I Think Zos should begin to break from the standard release formula

Grandchamp1989

Had a discussion with the misses yesterday that the predictable content release.. to us atleat.. are starting to become a bit stale.

The easy zone quest
1 dolmen clone
The 2 public dungeons
6 delves
Formula are getting a tad bit too predictable for new zones.

Same with group dungeons, i believe we are currently at 44 group dungeons with 20 of them being dlc dungeons. With the next two dlc dungeons they Will pretty much be neck and neck with basegame.

I think it would be great to break from the standard formula and let the writers and devs loose on coming up with creative and fun content they would play.
Make it wacky, interesting and different.

Eso has become very streamlined as of late from the 4 cp slots to the same few pve sets being truely viable to content releases.

This is just an observation from us, and how we see it. Nothing more.

That being said I think it would be cool if they allowed the writers and devz to let their hair down and have some legitimate fun with the releases to break from the formulas a little.

Dropstitch

ZOS definitely need to try something different.

The last two expansions have been underwhelming, and there are several reasons for this, but one is that the formula has become stale now. Exploring Blackwood felt very much like exploring Western Skyrim, the main difference being that visually they reused slightly different assets for each.

ZOS desperately need to be less safe in the way they think about ESO, and this is not only for newer expansions, but is also required to clean up the flustercluck of confused storylines and repetitive content that the existing game has become.

DreadDaedroth

I'd like to see more dlc dungeons not linked with year long theme.

Hurbster

It's been a bit of a cycle in that the one we have to pay extra for is the 'bad one' , eg Elsweyr, Greymoor and the one that comes with the sub is the 'good one' Dragonhold/Markarth'. This is of course my personal opinion.

It's ok to tell a story over many parts, look at the Daedric Wars one, two expansions and a DLC, with plenty of foreshadowing. Whether they stuck the landing with the end of Summerset is, again personal opinion.

Or tell a complete story in a single zone, no obvious bad guy with the real power behind them, lost princesses, ect, ect. Murkmire was a nice

I suppose we still hold Wrothgar as the gold standard. It was obviously an experiment (much like Craglorn, but we don't talk about Craglorn) that set the standard for Morrowind and Summerset. I don't mind paying extra for something that size and with all that content.

Now we have paid chapters that have cut content that appear as DLC, zones are obviously split in two. We have all had to get used to new ways of working in these times, not just AAA companies with huge resources.

What I do like about the game is that there is no 'borrowed power', unless ZoS does an 'archeology' and just gives up on it I can see antiquities staying relevant for a good long time. And when a new zone is released the old zones don't fade into insignificance.

Some base game sets are still very solid and good picks even now.

But I'm drifting off topic, the pros and cons of horizontal progression and the lack of PvP love from the devs need their own threads.

WeerW3ir

they wont change anyway. this way is paying well them. tho... each year the expansions are losing their charm. like. look::

(personal opinion, BUT KINDA TRUE)

Urvoth

WeerW3ir wrote: »

they wont change anyway. this way is paying well them. tho... each year the expansions are losing their charm. like. look::

(personal opinion, BUT KINDA TRUE)

Yeah, exactly. It all started going downhill after Summerset.

Dropstitch

Urvoth wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

they wont change anyway. this way is paying well them. tho... each year the expansions are losing their charm. like. look::

(personal opinion, BUT KINDA TRUE)

Yeah, exactly. It all started going downhill after Summerset.

Summerset was a hump and Elsweyr was broadly of similar quality to earlier expansions. The real and very steep decline was the last two.

WeerW3ir

Dropstitch wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

they wont change anyway. this way is paying well them. tho... each year the expansions are losing their charm. like. look::

(personal opinion, BUT KINDA TRUE)

Yeah, exactly. It all started going downhill after Summerset.

Summerset was a hump and Elsweyr was broadly of similar quality to earlier expansions. The real and very steep decline was the last two.

exactly as the picture of mine states. elsweyr was/were on morrowind lvl. rest. just down, down, down the river :P

colossalvoids

I find only dlc dungeons somewhat breaking the rules having additional encounters, optional HMS etc. That's the reason I adore such releases way more now, small dlc and chapter is just same thing all over which is depressing to say the least. And now year long depression.. meaning story, obviously.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Agreed.

Creativity is having a hard time bursting out of the new content. Everything feels the same, dull, smallish maps, no soul to the new DLC's..and the nostalgia route should have been done so much better (Skyrim and the different areas within).
Many of us feared it wouldn't be up to par and it wasn't. I stopped DLC purchases after Greymoor as I found it to be personally uninteresting and not worthy of the sometimes strangely high price tags they implement for DLC.

Destai

I agree. I'd love yearly monolithic releases with more sweeping stories and systems. The odd thing is we have all these weird gaps between zones now and it just feels so piecemeal at this point. The last two years have felt very by-the-numbers, so I think a change in approach would be welcome.

CombatRecon11B

I've been saying this for a while. Eso is going stale and zos needs to shake it up. But more importantly ZOS NEEDS TO LISTEN TO THEIR FANS!!!!

ZOS_Kevin

Hi All, thanks for the passion in this thread about release structure. We're taking note of your comments here for future conversations.

For more constructive feedback, let us know what you would potentially like to see in a future release structure and why. These suggestions could help in future discussions to better the overall experience for all players. Thanks for your future feedback!

CombatRecon11B

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, thanks for the passion in this thread about release structure. We're taking note of your comments here for future conversations.

For more constructive feedback, let us know what you would potentially like to see in a future release structure and why. These suggestions could help in future discussions to better the overall experience for all players. Thanks for your future feedback!

A no man's land, open world, veteran trial difficulty area would be nice.

Jameson18

Update Craglorn. Update sets from Craglorn.

Add another new, harder "craglorn" area in a dlc. Break the cycle from the other patterns.

Perhaps with something akin to tel var - sets, mats, motifs, runeboxes etc. from a couple of higher end group difficulty areas (or at least hard to solo), and give the folks that want harder overland content what they want at zero risk to the new players and without coding or adding game modes or modifiers to changing open world difficulty.

adriant1978

Let's take a break from the year long story thing.

Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and Clockwork City were great self-contained small DLC.

whitecrow

I would rather have one large release per year rather than this piecemeal thing they've been doing.

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, thanks for the passion in this thread about release structure. We're taking note of your comments here for future conversations.

For more constructive feedback, let us know what you would potentially like to see in a future release structure and why. These suggestions could help in future discussions to better the overall experience for all players. Thanks for your future feedback!

The return of the king.

Me personally, I would want some of the following:
1. A self-contained story. The quality of writing is being sidelined in favor of the yearly release cycle and it shows. They have to breakup the story between the midyear and end-year zone DLCs and it feels unnatural. Not to mention, we're paying the most for the mid-year DLC and it's effectively incomplete content because of this. So many of us play this game for the story and the most obvious sentiment is the game peaked at Summerset and Orsinium is a narrative masterpiece.
2. Open world event variety. We all like the dolmens and their cousins but with the current yearly structure, we know we're getting only one flavor a year in zone events. One of the great things about the Craglorn zone is the variety of group events that can be done. It just needs to incentivized. Dragons and Harrowstorms just weren't fun after awhile, so I can understand the developers scratching their heads as to what we truly want. I just know playing in Guild Wars 2, the open world events were something relish. Problem is, when you have too much of a good thing, people are desensitized to it - much like the celebration events that are always ongoing.
3. Token-based unlocks. I'd like to see a new chapter and know I can plan out my activities to unlock the motifs, gear sets, furnishings, etc.
4. Release dungeons with the expansion. I always found it a bit off-putting and greedy that we have two separate DLCs for dungeons when most MMOs I know put that group content in the expansion itself. I know ZOS tends towards a lot of à la carte and timed offers, and honestly I think people are a bit tired of it.
5. QoL updates. A lot of players revere Summerset because it gave us multiple new systems. We've gotten the stickerbook and some other really nice additions since, but the appeal of Blackwood - companions - doesn't feel mature.

Overall, you guys gotta get ahead of the burnout from yearly releases. It's obviously not working that well for development - most patches and releases this year and last introduced more bugs. So I think having a yearly releases cuts down on technical debt and allows for a more big-bang rollout.

WeerW3ir

As i always said. What would make the game perfect once again if the original story plotting would be back. Not yearly story, but rather a continious story. Something which threatening the whole nirn. Not just a zone. Not a fancy Dragon, or a vampire or a puny god. Something much much bigger. The whole continent. So you the player should solve it by visiting different zones. It would actually freshen up the game.

Think forward. Not just for a year. Think into the future. Set up a path like wow, or destiny. Destiny story is heading forward each season and expansion. Making the game even better. Eso just thinks in small

Jaimeh

They need to at least break free of the 'year long' adventure pattern, I think it causes the quality of the stories and writing to suffer. Also, it would be nice if they added the continuation of the story for the dungeonns that don't have a second counterpart, like Direfrost keep, etc., instead of new DLCs. Of course that would beg the question of how they would monetize them if they were part of the base game, but it would keep the ratio of base/dlc from becoming unbalanced, for the time being anyway.

Sylvermynx

I'm a little not much interested in "threatening all of Nirn" personally.

Ratzkifal

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, thanks for the passion in this thread about release structure. We're taking note of your comments here for future conversations.

For more constructive feedback, let us know what you would potentially like to see in a future release structure and why. These suggestions could help in future discussions to better the overall experience for all players. Thanks for your future feedback!

What I like about the year-long release structure is the attempt at something greater.
The Morrowind-Clockwork City-Summerset trilogy was a very good example of what the year-long stories should have given us - self-contained stories that fit into a bigger picture. The dungeon releases, while part of the year-long marketing never really advanced the story in any meaningful way. It is pretty much filler content that is vaguely related to or merely setup for the actual plot - and that is appropriate for the medium of a Dungeon DLC, but at that point it might as well not be part of the larger narrative at all in favor of content variety.
As a first step I would like to see the Q1 dungeon DLC be untangled from the other releases of the year, since it's between the finale of the previous year's story and the beginning of the next one. That way the chapter prologue quest can go into more depth which I can see being fun.

Eventually due to previous decisions on content, the year-long story format will have to be abandoned as a zone like the Tenmar forest and the area around Soulrest would not naturally fit into any story format due to being isolated from the year's chapter zone yet be too small to support their own chapter, so it would be a thematic mess to make it fit. Thus the current release structure must be abandoned eventually, or at least seriously called into question, in favor of better story telling.
Also it can be a little bit off-putting that you buy a chapter for big cash only to get half the story, especially since it's not exactly properly announced that at the end of each year after the Q4 DLC drop there will be an ESO free trial period so people can finish the DLC story and get to experience the finale of their chapter, but that's not really an issue for someone who buys all content anyway.
Ideally the default release structure should be every content release being independent of the other releases - the same way it was before Elsweyr with year-long narratives being the exception. Of course cross-references and connections can and should be made when appropriate and larger narratives should also be possible when sensible. But people who dislike Khajiit didn't like the Elsweyr year because that's all it was - Khajiit (and dragons) everywhere all the time. That alone should be reason enough to mix things up sooner than after an entire year has passed.
Also ZOS needs to reevaluate some of their decisions when it comes to taking the easy road for making content. Retconning Rimmen to not have any Akaviri in it, taking the Lilmothiit out of Lilmoth and having them all conveniently extinct with zero traces of their culture despite it being very recent events. If something interesting cannot be done now, should it be left out and deliver a subpar experience - or should it be done at a later point when it can be done and deliver an amazing experience? I choose the latter.
A lot of interesting things have been left out of the game, like Direnni, Ancient Aldmer and Ayleid ruins all looking the same, Summerset architecture having nothing at all of butterfly wings but looking just like Neuschwanstein (aka Disney Castle), no walking Grahtoaks and no Imga and Centaurs in Valenwood, whole cities being downgraded to public dungeons or to scenery for a trial (Cloudrest), Khajiiti furstocks where missing from the basegame which left us scared that Elsweyr would be a huge disappointment and retcon the furstocks. Most recently, if it hadn't been for community backlash, the new tutorial would have given us the Zero Stone in the Adamantine tower and made it into a cheap plot device for us to teleport to the zones when it is one of the most significant and mysterious objects in the world of Tamriel (according to one theory even potentially being a case for a giant Elder Scroll, created by the divines). Please do not cheapen and downgrade the marvels of the world more than absolutely necessary - take some risks, dare to be different, dream big! That's where the Elder Scrolls is at its best.

Also as a side note on story telling, mortal antagonists are fundamentally more interesting than god-like world-ending beings. Rada Al-Saran was way better as an antagonist than Nocturnal in Summerset (not better than in Clockwork City though because that was just really on-point for Nocturnal). However in the end Rada felt a bit like a Gary Stu who battled Leki to a stand-still, met the Red Eagle, is an ancient vampire lord with void powers and yet he still lost to us simply because the story demanded it and we had friendship on our side. Compare that to the main villain of Orsinium. Political intrigue can be very good content as long as it doesn't involve too much bureaucracy and technicalities and this would also be my suggestion for the main plot of the Telvanni Peninsular + Telvanni Isles which I have very high expectations for.

Woodenplank

Surprisingly civil thread, and ZOS hasn't even had to [redacted] comments for bashing and such. What I like to see!

And I wholeheartedly agree with what Adriant and Destai said. I'd much rather see one big release than these tickling-in things.
Currently the game doesn't have any particularly large zones, and moving through the base-game feels sort of stunted since One Tamriel (but that's a different issue). I wouldn't mind seeing one big DLC "conglomerate" that combines all the new dungeons, public dungeons, delves, quests, and a trial into one big zone (or maybe like a duo of big zones) - makes it much easier to do narrative cohesion as well, which I think actually help the writers do their best work.

Also, as many others, I think DLC were generally better before the "year-long adventure" model - e.g. Imperial City had a massive bundle of content (not so popular anymore, but the volume was there), and personally, Thieves Guild is still one of my favourite DLC, despite not even having a "Dolmen-clone" in the new zone (gasp!) - but perhaps that's because it was more innovative at the time; it was the first time we saw a new Trial, and with unprecedented difficulty too!

Also... I think the constant addition of new zones with new dailies and new overland events (Dolmens, Dragons, coral abyssal thingies and whatnot) is thinning the player population unduely. As it is, it can actually be hard to get people together for previous DLC group encounters like Wrothgarr dailies, or Summerset World Bosses because there are also Harrowstorms and Dragon hunts across four other zones to be done!

starkerealm

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Same with group dungeons, i believe we are currently at 44 group dungeons with 20 of them being dlc dungeons. With the next two dlc dungeons they Will pretty much be neck and neck with basegame.

As a really pedantic nitpick, we're already at a 50/50 split of Base Game and DLC dungeons. Two of the, "base game," dungeons aren't. City of Ash II and Crypt of Hearts II were released as post launch DLC back in the mandatory subscription era. Because they're pre-Tamriel Unlimited, everyone gets them for free, just like Craglorn. However, just like Craglorn, they weren't technically part of the base game.

SeaGtGruff

Personally, I don't mind year-long story arcs, but I think there's also something to be said for standalone chapters, DLC zones, and DLC dungeons. For that matter, there's also something to be said for story arcs that stretch out actoss a couple of years or longer-- as long as each portion of the story arc is self-contained enough that it doesn't require completing all of the prior portions in order.

Hotdog_23

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, thanks for the passion in this thread about release structure. We're taking note of your comments here for future conversations.

For more constructive feedback, let us know what you would potentially like to see in a future release structure and why. These suggestions could help in future discussions to better the overall experience for all players. Thanks for your future feedback!

The return of the king.

Me personally, I would want some of the following:
1. A self-contained story. The quality of writing is being sidelined in favor of the yearly release cycle and it shows. They have to breakup the story between the midyear and end-year zone DLCs and it feels unnatural. Not to mention, we're paying the most for the mid-year DLC and it's effectively incomplete content because of this. So many of us play this game for the story and the most obvious sentiment is the game peaked at Summerset and Orsinium is a narrative masterpiece.
2. Open world event variety. We all like the dolmens and their cousins but with the current yearly structure, we know we're getting only one flavor a year in zone events. One of the great things about the Craglorn zone is the variety of group events that can be done. It just needs to incentivized. Dragons and Harrowstorms just weren't fun after awhile, so I can understand the developers scratching their heads as to what we truly want. I just know playing in Guild Wars 2, the open world events were something relish. Problem is, when you have too much of a good thing, people are desensitized to it - much like the celebration events that are always ongoing.
3. Token-based unlocks. I'd like to see a new chapter and know I can plan out my activities to unlock the motifs, gear sets, furnishings, etc.
4. Release dungeons with the expansion. I always found it a bit off-putting and greedy that we have two separate DLCs for dungeons when most MMOs I know put that group content in the expansion itself. I know ZOS tends towards a lot of à la carte and timed offers, and honestly I think people are a bit tired of it.
5. QoL updates. A lot of players revere Summerset because it gave us multiple new systems. We've gotten the stickerbook and some other really nice additions since, but the appeal of Blackwood - companions - doesn't feel mature.

Overall, you guys gotta get ahead of the burnout from yearly releases. It's obviously not working that well for development - most patches and releases this year and last introduced more bugs. So I think having a yearly releases cuts down on technical debt and allows for a more big-bang rollout.

Agree with your first point very much. Like one great zone with a complete story and not have it spread out over the year. Let the first Dungeon release be like a prequel to the chapter or a teaser. Same with the 3rd quarter be a prequel/teaser to the smaller zone and complete story in the 4th quarter. Summerset/ Murkmire was awesome. To date so far for me nothing tops Orsinium.

You could just make the four dungeon per year just fun areas with a good story contained in each dungeon.

Think trying to spread the story out over a year is good in theory and sounds great on paper but it has proven to be stale in its delivery. Much prefer one strong self-contained story over four parts spread out. Makes the story to thin and barebones feeling.

Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging

Alucardo

For me, they set the bar really high with Orsinium. I'd consider myself primarily a pvper, but I still really enjoyed the Orsinium storyline and Wrothgar zone. There was so much to explore, and acquiring the museum pieces for 3 really nice costumes felt well worth it.
While playing through the story my emotions were up and down, which is something that rarely happens, and add the soundtrack on top of that. Mannnnn.
Now compare that with Blackwood and it makes you feel like they don't even care anymore. The entire landscape is just devoid of any character, and as a whole it was so uninspiring I never bothered to finish it. There was nothing there to capture me.
You come across a portal and think something amazing is going to happen, but you step through and see a bunch of dead daedra because someone has already killed everything, so you're just running through empty passages until you find a big boss at the end that drops a stupid reward. I went in one portal and never bothered to try another after that "experience".

Morrowind was done pretty well, though it's hard to explain, but I found it a bit "clean". Like you go into an ancestral ruin, which used to terrify me as a kid playing the original Morrowind. However in ESO they look like spa rooms or something. Apart from that they did a really nice job capturing it, and I had fun exploring and doing the story line.

Nothing quite beat Orsinium for me though. Great zone. Great story. Great rewards you were actually happy to get.

TheNuminous1

We need more content in places described in lore but left alone in any games. More oblivion realms. Give us falinesti in that trickster gods realm. Pyandonea!!!! Ocean content you did all this set up with the sload for ul Vor Kus let's go there.

And I don't care if people hate it cause of wow. I don't think wow should get the monopoly I deserve a flying mount. I insist on being a welkynar.

Definitely start doing a big yearly release or something like 2 or 3 times the physical size of current zones. Let us get lost. Make stuff less static. Roaming bosses and npcs

Pet taming. Pet fighting. Again wow can't just have a monopoly on everything. We have to realize at some point with gaming we are gunna want the same features other games have in our favorite games.

Hide my shoulders plz. I'd pay for a whole dlc for that.

More magic. More epic epicness. More legendary tales and fables. Get crazy with the lore make us feel like we are loading into skyrim for the first time and a dragon interrupts my haircut.

Give us the same awe of the elder scrolls universe that brought us all here. You have the connections and minds of hundreds of people who have worked on these games. The hands of artists who have proven they can fabricate amazing worldspaces.


Lay it on us.

Eso 2.0 revamp the whole game the whole world. All new base game. New activities new content more immersion and intuitive environment.

I know this game could do it and be the very best. Like no one ever was.

fizl101

I'd love a big story that isn't yet another god/demon/vampire (insert baddy of choice) is going to wipe the region or the world.

A story based on politics, intrigue (and yes of course that can include alot of fighting), relationships, and the story has real decisions to be made in it. However I do see the challenges in this when the timeline doesn't move on (still want it though )

What I admit I am not a fan of is splitting the story in two - the longer chapter getting half a story is just frustrating. Make a full story that doesn't rely on the later release to finish it, and give another interesting story in the DLC if the company is set on multiple releases a year that include story, or preferably put all of that in the main release as a longer/larger release and use a dlc for dungeons/arenas/battlegrounds and a small story.

And yes as has been mentioned by many - an optional way to make the story/overland harder - whether that is at time of character creation to ensure people don't cheese it, to a memento or similar that debuffs you would be greatly appreciated

(and please stop putting people in area chat by default)

Thank you!

Lady_Galadhiel

WeerW3ir wrote: »

they wont change anyway. this way is paying well them. tho... each year the expansions are losing their charm. like. look::

(personal opinion, BUT KINDA TRUE)

Uhm,I don't think Elsweyr was already a point where it went downhill,as i stated many times I started playing 4 months after Elsweyr release and the zone was still very visited,many people around killng dragons even outside of events and like that it stayed pretty much till Greymoor was announced.
Greymoor on the other hand was a desert 2 months after release and same happens to Blackwood.

Lady_Galadhiel

I would like to see LESS mythical items in the future and more furniture leads instead.
Morrowind,Summerset and Elsweyr where better expansions without adding extra grind to them like Greymoor already did.
People dont play the expansions but straight go to farm leads what makes the whole point of the expansion meaningless if people don't play it.