Pelinals wrath < pelinals aptitude

Excelsus

I agree if the ultimate plan is to merge weapon and spell damage the old Pelinal set becomes redundant, I like the idea of Pelinals Wrath as a powerful, cursed solo set. But it needs some tweaking... stacks should persist for 30 to 60 seconds or until out of combat to line up with the bloodlust though that could have obvious issues with the many stuck in combat bugs in pve pvp. I see it as a set that wants to be for Arenas and Dungeons but falls flat on bosses which is where it is most needed.

Stx

Literally the only thing old pelinals was good for was hybridizing your jewelry enchants and mundus stone if you used warrior or apprentice. Everything else in the game has been made hybrid including many set bonuses, weapon traits, passives from armor and guilds, etc.

There are many other sets better for hybrids than old pelinals.

I do agree though that the new set has no purpose. It's basically only good for grinding overland mobs which you can do with any set.

adriant1978

This is bringing back bad memories of when they messed with Queen's Elegance and ruined my heavy attack build.

Bald_templar

Destroying a casual fun set and introducing an annoying health micromanagement set…the old pelinal is fun because it provides true feelings of class identity (which also suggests the stam-bow/dw-vigor and mag-inferno-shield meta is just soooo boring). The old pelinal set makes overland questing so much more enjoyable and immersive (from the class/hybird skills). If you really want to change this set without introducing a new set, please make more class abilities scale of the highest stat. (One still need to build pen and crit to make it strong.)

Now what is this new pelinal? Give us an explanation please. Why do you have to change it? Is it over powered on certain classes? @ZOS_Gilliam

stefj68

they need to merge the glyph of magikal harm and physical harm into one.
otherwise you are almost 500-1k behind on wd or sd

Trixterion

You see, the whole point of Old Pelinal was to bump as much one side of your damage and then equalize the difference for other side, but technically from now we can have 3/3/1 setup and since new sets come with dual bonuses, damm even Deadly comes with 18% to ALL dot damage, we can from the next patch with a little of creativity make a full hybrid build with fully equal stats without Pelinal and have both crit and damage bonuses as well

Luke_Flamesword

I play my hybrid on dragonknight with easy access to minor and major brutality - it buffs my weapon damage from 3k to 5k and with old Pellinal I can have both weapon and spell damage at 5k. With just double bonus sets I won't be even close to that.

Camelord

Pelinal's wrath is op.. for some content. Thrassian with pelinal's wrath is just free stats in solo arenas. You only need to heal 10% of your hp to survive (all stacks drop on 10 sec without a kill) with my magplar i was getting a 23k shield on kill, i had 15k hp bc of thrassian but the constant flow of mob turned this hp pool in a 38k pool with a free 2k spell damage (before modifiers). Healing 10% of your hp every second is easy pn most classes (nb sorc plars easiest)

TheUndeadAmulet

I wouldn't be surprised if ZOS kept this change then introduced a mythic in the next patch which did what pelinals did but better, like maybe equalizing all stam/mag stats (except for recovery and pools). But then again, why would they make this change a patch beforehand and annoy a bunch of people?

The direction ZOS has been going, it seems that they want to make hybridization between stamina and magicka a lot more viable, which would make pelinals mostly obsolete making the changes justified. Of course, this would require a complete and thorough shift towards hybridization of stats, which hasn't happened because major/minor sorcery/brutality/savagery/prophecy and the jewelry enchants are all split.

I feel like ZOS really jumped the gun on this change, the new set is just another garbage bin craftable that nobody will actually use, and pelinals as it stood before still served plenty of use.

Brrrofski

I didn't use the set, so personally don't care.

But why touch a set that some people used?

There are plenty of sets that I honestly think nobody uses. Couldn't they have put the new version of this on one of them, if they wanted this set in there?

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

shrekt4303 wrote: »

How short sited everyone is. You want that set to be the only thing used in hybrid builds? Id rather see some variety

I'm not sure I understand how removing options is giving variety. If anything, it's taking away variety.

If this change were happening in a vacuum, it would be a huge nerf, but since it is not it is more complicated.
1. Armor weights provides hybrid stats
2. Weapons provide hybrid stats
3. Any race with damage provides hybrid stats.
4. More and more sets are made hybrid every patch.

You will now have to make a conscious effort not to hybrid, so in that environment, old Pelinal's was absolute. Keep in mind old Pelinal's also provided nothing for non-hybrids, nor did it boost overall hybrid damage, it simply balanced the lower stat.

Chilly-McFreeze

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

[Keep in mind old Pelinal's also provided nothing for non-hybrids,

And the issue with that is? There are hundreds of sets in the game that serves purpose for "pure" builds. No shame in having 1 especially for hybirds. Or am I wrong?

nor did it boost overall hybrid damage, it simply balanced the lower stat.

Of course it boosted the overall hybrid damage. If you went for raising both stats by themselves you ended up with mediocre stats.
With pelinals it's easy peasy to invest only into weapon dmg (sets, glyphs, mundus),pbut a [snip] of modifiers on it until you reach 6k wpn dmgand get free spell dmg on top.
So yes, your damage was higher if you build that way. See it as free 2k spell dmg.

Sure, new ways open up but I have yet to see if those tiny changes can outperform my current "classic hybrid".
Biggest issue are the still split-up jewel glyph and that most sets aren't hybridized. Most buff arent either. Not to start about skills per se (dawnbreaker). Changed armor passives are neat but only a drop on a hot stone.

Briarheart was my go to combo with pelinals. Now I have to use NMA with the cost increase and miss out on free healing.
However, Haarpooners with pelinals, NMA and whatever on my hybrid could be still good. Have to do some tests.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Tyreal1974

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

[Keep in mind old Pelinal's also provided nothing for non-hybrids,

And the issue with that is? There are hundreds of sets in the game that serves purpose for "pure" builds. No shame in having 1 especially for hybirds. Or am I wrong?

nor did it boost overall hybrid damage, it simply balanced the lower stat.

Of course it boosted the overall hybrid damage. If you went for raising both stats by themselves you ended up with mediocre stats.
With pelinals it's easy peasy to invest only into weapon dmg (sets, glyphs, mundus),pbut a [snip] of modifiers on it until you reach 6k wpn dmgand get free spell dmg on top.
So yes, your damage was higher if you build that way. See it as free 2k spell dmg.

Sure, new ways open up but I have yet to see if those tiny changes can outperform my current "classic hybrid".
Biggest issue are the still split-up jewel glyph and that most sets aren't hybridized. Most buff arent either. Not to start about skills per se (dawnbreaker). Changed armor passives are neat but only a drop on a hot stone.

Briarheart was my go to combo with pelinals. Now I have to use NMA with the cost increase and miss out on free healing.
However, Haarpooners with pelinals, NMA and whatever on my hybrid could be still good. Have to do some tests.

Exactly this...thank you for this response! Imagine if a popular set like Mother's Sorrow or Tzogvin's Warband was gutted, rehashed, and rebranded to become more hybridized for people that like to use a hybrid playstyle. The outcry would be deafening and the forums would be flooded with complaints! But because this set became popular with a small niche group of players, which somehow made someone b***hurt, Pelnial's Aptitude is getting turned into Pelinial's "Cursed" Wrath. And, if for some reason the new stats being tested were that important to be added to the game, I still think the changes to this set would more fit in with the Whitestrake's Retribution set just by the current name connotations alone. This is a nine traits set that is being messed with after all. I thought the idea of nine trait crafted sets was for them to be on par with end game sets. The new changes do not seem to me to be on par with other end game sets that have become the popular.

Also, I still do not understand why a person would wear an equipment set that would cause damage, and I have not seen any explanation why I would equip my character with equipment that causes damage to them. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think there is another equipment set in the game that causes damage to the user when being used. I really do not care if the damage is considered to be so small as to be easily healed through and, in my opinion, it's the idea that someone felt like there should be this piece of cursed equipment that damages the user that I do not agree with. I think more people should be asking this question... Is this just the beginning of a whole new series of new sets that damages the user, cause weakness, or decreases stats? And why does the content creators feel like we need to damage or hinder our characters when wearing useful/powerful equipment.

[edited to remove quote]

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@Chilly-McFreeze
Okay let's look at what pelinals+briarheart gives you.

Let's also assume you are a dark elf with food that perfectly balances mag and stamina=258 s and w damage

Briarheart=2 line of w.crit, 1 line of stamina, and 450 w.damage.

Pelinals=1 line of health, 1 line stam recovery, 1 like of mag recovery, and balancing the to highest stat

3 weapon damage enchants(174×3)=522w

7 pieces of medium(14% increase in weapon damage)=172.2w

This means you have a total 1402 weapon damage with pelinals mirroring spell damage.

Now let's compare this to pts.
Pelinals= 129 s and w. damage, 1487 pen. 129 s and w. damage, and 1000 s and w. damage(1258 s and w damage)

Diamonds victory=129 s and w. damage, 657 crit, 129 s and w. damage, 437 s and w damage.(695 s and w damage)

One weapon damage enchant=174w

One spell damage enchants=174s

One prismatic enchant=0

New med armor=14% of s and w damage(333.9 s and w damage)

This means that you have a total of 2718 weapon and spell damage, over double what you had with briarheart and pelinals in live.

universal_wrath

Camelord wrote: »

Pelinal's wrath is op.. for some content. Thrassian with pelinal's wrath is just free stats in solo arenas. You only need to heal 10% of your hp to survive (all stacks drop on 10 sec without a kill) with my magplar i was getting a 23k shield on kill, i had 15k hp bc of thrassian but the constant flow of mob turned this hp pool in a 38k pool with a free 2k spell damage (before modifiers). Healing 10% of your hp every second is easy pn most classes (nb sorc plars easiest)

Yea, i think a lot of people have pointed out that new pelinal is good as long as you have adds to kill with or without boss fight. But as soon as you get to boss fight were no adds spawn or on 1-3 spawn every other minute or health percentage, it is bad. Have you tried doing it on vetreshan? Someone did try it I think and said it was useless on last boss, even on fungul grotto 1 it is useless for 3/4 bosses.

universal_wrath

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze
Okay let's look at what pelinals+briarheart gives you.

Let's also assume you are a dark elf with food that perfectly balances mag and stamina=258 s and w damage

Briarheart=2 line of w.crit, 1 line of stamina, and 450 w.damage.

Pelinals=1 line of health, 1 line stam recovery, 1 like of mag recovery, and balancing the to highest stat

3 weapon damage enchants(174×3)=522w

7 pieces of medium(14% increase in weapon damage)=172.2w

This means you have a total 1402 weapon damage with pelinals mirroring spell damage.

Now let's compare this to pts.
Pelinals= 129 s and w. damage, 1487 pen. 129 s and w. damage, and 1000 s and w. damage(1258 s and w damage)

Diamonds victory=129 s and w. damage, 657 crit, 129 s and w. damage, 437 s and w damage.(695 s and w damage)

One weapon damage enchant=174w

One spell damage enchants=174s

One prismatic enchant=0

New med armor=14% of s and w damage(333.9 s and w damage)

This means that you have a total of 2718 weapon and spell damage, over double what you had with briarheart and pelinals in live.

That is all good if you have pelinal active. When it is important during boss fight, it is not, or maybe active 30-50 of the time. You rarely have boss fights with consistant flood of adds to keep pelinial wrath active.

If they duration of the buff were to be 1 min instead of 10 secs, it will make more viable since it require a kill and just a hit to be active like briarheart. Thus give you time to move from 1 point of adds to another point of adds or boss fight. It will even help when boss only spawn adds every x time, or if fighting adds with 1mil damage and you still have the buff active.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

universal_wrath wrote: »

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze
Okay let's look at what pelinals+briarheart gives you.

Let's also assume you are a dark elf with food that perfectly balances mag and stamina=258 s and w damage

Briarheart=2 line of w.crit, 1 line of stamina, and 450 w.damage.

Pelinals=1 line of health, 1 line stam recovery, 1 like of mag recovery, and balancing the to highest stat

3 weapon damage enchants(174×3)=522w

7 pieces of medium(14% increase in weapon damage)=172.2w

This means you have a total 1402 weapon damage with pelinals mirroring spell damage.

Now let's compare this to pts.
Pelinals= 129 s and w. damage, 1487 pen. 129 s and w. damage, and 1000 s and w. damage(1258 s and w damage)

Diamonds victory=129 s and w. damage, 657 crit, 129 s and w. damage, 437 s and w damage.(695 s and w damage)

One weapon damage enchant=174w

One spell damage enchants=174s

One prismatic enchant=0

New med armor=14% of s and w damage(333.9 s and w damage)

This means that you have a total of 2718 weapon and spell damage, over double what you had with briarheart and pelinals in live.

That is all good if you have pelinal active. When it is important during boss fight, it is not, or maybe active 30-50 of the time. You rarely have boss fights with consistant flood of adds to keep pelinial wrath active.

If they duration of the buff were to be 1 min instead of 10 secs, it will make more viable since it require a kill and just a hit to be active like briarheart. Thus give you time to move from 1 point of adds to another point of adds or boss fight. It will even help when boss only spawn adds every x time, or if fighting adds with 1mil damage and you still have the buff active.

I typically solo arenas and 4 man content, a set that builds up damage(plus a huge damage shield) will utterly lay waste to that content. But agree that it will not be great everywhere, just like relequin and siroria aren't good everywhere. In single target fights, you need to use something like mechanical acuity or new moon instead.

Regarding the stack, 10 minutes is would be broken. I think something like 30 seconds to a minute would be far more balanced. That or you lose a single stack if you have not killed a target in ten seconds.

oterWitz

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Regarding the stack, 10 minutes is would be broken. I think something like 30 seconds to a minute would be far more balanced. That or you lose a single stack if you have not killed a target in ten seconds.

That's a good idea, hemorrhaging stacks rather than loosing them all would make this set much better. That might push it too far into being OP, but it could be correspondingly tweaked back down. My hopes aren't high though after they didn't touch it in 7.1.2.

gariondavey

Any acknowledgement of our concerns @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ?

Chilly-McFreeze

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Okay let's look at what pelinals+briarheart gives you.

Let's also assume you are a dark elf with food that perfectly balances mag and stamina=258 s and w damage

Briarheart=2 line of w.crit, 1 line of stamina, and 450 w.damage.

Pelinals=1 line of health, 1 line stam recovery, 1 like of mag recovery, and balancing the to highest stat

3 weapon damage enchants(174×3)=522w

7 pieces of medium(14% increase in weapon damage)=172.2w

This means you have a total 1402 weapon damage with pelinals mirroring spell damage.

Now let's compare this to pts.
Pelinals= 129 s and w. damage, 1487 pen. 129 s and w. damage, and 1000 s and w. damage(1258 s and w damage)

Diamonds victory=129 s and w. damage, 657 crit, 129 s and w. damage, 437 s and w damage.(695 s and w damage)

One weapon damage enchant=174w

One spell damage enchants=174s

One prismatic enchant=0

New med armor=14% of s and w damage(333.9 s and w damage)

This means that you have a total of 2718 weapon and spell damage, over double what you had with briarheart and pelinals in live.

No need to calculate it by hands if you can just hop over to UESP Build Editor. It isn't as bad as I expected yet it's still an unnecessary change that devalues some unique build ideas. I have to agree with the idea that as a new set with longer lasting effect this would be great, yet I can't get over the inconsideration for the playerbase yet again.

I changed Briarheart's for NMA, changed 2 jewelry glyphs from 2x weapon dmg to 1x prismatic recovery and 1x spell dmg.
Gained crit dmg and penetration.
What I lost from weapon crit I kinda gained in spell crit.
Dmg stats roughly the same unbuffed thanks to 3 lines of dmg on those sets (unbuffed). Buffed it's higher of course.
Still lost 200 regen each (thanks to another useless CP change) + the 5% increased costs.
Lost 1k health + the off heal from BH - and got the DoT and the shield instead.

Not sure how this will play out. I like my sets always useful and not loosing out on whole main effect during certain encounters. So what gives?

Maybe if I swap out the monster set for a mythic like Harpooner's or Thrassian? Also not sure what to make of the CP changes.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Okay let's look at what pelinals+briarheart gives you.

Let's also assume you are a dark elf with food that perfectly balances mag and stamina=258 s and w damage

Briarheart=2 line of w.crit, 1 line of stamina, and 450 w.damage.

Pelinals=1 line of health, 1 line stam recovery, 1 like of mag recovery, and balancing the to highest stat

3 weapon damage enchants(174×3)=522w

7 pieces of medium(14% increase in weapon damage)=172.2w

This means you have a total 1402 weapon damage with pelinals mirroring spell damage.

Now let's compare this to pts.
Pelinals= 129 s and w. damage, 1487 pen. 129 s and w. damage, and 1000 s and w. damage(1258 s and w damage)

Diamonds victory=129 s and w. damage, 657 crit, 129 s and w. damage, 437 s and w damage.(695 s and w damage)

One weapon damage enchant=174w

One spell damage enchants=174s

One prismatic enchant=0

New med armor=14% of s and w damage(333.9 s and w damage)

This means that you have a total of 2718 weapon and spell damage, over double what you had with briarheart and pelinals in live.

No need to calculate it by hands if you can just hop over to UESP Build Editor. It isn't as bad as I expected yet it's still an unnecessary change that devalues some unique build ideas. I have to agree with the idea that as a new set with longer lasting effect this would be great, yet I can't get over the inconsideration for the playerbase yet again.

I changed Briarheart's for NMA, changed 2 jewelry glyphs from 2x weapon dmg to 1x prismatic recovery and 1x spell dmg.
Gained crit dmg and penetration.
What I lost from weapon crit I kinda gained in spell crit.
Dmg stats roughly the same unbuffed thanks to 3 lines of dmg on those sets (unbuffed). Buffed it's higher of course.
Still lost 200 regen each (thanks to another useless CP change) + the 5% increased costs.
Lost 1k health + the off heal from BH - and got the DoT and the shield instead.

Not sure how this will play out. I like my sets always useful and not loosing out on whole main effect during certain encounters. So what gives?

Maybe if I swap out the monster set for a mythic like Harpooner's or Thrassian? Also not sure what to make of the CP changes.

1. My phone is apparently allergic to build calculator, it would have been nice.
2. Something that has helped me tremendously when I solo has been the death dealers fleet. It effectively gives me 2k of health, mag, and stam, and hold up well from encounter to encounter. If sustain is an issue I'd run shackle breaker instead of NMA.

Duke_Falcon

I used this set effectively in pvp to run stam damage builds that used the mag pool for heals. It was very effective for that.

This change is going to ruin this set. No way in pvp are you going to rack up kills that fast. No way, and if you could the damage from that many players around you coming in on you w/ the damage from the set is so dumb, insta-death.

I saw in another thread where it was suggested to make the 5 pc have all skills scale to the highest of your weapon/spell damage and resource pools, the same way that Ultimates do, except for skills instead. That would be a great change to this set without losing its current identity.