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Change the name to Nightblade City
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Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Noone is asking for the class to change, but there should be an effective counter to stealth. Magelight takes a skillslot, so not every player would use it anyways. Stealth would still be stealth, but some players would counter it.AuraNebula wrote: »Personally I feel stealthing isn't that wrong a mechanic. But players should not be able to gank and then re-stealth and re-attack, and I feel stealth detection should be unlimited. Having magelight activated should show ALL stealthers, whereever and however far they are away. As if you are looking with eyes that can see everything. This would make overall combat much more fair.
If stealth detection was unlimited then there would be no point in using stealth.
If we are getting rid of a class identifying abilities let's get rid of a sorcs shield and streak, templars breath of life and jabs, warden's Betty netch....
You see the point?
As it is now, the counter to stealth takes away a skillslot with nothing to show for it. And stealth should have a countermechanic, which at the moment it doesn't.
And the changes to light armor and vampire just makes many players instant targets for those who use stealth. Add to that, that I do not consider ganking from stealth to be true PvP.
I agree with @Morgha_Kul
PS: In another MMO I played, players could go invisible. But the counter was a simple toggle spell which would stay on 24/7, but this counter only showed shadowy figure(s) for those who were invisible. Not who they were, only that they were there. ESO needs something like this. It made PvP really fair!0 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭I understand your frustration but it is pvp and ppl have strategies there. Just have to find a team to run with or continue solo and deal with it. They can’t ban a class from Imp City. Besides each class can be built a way to defeat any other.
I don't a magblade bombinb 18 people and killing them is in no way balanced. And i have no idea how that's still a thingI am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Noone is asking for the class to change, but there should be an effective counter to stealth. Magelight takes a skillslot, so not every player would use it anyways. Stealth would still be stealth, but some players would counter it.
As it is now, the counter to stealth takes away a skillslot with nothing to show for it. And stealth should have a countermechanic, which at the moment it doesn't.
So you say there should be effective counters, list one, but because not every player uses it there's no effective counters?
We have to slot Cloak, which also takes up a skillslot btw. If you're not going to use something to counter the mechanic, of course there's not going to be a counter mechanic for you because you're not slotting the counters which are getting buffed in the update. It's your complacency on that point is what's going to get you ganked. Even in the update.3 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[snip]
The problem is, they're not using the counters they've already got — and they're being buffed next patch and they're still unwilling to use them. It's like trying to toss an end of a rope down a hole to get them out, but instead of using the rope? They're still trying to scramble to climb out of the hole, stating that there's nothing that can help them out.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2021 3:49PM0 -
coletas✭✭✭✭...crying for counters for gankers or bombers...
Excuse me... LOL XDDDDD
The problem is, they're not using the counters they've already got — and they're being buffed next patch and they're still unwilling to use them. It's like trying to toss an end of a rope down a hole to get them out, but instead of using the rope? They're still trying to scramble to climb out of the hole, stating that there's nothing that can help them out.
The problem is people in PvP zones that dont want to pvp and cry.
Would love to have easy counters for the rest of classes like for a nb!! Lol0 -
Indigogo✭✭✭✭✭Blows my mind that people aren't slotting detect pots right now.
Ever bust a nb and chase them down while they futilely try and cloak in full view?
Priceless.
The cat and mouse game is FUN if you stop playing the victim and learn how to counter.3 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blows my mind that people aren't slotting detect pots right now.
Ever bust a nb and chase them down while they futilely try and cloak in full view?
Priceless.
The cat and mouse game is FUN if you stop playing the victim and learn how to counter.
I just see it as delicious AP anymore.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭perfiction wrote: »You have plenty of ways to detect invisible units and effectively counter gankers, yet you decide to ignore them and go full PVE with mobs, then vent on the forum that you are dying.
https://deltiasgaming.com/2021/06/25/how-to-stop-a-ganker-in-eso/
Most of what he said does not apply in actual content, only good on paper. And next patch you scrap AOEs of the list.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I promise any experienced player with high burst would have delivered a similar insta death experience. Nightblades just tilt people that extra bit more.
It's not a dueling zone. No one is walking up to your face and saying, "Hello good sir! Fancy a quick session of fisticuffs? What, no, you're busy? I shall wait another 10 minutes whilst you continue to battle this 2 million hp beast"
It sucks dying on a boss, I know, it's happened to me so I get that pang of annoyance... but no one gets to pve in leisure in IC. That's the whole premise of the zone...
Defeats the whole purpose of PVP then
So many PVP'ers always talk about "PVP is more exciting than PVE because of the human element, it's less predictable, and more challenging", and then turn around and go out in tanker builds to bomb unsuspecting PVE'ers who aren't properly equipped to defend themselves, offer less challenge than the easiest of PVE overland, and then post on the forums wanting to ban tank builds in PVP because they can't gank anymore.
No. You can't have it both ways. The purpose of PVP is the competitive element. You can't seek out a competitive environment and then turn around and promote PVE bombing of players who can't fight back.
The best part of stealth play is destroying the unsuspecting and doing so in a way that they have zero chance to recover. IC is a great option for this style of play. It's also very easy to get wrecked when things dont go well. If you want fair competitive PVP there are duels. There is nothing fair about fights in IC nor should there be.
Lol, even if you suspect a nightblade, you will still get ganked and killed most of the time. There is a reason why nightblade is becoming popular, it is because it can kill almost any target and have a high survivability even on full light/meduim glass canons builds. Stamblade right now is hand down 1# pvp class in terms of damage, sustain and survivability.0 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Patches keep getting worse and worse and performance too.
No kudos to our game producer for these past few years.0 -
Malpheus_Prime✭✭✭I appreciate those folks in the thread telling me how to kill them in Cyrodiil and the IC.
Agreed, if anyone is in PVPland killing a boss their backside is fair game, same if they are trying to destroy a bridge by themselves, or simply running to where they want to go.
People, not mechanics, kill you in PVP. Stay in PvE if you need a controlled enemy environment.
This just makes me want to build a Nightblade and find the OP.1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Malpheus_Prime wrote: »I appreciate those folks in the thread telling me how to kill them in Cyrodiil and the IC.
Agreed, if anyone is in PVPland killing a boss their backside is fair game, same if they are trying to destroy a bridge by themselves, or simply running to where they want to go.
People, not mechanics, kill you in PVP. Stay in PvE if you need a controlled enemy environment.
This just makes me want to build a Nightblade and find the OP.
It's pretty fun — granted I haven't killed the OP in PvP yet (not sure they play on my platform/server), but over the years of similar threads like this? They're pretty easy to kill because they're not employing counters at all. Most of the arguments I've seen as of late are just as ridiculous as "I'm getting damaged, but I refuse to slot a heal so DPS needs to get nerfed because of my refusal to adapt."
It's why I stopped going after tanks. They can't kill me. They need friends to do that for them. So I kill their friends. Easy as pie.0 -
Michaelkeir✭✭✭✭✭perfiction wrote: »I was in the middle of a boss fight, busy trying to survive its aoe's and someone just walks up and kills you. I had no time to react to anything else. Nightblades have ruined the city!
So you blame other players that you got too focused on the boss and stopped paying attention to your surroundings? Yeah, makes complete sense
Damn those nightblades, my tunnel vision is their fault!
Getting solo bombed is deranged! No one should have that kind of power! And WHY should I be punished because I'm focused on the boss?? That's what boss fights do, they force you to focus on them and only them!
But you are in a pvp zone. So focusing on a boss and not watching your surroundings is asking for it. Imperial City is labeled an pvp zone, so enter it expecting to get ganked at anytime.
I understand your frustration, I really do but don’t expect mercy in that zone. There are counters to gankers. I’m a ganker and I can tell you now there are builds out there that can take on a boss and gankers and not bat an eye. I’ve seen some really beefy builds, Especially some very strong and tuff werewolf builds. Or travel with a few friends or guild mates. Traveling in a pack can add some protection but just be careful of bombers.
So my advice, build a tanky build that hits hard and roll with some friends.
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Saucy_Jack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TAKE ME DOWN TO THE NIGHTBLADE CITY WHERE THE BACKS ARE STABBED AND THE THROATS ARE SLITTYALL HAIL SNUGGLORR THE MAGNIFICENT, KING OF THE RNG AND NIRN'S ONE TRUE GOD! Also, become a Scrub-scriber! SJ Scrubs: Playing games badly to make you feel better about yourself.4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »TAKE ME DOWN TO THE NIGHTBLADE CITY WHERE THE BACKS ARE STABBED AND THE THROATS ARE SLITTY
There it is. The joke I've been refusing to put together for the last two days.0 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just because a boss can be solo'd, doesn't mean it was intended to. You were in a pvp zone, solo, and let your guard down completely because you were absorbed in combat with the boss. If you had been in a group, you could have had people using pvp measures to stay safe while the others burn down the boss in waves. Potions, abilities, situational awareness. You can't be mad about being killed in a pvp zone, on principle, you can't. You just have to get better equipped and have more awareness, and try it again.Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭perfiction wrote: »I was in the middle of a boss fight, busy trying to survive its aoe's and someone just walks up and kills you. I had no time to react to anything else. Nightblades have ruined the city!
So you blame other players that you got too focused on the boss and stopped paying attention to your surroundings? Yeah, makes complete sense
Damn those nightblades, my tunnel vision is their fault!
Yeah, when you are fighting a boss you should be looking for enemy nightblades!
That is the toxic attitude that has been setup in PvP.
Ironically, those who want PvP will help kill that part as they make poorer players mere supplies for them. Those players will quit even trying it. Then the PvPers can sit there all alone and whine about no one being in PvP.
Taking so much Tel Var in one go is a serious contributor to this as well. Also preventing the local rez during a boss fight....PC
PS4/PS51 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is a pretty cut and dried example of the zone functioning as intended. I say that as a person who loathes imperial city for exactly the same reason. I only venture in during some specific guild events and midyear mayhem because my love of tickets overcomes my dislike for IC. Fighting mobs and bosses in IC require a different strategy than in PvE zones precisely because you cannot predict when a player is going to strike you from stealth. If you can hold your own against other classes then you know that you probably need to adjust your build to deal with Nightblades. Good news is slotting revealing flare will grant some protection in the next patch so you'll have a skill to block stealth and get some extra protection against ganks at the same time.
That is the flaw.
Enough little pains and people will stop playing.
I am currently loving the support (addons) on the PC, but having to have walked from so many earned and purchased mounts/houses/etc. is another one. I do hope ZOS doesn't do a Blizzard and ignore these things!PC
PS4/PS50 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Also preventing the local rez during a boss fight....
The only thing that prevents rezing in PvP is the presence of a hostile player. If you're mid boss fight and you can't rez, there's an enemy player nearby.0 -
kmcaj✭✭✭✭✭Seems like PVP can't even get a couple zones without complaints from PVE only players. Let a couple zones be different. There is already an abundance of PVE play. Thank you for reading. Now time to go gank quest locations and players busy fighting bosses.
Edited by kmcaj on July 18, 2021 11:06PM2 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭StamPlar_1976 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »perfiction wrote: »I was in the middle of a boss fight, busy trying to survive its aoe's and someone just walks up and kills you. I had no time to react to anything else. Nightblades have ruined the city!
So you blame other players that you got too focused on the boss and stopped paying attention to your surroundings? Yeah, makes complete sense
Damn those nightblades, they are the reason of my tunnel vision!
I guess we shouldn't be opportunistic. :'(
There's not sporting competition in ganking someone who is pre-occupied or doesn't know what's coming.
That's cute that you think it's about sporting competition lol. It's about getting kills by any means necessary. Red = dead and all that jazz. I could care less about an honorable fight or your respect. If you're not Pact, you're prey.
Agreed that it's not a sporting competition at all in the IC. It's just aggressive peek-a-boo.
Edit: Edited to mostly clarify! Though it's a shame you're on Pact. We could'a been friends in murder and mayhem. :'( Life is so cruel!
Lol. Sometimes life is unfair.0 -
AuraNebula✭✭✭✭✭
Noone is asking for the class to change, but there should be an effective counter to stealth. Magelight takes a skillslot, so not every player would use it anyways. Stealth would still be stealth, but some players would counter it.AuraNebula wrote: »Personally I feel stealthing isn't that wrong a mechanic. But players should not be able to gank and then re-stealth and re-attack, and I feel stealth detection should be unlimited. Having magelight activated should show ALL stealthers, whereever and however far they are away. As if you are looking with eyes that can see everything. This would make overall combat much more fair.
If stealth detection was unlimited then there would be no point in using stealth.
If we are getting rid of a class identifying abilities let's get rid of a sorcs shield and streak, templars breath of life and jabs, warden's Betty netch....
You see the point?
As it is now, the counter to stealth takes away a skillslot with nothing to show for it. And stealth should have a countermechanic, which at the moment it doesn't.
So you say there are no effective counter for stealth, then you go on to admit there are counters to stealth but you don't want to bother using them. Detect pots are also a viable option, but you don't want to use those either? These counters do work because I use them all the time, and I always find nightblades.
Making everyone give up a class because you can not be bothered to counter sounds more of a "you" issue than a nightblade issue.
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dem0n1k✭✭✭✭✭
✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »The result of having a class of characters who can lurk invisibly and kill opponents who don't have a chance to defend themselves is empty zones full of invisible characters. It kills PvP, such as it is.
Yet, here we are 7 years on in a game that has had Nightblades with cloak & PVP is still played. Heavily nerfed Nightblade s that used to be way stronger than they are now. There is always a chance to defend yourself.. sometimes it just has to be pro-active rather than reactive.
Personally, I use anti-stealth poisons on my backbar weapon most of the time. With mSorc, curse, streak & mines are all effective. On my Necro I use the totem.
I'm OK with the change of name to Nightblade City though.. even though it's gonna make NB egos explode with delight! lol
NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.0 -
Malpheus_Prime✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »
That is the flaw.
Enough little pains and people will stop playing.
/quote]
Buddy, I think PvP isn't for you if you think this far into the thread that people should ever leave you alone for anything...
No one will kill you in a dungeon or overland, cyrodill is for people to TRY TO KILL YOU. Kitchen and heat.0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seems like PVP can't even get a couple zones without complaints from PVE only players. Let a couple zones be different. There is already an abundance of PVE play. Thank you for reading. Now time to go gank quest locations and players busy fighting bosses.
Ganking is not PvP, however much some may claim that.Edited by FlopsyPrince on July 19, 2021 3:01AMPC
PS4/PS53 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭It seems to me there's a disconnect about the point of PvP.
Is the point just to kill other players, or is the point to COMPETE with other players?
I have always assumed the point was competition, but when I see threads like this, with people defending mechanics that specifically prevent competition, I'm forced to wonder.
Ask yourself, would it be fun to play a game of basketball if the first basket wins and one team gets to play while the other is required to stand still and not do anything?Exploring Tamriel since 1994.4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »It seems to me there's a disconnect about the point of PvP.
Is the point just to kill other players, or is the point to COMPETE with other players?
I have always assumed the point was competition, but when I see threads like this, with people defending mechanics that specifically prevent competition, I'm forced to wonder.
Ask yourself, would it be fun to play a game of basketball if the first basket wins and one team gets to play while the other is required to stand still and not do anything?
No, it's more like watching a game of basketball where one of the team chooses to stand still, not react, and then cries when they're scored against.
The point of PvP varies based on the game mode. With that in mind, ESO's PvP is often objective based. Eliminating hostile players is almost always a component of securing those objectives (either to ensure victory, or to prevent defeat.) So, yeah, killing other players is the goal, at least when playing by the rules.
In the IC, killing hostile mobs and other players are both valid scoring methods, so, again, yeah, the point is to kill your opposing players, not get into a friendly pickup game of B-ball in the Memorial district with people you're currently at war with.6 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »It seems to me there's a disconnect about the point of PvP.
Is the point just to kill other players, or is the point to COMPETE with other players?
I have always assumed the point was competition, but when I see threads like this, with people defending mechanics that specifically prevent competition, I'm forced to wonder.
Ask yourself, would it be fun to play a game of basketball if the first basket wins and one team gets to play while the other is required to stand still and not do anything?
No, it's more like watching a game of basketball where one of the team chooses to stand still, not react, and then cries when they're scored against.
The point of PvP varies based on the game mode. With that in mind, ESO's PvP is often objective based. Eliminating hostile players is almost always a component of securing those objectives (either to ensure victory, or to prevent defeat.) So, yeah, killing other players is the goal, at least when playing by the rules.
In the IC, killing hostile mobs and other players are both valid scoring methods, so, again, yeah, the point is to kill your opposing players, not get into a friendly pickup game of B-ball in the Memorial district with people you're currently at war with.
Explain how one can CHOOSE to detect an invisible ambusher? Sure, there are abilities you can use to reveal invisible foes, but you have to know they're there in the first place. If it's an ambush, you DON'T... and there's no way to keep such things up 100% of the time... if you even have access to them.
Either way, the point of the ambush is to prevent the opposition having a chance to respond. You don't want a battle, you just want a kill. You don't want the competition.Exploring Tamriel since 1994.2 -
coletas✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »It seems to me there's a disconnect about the point of PvP.
Is the point just to kill other players, or is the point to COMPETE with other players?
I have always assumed the point was competition, but when I see threads like this, with people defending mechanics that specifically prevent competition, I'm forced to wonder.
Ask yourself, would it be fun to play a game of basketball if the first basket wins and one team gets to play while the other is required to stand still and not do anything?
No, it's more like watching a game of basketball where one of the team chooses to stand still, not react, and then cries when they're scored against.
The point of PvP varies based on the game mode. With that in mind, ESO's PvP is often objective based. Eliminating hostile players is almost always a component of securing those objectives (either to ensure victory, or to prevent defeat.) So, yeah, killing other players is the goal, at least when playing by the rules.
In the IC, killing hostile mobs and other players are both valid scoring methods, so, again, yeah, the point is to kill your opposing players, not get into a friendly pickup game of B-ball in the Memorial district with people you're currently at war with.
Explain how one can CHOOSE to detect an invisible ambusher? Sure, there are abilities you can use to reveal invisible foes, but you have to know they're there in the first place. If it's an ambush, you DON'T... and there's no way to keep such things up 100% of the time... if you even have access to them.
Either way, the point of the ambush is to prevent the opposition having a chance to respond. You don't want a battle, you just want a kill. You don't want the competition.
Stack impen, +30k hp, always shield on, traps on (fighters, undaunted rune etc), slot radiant magelight, if cps reduce damage while cced, increased potion enchants with infused jewelry (you can even have both in one pot.. permaimovable +permadetection..
Is very fun).
There are TONS of things u can do for prevent ganking, but the most important... If you have less than 30k health, dont be stand still4 -
NagualV✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »It seems to me there's a disconnect about the point of PvP.
Is the point just to kill other players, or is the point to COMPETE with other players?
I have always assumed the point was competition, but when I see threads like this, with people defending mechanics that specifically prevent competition, I'm forced to wonder.
Ask yourself, would it be fun to play a game of basketball if the first basket wins and one team gets to play while the other is required to stand still and not do anything?
No, it's more like watching a game of basketball where one of the team chooses to stand still, not react, and then cries when they're scored against.
The point of PvP varies based on the game mode. With that in mind, ESO's PvP is often objective based. Eliminating hostile players is almost always a component of securing those objectives (either to ensure victory, or to prevent defeat.) So, yeah, killing other players is the goal, at least when playing by the rules.
In the IC, killing hostile mobs and other players are both valid scoring methods, so, again, yeah, the point is to kill your opposing players, not get into a friendly pickup game of B-ball in the Memorial district with people you're currently at war with.
Explain how one can CHOOSE to detect an invisible ambusher?
By assuming there is always one present.....6