I Think Zos should begin to break from the standard release formula

UglyTriangle

I don't particularly dislike Blackwood. It's alright, but I do agree it would be nice to see something new. The Deadlands portals are a bit underwhelming compared to previous open world group events. It would be cool to see a new zone with focus on PvP or something similar to Craglorn.

Marto

Marto wrote: »

I'd like to see different types of content for Q1 and Q3, not just 4-player dungeons.

There's quite a few possibilities that come to mind...

• 1 Trial
• 1 Arena
• 3 "Mini dungeons"
• 1 small PVP-PVE zone. Yes, I know Imperial City isn't the most popular thing, but they could still experiment, and make the idea work.
• 1 Smaller explorable zone. There's plenty of areas in the map that are seemingly too small to be considered for a Q4 DLC Zone.

Some zones that could fit that description are

• Tenmar Forest (Middle Elsweyr): Including the khajiit holy city of Torval.
• Soulrest (That little triangle of land between Murkmire and Blackwood): One of the largest Argonian cities.
• Druadach Mountains (The strip of land between Western Skyrim and Wrothgar): It contains the Forgotten Vale from the TES V: Dawnguard expansion. We don't know if it's an area mostly influenced by Orsimer, Bretons, or Nords during the time of ESO.
• Sheogorad: (The skull-shaped island north of Vvardenfell) There's not a lot there, other than some dangerous ruins.

Small, dense zones like these could be focused around a lot of verticality and exploration (like Abah's Landing). They could be very heavy on story, without including that many delves, world bosses or regions.

Another option that came to mind...

A 2-player arena. I've always found ESO to be a very good game to play in duos in the overworld, and I think this could be a good way to introduce that sort of gameplay dynamic to the endgame.

A 2-player arena could introduce a lot of interesting choices for your team composition. Healer + Damage dealer? Tank and + Damage dealer? Two all-around characters?

Encounters could also be tailored for it. Two bosses that need to be kept separated, color coded enemies that can only be affected by one player at a time, a boss that teleports one player to face them in a cage while the other has to deal with a swarm of weak enemies, etc.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi All! We want to thank everyone for the amount of feedback posted in this thread! Lots of good stuff in here. We will continue to review everything here and include your feedback in future conversation around update cadence. Continue to share your ideas with us. Thanks, everyone!

Grandchamp1989

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All! We want to thank everyone for the amount of feedback posted in this thread! Lots of good stuff in here. We will continue to review everything here and include your feedback in future conversation around update cadence. Continue to share your ideas with us. Thanks, everyone!

This is so awesome! Shower this man with "awesome's" please.

Parasaurolophus

Many people argue that year-long stories somehow degrade the quality of writing. I disagree with that. First, I see no reason why such a storytelling model should make it boring. Secondly, long stories are better than short stories. Yes, we have to wait a while. However ... DLC`s Drgonhold and Markarth turned out to be really much more interesting than their chapters. Interesting and diverse characters, a lot of interesting lore (Dragon Guard, becoming a dragon priest, reachman lore, dark heart and much more ...) which is not in the chapters. Main quests are also too short. There are 8 quests in total, where the last quest is just an epilogue. I would like to see the main quest for a longer time, say not 8 but 12 quests. Better to do fewer side quests. By the way, about side quests. I really liked the quest lines in Morrowind when one story consisted of several quests. People love to remember Narya and Sun-in-shadows. And I don't understand why already in Summerset ZoS they abandoned this idea.
Well ... The rest has already been said a lot. Return to the idea of ​​adventure zones like Craglorn. But balance this for a solo or two players. Give a choice of difficulty mode. Give more rewards and more incentives.

Sylvermynx

@BrownChicken - I tend to agree at least about the viability of "long stories". But that's because I have some "long stories" of my own still sitting on a back burner (I'm betting I'll never finish Caravan to Kethabey - but my daughter might make something of it - I really just can't do the sort of "interaction" needed for publishing).

Long stories are my meat and bones. I want huge overarching plotlines with mysteries which don't actually have anything much to do with the whole plot....

Hmm. I bet I'm a real minority.

Parasaurolophus

I would also like to add that players have a certain fatigue from constant events. Many begin to think that this is how ZoS artificially keeps the population in the game.

alberichtano

jle30303 wrote: »

Re. the comments about "Oh no, not another Big Bad Of The Year".

My favourite DLC so far, for storyline anyway, has been Orsinium.

No true Big Bad at all, only the vicious internal rivalries of Orcish politics. The "final villains" weren't really BIG, as bads go: they were people, with their own complex motives and reasons that had led them to make the choices they did, which resulted in them being your enemy. They were still strong enemies - quest boss-level - but not, like, dragons or gods or thousand-year-old undeads with all the powers expected from having lived that long. They were *people*.

And I think it made for a far better DLC, and a far better story.

Indeed!

And it actually made so much more interesting. As I think I wrote earlier, beating up gods and devils and undead monsters (that all should, by all right, make minced meat out of you by just a look and a frown) makes everything else look meh. And that is not good. When you have to kill three dragons for a daily, you are making dragons just another monster, rather than the mythical beast they should be.

So yes, more PEOPLE enemies. More intrigue, drama.

alberichtano

BrownChicken wrote: »

I would also like to add that players have a certain fatigue from constant events. Many begin to think that this is how ZoS artificially keeps the population in the game.

"Think"? It is exactly that. No secret or mystery about it. :-P

Nothing wrong with that though, if they don't keep people coming back they'd be out of business real quick like (at least on the ESO-department). ;-)

Wolfshead

1st of all MMORPG have their own same formula but I think the problem is not how the zone is built I think it is "base story" just look at our last expansion it took less than a week to complete and then we have to wait to aug it is way to a long time to wait I know we have covid-19 in world

But what I think ZoS need to do is add more depth to the zone mean more quest that makes us care more about the people and more quest like summerset have honestly I don't care much about there people in blackwood sure idea of zone nice but it loses a lot of it identity for you place you help out but don't really care about those people you help.

Take Orsinium one of the better for there I (personally) care about NPC their problem the are try to build up there city/nation again that was some good world-building

This is just my own opinion

Integral1900

My dream would be a story that unfolds over the course of two or three years consisting of one year or six month blocks, each a self-contained story, but completion of each block of content will then unlock further stages to the same story much like has been done in the yearly format but on a much bigger scale.

This game has the technology to carry out this kind of massive scheme, what it needs to bring it to life is ambition, the desire to build something truly enormous in in scope while retaining the one story and done format that seems to appeal to players other than myself.

The yearly format already uses this on a small scale, what would help would be to increase the scope, have multiple yearly zones completion unlock new layers of story, so someone who has cleared all three would have a whole extra epic tale over the top of what they already experienced.

You could use this to connect previous years of content together, look for commonalities, the staff of chaos for example, so, if they had completed the previous three years content you could then reveal that it was all just a plot by some devious character to secure a series of immensely powerful items in order to fulfil their ambitions. The base game is full of this kind of thing, the grand conspiracy of the dark anchors and everything else is entirely implied, it is almost never actually seen. There are just a few worm cult characters dotted around in dungeons and a few notes here and there, it was still enough to create the threat.

Personally I prefer mortal antagonists to gods, greed, hatred and ambition are more than sufficient motivation. The plot does not have to want to end the world, just to change it in a way that would drastically affect innocent people. They also do not have to have a hard luck story, I have always found that struggle builds empathy, while some of the most evil people in history have come from rich and luxurious backgrounds where they have never needed to develop empathy at all.

katanagirl1

Lots of comments on how Orsinium was the best, and I agree.

Every house was open and you could go inside and there were things to loot and I think it was all without loading screens. There is so much content there it takes a long time to complete. That’s a good thing.

What I see in later releases is fewer buildings that you can actually enter, they are just facades with locks on the doors. Look at Hakoshae in Northern Elsweyr, not a single building you can enter.

Since Greymoor release buildings in cities have their own loading screens. What a disincentive to explore if I have to wait up to a minute to enter and exit each time.

I want to explore these new zones, and that is limited to mostly outdoor only now.

Since there is less to explore the grind factor for getting stuff has gone through the roof to artificially inflate the time spent in zone. This is no way to keep players happy.

I don’t like the year long formula not because of the predictable number of delves and public dungeons and such, I’m fine with that. It’s the fact that players pay for a zone and only get a fraction of it unless they subscribe. The dlc with dungeons? I run those once in a pug and never get the story because I have to click fast and run after the group. Having a huge break in the story just doesn’t seem to work right either. I am not sure what the solution is but putting so much efforts into group dungeons is really wasted on the vast majority of the playerbase, I’m afraid.

Ilsabet

Disclaimer: I haven't touched Blackwood yet, so my feedback is based on the years of Elsweyr and Greymoor compared to the content that preceded the year-long story model.

I always found it interesting that such a big deal was made about the introduction of the year-long story when Elsweyr came out, and that there have been so many complaints about that storytelling formula since then, considering that ESO had already done a very successful multi-part story arc in Morrowind-CWC-Summerset. ZOS has proved that it can do multi-part storytelling, but there are distinct differences between the Daedric Triad arc and the yearly packages that came after.

I think there's something that feels artificial about the stories we're getting now, like it's less about telling a good story in a compelling way and more about packaging the story up into the segments that marketing wants to sell to the people. It tends to make the chapters feel thin, with unsatisfying endings because the bad guy is contractually obligated to get away so he can make more mischief in Q4.

By contrast, the Daedric Triad arc consisted of three distinct zones that told relatively self-contained stories, where we saved the day and it felt like a satisfying accomplishment, and there were hints of a bigger conspiracy that gave us something to look forward to and see how it all came together. Not everything about the overall picture was airtight, but it was enough of a connection to make a convincing overall storyline without feeling like we were being left hanging after part 1 or part 2.

I hesitate to offer criticism that sounds like throwing shade at the writers, because I generally think they're awesome and I want to encourage them to continue being awesome, but Greymoor in particular was not that compelling on the story front. I don't know how much that has to do with the release formula or if it was just kinda an off day, but it felt like a lot of spinning wheels with not a lot of substance. The conflict went from exorbitantly long investigations into an existential threat to countering a cartoonish villain with no real motivation, while the much more interesting and motivated villain flitted around being contractually untouchable until Q4. Fortunately Markarth and the epilogue offered much more of a payoff, and that may be because they were allowed to be more story-dense given the smaller scale.

Speaking of payoff, one thing I would love to see as much as possible (acknowledging the necessary limitations) is real, substantial development of previously-established character relationships and experiences. It's unfortunate that the writers have to be so noncommittal in this area to accommodate less well-traveled players, but the more you can give us to work with the better. Summerset and Markarth are two examples where I felt a lot more invested in the story because it was capitalizing on my investment in characters that I cared about. Particularly with the emphasis on bringing back "fan favorite" characters as selling points, I want to see those characters being used sensitively and effectively rather than making me wonder why they're here at all. I think things have generally been okay in that regard, but there's definitely a danger of them being more window-dressing than fully engaged and essential participants in the story.

In the same vein, I'd love to see some resolution for hanging plot threads from older content, if it's at all possible given that not-everybody's-done-that-yet:

Orsinium:

What's the status of the Orcs within the Covenant after the events of Orsinium? Bazrag said they were going to talk about it, but I guess we're supposed to assume that they chose to maintain the status quo since the Orcs are still in the alliance as far as anybody knows. Does anybody have anything to say about that more definitively?

How does High King Emeric feel about the Vestige killing one of his closest allies, especially if that Vestige was a Hero of the Covenant? How would he react the next time he sees them?

Summerset:

What ever happened with that three-alliance armada that was sailing to Summerset? It seems like kind of a big deal that the alliance leaders came together so readily to address the threat, and a bigger deal for Ayrenn to allow actual military forces near the Altmer homeland when opening the borders to visitors was already such a contentious move. Did they all just turn around and go home and everybody forgot about them after the Crystal Tower stopped exploding?

If Nocturnal was going to get control of reality itself by infusing her essence into the repaired crystal of Transparent Law, does that mean Meridia got the same benefit from having the crystal repaired using a divine relic infused with her vessel's light?

Elsweyr:

So what was the deal with the potential for Mane wackiness when the moons had their unscheduled eclipse?

If you're already planning on doing something with these at some point, great, and if not then maybe throw us a bone.

One thing I do think works well is the treatment of the dungeon DLCs. It's good to have dungeons that are not mandatory parts of the story, but can be enjoyed as side stories by people who like dungeons. Those DLCs can cater to the players who like running dungeons as an activity, and those who don't can ignore them (or set aside their reservations and give them a shot for the experience). The downside is that you lose opportunities for variety when you know that all four new dungeons in a year have to be related to dragons or vampires or whatever, and probably some people feel like DLC dungeons have become too easy because they have to be at least reasonably manageable for folks who are only there for the story. (But I suppose that's what vet mode is for.) I've never bought a dungeon DLC and I've generally avoided them because I'm a wuss and didn't really have a reason to do them, but since I have ESO+ now I have made a point to do the dungeons that are part of the year-long stories because they're related to the stories.

There are a few other things I could echo from earlier posts, like how retreading tropes and story beats contributes to the feeling that the writing is stale and formulaic, or how conflicts revolving around societal or political issues can be just as compelling as the big catastrophic threats, but I guess I'll close by pointing out the successes that ZOS has had with DLCs like Murkmire and Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, and maybe considering whether this year-long stretched-out saga model is an opportunity cost for the kind of storytelling that can be done on a more intimate and self-contained scale.

AdamLAD

Exploring the actual elder scrolls would be a good start. Yano, the actual title of the game ? We only see the elder scrolls in PvP which give us small buffs. Other then that absolutely nothing about them. Theres a lot you can do with them as theres timetravling involved. Go back to the times of ysgramor ? When mirrak was the 1st dragonborn and how he failed he destiny ? Go back to when the dragon war was at its peak ? So many untold stories we all know off written in literature but never actually experienced. Dwemer would be amazing but I think that's best left for a main interation and hopefully TES6. Id rather them have one huge expansion with like 6 dungeons 2 trials in one big area with lots of interesting density than the current structure. With the rest of the year on performance and balance tweaks. I'm lagging in BGs, Duels and overland now. Games performance is to the point where Zos should be taken to court for selling a broken product.

Brrrofski

I personally hate the whole year being the same theme.

I know some may like it, but it was much better personally when you had two completely different zones and each dungeon pack had their own theme.

It just kept thing fresh for me.

Like what is the actual difference between western Skyrim and the reach? Or northern and southern elsweyr? Just fells like an extra bit they took off the chapter imo. Same terrain, same enemies, same wold events, same story. I find it boring.

Tornaad

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, thanks for the passion in this thread about release structure. We're taking note of your comments here for future conversations.

For more constructive feedback, let us know what you would potentially like to see in a future release structure and why. These suggestions could help in future discussions to better the overall experience for all players. Thanks for your future feedback!

@ZOS_Kevin I want to see a Tamriel that is lived it, not one that is cookie cutter copied. Yes, I love the stories, and I love where things are going, but drop the formulas. Start with the lore and build out. Also expand on the stories for older zones. For example, for a chapter, you could release a new zone and add an expanded story onto an old zone. Or take the story of the new chapter and have it spread from the one zone to multiple zones, like how the main quest does. Additionally, don't just limit yourselves to telling a story that wraps up in a year, tell a story that builds on itself. Follow up on older stories and turn them into something more.

Life isn't a cookie cutter, and if we are going to live another life in Elder Scrolls online, then it should be lived in.
Just changing the shape and theme of a dungeon does not mean it is different, it means you are putting different frosting on it, but scrape that off, and you still have the same cookie.

Sure, with someone like me, I won't care about the repetitive nature, but I am likely a minority on that one, and not something you can plan to market to in the long run.

Adding things like the grapple bows (as fun as they are) is not the way to go, this game is in the past from Skyrim, so whatever you introduce in this game, if you are going to keep to the story feeling like it is something you can get lost in, then you also have to explain why people in Syrim (or any other Elder Scrolls game) do not have it.

Start off with the goal of redefining MMO's completely. Don't worry if you can or can't do it. Just try. Set the creatives lose in the game, rebound everything off the Lore Master, and then run with it. Build a game I could build a life in, by building a game that feels alive and lived in.

Get rid of the cookie cutters. They will never redefine anything and will only hold you back and cause lost profits in the long run as people eventually get tired of the same cookie with a different color of frosting put on it.

One possible story expansion idea is to let the war spill out of Cyrodiil every once in a while, whether that be a new PVP zone or perhaps the Dominion and Covenant team up against the Pact and push the war into Stonefalls for a bit, and then when things go south in the new alliance the war goes back to its normal course. And meanwhile both the Covenant and Dominion are sending parts of their armies to try to invade part of the other, and then you end up with 3 new PVP zones temporarily while the war escalates.

Maybe instead of a traditional chapter you release a new story driven dungeon that could take 20 or 30 hours to fully complete.

Have an expansion that lets you go back and help rebuild all the lands you witnessed torn apart.
Have expansion that builds out the different guild storylines. Maybe go so far as to dedicate one to each guild.

mzprx

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All! We want to thank everyone for the amount of feedback posted in this thread! Lots of good stuff in here. We will continue to review everything here and include your feedback in future conversation around update cadence. Continue to share your ideas with us. Thanks, everyone!

um, how about no? you say "we at ZOS listen!", but we all know that ain't true. if you did you'd have implemented ideas that we, players, have introduced long time ago. [snip] i'm talking about cosmetics, skins, things like that. nothing that would or even could change the gameplay so everyone would be happy. you'd get more money from us, we'd get more shiny things. have you listened to those ideas? nah. no matter what we suggest you will still do whatever you want regardless of our feedback. PTS feedback is the prime example of that..

people have been asking for tougher overland content. something like Craglorn at its release. but majority of players aren't 100k DPS gods and may struggle with hard content. that was the reason why Craglorn used to be a wasteland. emenies were too hard (remember wasps in Craglorn?), gear sets underwhelming so people avoided it. but how about creating another HM zone that would actually drop BiS gear? like, for people that struggle to get into veteran trials because of time issues or simply because they're not part of trial guilds or prefer to play with just a group of friends? how many of players would actually go to such hardcore zone and do stuff if only the sets were BiS, or close to BiS? a ton. no need to worry about not making it at 7pm for trials, i can do it 3-4 with friends at midnight and still be able to get some awesome gear. IMO people would do that. put a great story in the zone and everyone would be happy..

[edited for bashing]

alberichtano

AdamLAD wrote: »

Exploring the actual elder scrolls would be a good start. Yano, the actual title of the game ? We only see the elder scrolls in PvP which give us small buffs. Other then that absolutely nothing about them. Theres a lot you can do with them as theres timetravling involved. Go back to the times of ysgramor ? When mirrak was the 1st dragonborn and how he failed he destiny ? Go back to when the dragon war was at its peak ? So many untold stories we all know off written in literature but never actually experienced. Dwemer would be amazing but I think that's best left for a main interation and hopefully TES6. Id rather them have one huge expansion with like 6 dungeons 2 trials in one big area with lots of interesting density than the current structure. With the rest of the year on performance and balance tweaks. I'm lagging in BGs, Duels and overland now. Games performance is to the point where Zos should be taken to court for selling a broken product.

Not entirely true. We do get a glimpse of one in WGT dungeon. But not saying that that is a lot. ;-)

alberichtano

Brrrofski wrote: »

I personally hate the whole year being the same theme.

I know some may like it, but it was much better personally when you had two completely different zones and each dungeon pack had their own theme.

It just kept thing fresh for me.

Like what is the actual difference between western Skyrim and the reach? Or northern and southern elsweyr? Just fells like an extra bit they took off the chapter imo. Same terrain, same enemies, same wold events, same story. I find it boring.

I got at bit worried when I saw the "yearly theme"-thing getting started. I have seen the same gimmick from an old RPG-company, White Wolf, back in the day, and it went downhill pretty quickly (at least in my admitedly not so humble but very subjective opinion).

Serenez

The following is my personal opinion and I appreciate not everyone will agree.

Summerset did feel more finished/polished then the rest of the following Chapters. There were some mishaps with jewelry crafting and since then work has been done to rebalance this. More work needs to be done on jewelry writs vs cost to craft vs writ reward. When people feel the need to use 'the 'destroy' button there is an issue. For instance Superior Triune writs. The cost to craft this is horrendous. Add price of Iridium Plating and the Dawn Prism alone doesn't make this worth it for the reward. That is another topic entirely. When it comes down to the zone exploration, storyline etc. however, it just feels more 'complete' and polished. I am not sure how else to describe it.

Elsweyr, Greymoor and Blackwood have more 'fake' houses with no access, they seem like they don't belong. Like time ran out and 'oh lets just board this house up' sort of feel to it. I am not a role player but I can see how this can be immersion breaking for those that like to explore. It would almost be better not to put a house in, then put one that is boarded up. It feels like a placeholder, filler etc.

When any activity has a spawn time like Harrowstorm, Dragons etc. and there is a 'waiting period' between, people feel like their time is valuable, so they want to just get there quickly and efficiently to get it done. People have real life going on and some only have a limited amount of time available to play. Waiting for these to spawn for one is time consuming, then adding in any barriers to getting to these efficiently will affect their enjoyment of this activity. This brings me to the placement of Wayshines next to these is very important for those that like to partake in these. This must be taken into consideration when building the zone landscape and deciding where everything is placed. How efficient will this be for the player?

Blackwood feels empty and unfinished with respect to the zone, delves etc. It doesn't have the same balance of lootables in delves as it does with say Summerset or Elsweyr. There are passage ways that are are long with what seems like empty hallways that could have been made a bit smaller if there was no time to fill them up. I am not sure if this was intended to feel empty and baron, but in my opinion looks like time ran out. I often think, why am I going through this extremely large and empty hallway into yet another extremely large empty hallway. There are also more crafting nodes in Elsweyr it seems than in Blackwood.

I think too there is frustration when it comes to the PTS when bugs are brought up, but they are not fixed before release. To me it seems once again a time issue. Not enough time.

Year long story may be 'too long' for some. People get bored easily. While I appreciate from a business/development aspect that is may be more efficient, some people may not be feeling like doing the same 'theme' for an entire year. I am neutral on this subject. Another frustrating thing I hear from others, is that there are so many changes going on with combat, gear sets, etc. that they just get their build finalized and all their work is for nothing. Changes do need to occur with 'fixes' of bugs, however complete massive overhauls maybe could limited throughout the year to give people a chance to enjoy the build they just created.

So I think 'time' is the issue here. I truly believe if given enough time between releases, it will give developers, coders the ability to refine the bugs, polish the delves, public dungeons, zone and address imbalances etc. it will help to bring that same magic back to the game, that many know is capable. People are human and can only do so much within a given timeframe and especially given the circumstances surrounding this past year and challenges they have faced. There is pressure I am sure to get things done and released, but I am hoping that more time will be added to this schedule to relieve some of the burden. Creativity cannot be rushed and for the last few years it seems like everything has been rushed.

Parasaurolophus

I really like the way this thread moves. Nobody is trying to convince anyone or prove something. Nobody tries to cover up "most players". Everyone just calmly expresses their opinion and writes a lot of text. Unfortunately, this rarely happens on this forum. Especially on such hot topics. Players definitely feel like the game is in stagnation right now. I read the entire thread and also want to speak out, because I also feel that after so many years something is wrong with the game.

• Stories first. To be honest, I don't understand why so many players hate the year-long story system. Someone says that this is not enough for them, someone that is too much. However, the main quest in every chapter, starting with Elsweer, feels unfinished. At the end of each chapter, we are directly hinted - buy dlc at q4! And I see that people don't like it. While this is okay for me, it seems to me that because of this, the narrative suffers a lot. Morrowind, CC, Summerset also had one big story, but at the end of each story felt complete. I already wrote that perhaps the number of main quests should be increased. Now there are only 8 of them, where the last one is just an epilogue. That is, only 7. Perhaps it should be increased to 12, perhaps at the cost of side quests. Perhaps the problem is the quality of the writing. After all, before Elsweyer, people did not complain about boring stories so massively. It is noteworthy that the stories of q4 dlc`s are much better than the chapters. And the chapters feel like one extended introduction in a large location.
• Side quests. Remember the quest lines that were in Morrowind? It was a very good decision. Naryu and Veya, Sun-in-shadows and a few other characters are strongly remembered by people. They had whole quest chains, immersing us in their stories. Why did ZoS abandon this idea in subsequent dlc`s? Wasn't she good? Maybe because the new players did not complete these quests to the end? Maybe they were taking space for other quests? In any case, quality> quantity. Better to go through 2-3 good stories from 10 quests than 20 quests and not get any impressions.
• Alas, stories are losing their value. Blackwood is already the third such story and it feels like just another story. I would like to see some other story going through the stories. However ... The gradual return of the Five Companions gave hope that in the future everything would unite for some great story. And there is a fan theory that:
  That ultimately Meridia will be the main antagonist for Vestige. It appears almost in hints in every new dlc. She also directs our Vestige to Mannimarco at the beginning of the main story.
  I want to believe that this plot just took a break in Blackwood and will resume soon. I hope... Take a look at WoW. I've honestly never played WoW, but I love watching their cinematics. And I see how the story develops from year to year, how the characters change and how people discuss the motivation of this or that character.
• In my opinion, with dungeons dlc`s all fine. I know many people write here that they do not do group content, and to be honest, I do not know what I can answer to this ... However, there are people who write that they would just like to calmly complete quests in new dungeons. Here I can say that every new dungeon dlc I just take my boyfriend and we read every dialogue, note or book. I really don't see this as a problem. Join a roleplay guild, find friends with similar interests, and you won't need a storymod.
  I love the tendency to do secret bosses. I really liked the last boss in BDV. The fact that after defeating him we are given an additional reward is just great. BDV is the only dungeon whose sets I have collected 100%. Keep creating dungeons in the same spirit, you are doing everything right. Regarding the fact that all year-long dungeons are connected by one theme, I also do not see any problems. Why not? Why can't there be interesting stories related to a common theme? This is most likely a writing problem.

Stories are only part of the problem. Alas, the content system also needs to be redesigned.

• Next locations with 2 public dungeons, 5 boss... what else is there? This problem has been discussed many times and has been talked about more and more lately. Even Rich Lambert said at the Blackwood presentation or at the esolive (I don't remember to be honest) that without the introduction of new systems into the game, then every dlc will feel the same. But unfortunately this is what happens. Even with new systems. Alas, this is not enough. Why do we need new classes, various improvements and systems when the content just starts to get boring?
• Please turn your attention once again to the concept of "adventure zone". Yes, there are certain reasons why Craglorn was a failure then, but it's not just difficulty. People just didn't play the way they play now. People didn't care about their builds, rotation, and content conquest. The situation changed a lot when the first veteran dungeons were released. Locations are just "useless". Yes, they are beautiful, but we have no incentive to just play in the overland. Locations die very quickly. They are inhabited by players on the release and then when the second motive is relieved. Then the location just empties.
• Look again at Craglorn, but don't repeat his mistakes. Fill new zones with adventure dungeons like Shada's Tear, Skyreach, Rahni'Za School. Balance the area for a solo or a couple of players. Give the opportunity to choose the difficulty mode for the zone, for those who just want to enjoy the stories. Fill the area with unique rewards like the same nirncrux or something else. You should also get rid of the need to follow all the tasks in the quests. I remember when someone left the group in Craglorn, the new player in the party had to complete the quest from the very beginning. It was so annoying.
• One more point. I thought I would categorize it as a story, but I'll just dump it here. Quests, in addition to good stories, can also contain some kind of content. Not only combat. These can be riddles or puzzles. It can also be different ways of passing the quest. Stealth missions. ESO now looks more like a visual novel than an RPG. You just read dialogues, read dialogues, and read dialogues. Yes, perhaps the visual novel is the most accurate definition for questing in teso, which I have come across on the forum. Alas, this is not at all what you expect to get from adventures in the world of the Elder Scrolls.

Finally, I want to say that I am really worried about the future of the game. Now it's true, whoever says anything, seems to be a significant decrease in the population of players in the game. It became more difficult for me to trade, although I am a member of the top trade guild in the EU. Cyrodiil's campaigns are half full even at prime time. And finding people for 6 keys is generally a whole gamble. Perhaps the reason is simply a loss of interest.
The biggest surprise was the start of Blackwood. As always, I was eagerly downloading a new patch, I go into a new zone, and it is empty ... Empty! Where are people? Each new dlc release was accompanied by a large influx of players, lags and a drop in FPS in cities. Nothing. Although I liked the chapter. Yes, companions are bad, they are too useless for old players and require a lot of time and farm for new players. But I do not care. I liked the location, architecture, atmosphere, some new lore. Any main quest after Greymour seems good. The new relics are really usable! And of course the new trial is great! But for some reason, few people notice it. At least some other things are usually discussed on the forum.

Vhale

Elsweyr > Summerset imo
I loved the look of Greymoor. What I did not enjoy of it was the tendency of quest npcs to repeat back your previous dialog to you. After all, we are limited in how much voice time we get from NPCs. Over and over it was very noticeable that much of that voice time was used up to repeat back to us what we had just done. That, to me, is a huge opportunity cost. Instead of banter or new story, it was constant rehash. And that stole a lot of flavor from the quests.

I do agree there could be a break in the formula for a bit. It would keep things fresh and perhaps relieve bank space.

I would love to see frog/lizard/guar breeding and racing. Animal taming in UO as a skill to sell players mounts was a fun past time. If you look at adoptable sites, I think it could be as big as housing in terms of interaction. UO it was the only way you could get llamas as mounts. If someone tamed them and sold them to you. Or several colors of a bipedal creature.

Furnishings need some streamlining to be approachable to new players. I'd love to see a market either in the main cities or where the Impresario's tent is. I'd like, say once a month or every other week, have the zone furnishers for that DLC meet up in the main city to advertise their wares. Perhaps at a small discount? Or with a vendor that has a few random patterns that drop from that DLC. A bit like Lux/Golden vendor.

I'd like to see Sheo get ahold of sets instead of new set releases. IE, instead of creating new abilities why not make them do something nutty? Perhaps a tabard that swaps race or gender? Maybe changes your voice? There used to be a set of masks in EQ that were heavily desired that would let you swap race. They were very popular! It did not change your racial bonuses, it was just an illusion.

There's my 2 cents ^_^

colossalvoids

BrownChicken wrote: »

I really like the way this thread moves. Nobody is trying to convince anyone or prove something. Nobody tries to cover up "most players". Everyone just calmly expresses their opinion and writes a lot of text. Unfortunately, this rarely happens on this forum. Especially on such hot topics. Players definitely feel like the game is in stagnation right now. I read the entire thread and also want to speak out, because I also feel that after so many years something is wrong with the game.

• Stories first. To be honest, I don't understand why so many players hate the year-long story system. Someone says that this is not enough for them, someone that is too much. However, the main quest in every chapter, starting with Elsweer, feels unfinished. At the end of each chapter, we are directly hinted - buy dlc at q4! And I see that people don't like it. While this is okay for me, it seems to me that because of this, the narrative suffers a lot. Morrowind, CC, Summerset also had one big story, but at the end of each story felt complete. I already wrote that perhaps the number of main quests should be increased. Now there are only 8 of them, where the last one is just an epilogue. That is, only 7. Perhaps it should be increased to 12, perhaps at the cost of side quests. Perhaps the problem is the quality of the writing. After all, before Elsweyer, people did not complain about boring stories so massively. It is noteworthy that the stories of q4 dlc`s are much better than the chapters. And the chapters feel like one extended introduction in a large location.
• Side quests. Remember the quest lines that were in Morrowind? It was a very good decision. Naryu and Veya, Sun-in-shadows and a few other characters are strongly remembered by people. They had whole quest chains, immersing us in their stories. Why did ZoS abandon this idea in subsequent dlc`s? Wasn't she good? Maybe because the new players did not complete these quests to the end? Maybe they were taking space for other quests? In any case, quality> quantity. Better to go through 2-3 good stories from 10 quests than 20 quests and not get any impressions.
• Alas, stories are losing their value. Blackwood is already the third such story and it feels like just another story. I would like to see some other story going through the stories. However ... The gradual return of the Five Companions gave hope that in the future everything would unite for some great story. And there is a fan theory that:
  That ultimately Meridia will be the main antagonist for Vestige. It appears almost in hints in every new dlc. She also directs our Vestige to Mannimarco at the beginning of the main story.
  I want to believe that this plot just took a break in Blackwood and will resume soon. I hope... Take a look at WoW. I've honestly never played WoW, but I love watching their cinematics. And I see how the story develops from year to year, how the characters change and how people discuss the motivation of this or that character.
• In my opinion, with dungeons dlc`s all fine. I know many people write here that they do not do group content, and to be honest, I do not know what I can answer to this ... However, there are people who write that they would just like to calmly complete quests in new dungeons. Here I can say that every new dungeon dlc I just take my boyfriend and we read every dialogue, note or book. I really don't see this as a problem. Join a roleplay guild, find friends with similar interests, and you won't need a storymod.
  I love the tendency to do secret bosses. I really liked the last boss in BDV. The fact that after defeating him we are given an additional reward is just great. BDV is the only dungeon whose sets I have collected 100%. Keep creating dungeons in the same spirit, you are doing everything right. Regarding the fact that all year-long dungeons are connected by one theme, I also do not see any problems. Why not? Why can't there be interesting stories related to a common theme? This is most likely a writing problem.

Stories are only part of the problem. Alas, the content system also needs to be redesigned.

• Next locations with 2 public dungeons, 5 boss... what else is there? This problem has been discussed many times and has been talked about more and more lately. Even Rich Lambert said at the Blackwood presentation or at the esolive (I don't remember to be honest) that without the introduction of new systems into the game, then every dlc will feel the same. But unfortunately this is what happens. Even with new systems. Alas, this is not enough. Why do we need new classes, various improvements and systems when the content just starts to get boring?
• Please turn your attention once again to the concept of "adventure zone". Yes, there are certain reasons why Craglorn was a failure then, but it's not just difficulty. People just didn't play the way they play now. People didn't care about their builds, rotation, and content conquest. The situation changed a lot when the first veteran dungeons were released. Locations are just "useless". Yes, they are beautiful, but we have no incentive to just play in the overland. Locations die very quickly. They are inhabited by players on the release and then when the second motive is relieved. Then the location just empties.
• Look again at Craglorn, but don't repeat his mistakes. Fill new zones with adventure dungeons like Shada's Tear, Skyreach, Rahni'Za School. Balance the area for a solo or a couple of players. Give the opportunity to choose the difficulty mode for the zone, for those who just want to enjoy the stories. Fill the area with unique rewards like the same nirncrux or something else. You should also get rid of the need to follow all the tasks in the quests. I remember when someone left the group in Craglorn, the new player in the party had to complete the quest from the very beginning. It was so annoying.
• One more point. I thought I would categorize it as a story, but I'll just dump it here. Quests, in addition to good stories, can also contain some kind of content. Not only combat. These can be riddles or puzzles. It can also be different ways of passing the quest. Stealth missions. ESO now looks more like a visual novel than an RPG. You just read dialogues, read dialogues, and read dialogues. Yes, perhaps the visual novel is the most accurate definition for questing in teso, which I have come across on the forum. Alas, this is not at all what you expect to get from adventures in the world of the Elder Scrolls.

Finally, I want to say that I am really worried about the future of the game. Now it's true, whoever says anything, seems to be a significant decrease in the population of players in the game. It became more difficult for me to trade, although I am a member of the top trade guild in the EU. Cyrodiil's campaigns are half full even at prime time. And finding people for 6 keys is generally a whole gamble. Perhaps the reason is simply a loss of interest.
The biggest surprise was the start of Blackwood. As always, I was eagerly downloading a new patch, I go into a new zone, and it is empty ... Empty! Where are people? Each new dlc release was accompanied by a large influx of players, lags and a drop in FPS in cities. Nothing. Although I liked the chapter. Yes, companions are bad, they are too useless for old players and require a lot of time and farm for new players. But I do not care. I liked the location, architecture, atmosphere, some new lore. Any main quest after Greymour seems good. The new relics are really usable! And of course the new trial is great! But for some reason, few people notice it. At least some other things are usually discussed on the forum.

Would completely agree on most of the stuff written (bar year long story that might be the source of wiring quality decrease still) and hope zenimax would take some points into consideration.

Darkstorne

Woodenplank wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

(PS: Less is more, quality over quantity - always!)

Speaking of which...

Please, ZOS, for the love of the Divines, the Daedra, and the misc. please stop rehashing random older creatures/enemies into new zones. Trust yourselves that the new things are enough!

Like in Elsweyr; we got crazy new Terror Birds, behemoth Mountain Bristlebacks, all the different types of senche and so on. Really on theme for a new zone.
But somewhere in the design process someone went "Why don't we put some basic old wolves in there as well?"; and remember those "Haj-Mota" we used as monstrous new fauna in Black Marsh? Ehh chuck one or two of those in there as well.

And did anyone farming Harrowstorms ever think to themselves; 'hmn, these vampire lords and amazing(!) new Blood Knight models are a bit repeditive; I sure wish we could see another rehash of the Daedric Titan model!' Call it blood titan or harrow whatever.


Like... imagine you were at an Asian restaurant, eating some kind of delicious, spicy noodle soup you hadn't tried before. But for some reason the chef decided to chuck a slice of pepperoni pizza in there. And it's not that I don't like pizza... But what the hell is it doing in my noodle soup?

That's a bugbear of mine too It cheapens the zones they previously appeared in. Gryphons showing up in Elsweyr made Summerset feel less special. And why are Morrowind's alit absolutely everywhere?

I'm also glad I'm not the only one who sees the problem with yearly stories. It forces a Chapter to end without a proper conclusion, whereas self contained stories with an over-arching narrative (Morrowind - CWC - Summerset) or standalone stories (Orsinium - Murkmire) worked really well.

Things I'd like to see, and things that are going well atm imo:

1) I like the focus on just two or three cities/towns at a time, rather than an entire province-load. Quality over quantity. It means the cities of a province get more time in development to look unique with architectural assets and layout. Poor Summerset, where every city looked identical, even Alinor despite ESO's official crystalline lore-friendly concept art for it, and Dusk ended up as a single tower on a cliff that didn't even have an interior...

That said, more interiors would be nice in the future, with added emphasis on TG/DB integration to give players good reasons to enter them.

2) Detach dungeon DLC from year long stories. Or add solo modes. Or let us take up to 3 companions in with us (when that many exist in the game). I heal in dungeons, I love running dungeons, I love story. I never feel like I can slow down and listen to the NPCs and all their dialogue here because I'm critical to the group's survival. So I skim read as quick as I can and that makes me sad Either add a solo solution, or separate them from the core story entirely. The two don't compliment each other at all right now.

3) World ending threats aren't necessary. Not all the time. The world is always the main character in an Elder Scrolls game, not the villain. Dragons aren't why Skyrim was so successful - the beautiful world was. Mehrunes Dagon isn't why Oblivion was so successful - the beautiful world was. Dagoth Ur wasn't why Morrowind was so successful - the beautiful world was. And critically you can play hundreds of hours in each of those three games without even triggering those core threats. You can literally adventure through Skyrim without dragons, or Cyrodiil without Oblivion gates. ESO needs to refocus a bit here and recognize that we're here for Tamriel itself, and not necessarily for yearly big bads.

I'll leave it at those three points for me. I won't dig deep into features/mechanics I'd like to see (melee magicka weapon!) or future zones (Falinesti in a pocket realm!) since this seems mostly about release schedule improvements. I will say that I think the writers and level designers do a fantastic job given the short amount of time they're given with each release. I wouldn't mind if things slow down a bit either (new zone only in the Chapter, one dungeon per Q1 and Q3 release, Q4 release is something unique like solo arena / housing update / PVP additions / TG and DB overhauls / some sizable feature update like that) provided the quality increases as a result.

Quality over quantity

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Hurbster wrote: »

Also, having everything taking place in the same year is silly and confusing.

One of the things LOTRO did very right was using the "Book Story Lines" to "move the world on"..

For example the stuff around Minas Tirith is set in two very distinct "times" Minas Tirith Before The Battle and Minas Tirith After The Battle.

But the Before / After dichotomy affects more than just Minas Tirith - so the wider world feels as if it has moved on.

In places it has been brilliantly utilised to give the impression of a changing, living world.

All The Best

LadyHeloise

Firstly, I like long stories - no problem with this. I do have a problem with the formula that these stories are released by as it constrains when the story has to end, the structure of it etc. This leads to stories that are either rushed or stretched out artificially to fit this formula.

But I think two other issues also constrain what can be done: that everything is supposed to be happening in one year, and the idea that it is ok to do the newest content first. There can be little 'progression' then. People here are asking for stories that update base zones, which I would love to see, but that means you would have to do stories in the right order, which goes against both of these (policy) decisions. I know this happens now if you want to experience the stories properly, but it would only get more confusing. This is a real shame, as I would love to know what happens next to the orcs in Orsinium for example, or find out more about Meridia's plans (surely this has to be explored more after all the hints - pretty please?!).

One thing I liked in Orsinium was as the story progresses so does the building and improvement of the city. I would love to see more of this, so you feel that what you do makes a difference even if only in a small way, although this does give a clear lie to the 'all happening at the same time' conceit.

wishlist14

Morrowind ❤❤❤
Summerset ❤❤❤
Elsweyr❤❤❤
Skyrim ❤❤
Blackwood❤❤

I think it's familiarity that breeds contempt for some players. I've been playing eso since just prior to launch...I can't complain about its entertainment value. Zos has managed to keep me amused for many years and i deeply appreciate it. I'm stilll here since i cant find any other game that comes close to eso.

Parasaurolophus

I would like to add something else. There are some issues that ZoS seems to be ignoring, although it ruins the game for a lot of players.

• Balance. Return the stamina to pve. The magic meta has been dominating for the last 3 years and that's much. It seems like the balance is oriented towards the average player. Yes, you can of course play in stamina, do good dps, close veteran trials. But it is magic that has more potential and greater convenience. So all high end players play only in magic. You can still be effective at stamina, but much better if you play magic. Looking at the high-end players, the average players also copy their playstyle en masse.
• For a very long time, players have been complaining that Wardens and Necromancers are OP for pvp. And it seems that this problem is completely ignored. Although in Murkmire, due to harsh complaints from a large number of players, ZoS completely ruined the NB. At one time, the developers stated that they were guided by statistics for balance. I understood that while the population of different classes is uniform and there are no significant advantages in terms of the number of murders and deaths among different classes, then everything is ok. Although most likely I'm wrong. In fact, the OP of classes for pvp is not 2 but 4 - this is stamvarden, stamnecromancer, manasorc and stamdk. The rest of the classes are far behind. Maybe the statistics are good because most of the players are average? But it is still obvious that a good player playing stamnecro with a probability of 99% will kill a good player playing stamnb / manateplar... It's amazing how the pvp balance suddenly stopped doing anything.
• Ballgroups. An elegant solution has been suggested by players many times - just add a small cooldown for the purge effects. And nobody understands, nobody can explain why it might not work. Instead, we are being asked to use the new sets, it looks dubious. There are also fears that these sets may be adopted by the ballgroups themselves.
• Also, I really think that there is no reason to share the balance between pvp and pve. Seriously. In pvp, as a rule, it is not the values that decide. Solves great burst healing and burst damage capabilities. And also an important role is played by additional useful effects for class skills. Remove the major defile from the blastbones and you will weaken the necromancer without affecting the pve. Remove the delay from the courses / wrath and you will balance sorc without sacrificing pve. Remove some of the overload of skills from the warden, which he can receive in the raids, and he will be balanced for pvp.
  And to be honest, pve was never destroyed for the sake of pvp. This is a myth that they persistently continue to force here on the forum. But I would not like to raise this topic here.
• And finally RNG. It's not a secret for anyone what kind of torture farming of weapons in dungeons turns into. Dozens or even hundreds of boring races on normal dungeons turn into a nightmare. Without exaggeration.

StarOfElyon

whitecrow wrote: »

I would rather have one large release per year rather than this piecemeal thing they've been doing.

I feel similarly. I would like the expansion released as one big update a year. I'm putting off doing the Blackwood quest so that I can experience the full story at once.

More than that though, I want the Tamriel map fixed (where's Winterhold!).

Parasaurolophus

More than that though, I want the Tamriel map fixed (where's Winterhold!).

In the future dlc`s.