Hrothgar’s Chill is a Balanced Set

TimeDazzler

divnyi

No, not balanced

Wait is this live? *slowpoke.jpg*

Doesn't show under https://eso-sets.com/sets/dlc/23

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Does it actually kill tanks? If so then its not op and if it doesn't it needs a buff. Game has been needing a proper tank buster for a long time now. A set that we can just slap on when someone is tanking 5 people at once and not dying. Passive defense should not be harder to counter then skill based/active defense like rolling, cloaking, blocking, shielding, etc. Wish tanks would stay in pve where they belong.

I will say that the set shouldn't have an aoe component. Shouldn't be punishing the squishy team mates of a tank for the tanks decision to stack armor. Really boggles the mind. Should be VERY effective against real tanks and better then other proc sets against people that try to blur the line between tank and dps. Should be good enough to scare people away from staking passive defenses, but not so good that it wrecks normal players too.

divnyi

No, not balanced

@xxslam48xxb14_ESO I don't think this set is anti-tank tool, more like another anti-zerg / anti-ball tool that is easier (maybe?) to set up than bomb.

Greasytengu

No, not balanced

Man I don't get ZOS.

People complain about dying too quickly to proc sets so they reduce incoming damage in an effort to up time to kill, but release sets that kill you because someone in your general vicinity had the audacity to buff their armour or purge a debuff from themselves.

Stx

No, not balanced

This set not only punishes you for building your character a certain way, the only set in the game to deal more damage to you the MORE armor you have, but its also an AoE, so you could have lower resists, and still get hit by this for massive amounts.

Hrothgars, Plague carrier, and dark convergence or whatever its called are all broken. Hrothgars is actually less broken than dark convergence, that set is super cheese, but it still could use a nerf. Its got an amazingly easy proc condition and scaling with target armor makes no sense.

allup8679

No, not balanced

divnyi wrote: »

Wait is this live? *slowpoke.jpg*

Doesn't show under https://eso-sets.com/sets/dlc/23

It's listed under the PVP sets due to it being a Reward of the Worthy drop.
https://eso-sets.com/sets/type/pvp

Wing

No, not balanced

i think its a problem set.

the problem is its a strong proc set full stop, baring the additional effects of AoE, AoE power boost, and resistance scaling.

without all that, it would still be a decent proc set.

now stack all that on top.

i think such heavy resistance scaling is a problem as well, as a go to if your getting killed is "oh i should build more tanky!"

HA HA jokes on you its just makes them do more damage!


if anything this set should scale with max health, we have many forms of penetration to deal with resistances and that whole play and counter play has MANY different sets and passives that have interplay in that system. we do not however, have as broad a set of tools to deal with hp.

but this all inversely effects specific classes over others anyway. if class balance was not so terrible this kind of stuff would not be needed.

im also simply not a fan of building defensive increasing enemy damage. so do we all just go glass cannon now? rock plaguebreaker and chill and just aoe wipe out groups pew pewing with a bow? defense coming from un mitigatable sources like just % damage reduction stacking?

cause thats where we are at.

katorga

Stx wrote: »

This set not only punishes you for building your character a certain way, the only set in the game to deal more damage to you the MORE armor you have, but its also an AoE, so you could have lower resists, and still get hit by this for massive amounts.

Hrothgars, Plague carrier, and dark convergence or whatever its called are all broken. Hrothgars is actually less broken than dark convergence, that set is super cheese, but it still could use a nerf. Its got an amazingly easy proc condition and scaling with target armor makes no sense.

Well these are the same people who added 5% martial damage penalty to the the light armor, essentially removing 25% of the pitiful armor rating you get from light.

Tommy_The_Gun

No, not balanced

No, but it is still more balanced than Dark Convergence...

ResidentContrarian

Still have yet to have that set kill me even once. I must be embraced by Fortuna or something...

jaws343

Yes, balanced

Against a lower armored target, light armor user or medium armor user, in a 1v1, it's going to add a small amount of burst damage, if they aren't wearing a resistance based defensive set. It will be useful, but more of a coin flip for running it or running a second set to boost the damage of all other skills.

Against heavy armor users and those running resistance boosting defensive sets, it's going to be quite good. But it will definitely work far better against multiple opponents than it will in 1v1 situations.

Looking forward to trying it out, and I have a few build ideas in mind, but I doubt it is really going to be too much of a problem. I think the plaque set is going to be far worse.

geonsocal

Yes, balanced

I hope it works with siege

Jameson18

No, not balanced

jaws343 wrote: »

Against a lower armored target, light armor user or medium armor user, in a 1v1, it's going to add a small amount of burst damage, if they aren't wearing a resistance based defensive set. It will be useful, but more of a coin flip for running it or running a second set to boost the damage of all other skills.

Against heavy armor users and those running resistance boosting defensive sets, it's going to be quite good. But it will definitely work far better against multiple opponents than it will in 1v1 situations.

Looking forward to trying it out, and I have a few build ideas in mind, but I doubt it is really going to be too much of a problem. I think the plaque set is going to be far worse.

The problem is; I'm going to target the high armor opponent in the middle of all of the low armor opponents. Thus getting me greater damage on said low armor opponents. Its something akin to being near squishies that cause you to take a bunch of VD procs. But in this case, its every 7 seconds and from multiple sources.

Not counting being coupled with other sets. Especially the other new ones.

jaws343

Yes, balanced

Jameson18 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Against a lower armored target, light armor user or medium armor user, in a 1v1, it's going to add a small amount of burst damage, if they aren't wearing a resistance based defensive set. It will be useful, but more of a coin flip for running it or running a second set to boost the damage of all other skills.

Against heavy armor users and those running resistance boosting defensive sets, it's going to be quite good. But it will definitely work far better against multiple opponents than it will in 1v1 situations.

Looking forward to trying it out, and I have a few build ideas in mind, but I doubt it is really going to be too much of a problem. I think the plaque set is going to be far worse.

The problem is; I'm going to target the high armor opponent in the middle of all of the low armor opponents. Thus getting me greater damage on said low armor opponents. Its something akin to being near squishies that cause you to take a bunch of VD procs. But in this case, its every 7 seconds and from multiple sources.

Not counting being coupled with other sets. Especially the other new ones.

It can only proc once every 7 seconds. So it won't be multiple sources. It will proc, everyone will take damage nearby, and that will be it for 7 seconds. The counterplay would be to spread out. Which was the intention of introducing the set. Forcing groups of people apart more.

And you really are just guessing at the resistance of your target. You can make decent guesses for sure, but it's still a guess. So it's still rather uncontrolled in how much the proc will be. Bringing up VD, I see this set as really no different. Just the inverse, and no damage scaling by # of opponents. It will be useful, I don't think it will be overpowered. And it's AOE effect can be countered by not stacking. And useful is good imo. If it weren't useful, it would be pointless.

taugrim

No, not balanced

jaws343 wrote: »

It can only proc once every 7 seconds. So it won't be multiple sources. It will proc, everyone will take damage nearby, and that will be it for 7 seconds. The counterplay would be to spread out.

Spread out, huh? 🤣🤣🤣

Heaven forbid we do any of the following things that are 100% team-oriented outcomes:
* Contest nodes or objectives (e.g. flag carriers) in BGs, Cyro, or Imp City
* Stay near each other to benefit from friendly AOE and healing
* As a melee build, focus fire the same target, e.g. an enemy healer
* As a melee build, peel an enemy beating on our healer or a friendly in trouble

Let me give a realistic PVP example:
* Target has 30k armor
* HC does 26% of (30k phys + 30k spell) = 26% x (60k) = 15.6k
* With Battle Spirit, that's 50% of 15.6k = 7.8k

So it's 7.8k 8m AOE around a 30k armor target. Up to every 7 seconds.

Because it scales linearly, even for a 20k armor target, that's still 5.2k 8m AOE.

Notably, it doesn't scale based on the attacker's stats. You could be a 40k tank running this set and deal meaningful burst AOE damage. Wasn't this what people hated the most about proc sets before they were balanced?

Keep in mind while this is a heavy armor set (and why does a heavy armor set do passive, scaling AOE damage not based on the attacker's stats?), you can equip the jewelry and weapons slots, so this can work for any build.

To me, arguing that this set is remotely balanced is as idiotic as claiming pre-nerf Crimson Twilight was balanced. They both scale too well and proc too frequently and too easily.

Based on what people are writing, people are theorycrafting not talking from actual experience.

People in my PVP guild (Adastra, PC/NA) have been talking about this set nonstop. It's grossly OP. It is known. If you want evidence, look at the prices for this set on the GTs — they're through the roof for epic jewelry (lowest price right now is 750k).

geonsocal

Yes, balanced

the argument really isn't about: "balance" but more so: is it profitable...

I'm excited for these new zerg buster sets - but, I'm primarily a solo random potato running around in cyrodiil...there it is...

better question maybe - are these sets fair to everyone's preferred gameplay - hecks no...

I've spent enough time in battlegrounds to understand the issue (although to be honest I have been on two person and solo teams in battlegrounds ) with these "zerg buster" sets...

for cyrodiil and maybe even more so imperial city - these sets are one of the better additions for those 2 zones in a long while...the lancers are cool too...

not everyone can 1 v X so easily, I understand the basics of it, but, really hard to execute...for my solo playstyle these sets can be helpful in those two zones when I'm in an outnumbered situation...

when you play "off hours" on certain alliances/platforms/servers - you can find yourself doing a lot of keep defense being greatly outnumbered...

basically, there needs to be different battle spirit rule sets for different "zones"...

Jameson18

No, not balanced

jaws343 wrote: »

It can only proc once every 7 seconds. So it won't be multiple sources. It will proc, everyone will take damage nearby, and that will be it for 7 seconds. The counterplay would be to spread out. Which was the intention of introducing the set. Forcing groups of people apart more.

And you really are just guessing at the resistance of your target. You can make decent guesses for sure, but it's still a guess. So it's still rather uncontrolled in how much the proc will be. Bringing up VD, I see this set as really no different. Just the inverse, and no damage scaling by # of opponents. It will be useful, I don't think it will be overpowered. And it's AOE effect can be countered by not stacking. And useful is good imo. If it weren't useful, it would be pointless.

Won't be multiple sources? So only one person will be wearing this set at any given point in time? Not every other guy or gal and their neighbor's dog?

Spread out? Once Dark Convergence and Rush of Agony (especially) are in circulation and more widely used?

Not trying to be snippy. Just stating the obvious. We all know how these things will trend.

Viper? Sloads? Crimson? (I'm sure there's more...) Just saying. History tends to repeat. People are people, and every website is going to be telling every Tom, ***, Harry, Jane, and Karen, that this "meta build" from google is the way to go.

jaws343

Yes, balanced

Jameson18 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

It can only proc once every 7 seconds. So it won't be multiple sources. It will proc, everyone will take damage nearby, and that will be it for 7 seconds. The counterplay would be to spread out. Which was the intention of introducing the set. Forcing groups of people apart more.

And you really are just guessing at the resistance of your target. You can make decent guesses for sure, but it's still a guess. So it's still rather uncontrolled in how much the proc will be. Bringing up VD, I see this set as really no different. Just the inverse, and no damage scaling by # of opponents. It will be useful, I don't think it will be overpowered. And it's AOE effect can be countered by not stacking. And useful is good imo. If it weren't useful, it would be pointless.

Won't be multiple sources? So only one person will be wearing this set at any given point in time? Not every other guy or gal and their neighbor's dog?

Spread out? Once Dark Convergence and Rush of Agony (especially) are in circulation and more widely used?

Not trying to be snippy. Just stating the obvious. We all know how these things will trend.

Viper? Sloads? Crimson? (I'm sure there's more...) Just saying. History tends to repeat. People are people, and every website is going to be telling every Tom, ***, Harry, Jane, and Karen, that this "meta build" from google is the way to go.

Sets shouldn't be balanced around whether other players can also wear them. When I say won't be multiple sources I mean it will only proc once for a user every 7 seconds. If 100 people are wearing the set, it's not really relevant. I really only mentioned this because it seemed like someone in another thread was under the impression that someone could streak into a group of people, stun 5 of them, and proc the set 5 times. Which is not possible due to the cooldown. So it seemed important to mention here regarding a post mentioning multiple sources of the damage.

But also, they would need to make sure they are stunning different targets in order to proc this multiple times, since it cannot proc on opponents with CC immunity. And even if they are doing that every 7 seconds, they could be doing it much easier with other sets where they could more accurately control the amount of damage the set will do and focus target the same enemies with the same proc.

And same goes for Dark Convergence and Rush of Agony. They are sets meant to punish players for stacking. So yeah, spread out. If you are close enough for either of those sets to pull you into their effects, then you are not spreading out.

SkaraMinoc

Yes, balanced

taugrim wrote: »

Notably, it doesn't scale based on the attacker's stats

The damage scales with spell penetration.

Fhritz

Yes, balanced

Honestly, it's not a real problem compared to the other two set, I think the AoE is maybe too much tho. i think this set need to be single target damage, and should do 25% of the sum of the highest resistance stat plus the health value (For better scaling against tank).

But please, if anything change, just keep the visual of this set !

Jameson18

No, not balanced

jaws343 wrote: »

Sets shouldn't be balanced around whether other players can also wear them. When I say won't be multiple sources I mean it will only proc once for a user every 7 seconds. If 100 people are wearing the set, it's not really relevant. I really only mentioned this because it seemed like someone in another thread was under the impression that someone could streak into a group of people, stun 5 of them, and proc the set 5 times. Which is not possible due to the cooldown. So it seemed important to mention here regarding a post mentioning multiple sources of the damage.

But also, they would need to make sure they are stunning different targets in order to proc this multiple times, since it cannot proc on opponents with CC immunity. And even if they are doing that every 7 seconds, they could be doing it much easier with other sets where they could more accurately control the amount of damage the set will do and focus target the same enemies with the same proc.

And same goes for Dark Convergence and Rush of Agony. They are sets meant to punish players for stacking. So yeah, spread out. If you are close enough for either of those sets to pull you into their effects, then you are not spreading out.

Fair enough on that - I did see that other thread as well.

A reminder though - Crowd Control Immunity does not just "happen" nor always work as intended. Especially in Cyrodiil.

Raeyleigh

No, not balanced

Thank you Zenimax for another proc meta. Everyone who read the patchnotes knew this set is op, everyone on the pts knew this set is op, noise was made but ignored as always.

This monstrosity is too good to not run it, no matter the environment, class or build. Give it a weeks or two and this will be worn by literally everyone and their mothers.

It deals *** amounts of aoe burst damage, is as easy and perfectly timed to proc as it gets, and has literally no counterplay.

Just by the way, there is almost never balance hotfixes and it took them 3 patches to nerf procs last time around, overdue nerf for vate 2h still pending.
Thats the precedent.

Vevvev

The title of this thread suddenly made me think of the Spiffing Britt.

"Hrothgar’s Chill is a perfectly balanced set with no exploits."

Amerises

Yes, balanced

It seems like people just didn't want their PvP messed with. Look, I have gold jewels weapons and armor on my main pvp'r, stamplar. They nerfed unleased, and I'd say a stsmplar is not particularly elite when fighting equally skilled and geared players ... I'm not happy that I have to change my gear. And guess what, these sets shake things up so much, we ALL have to rethink how we're going to counter these. I'm happy not everyone will be running the same build. These help make its a rock paper scissors rather than rock paper nuke.

TL;DR It's meta against our current setups. If they leave it, I give it 2 months and people will spec out of it and we will have better counters.

TimeDazzler

No, not balanced

Vevvev wrote: »

The title of this thread suddenly made me think of the Spiffing Britt.

"Hrothgar’s Chill is a perfectly balanced set with no exploits."

It's clickbait, I voted no lol

neferpitou73

No, not balanced

What ZOS needed to do was create a steeper tradeoff between damage and survivability. Instead they just added another monster proc set like people were complaining about.

ResidentContrarian

So now things are unbalanced when a BG group of tanks or a ball group of tanks and purge spammers has something to fear?

The set is ultimately a result of a large amount of the players on the forums posting noise to drown out actual suggestions to balance tankiness, balance purge, and balance the game overall.

The sets are only effective vs. players they are intended to be effective against, and that is a problem?

No matter how many posts get posted complaining about them, you can't exactly say the set is broken or overperforming when what and who it targets itself is grossly overperfoming and crutching on broken mechanics. That's simply too hypocritical.

Also to the guy talking about sitting on a BG flag, last I checked you can be a decent distance from the flag and still flip it. So far, hasn't been an issue for me and I play in the upper BGs.

There is the counter of always killing your enemies -- something that should be easy for a "group" of players assuming they aren't all tank builds.

AdamLAD

No, not balanced

Imagine one set completely mitigating your entire tank build. Not only that. Its a proc. Well done zos. Making the game more and more thumbless. How boring

colossalvoids

Intentionally unbalanced I'd say and I actually salute their baby step. It's 100% will be adjusted though as other ones they've added to be more about groups that are 4-5+ but that might be a start of adding some sets that are not just decon material but a certain "problem solver".

Fhritz

Yes, balanced

Amerises wrote: »

It seems like people just didn't want their PvP messed with. Look, I have gold jewels weapons and armor on my main pvp'r, stamplar. They nerfed unleased, and I'd say a stsmplar is not particularly elite when fighting equally skilled and geared players ... I'm not happy that I have to change my gear. And guess what, these sets shake things up so much, we ALL have to rethink how we're going to counter these. I'm happy not everyone will be running the same build. These help make its a rock paper scissors rather than rock paper nuke.

TL;DR It's meta against our current setups. If they leave it, I give it 2 months and people will spec out of it and we will have better counters.

100% agree. Improvise, adapt, overcome !