hunter does not work in lag, it could well be the player was already positionally desynced when you last saw them and that's why those skills don't work.

I've been watching a few old videos and the new range and just that one second of additional duration definitely makes a difference. I am starting to use Magelight successfully where, previously, I have not bothered. It's also quite nasty on the receiving end.

As to players being a nuisance. Maybe they are cowards. Maybe most of them, but I don't know. Maybe they are noobs, trying what they can do. I've certainly aggravated some players in my time. Not really in this particular way, but whenever I've done something or worn a set that turned out a bit trolly it sometimes seems I immediately attract comments. I once wore Meridia's long a ago, when it could only be obtained at below vet (CP) levels. It was so uncommon that, when I wore it in IC, no one knew what it was. I ran into a guy who threatened to report me for cheating almost immediately. Now you may well be right and some players are cowardly. All I'm saying is, in individual cases you don't know what their deal is. Are they trying something new or are they just new to PvP in general. For example stamblade, strange as that may seem, is quite alien to me. I'm really clumsy with it. So I would attack someone a few times - the only guy around - because I messed up my combo repeatedly and I simply needed practice.

baselesschart

jerj6925 wrote: »

Guaranteed if a Templar had the ability to hit some one this hard this fast there would be screams of destruction for the class. Yet a NB (bomber) can instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 30 people ... instantly not over the course of a 5 minute fight, instantly and some how the NB class is not OP it was 30 people playing bad not the one person killing them.

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

You're screaming for nerfs because of one playstyle on one class that is literally designed to kill large groups of players? What if I yelled for nerfs on a DK for using a perma block build? Thats not really a class issue. If you've ever caught hold of a bomber, which isn't that hard to do, especially with detect pots you'll know that they just fall right over because they've built everything into pure damage. I can't really make you understand without playing a nightblade, its one of the most unforgiving classes in the game, it doesn't oblige you with the healing that you get with almost every other class.

Kaysha

This thread is becoming a joke in face of the dark convergence necro and warden bombers

DrSlaughtr

99% of NB complaints are due to server desync. Not my fault. Does it help me get kills? Sometimes. Would I gladly prefer the server to work right? Absolutely.

NBs aren't the only ones who desync though. They just get the heat for it.

PancakeHead

Who cares? No no one respects gankers anyway.

ResidentContrarian

jerj6925 wrote: »

Guaranteed if a Templar had the ability to hit some one this hard this fast there would be screams of destruction for the class. Yet a NB (bomber) can instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 30 people ... instantly not over the course of a 5 minute fight, instantly and some how the NB class is not OP it was 30 people playing bad not the one person killing them.

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

Templars can also bomb, in fact any class can do it. Every class has the ability to destroy someone in the same timeframe, the only difference is whether you see it or not.

And, now that vampire and invis pots are easy ways to gain the advantage of stealth, every class can easily replicate stealth ganking one way or another.

The only reason you don't see it often is that players are choosing not to do so for a number of reasons. The biggest one being that ganking is not really as effective as people think.

Just because you see a video of someone doing something doesn't mean it's the case every time or a good sample of reality. You must remember that all media is a production, and productions have specific goals...

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

jerj6925 wrote: »

Guaranteed if a Templar had the ability to hit some one this hard this fast there would be screams of destruction for the class. Yet a NB (bomber) can instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 30 people ... instantly not over the course of a 5 minute fight, instantly and some how the NB class is not OP it was 30 people playing bad not the one person killing them.

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

Templars can also bomb, in fact any class can do it. Every class has the ability to destroy someone in the same timeframe, the only difference is whether you see it or not.

And, now that vampire and invis pots are easy ways to gain the advantage of stealth, every class can easily replicate stealth ganking one way or another.

The only reason you don't see it often is that players are choosing not to do so for a number of reasons. The biggest one being that ganking is not really as effective as people think.

Just because you see a video of someone doing something doesn't mean it's the case every time or a good sample of reality. You must remember that all media is a production, and productions have specific goals...

Yeah ganking is getting pretty iffy. The pool of players that it actually works on gets smaller and smaller every patch. When snipe got giga nerfed that pool of players you could gank dropped drastically. I mean if someone is a total potato you can still gank them with snipe, but I think ganking has evolved after the snipe nerf. I see a lot more melee ganks and heavy attacks now. No point slotting snipe when a bow heavy does more damage and doesn't cost stamina. Still tons of fun for me because I hate high ttk gameplay with a passion. Idk if nb is even still the king of ganking, might be sorcerer now.

DUTCH_REAPER

Patro wrote: »

I thought it was obvious that I was ganked.

Takes 5 light attacks or 2 heavy attacks and a light attack to proc AS/AW. You are in IC and he prolly attacked npcs to get his proc up and ready.

You got hit with an ULT that increases your damage taken by 20% as well as taken the damage from that ult.
Then you got hit with his AS arrow. (Holy crap he landed it? Haha)
Your resistance means nothing with him wearing balorghs and sharpened trait and lover mundus. You can be considered naked from the moment he ult’d you.
Yeah you got rekt.

Dodge roll, block. And don’t ever think you are alone in IC.

DrSlaughtr

jerj6925 wrote: »

Guaranteed if a Templar had the ability to hit some one this hard this fast there would be screams of destruction for the class. Yet a NB (bomber) can instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 30 people ... instantly not over the course of a 5 minute fight, instantly and some how the NB class is not OP it was 30 people playing bad not the one person killing them.

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

Templars have one of, if not THE best burst heal in the game. Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE. The mag version also heals you but even if you're Stam you're probably slotting the CP that returns health on damage. They can gravity bomb. They can destro bomb. They can and many do run vamp because, spoiler alert, anyone can crouch to get the damage buff.

You really don't want to compare toolkits with a class that, over the years, has been made really good at one playstyle and garbage in the rest. A class who's most potent attacks warn you before you strike.

Veinblood1965

Stx wrote: »

After carefully inspecting your death recap I have come to the conclusion that heavy attacks need to be buffed!

You got an awesome for that.

fred4

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Templars have one of, if not THE best burst heal in the game.

I am reading this a little out of context, but there are so many things that I find distorted about your summary of templar strengths, I want to go through these points. I play both nightblade and templar, by the way, both flavors of those classes, although I major on the magicka variants.

I believe the prize for best burst heal (that doesn't scale with health) goes to pet sorc, if that hasn't been nerfed again. It certainly did for quite a while, whereas Honor the Dead had been relatively nerfed. Furthermore I find burst heals somewhat overrated. Ideally you need both a burst heal and ongoing healing. PvP magplars struggle with he latter. The class is notorious for being forced onto the backbar and into spamming their burst heal, if they are not well built or well played. Honor the Dead is a defining feature of the class only in so far as it supports a particular playstyle. I think it's decent, but by no means OP.

Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE.

And yet it has so many drawbacks too. You can't block cast it. You're open to counterattack while spamming it. It is mitigated by Major Evasion. It is mitigated by pets, by Engine Guardian, and by running into a bunch of NPCs in IC. Landing all 4 hits is by no means guaranteed. It is a clunky skill. In terms of how it scales with your spell damage and magicka, the skill packs a hefty punch, but I feel it's merely about right, considering all it's drawbacks. In PvP in particular templars play much better, certainly at the beginner to intermediate level, if you build somewhat tanky. This is the curse of your star heal (Honor the Dead) being a reactive skill that you cast after having let your health run down.

The mag version also heals you but even if you're Stam you're probably slotting the CP that returns health on damage.

This just tells me you have little to no experience with templar in PvP. The Sweeps heal is nice to have. That's all. It is powerful in PvE whereas in PvP it pretty much sucks. In a straight face off between a magblade with Swallow Soul plus Siphoning Attacks, I actually fancy the magblade. This depends heavily on the exact encounter, but the magblade actually stands a chance in some straight-up attrition fights, which you probably would not expect given how well Sweeps scales in terms of damage.

It's actually quite hard to integrate ongoing healing into a PvP magplar. I'm with ZOS on this one. They buffed Extended Ritual with a heal in recent years to mild disbelief from the playerbase. They also gave templars Living Dark. On the other hand they also gave everyone more speed. For me magplar is quite a dynamic class on account of having a gap closer. I, for one, don't want to stay in my ritual.

Having tried the 7% heal from damage CP, there is (a) nothing specific to templar that would make you run it and (b) it's crap. I've actually tried all this. I've tried Pale Order and anything else that would improve magplar in PvP along those lines. It actually works quite well (just the CP star is crap), but you have to throw the kitchen sink at it. You could probably do the same with other classes.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with nightblade, by the way, certainly not based on the evidence presented by the OP, which merely points to a desync. I just don't think your summary of templar's ostensible strength makes for a good argument.

fred4

jerj6925 wrote: »

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

I have come to the conclusion that ZOS measure balance in terms of the build variety that players choose and I agree with them. It doesn't matter that a (nightblade) bomber can take out 20 to 30 people in one go. It's only a problem if everyone starts doing it at the expense of other builds. Not everyone is attracted to playing a bomber. I never have been and I main a magblade. The reason is that bombers are situational. Last patch they weren't. Last patch Proxy Det scaling was off and bombers started winning 1v1s. That was a problem. Now we're back to normal, I believe. Bombers have to lay in wait for their opportunity. They're also (historically) relying on a skill that takes 8 seconds to fire. It takes strategic thinking and experience to pull that off. Will a bomber actually achieve more kills in the same time as you? Only under the right conditions, e.g. prime time or an event is on. I think most players prefer more versatile builds most of the time.

fred4

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah ganking is getting pretty iffy. The pool of players that it actually works on gets smaller and smaller every patch.

Not sure that is a linear trend. Last patch was arguably the patch of the ganker. Just not exclusively nightblades (stamsorc, <cough>). The squishier everyone is, the more that favors mobility and stealth builds.

DrSlaughtr

fred4 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Templars have one of, if not THE best burst heal in the game.

I am reading this a little out of context, but there are so many things that I find distorted about your summary of templar strengths, I want to go through these points. I play both nightblade and templar, by the way, both flavors of those classes, although I major on the magicka variants.

I believe the prize for best burst heal (that doesn't scale with health) goes to pet sorc, if that hasn't been nerfed again. It certainly did for quite a while, whereas Honor the Dead had been relatively nerfed. Furthermore I find burst heals somewhat overrated. Ideally you need both a burst heal and ongoing healing. PvP magplars struggle with he latter. The class is notorious for being forced onto the backbar and into spamming their burst heal, if they are not well built or well played. Honor the Dead is a defining feature of the class only in so far as it supports a particular playstyle. I think it's decent, but by no means OP.

Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE.

And yet it has so many drawbacks too. You can't block cast it. You're open to counterattack while spamming it. It is mitigated by Major Evasion. It is mitigated by pets, by Engine Guardian, and by running into a bunch of NPCs in IC. Landing all 4 hits is by no means guaranteed. It is a clunky skill. In terms of how it scales with your spell damage and magicka, the skill packs a hefty punch, but I feel it's merely about right, considering all it's drawbacks. In PvP in particular templars play much better, certainly at the beginner to intermediate level, if you build somewhat tanky. This is the curse of your star heal (Honor the Dead) being a reactive skill that you cast after having let your health run down.

The mag version also heals you but even if you're Stam you're probably slotting the CP that returns health on damage.

This just tells me you have little to no experience with templar in PvP. The Sweeps heal is nice to have. That's all. It is powerful in PvE whereas in PvP it pretty much sucks. In a straight face off between a magblade with Swallow Soul plus Siphoning Attacks, I actually fancy the magblade. This depends heavily on the exact encounter, but the magblade actually stands a chance in some straight-up attrition fights, which you probably would not expect given how well Sweeps scales in terms of damage.

It's actually quite hard to integrate ongoing healing into a PvP magplar. I'm with ZOS on this one. They buffed Extended Ritual with a heal in recent years to mild disbelief from the playerbase. They also gave templars Living Dark. On the other hand they also gave everyone more speed. For me magplar is quite a dynamic class on account of having a gap closer. I, for one, don't want to stay in my ritual.

Having tried the 7% heal from damage CP, there is (a) nothing specific to templar that would make you run it and (b) it's crap. I've actually tried all this. I've tried Pale Order and anything else that would improve magplar in PvP along those lines. It actually works quite well (just the CP star is crap), but you have to throw the kitchen sink at it. You could probably do the same with other classes.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with nightblade, by the way, certainly not based on the evidence presented by the OP, which merely points to a desync. I just don't think your summary of templar's ostensible strength makes for a good argument.

I'm very well aquatinted with pvp templar.

Honor the dead, my preferred morph, crits me 28k health. Non-crit still pushes 20k. Yes, that matters when facing NBs, because if they fail to kill me while I'm CC'd, they are either dead or running away, because one hit of honor the dead and I'm all good.

Yes, healing on sweeps matters. As does extended ritual which I can get 3k per tick from. You combine all three sources of healing PLUS CP health return PLUS pale order and you have a class that can survive quite well AND kill.

I'm not even going to go into the rest of their defense tool kit which is quite substantial.

So please, let's not get ridiculous and pretend that NBs are as well rounded, with the ability to perform many different playstyles, as templars, wardens, necros, and sorcs.

NBs do one thing well. Burst damage. You take that away and what's left? These threads are ridiculous.

fred4

TheEndBringer wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Templars have one of, if not THE best burst heal in the game.

I am reading this a little out of context, but there are so many things that I find distorted about your summary of templar strengths, I want to go through these points. I play both nightblade and templar, by the way, both flavors of those classes, although I major on the magicka variants.

I believe the prize for best burst heal (that doesn't scale with health) goes to pet sorc, if that hasn't been nerfed again. It certainly did for quite a while, whereas Honor the Dead had been relatively nerfed. Furthermore I find burst heals somewhat overrated. Ideally you need both a burst heal and ongoing healing. PvP magplars struggle with he latter. The class is notorious for being forced onto the backbar and into spamming their burst heal, if they are not well built or well played. Honor the Dead is a defining feature of the class only in so far as it supports a particular playstyle. I think it's decent, but by no means OP.

Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE.

And yet it has so many drawbacks too. You can't block cast it. You're open to counterattack while spamming it. It is mitigated by Major Evasion. It is mitigated by pets, by Engine Guardian, and by running into a bunch of NPCs in IC. Landing all 4 hits is by no means guaranteed. It is a clunky skill. In terms of how it scales with your spell damage and magicka, the skill packs a hefty punch, but I feel it's merely about right, considering all it's drawbacks. In PvP in particular templars play much better, certainly at the beginner to intermediate level, if you build somewhat tanky. This is the curse of your star heal (Honor the Dead) being a reactive skill that you cast after having let your health run down.

The mag version also heals you but even if you're Stam you're probably slotting the CP that returns health on damage.

This just tells me you have little to no experience with templar in PvP. The Sweeps heal is nice to have. That's all. It is powerful in PvE whereas in PvP it pretty much sucks. In a straight face off between a magblade with Swallow Soul plus Siphoning Attacks, I actually fancy the magblade. This depends heavily on the exact encounter, but the magblade actually stands a chance in some straight-up attrition fights, which you probably would not expect given how well Sweeps scales in terms of damage.

It's actually quite hard to integrate ongoing healing into a PvP magplar. I'm with ZOS on this one. They buffed Extended Ritual with a heal in recent years to mild disbelief from the playerbase. They also gave templars Living Dark. On the other hand they also gave everyone more speed. For me magplar is quite a dynamic class on account of having a gap closer. I, for one, don't want to stay in my ritual.

Having tried the 7% heal from damage CP, there is (a) nothing specific to templar that would make you run it and (b) it's crap. I've actually tried all this. I've tried Pale Order and anything else that would improve magplar in PvP along those lines. It actually works quite well (just the CP star is crap), but you have to throw the kitchen sink at it. You could probably do the same with other classes.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with nightblade, by the way, certainly not based on the evidence presented by the OP, which merely points to a desync. I just don't think your summary of templar's ostensible strength makes for a good argument.

I'm very well aquatinted with pvp templar.

Honor the dead, my preferred morph, crits me 28k health. Non-crit still pushes 20k. Yes, that matters when facing NBs, because if they fail to kill me while I'm CC'd, they are either dead or running away, because one hit of honor the dead and I'm all good.

Yes, healing on sweeps matters. As does extended ritual which I can get 3k per tick from. You combine all three sources of healing PLUS CP health return PLUS pale order and you have a class that can survive quite well AND kill.

I'm not even going to go into the rest of their defense tool kit which is quite substantial.

So please, let's not get ridiculous and pretend that NBs are as well rounded, with the ability to perform many different playstyles, as templars, wardens, necros, and sorcs.

NBs do one thing well. Burst damage. You take that away and what's left? These threads are ridiculous.

I'm guessing you build for pure spell damage? Low pen and low crit?

BTW I'm not doubting you survive, but now I'm kind of curious how you do it, becaue we probably do it slightly differently. For example, for me, stam sustain is a big part of the equation, but I play no vamp no Mist Form characters. In spite of the OPs claims, a ganking NB does not have instant burst, it's more like a high pressure window after Incap. Even the spectral bow at the ready is still 2 GCDs with both skills incurring a 400ms delay, as explained previously. I typically mitigate with dodge rolls and block-healing (Honor the Dead while blocking).

Abyssmol

TheEndBringer wrote: »

jerj6925 wrote: »

Guaranteed if a Templar had the ability to hit some one this hard this fast there would be screams of destruction for the class. Yet a NB (bomber) can instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 30 people ... instantly not over the course of a 5 minute fight, instantly and some how the NB class is not OP it was 30 people playing bad not the one person killing them.

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

Templars have one of, if not THE best burst heal in the game. Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE. The mag version also heals you but even if you're Stam you're probably slotting the CP that returns health on damage. They can gravity bomb. They can destro bomb. They can and many do run vamp because, spoiler alert, anyone can crouch to get the damage buff.

You really don't want to compare toolkits with a class that, over the years, has been made really good at one playstyle and garbage in the rest. A class who's most potent attacks warn you before you strike.

"Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE." And that's the problem direct/ AOE damage. So let me list the damage reduction the spammable Templar skill gets - CP direct damage mitigation - 10%; CP AOE damage mitigation -10%; evasion skill - 20%. That's a total of 40% damage reduction jabs gets by just fighting a stamina character. Mind you this is not considering battle spirit, armor resistances,
major/minor protection, and any other damage mitigation skill (necro), etc...How common is this? Very! The two best damage mitigation in the cp tree are the ones mentioned above. Everyone uses then. Evasion skill - if you are not using evasion as a stamina player you are a noob! Most hard hitting skills and Ultimates are AOE damage! 20% mitigation is not a joke! So please tell me again how powerful the Templar spammable is against a stamina player using evasion. He'll I use evasion on my Templar (specter eye set), and I laugh everytime I fight a Templar. My speed is 32% at all times without buff (hunt ring, one swift, 10% cp tree), and I just walk through jabs. Yeah jabs is so great! Specially on lag!!!

Abyssmol

Abyssmol wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

jerj6925 wrote: »

Guaranteed if a Templar had the ability to hit some one this hard this fast there would be screams of destruction for the class. Yet a NB (bomber) can instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 30 people ... instantly not over the course of a 5 minute fight, instantly and some how the NB class is not OP it was 30 people playing bad not the one person killing them.

The NB is seriously OP on a number of levels but trying to pint that out on these forums is pointless because so many will defend the class to protect what they have. No interest in balance just keeping the God class alive.

Templars have one of, if not THE best burst heal in the game. Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE. The mag version also heals you but even if you're Stam you're probably slotting the CP that returns health on damage. They can gravity bomb. They can destro bomb. They can and many do run vamp because, spoiler alert, anyone can crouch to get the damage buff.

You really don't want to compare toolkits with a class that, over the years, has been made really good at one playstyle and garbage in the rest. A class who's most potent attacks warn you before you strike.

"Their spammable is both direct damage AND an AOE." And that's the problem direct/ AOE damage. So let me list the damage reduction the spammable Templar skill gets - CP direct damage mitigation - 10%; CP AOE damage mitigation -10%; evasion skill - 20%. That's a total of 40% damage reduction jabs gets by just fighting a stamina character. Mind you this is not considering battle spirit, armor resistances,
major/minor protection, and any other damage mitigation skill (necro), etc...How common is this? Very! The two best damage mitigation in the cp tree are the ones mentioned above. Everyone uses then. Evasion skill - if you are not using evasion as a stamina player you are a noob! Most hard hitting skills and Ultimates are AOE damage! 20% mitigation is not a joke! So please tell me again how powerful the Templar spammable is against a stamina player using evasion. He'll I use evasion on my Templar (specter eye set), and I laugh everytime I fight a Templar. My speed is 32% at all times without buff (hunt ring, one swift, 10% cp tree), and I just walk through jabs. Yeah jabs is so great! Specially on lag!!!

I wish ZOS would at least acknowledge this crap with jabs. I don't know of any other spammable damage skill that is mitigated 40% right off the bat!