Hrothgar’s Chill is a Balanced Set

maxjapank

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Notably, it doesn't scale based on the attacker's stats

The damage scales with spell penetration.

Is this true? If I have a lots of penetration from a Sharpened Maul, for example, does Hrothgar hit the enemy harder? Or does my penetration take away from his total armor, thus making Hrothgar hit for less?

mmtaniac

No, not balanced

Your inbuild penetration should only increase damage if you decrease enemy armor on them then you should hit less.

divnyi

No, not balanced

jaws343 wrote: »

Against a lower armored target, light armor user or medium armor user, in a 1v1, it's going to add a small amount of burst damage, if they aren't wearing a resistance based defensive set. It will be useful, but more of a coin flip for running it or running a second set to boost the damage of all other skills.

Against heavy armor users and those running resistance boosting defensive sets, it's going to be quite good. But it will definitely work far better against multiple opponents than it will in 1v1 situations.

Looking forward to trying it out, and I have a few build ideas in mind, but I doubt it is really going to be too much of a problem. I think the plaque set is going to be far worse.

Actually, is this even true?

Let's say I have 20k amor when I'm fully buffed. That's not even amor sets level of armor, that's just basic amount PvP players run.

That's 40k if you count physical and magical armor totals.

26% of that is 10400 burst damage. Hell, 10400/7 = ~1500 DPS that doesn't scale with your stats, meaning we can now do 35k HP bruiser parties again, boyz.

EF321

Thing about this sets is that it hits you harder the more armor you have, but it also hits you harder the less armor you have - as you don't mitigate all that damage...

As such, for some reason I've been hit by 20-something-k Horhgar while being on 7 medium pieces with no resolve or anything, I have only ~13.5k resistances at all times. I was cast on me, I was alone there. Either that, or range is the size of tamriel.


Like with all the other sets that are designed to deal with one very specific issue, set is as good or even better for pretty much anything else.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Sounds like the new sets are just bugged all over the place. I am going to let them fix the bugs before I decide whether they are op or not. Of course the set that was designed to damage tanks is bugged. Now its going to get nerfed because of the bug and it will be unused after the nerf.

Zos make a set like mechanical acuity that gives you 5 seconds of unresistible/oblivion damage, so we can burst down tanks. Maybe 5 seconds where even 75% of your damage becomes oblivion, whatever works. I and I am pretty sure many others want a set just for killing tanks. Stop playing around with these overly complex proc sets that you clearly cant implement without bugs.

jaws343

Yes, balanced

divnyi wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Against a lower armored target, light armor user or medium armor user, in a 1v1, it's going to add a small amount of burst damage, if they aren't wearing a resistance based defensive set. It will be useful, but more of a coin flip for running it or running a second set to boost the damage of all other skills.

Against heavy armor users and those running resistance boosting defensive sets, it's going to be quite good. But it will definitely work far better against multiple opponents than it will in 1v1 situations.

Looking forward to trying it out, and I have a few build ideas in mind, but I doubt it is really going to be too much of a problem. I think the plaque set is going to be far worse.

Actually, is this even true?

Let's say I have 20k amor when I'm fully buffed. That's not even amor sets level of armor, that's just basic amount PvP players run.

That's 40k if you count physical and magical armor totals.

26% of that is 10400 burst damage. Hell, 10400/7 = ~1500 DPS that doesn't scale with your stats, meaning we can now do 35k HP bruiser parties again, boyz.

10K, but then you have to account for battle spirit, the actual mitigation that the 40K armor will do against the proc, and any % based mitigation the target may have.

SkaraMinoc

Yes, balanced

Nightblade standing next to DK will take 8k+ damage.



Nightblade by themself.

SkaraMinoc

Yes, balanced

Most damage I've been able to do is 9.7k. Not sure how players are getting 12-19k hits.

divnyi

No, not balanced

jaws343 wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Against a lower armored target, light armor user or medium armor user, in a 1v1, it's going to add a small amount of burst damage, if they aren't wearing a resistance based defensive set. It will be useful, but more of a coin flip for running it or running a second set to boost the damage of all other skills.

Against heavy armor users and those running resistance boosting defensive sets, it's going to be quite good. But it will definitely work far better against multiple opponents than it will in 1v1 situations.

Looking forward to trying it out, and I have a few build ideas in mind, but I doubt it is really going to be too much of a problem. I think the plaque set is going to be far worse.

Actually, is this even true?

Let's say I have 20k amor when I'm fully buffed. That's not even amor sets level of armor, that's just basic amount PvP players run.

That's 40k if you count physical and magical armor totals.

26% of that is 10400 burst damage. Hell, 10400/7 = ~1500 DPS that doesn't scale with your stats, meaning we can now do 35k HP bruiser parties again, boyz.

10K, but then you have to account for battle spirit, the actual mitigation that the 40K armor will do against the proc, and any % based mitigation the target may have.

You don't get it. Best old proc sets were doing same burst and almost the same DPS (I'm talking about theoretical DPS here, btw, because set is not broken and doing more than it should).

alberichtano

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Does it actually kill tanks? If so then its not op and if it doesn't it needs a buff. Game has been needing a proper tank buster for a long time now. A set that we can just slap on when someone is tanking 5 people at once and not dying. Passive defense should not be harder to counter then skill based/active defense like rolling, cloaking, blocking, shielding, etc. Wish tanks would stay in pve where they belong.

I will say that the set shouldn't have an aoe component. Shouldn't be punishing the squishy team mates of a tank for the tanks decision to stack armor. Really boggles the mind. Should be VERY effective against real tanks and better then other proc sets against people that try to blur the line between tank and dps. Should be good enough to scare people away from staking passive defenses, but not so good that it wrecks normal players too.

Speaking as a tank that lies dead more often than not in PvP, I disagree completely. :-P

HiImRex

The set is going to be a premere meta set, even if it gets fixed (more on the bug later).

While working as intended...

The set adds a reliable 4k AOE burst to your stuns, with a low CD that matches the natural stun immunity window.

This is a very user-friendly set, since it automatically applies the burst the moment your opponent is actually stunned, and not when the stun is attempted.

Even if it hits for 3k, it would be a decent set. If it hits for 4k+ then you can consider this a top tier set.

Lapin_Logic

No, not balanced

Totally Balanced, Clip of it in action. - High APM high skill player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-TGxrUQjkk

hexnotic

No, not balanced

has anyone seen a hrothgar proc hit less than 10k on a death recap? it’s sooo easy to use, especially on a sorc with streak… seems way too easy for something that hits so hard!

SkaraMinoc

Yes, balanced

hexnotic wrote: »

has anyone seen a hrothgar proc hit less than 10k on a death recap? it’s sooo easy to use, especially on a sorc with streak… seems way too easy for something that hits so hard!

Most of the time it only hits for 3-4k. It's very rare that it will hit for 10k.

universal_wrath

Yes, balanced

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Most damage I've been able to do is 9.7k. Not sure how players are getting 12-19k hits.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584449/okay-why-did-zos-think-it-was-a-good-idea-to-introduce-these-sets-for-pvp/p2

universal_wrath

Yes, balanced

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

No, but it is still more balanced than Dark Convergence...

You have to spec into spell/weapon damage to buff dark convergence, and even then, it peocs after 2 secs with 16 secs CD. Hrothgar chill is lieraly a chill set, you only need to CC a target from any range and dpending on how buffy that target, it will do damage, so you can be a healer or a tank that deals more damage than a damage build.

I better way to fight tank meta is to enterduce a penaly mechanic for blocking more that x secs like reduced healing or increased block cost that reset after leaving block for x time. Like streak penalty, this new block penaly will ramp up the more you block to point where you do 0 healing, blocking cost 5k+, or being snared/immobalized.

ResidentContrarian

hexnotic wrote: »

has anyone seen a hrothgar proc hit less than 10k on a death recap? it’s sooo easy to use, especially on a sorc with streak… seems way too easy for something that hits so hard!

Yes, it only hits me for 4k. There are zergs using it, and because I withstand damage they think I am a tank.

I was able to get my revenge on those players because they attempted to crutch too hard on the set. It won't kill everyone that appears "tanky" because there are different reasons for a player not dying other than stacking resists.

I don't think it's overpowered any more or less than someone with stacked resistances doing a lot of damage.

neferpitou73

No, not balanced

universal_wrath wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

No, but it is still more balanced than Dark Convergence...

You have to spec into spell/weapon damage to buff dark convergence, and even then, it peocs after 2 secs with 16 secs CD. Hrothgar chill is lieraly a chill set, you only need to CC a target from any range and dpending on how buffy that target, it will do damage, so you can be a healer or a tank that deals more damage than a damage build.

I better way to fight tank meta is to enterduce a penaly mechanic for blocking more that x secs like reduced healing or increased block cost that reset after leaving block for x time. Like streak penalty, this new block penaly will ramp up the more you block to point where you do 0 healing, blocking cost 5k+, or being snared/immobalized.

A better way to fight tank meta is to ensure tanky builds can't do damage. I could care less if someone can't die so long as they can't 2 shot people at the same time

ExistingRug61

maxjapank wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Notably, it doesn't scale based on the attacker's stats

The damage scales with spell penetration.

Is this true? If I have a lots of penetration from a Sharpened Maul, for example, does Hrothgar hit the enemy harder? Or does my penetration take away from his total armor, thus making Hrothgar hit for less?

@maxjapank my expectation is that it is the former.

Ie: it calculates its pre-mitigation damage based off the enemy resistance value and then that damage is mitigated by (resistance - penetration), as well as any other percentage mitigations.

So increasing pen should increase the damage it deals as it doesn’t change the pre-mitigation calculated value but will reduce the amount it gets mitigated by resistance. Or just use 2h ult or corrosive to get maximum value.

Note breach would work differently as this would actually affect the calculation of the pre-mitigation damage.

Emperor_ManBearPig

No, not balanced

No it’s not. The calculations are totally bugged and no one can provide a reason why the proc calculations are hitting so hard. The set allows you to build tanky with high health and still hit like a truck. I think this set is worse than proc sets 1.0 because Malacath+tank sets and a proc set didn’t hit this hard as hrothgar procs.

Emperor_ManBearPig

No, not balanced

Current state of cheese mode PVP with Hrothgar's Chill set.

taugrim

No, not balanced

Ralamil wrote: »

[snip]

Imbalanced proc sets are the problem.

Not proc sets in general.

E.g. after the attacker's stats-based scaling was implemented, people stopped complaining about sets such as Sheer Venom, Syvarra's Scales, Unleashed Terror, Venomous Smite, etc. Ditto for sets that were nerfed in terms of their tooltip values, e.g. Crimson Twilight.

[edited to remove quote]

relentless_turnip

Yes, balanced

On paper it's pretty balanced, though the percentage should scale with your weapon and spell damage. The execution is clearly bugged, but it shouldn't technically do more damage than most proc sets, it just does the same percentage of damage regardless of your opponent's tankiness. It needs to be fixed before we make any actual assessment.

SkaraMinoc

Yes, balanced

Emperor_ManBearPig wrote: »

Current state of cheese mode PVP with Hrothgar's Chill set.

"Have you tried PVE?"

taugrim

No, not balanced

Sharing a post from another thread. This from a BG yesterday, and this was quite common across BGs, sadly.

taugrim wrote: »

This is stupid even in BGs.

Today premades have been running in high MMR with 1 Dark Convergence + 3-4 Hrothgar's Chill:



There really isn't counter play to this, given that roots are spammable and can be applied by multiple players to the same target(s).

xHotguy6pack

Yes, balanced

Only people saying it's not balanced are the kids who get carried by tank sets like pariah in pvp.

HidesInPlainSight

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Most damage I've been able to do is 9.7k. Not sure how players are getting 12-19k hits.

They are procing it off of pets or other sources with higher resistances. At 20k resistences im getting hit for 9-10k when they proc it off blastbones.

Greek_Hellspawn

No, not balanced

xHotguy6pack wrote: »

Only people saying it's not balanced are the kids who get carried by tank sets like pariah in pvp.

Only people saying it's balanced are the kids who get carried by proc sets like hrothgar’s in pvp to get a kill.

Shaloknir

No, not balanced

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

hexnotic wrote: »

has anyone seen a hrothgar proc hit less than 10k on a death recap? it’s sooo easy to use, especially on a sorc with streak… seems way too easy for something that hits so hard!

Yes, it only hits me for 4k. There are zergs using it, and because I withstand damage they think I am a tank.

I was able to get my revenge on those players because they attempted to crutch too hard on the set. It won't kill everyone that appears "tanky" because there are different reasons for a player not dying other than stacking resists.

I don't think it's overpowered any more or less than someone with stacked resistances doing a lot of damage.

Sounds like someone is using ironblood :-)

StarMightyMaster

The set would not be so bad if..

1: the 26% was base on spell/weapon damage so if you have low spell/weapon damage the % would be lower.

2nd The aoe damage does not need to be there why?

3rd It's a set meant to kill tank so should only work on people above xxx res 27k 29k or something so it really is only good vs tanks then.

Getting hit by this set for 5 to 10k at 25k sub res is DUMB