My biggest Issue with the game - How the lack of progression affected my experience

xAarionx

SilverBride wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

Also from all these contents, only Trials are Really something That you Can't do without a group. Even veteran dungeaon are soloable if you are good enough.

I'm not good enough. I can only solo a few of the easiest normal dungeons and I bet I'm not alone.

And still you can team up with random strangers without exchanging a single Hi, do the dungeon and go straight to do youir thing without any socialization, so, basicly, a solo with benefits...

xAarionx wrote: »

And in the end, you see the results, they Fail to excel in both, as the downfall of the genre shows.

What downfall?

https://medium.com/@ywang419/rise-and-fall-of-a-genre-mmorpg-de5a646284cc
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/arsebb/why_mmos_are_dying/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313590215_The_Decline_of_MMOs

It's clear to common media that MMO genre is Dying, and many people already believe that the genre will never recover it's former glory
It's also Obvious from the perpective of anyone who played the golden age of MMO: Tibia, ragnarock, Mu Online etc, The Genre is pretty much Dead.

(Wich makes me really sad...)

CompM4s

I think the game has plenty of progression.

Start the game and progress through level 50. Then progress through cp ranks. When you finally have enough cp to move on from normal dungeons/ content. Then you can start progress ming through veteran dungeons. After most normal vet dungeons you can hit vet dlc dungeons, not to mention vet arenas, both solo and team. If that still is not enough, the no death hard modes are quite difficult, but are there for more skilled players. Still haven't hit all the progression it takes for trials, especially vet, and more so if you are trying for the specific achievements.

Thats just pve. Pvp has its own progress of ranking up, as well as learning how to fight other players. Battlegrounds, ball grouping, solo, duels, even people that enjoy large scale fights and sieging have to progress through the map to win a campaign.

Literally so many flavors of progression in this game, so almost anyone can find what they want.

People even progress through RP guilds that build there own stories, Or housing guilds that build and hold competitions on themed based homes.

SilverBride

xAarionx wrote: »

And still you can team up with random strangers without exchanging a single Hi, do the dungeon and go straight to do youir thing without any socialization, so, basicly, a solo with benefits...

I see nothing wrong with that. I don't want to become friends with every player I ever find myself grouped with. I don't want to chit chat with a group of strangers through every pug dungeon I run. Even when friends group up for dungeons they rarely talk through the whole run.

As far as the articles you linked, they are opinions, not fact.

The bottom line is we all enjoy different aspects of ESO and MMOs in general. There is no right or wrong playstyle, so let's just accept our differences and have fun.

xAarionx

SilverBride wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

And still you can team up with random strangers without exchanging a single Hi, do the dungeon and go straight to do youir thing without any socialization, so, basicly, a solo with benefits...

I see nothing wrong with that. I don't want to become friends with every player I ever find myself grouped with. I don't want to chit chat with a group of strangers through every pug dungeon I run. Even when friends group up for dungeons they rarely talk through the whole run.

As far as the articles you linked, they are opinions, not fact.

The bottom line is we all enjoy different aspects of ESO and MMOs in general. There is no right or wrong playstyle, so let's just accept our differences and have fun.

Really? you're calling a resarch analysis of the subject and the common observation of the current start of the genre by overall gamers a opinion?
Talk about not wanting to be wrong...
Clearly it's useless to discuss anymore

You may even Call the causes of the downfall as an opinion, but the current state of popularity of the genre among the gaming comunity is not, it's a fact.

Vhozek

Achievement oriented players don't play this game to begin with. There's not much to achieve in my opinion. It holds your hand the entire way until you reach PvP where things change beacuse.. well.. it's PvP. It's a very simple MMO with a TES skin designed to chill in after One Tamriel. What's funny is that the player peak was extremely low on launch and they based their decision to make the game braindead around those low number of players. One Tamriel served as a "relaunch" of the game which they advertised well and brought in way more players, not necessarily because it wasn't hard anymore but maybe because they *** up with advertising the initial launch. New World is a good example since the mobs there are pretty difficult in comparison yet nobody's crying about it and their numbers are good which leads me to believe it wasn't the difficulty. I can't imagine what else was made much easier due to feedback from these low number of players at launch and what else they have released to be just as bad if they decided to maintain that mentality. It's just not fair for players actually trying to play an MMO and not just enabling god mode (essentially) to know what the story is like as you see in meme articles about fragile game journalists.

xAarionx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_2ttuyE1Rg&ab_channel=TheLazyPeon

I Believe this video touch the subject quite proficiently, and, without Knowing, taps the problem of progression that I'v been talking about

For the sake of being safe and try to please everyone, MMOs are really losing their Idendity as a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game.
The Idea behind the gender is have you team up with thousands of people to do some quests, explore the world, beating dungeons trials, go PVP etc, thats what people looking to play MMOs will look after, I'll be honest, if you want to play solo, that's not your gender, by basic definition.

And, although I made my Point about leveling, another thing that affects the player sense of progression is how much he sees his choices impact on the overall state of the game. TESO was on he Right way with that whith Cyrodil, If not for 3 main factors:
1 - The PVP campaing has no effect on the state of the world, making fighting on cyrodill utterlly meaningless.
2 - The rewards for cyrodill are not worth the Trouble of playing the campaing for a entire month. - You had on month fighting with all your habilities to recive nothing really worthy of all effort, one more reason to feel lack of progression.
3 - Playing on Cyrodil can be a hellish and utterly annoying experience due the lag and connection problems of the map...

And there's also how little we see actions really affect the gameplay of overall people on the PVE Maps. Itr could have explored a lot with that, with gruop quests that actually change mobs and the enviromet of the game, block or give access to some exclusive kind of mobs and loot. That would give live to the world.
But every impact your choices have in your game affects only you
So Yeah, I must stand with my statement. TESO is not a MMO, it's a single player game with some online features

Sylvermynx

xAarionx wrote: »

<snipped>
So Yeah, I must stand with my statement. TESO is not a MMO, it's a single player game with some online features

And I for one am completely happy with that. I'd venture to guess I'm not alone - but that's all it is, a guess because a huge percentage of players don't ever bother with the forum, so there's no real info (outside of the few of us who post and have done so for years).

Grandchamp1989

I don't think you're wrong OP

Many people have been saying that for a long time, but got shot down by the mob mentality calling diversing opinions "elitist".

There is very little in terms of progression in the game, and even fewer way to tell if you're improving as a player.

There's no build in DPS meter, you can't see your uptimes, unless you play on PC and use 3rd party addons.
90% of the game is near indentical in terms of difficulty (very easy) and the last 10% spike the difficulty up to very hard difficulty, to the point where you have to read third party guides or wipe constantly.

I have not played many games that goes from easy to very hard, without a way for players to navigate.

Some normal DLC dungeons are harder than some vet dungeons, like how?
some zones you complete quests and meet NPCs you were supposed to build a relation with in another zone, but the game doesn't tell you?

Yes its a sandbox game and very grassroot at its core.. But to me it seems like it's so up to a fault.
It is not fun for the people who do the 90% of the easy content, and want to progress into the unforgiven 10%
And it's not fun being in the 10% group and have 90% of the content being so easy, to the point of boredom.

So yeah OP.. I agree. The game could use better progression, better tutorial, more levels to navigate and watch your progression.

kargen27

xAarionx wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

And still you can team up with random strangers without exchanging a single Hi, do the dungeon and go straight to do youir thing without any socialization, so, basicly, a solo with benefits...

I see nothing wrong with that. I don't want to become friends with every player I ever find myself grouped with. I don't want to chit chat with a group of strangers through every pug dungeon I run. Even when friends group up for dungeons they rarely talk through the whole run.

As far as the articles you linked, they are opinions, not fact.

The bottom line is we all enjoy different aspects of ESO and MMOs in general. There is no right or wrong playstyle, so let's just accept our differences and have fun.

Really? you're calling a resarch analysis of the subject and the common observation of the current start of the genre by overall gamers a opinion?
Talk about not wanting to be wrong...
Clearly it's useless to discuss anymore

You may even Call the causes of the downfall as an opinion, but the current state of popularity of the genre among the gaming comunity is not, it's a fact.

One of your articles was from 2016 and its predictions turned out to be wrong. The other two are just opinion pieces and one of those says ESO would be one of the exceptions when it comes to failing. MMOs have increased in popularity every year since 2017. A big part of this is more females are playing now than in the past.

The last video you posted the host is looking for a game that has dynamic world events that are affected by player actions. Those games do exist but they are not near as popular as Guild Wars, ESO and other similar titles. The host not being able to find a game suitable for his needs is no indication of the popularity of other types of MMOs currently available. It just means his particular demographic isn't being catered to by current games. He is generalizing on the entire genre instead of focusing on the specific aspect in a game he is wanting.

PvP could be better for sure. There are some obvious performance issues and Imperial City has become kind of stale. That needs to be addressed. The game doesn't need any world shattering events that bring all the players together. In fact those kind of events may well chase away some of ESO's most loyal players. The short of it is ESO is doing fine. It is retaining existing players and drawing in new players.

According to ResearchAndMarkets.com the MMORPG gaming market is expected to grow at a CAGR of about 9.5% during the forecast period of 2020-2025.

SilverBride

xAarionx wrote: »

For the sake of being safe and try to please everyone, MMOs are really losing their Idendity as a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game.
The Idea behind the gender is have you team up with thousands of people to do some quests, explore the world, beating dungeons trials, go PVP etc, thats what people looking to play MMOs will look after, I'll be honest, if you want to play solo, that's not your gender, by basic definition.

If a lot of players can be logged on at the same time, it is a MMO. The fact that they may not be grouping for everything does not change that fact.

I've been playing MMOs for a couple of decades now, and in every single one I've been able to play solo as well as in a group. I used to spend a lot of time in dungeons and raids but the community became too toxic for my taste, and in more than one game. It's a universal problem that drove me away from group content, so in my opinion the toxicity is a big cause of players not wanting to group. But it's not the only reason. A lot of players just enjoy having some relaxing me time, and there is nothing wrong with that.

MMOs are the genre for me, because there is so much more to them than just groups, and it's my choice what or how I play.

Iccotak

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

It is not fun for the people who do the 90% of the easy content, and want to progress into the unforgiven 10%

And it's not fun being in the 10% group and have 90% of the content being so easy, to the point of boredom.

This is exactly my problem with the game right now.

There is near zero gray area in the game play and no real choice. Only very easy Story or very hard endgame.

———————————————————

Also I have to say at this point; I am totally confused why anyone is arguing against a separate harder instance of overland. After all this time.

Because there’s no “keeping the players together“ if everybody just plays alone anyway.

What’s the point of saying that “we cannot separate the player base” then if they don’t even play together?

Is the goal to have everyone play alone ...together?

At that point I think I can conclusively say that there is no way that a separate harder instance would really affect those opposing if the majority of these people are just playing by themselves anyway and aren’t looking for any reason to play with others.

If you’re just playing by yourself 95% of the time, or more, then a separate overland instance isn’t going to affect you.

You would still get to play your way and we would get to play our way.

kargen27

SilverBride wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

For the sake of being safe and try to please everyone, MMOs are really losing their Idendity as a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game.
The Idea behind the gender is have you team up with thousands of people to do some quests, explore the world, beating dungeons trials, go PVP etc, thats what people looking to play MMOs will look after, I'll be honest, if you want to play solo, that's not your gender, by basic definition.

If a lot of players can be logged on at the same time, it is a MMO. The fact that they may not be grouping for everything does not change that fact.

I've been playing MMOs for a couple of decades now, and in every single one I've been able to play solo as well as in a group. I used to spend a lot of time in dungeons and raids but the community became too toxic for my taste, and in more than one game. It's a universal problem that drove me away from group content, so in my opinion the toxicity is a big cause of players not wanting to group. But it's not the only reason. A lot of players just enjoy having some relaxing me time, and there is nothing wrong with that.

MMOs are the genre for me, because there is so much more to them than just groups, and it's my choice what or how I play.

Certainly feels like an MMO when I want to kill a few bosses in Public Dungeons. It is rare I am alone.

We work together when we see a dragon and we compete against each other when we see a Columbine 10 meters away. Either way we are interacting and that is the basics of an MMO.

xAarionx

Sylvermynx wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

<snipped>
So Yeah, I must stand with my statement. TESO is not a MMO, it's a single player game with some online features

And I for one am completely happy with that. I'd venture to guess I'm not alone - but that's all it is, a guess because a huge percentage of players don't ever bother with the forum, so there's no real info (outside of the few of us who post and have done so for years).

and that actually consolidade my argument
Most people playing here does not want to really play mmo, becouse they don 't want the core feature that makes MMOs unique and detach them from other genres. becouse everything else, other genres offers in a much better way

Want a good story? A solo RPG will give it better than any MMO
Want a good team Battle? Mobas and Battle Royalles will give better than any MMO
Want a good survival and building experience? Any survival/ simulation game will give it to you better than any MMO

Becouse they specialize exactly on that

Take away the Massive Multiplayer, what makes any MMO special?

kargen27 wrote: »

[
<snip>
According to ResearchAndMarkets.com the MMORPG gaming market is expected to grow at a CAGR of about 9.5% during the forecast period of 2020-2025.

Actually, no, what the guy is looking for is what actual MMO players are looking for in an MMO, and sadly they don't find. about the expected marked growth, is mostly due the launch of new world and other Titles that gamers have a lot of expectations of bringing back the core experience of an MMO. And I hope it does

I stand skeptical about the increase of popularity, because every single gaming channel and article that touches the subject all talks how the genre does not evolved since oldscholl days, and how the're not ofering that Unique experience exclusive for the genre, and how is not doing so well.

I stand here with the position, seeing the arguments, that people here actually don't like and don't want to play an MMORPG, they want something else

Sylvermynx

What makes MMOs special for me is the fact that unlike SPMR games, they are not static. Sure Skyrim has a bajillion player quest mods, but eventually you run out of stuff to play. ESO isn't static - it gets added content on a regular basis, just as the other MMOs I played did (and in fact, ESO has a much better faster schedule for that added content than the others did when I played, or do now). The game world evolves. THAT is what an MMO is to me.

I don't do group content - the only connection I have available is satellite, and believe me, I've heard every bit of toxic there is when trying to do group content on satellite. So I'm not accepting that sort of denigration ever again - AND I am not moving into a city just to have "real broadband" so I can do group content with toxic people in any case.

I played my first MMO nearly 20 years ago. I'm old (74 before the end of the year) and I have ZERO interest in the sort of things you seem to think are important to an MMO. I hope you find one that works for you, since this one obviously doesn't.

xAarionx

Sylvermynx wrote: »

What makes MMOs special for me is the fact that unlike SPMR games, they are not static. Sure Skyrim has a bajillion player quest mods, but eventually you run out of stuff to play. ESO isn't static - it gets added content on a regular basis, just as the other MMOs I played did (and in fact, ESO has a much better faster schedule for that added content than the others did when I played, or do now). The game world evolves. THAT is what an MMO is to me.

I don't do group content - the only connection I have available is satellite, and believe me, I've heard every bit of toxic there is when trying to do group content on satellite. So I'm not accepting that sort of denigration ever again - AND I am not moving into a city just to have "real broadband" so I can do group content with toxic people in any case.

I played my first MMO nearly 20 years ago. I'm old (74 before the end of the year) and I have ZERO interest in the sort of things you seem to think are important to an MMO. I hope you find one that works for you, since this one obviously doesn't.

many modern Single Player game are going this way with expansion Packs that go over and over again keeping a game in the market for decades... so no, its not unique no mmos, neither what defines them.

Sylvermynx

xAarionx wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

What makes MMOs special for me is the fact that unlike SPMR games, they are not static. Sure Skyrim has a bajillion player quest mods, but eventually you run out of stuff to play. ESO isn't static - it gets added content on a regular basis, just as the other MMOs I played did (and in fact, ESO has a much better faster schedule for that added content than the others did when I played, or do now). The game world evolves. THAT is what an MMO is to me.

I don't do group content - the only connection I have available is satellite, and believe me, I've heard every bit of toxic there is when trying to do group content on satellite. So I'm not accepting that sort of denigration ever again - AND I am not moving into a city just to have "real broadband" so I can do group content with toxic people in any case.

I played my first MMO nearly 20 years ago. I'm old (74 before the end of the year) and I have ZERO interest in the sort of things you seem to think are important to an MMO. I hope you find one that works for you, since this one obviously doesn't.

many modern Single Player game are going this way with expansion Packs that go over and over again keeping a game in the market for decades... so no, its not unique no mmos, neither what defines them.

I don't play anything but fantasy games. And TES is the only franchise I really love. I'm not leaving ESO because some guy i don't know thinks it's his prerogative to decide how I play a game I pay a sub for. And buy crowns for.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all!

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that Flaming is a violation of the Community Guidelines and is stated as follows:

• Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

VaranisArano

xAarionx wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

<snipped>
So Yeah, I must stand with my statement. TESO is not a MMO, it's a single player game with some online features

And I for one am completely happy with that. I'd venture to guess I'm not alone - but that's all it is, a guess because a huge percentage of players don't ever bother with the forum, so there's no real info (outside of the few of us who post and have done so for years).

I stand here with the position, seeing the arguments, that people here actually don't like and don't want to play an MMORPG, they want something else

I'm perfectly happy playing ESO, whether or not it meets your definition of an MMORPG or not.

I'll repeat that if ESO has moved away from its original vision, it has done so in response to the feedback from its playerbase. The Devs are not designing an ideal modern MMO according to a strict definition of the genre. They are designing a product to be sold to their current playerbase and to attract new players who want this sort of experience that blends the singleplayer TES games with features of the MMO genre. And yes, since one cannot please both hardcore MMO fans and hardcore singleplayer fans, ZOS has to compromise.

Unless there is a substantial number of players asking for ESO to swing back towards your definition of an MMORPG - a substantial number greater than the players who like the status quo, that is - then it's unlikely to happen. I say the same thing to the hardcore singleplayer fans when they complain about the MMO features ESO has.

Paulytnz

xAarionx wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

Also from all these contents, only Trials are Really something That you Can't do without a group. Even veteran dungeaon are soloable if you are good enough.

I'm not good enough. I can only solo a few of the easiest normal dungeons and I bet I'm not alone.

And still you can team up with random strangers without exchanging a single Hi, do the dungeon and go straight to do youir thing without any socialization, so, basicly, a solo with benefits...

xAarionx wrote: »

And in the end, you see the results, they Fail to excel in both, as the downfall of the genre shows.

What downfall?

https://medium.com/@ywang419/rise-and-fall-of-a-genre-mmorpg-de5a646284cc
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/arsebb/why_mmos_are_dying/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313590215_The_Decline_of_MMOs

It's clear to common media that MMO genre is Dying, and many people already believe that the genre will never recover it's former glory
It's also Obvious from the perpective of anyone who played the golden age of MMO: Tibia, ragnarock, Mu Online etc, The Genre is pretty much Dead.

(Wich makes me really sad...)

Ummm no. I wonder how long you have been playing MMO's tbh. I started way back in Oct 2001 when I found and started playing Runescape. That was before WoW and most others came along. Guess what? 20 years later and that game is still alive and running. Heck my account turns 20 years old there this Oct.

I can't see the Genre is dying.

ESO is not that different from Runescape or many other MMO's in fact (from my experience) when it comes to the amount of content % wise that is aimed at "group play". MMO does not mean you should or HAVE to spend every second of your play time playing with others. It also does not mean that such people should go and play a single player game either. The MMO feature is still there when I sell my goods to other players via the Guild Traders and if I happen to come along someone fighting something who needs help to which I will then jump in and insert myself into group play for a few seconds to help said person.

I get it, you want more group content and that is reasonable to ask for. Just don't try and force your opinion on what "MMO" should mean. That will only turn people away from the actual discussion and more than likely take you off course.

Tannus15

Iccotak wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

It is not fun for the people who do the 90% of the easy content, and want to progress into the unforgiven 10%

And it's not fun being in the 10% group and have 90% of the content being so easy, to the point of boredom.

This is exactly my problem with the game right now.

There is near zero gray area in the game play and no real choice. Only very easy Story or very hard endgame.

———————————————————

Also I have to say at this point; I am totally confused why anyone is arguing against a separate harder instance of overland. After all this time.

Because there’s no “keeping the players together“ if everybody just plays alone anyway.

What’s the point of saying that “we cannot separate the player base” then if they don’t even play together?

Is the goal to have everyone play alone ...together?

At that point I think I can conclusively say that there is no way that a separate harder instance would really affect those opposing if the majority of these people are just playing by themselves anyway and aren’t looking for any reason to play with others.

If you’re just playing by yourself 95% of the time, or more, then a separate overland instance isn’t going to affect you.

You would still get to play your way and we would get to play our way.

I think the 90% easy content is being addressed slowly, but not in the way you expect.

The biggest problem with ESO stems from how badly you get punished for running terrible builds and there is no indication of what is good or bad. Tanks in PUG's complain all the time about how they are doing 50% of the group dps, which on a proper tank setup is what, between 2k and 10k dps. This means that 2 "dps" are doing less than 5k dps each.
That takes real skill. If you put medium armour hundings rage on a stam build and 64 attributes in stam you'll do more dps than that just light attacking.
the proc's on most proc sets do 2k to 4k dps alone. The only way you can get numbers that low is if you're balancing your attributes and using class (mag) skills with a medium armour stam setup.
The really casual crowd actually have no idea how the game works and there is no indication anywhere that you should be stacking all your attributes into 1 stat and using only skills that match that stat and so on. If you don't look things up you will be terrible at this game.

So, why do I say this is being addressed? Firstly you no longer need 5+ of 1 armour type for the strongest bonuses. Secondly on PTS both light and medium armour will buff magicka and stamina skills. I bet over the next few patches we see more and more moves down this path.
I bet they remove the effect of max resource pool on damage skills, exactly how they have for proc sets.
This is so that no matter what gear you wear, if it's damage focused it'll be fine. The "casual" build will do significantly more damage.
THEN you can buff overland.
You can't buff overland and then "fix" the casual build, it has to be done the other way around.

Sylvermynx

Tannus15 wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

It is not fun for the people who do the 90% of the easy content, and want to progress into the unforgiven 10%

And it's not fun being in the 10% group and have 90% of the content being so easy, to the point of boredom.

This is exactly my problem with the game right now.

There is near zero gray area in the game play and no real choice. Only very easy Story or very hard endgame.

———————————————————

Also I have to say at this point; I am totally confused why anyone is arguing against a separate harder instance of overland. After all this time.

Because there’s no “keeping the players together“ if everybody just plays alone anyway.

What’s the point of saying that “we cannot separate the player base” then if they don’t even play together?

Is the goal to have everyone play alone ...together?

At that point I think I can conclusively say that there is no way that a separate harder instance would really affect those opposing if the majority of these people are just playing by themselves anyway and aren’t looking for any reason to play with others.

If you’re just playing by yourself 95% of the time, or more, then a separate overland instance isn’t going to affect you.

You would still get to play your way and we would get to play our way.

I think the 90% easy content is being addressed slowly, but not in the way you expect.

The biggest problem with ESO stems from how badly you get punished for running terrible builds and there is no indication of what is good or bad. Tanks in PUG's complain all the time about how they are doing 50% of the group dps, which on a proper tank setup is what, between 2k and 10k dps. This means that 2 "dps" are doing less than 5k dps each.
That takes real skill. If you put medium armour hundings rage on a stam build and 64 attributes in stam you'll do more dps than that just light attacking.
the proc's on most proc sets do 2k to 4k dps alone. The only way you can get numbers that low is if you're balancing your attributes and using class (mag) skills with a medium armour stam setup.
The really casual crowd actually have no idea how the game works and there is no indication anywhere that you should be stacking all your attributes into 1 stat and using only skills that match that stat and so on. If you don't look things up you will be terrible at this game.

So, why do I say this is being addressed? Firstly you no longer need 5+ of 1 armour type for the strongest bonuses. Secondly on PTS both light and medium armour will buff magicka and stamina skills. I bet over the next few patches we see more and more moves down this path.
I bet they remove the effect of max resource pool on damage skills, exactly how they have for proc sets.
This is so that no matter what gear you wear, if it's damage focused it'll be fine. The "casual" build will do significantly more damage.
THEN you can buff overland.
You can't buff overland and then "fix" the casual build, it has to be done the other way around.

Now, THAT is an interesting take. I admit that I have no issue killing stuff on my stamdens (on PC NA, nearly 600CP and the other nearly 700CP). I am running all medium on them, and it's all crafted (because I just don't do group content, so....) but it's not a problem to kill stuff outside of WBs and group content bosses (which is content I don't play anyway because satellite isn't workable for that).

I'll be very interested to see if this actually plays out.

SilverBride

Tannus15 wrote: »

The "casual" build will do significantly more damage.
THEN you can buff overland.
You can't buff overland and then "fix" the casual build, it has to be done the other way around.

If players are doing more damage, then overland is buffed to meet that, what has really been accomplished? We would just be right back where we started. Not that overland needs a buff anyway, because in my opinion it's fine just as it is.

Amottica

I have noticed that anytime RL has taken me away from gaming for a period of time it has taken something to draw me back to the game. Part of this is because playing regularly is very much a habit. Part of is I enjoy real life, being out there instead of inside a box. I do have long-term friends I play with. None of it has to do with the game itself.

I have never found progression real in MMORPGs. It was always short-lived and fairly meaningless. It was always about getting the hardest raiding achievements or ranking on the PvP leaderboards (in games where PvP ranking somewhat meant something), As such, I fail to see the point OP is trying to make.

Gaming has always been about the group you run with no matter if the player is hardcore or casual. For the hardcore, they need to be good enough to help the group reach the hardest achievements and not be drama idiots. For casual players, they need to be people you enjoy running with and whatever.

Today I am more of a casual player as I have struck a good balance between gameplay and RL. I can say I really do not miss playing PvE hardcore raiding like I used to and PvP became fairly boring in most cases (except I still enjoy PvP matches in a different game). And yes, I can still hang as I do get drawn into old groups from time to time in games I played more recently.

kargen27

[/quote]Actually, no, what the guy is looking for is what actual MMO players are looking for in an MMO, and sadly they don't find. about the expected marked growth, is mostly due the launch of new world and other Titles that gamers have a lot of expectations of bringing back the core experience of an MMO. And I hope it does

I stand skeptical about the increase of popularity, because every single gaming channel and article that touches the subject all talks how the genre does not evolved since oldscholl days, and how the're not ofering that Unique experience exclusive for the genre, and how is not doing so well.

I stand here with the position, seeing the arguments, that people here actually don't like and don't want to play an MMORPG, they want something else

[/quote]

You are defining an MMO in a very narrow scope that fits the game you want to play. The type of MMO you want is not popular right now thus they are hard to find. They don't do well long term.

This is an MMO. It might not be your MMO but it is an MMO. It is massive. There is a multitude of players. It is online. It doesn't have world events that tie in a large portion of the population and players can solo without ever doing the group content if they wish. All that means is the game appeals to a broad player base. The type of MMO you are describing appeals to a much more narrow player base. That is why they seem to fail sooner than this type of MMO.

People here do like MMOs or more to the point they like this one. That is why they play. They might not like your description of what you think an MMO might be. You are basically describing a survival MMO and for whatever reason those are not attracting the players other types of MMOs attract.

I'm hoping New World does well. It will fill a niche. What it will not do is take a lot of players away from ESO. The playstyle is extremely different.

By the way TheGamer ranks ESO as the 2nd best MMO of all time. PC Gamer says "It took The Elder Scrolls Online over a year to finally find its legs, but now that it has it's quickly become one of the best MMOs on the market. That's in part thanks to the steady stream of excellent premium expansions that have gradually opened up new areas of Tamriel to explore."

Tannus15

SilverBride wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The "casual" build will do significantly more damage.
THEN you can buff overland.
You can't buff overland and then "fix" the casual build, it has to be done the other way around.

If players are doing more damage, then overland is buffed to meet that, what has really been accomplished? We would just be right back where we started. Not that overland needs a buff anyway, because in my opinion it's fine just as it is.

the gap between dungeons / group content and overland is closed somewhat. when people start doing dungeons they won't feel like they are completely rubbish and supports will be happier to pug because when things are bad they won't be as abysmally bad as they are now.

overland is clearly balanced around a certain demographic of the game which makes it too easy to be interesting for other demographics. I'm not talking about the end game people here, i'm just talking about people who build "correctly" by current standards. 64 attributes in 1 resource, medium armour and stam skills or light armour and mag skills. the sets themselves are irrelevant.

we want the game difficulty to stay the same for the first group, while improving the experience for the second group.

SilverBride

Tannus15 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If players are doing more damage, then overland is buffed to meet that, what has really been accomplished? We would just be right back where we started. Not that overland needs a buff anyway, because in my opinion it's fine just as it is.

the gap between dungeons / group content and overland is closed somewhat. when people start doing dungeons they won't feel like they are completely rubbish and supports will be happier to pug because when things are bad they won't be as abysmally bad as they are now.

overland is clearly balanced around a certain demographic of the game which makes it too easy to be interesting for other demographics. I'm not talking about the end game people here, i'm just talking about people who build "correctly" by current standards. 64 attributes in 1 resource, medium armour and stam skills or light armour and mag skills. the sets themselves are irrelevant.

we want the game difficulty to stay the same for the first group, while improving the experience for the second group.

Making a lot of players stronger then buffing overland enemies seems like a lot of trouble when they could just introduce a debuff for the few players who find overland too easy.

Hamboot

xAarionx wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

xAarionx wrote: »

Care to explain to Me how an ONLIne game, should not Focus on Group Content?
"Oh he should focus on all kinds"
And become mediocre in all of them...>

ESO does focus on group content. There is PvP, and World Bosses and Harrowstorms and Dragons in the open world, as well as Normal and Veteran dungeons, trials and arenas. But it also focuses on solo content, such as questing and crafting and housing. And I feel it does both quite well.

Also from all these contents, only Trials are Really something That you Can't do without a group. Even veteran dungeaon are soloable if you are good enough.
Also The Dungeon Finder feature creates the possibility that you just run around, do the dungeon, and be done with It, not as something i would call a real group experience, Becouse it kills the social aspect of it.

MMOs have evolved over the years as their playerbase changed. They strive to appeal to the casual player as well as the hard core end game players, and I think ESO is doing a pretty good job of it.

And in the end, you see the results, they Fail to excel in both, as the downfall of the genre shows.

You can absolutely not solo any dlc dungeon in vet difficulty which make up half of the game's dungeon content, you cannot solo a group Arena especilly brp which is already a pain in the butt in an efficient organized group and I highly doubt vdsa is soloable 99% of pvpers in eso aren't solo players... You could do some of that in cp1.0 but certainly not in cp2.0
I think you are being a bit too hyperbolic here my dude...

Tannus15

SilverBride wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If players are doing more damage, then overland is buffed to meet that, what has really been accomplished? We would just be right back where we started. Not that overland needs a buff anyway, because in my opinion it's fine just as it is.

the gap between dungeons / group content and overland is closed somewhat. when people start doing dungeons they won't feel like they are completely rubbish and supports will be happier to pug because when things are bad they won't be as abysmally bad as they are now.

overland is clearly balanced around a certain demographic of the game which makes it too easy to be interesting for other demographics. I'm not talking about the end game people here, i'm just talking about people who build "correctly" by current standards. 64 attributes in 1 resource, medium armour and stam skills or light armour and mag skills. the sets themselves are irrelevant.

we want the game difficulty to stay the same for the first group, while improving the experience for the second group.

Making a lot of players stronger then buffing overland enemies seems like a lot of trouble when they could just introduce a debuff for the few players who find overland too easy.

but that's the point, their goal is to "bring up the floor". it has been for a long time.
The things i've noticed over the last few updates all work towards this goal, and connecting the dots, once the floor rises, it's probably time to also bring up the lowest tier of content to match.

think of it this way. you've got 4 tiers of content each with their levels of difficulty. If you can buff the easiest tier of players without changing anything about how they play the game then you can merge the lowest tier of content into the next tier making more content enjoyable for more people without nerfing anyone.
it's a win win win.

Everest_Lionheart

SilverBride wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If players are doing more damage, then overland is buffed to meet that, what has really been accomplished? We would just be right back where we started. Not that overland needs a buff anyway, because in my opinion it's fine just as it is.

the gap between dungeons / group content and overland is closed somewhat. when people start doing dungeons they won't feel like they are completely rubbish and supports will be happier to pug because when things are bad they won't be as abysmally bad as they are now.

overland is clearly balanced around a certain demographic of the game which makes it too easy to be interesting for other demographics. I'm not talking about the end game people here, i'm just talking about people who build "correctly" by current standards. 64 attributes in 1 resource, medium armour and stam skills or light armour and mag skills. the sets themselves are irrelevant.

we want the game difficulty to stay the same for the first group, while improving the experience for the second group.

Making a lot of players stronger then buffing overland enemies seems like a lot of trouble when they could just introduce a debuff for the few players who find overland too easy.

Some of us get a little bit more creative running our naked toons through Sunspire. The game is much different when you are using your fists and only class skills to kill dragons. We do allow supports to keep weapons but no sets, but DPS are running around in their undies. The best part is we pug 1-2 players each tying and they have no idea what is going on. That is also half the fun!

SilverBride

Tannus15 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Making a lot of players stronger then buffing overland enemies seems like a lot of trouble when they could just introduce a debuff for the few players who find overland too easy.

but that's the point, their goal is to "bring up the floor". it has been for a long time.
The things i've noticed over the last few updates all work towards this goal, and connecting the dots, once the floor rises, it's probably time to also bring up the lowest tier of content to match.

think of it this way. you've got 4 tiers of content each with their levels of difficulty. If you can buff the easiest tier of players without changing anything about how they play the game then you can merge the lowest tier of content into the next tier making more content enjoyable for more people without nerfing anyone.
it's a win win win.

What about players new to ESO who are still learning about how the game works? Rather than raising their floor it would make more sense to lower the ceiling of the veteran players.