Update 31 Combat Preview

Fantalior

This 60% PVP damage nerf is the height of ignorance, everyone is already walking around as turtles who hardly get any damage, one should rather be able to do 60% damage in PVP. How do you justify this change? It should be possible to eliminate an opponent without 2 other players, that's so sad and reduces the variety in this game, as it is no longer worth betting on damage.

Grandchamp1989

karthrag_inak wrote: »

This game has too many changes. Fundamental combat rules change constantly, and not for the better. It's like every few months someone else's fundamental combat philosophy gets followed, and everything changes.

This isn't fun. It's antagonizing.

So. Much. This.

This is a game that targets adults (18+) - many with jobs/family/hobbies.

Having to re learn the game every 3 months, when they completely change established gameplay, and overhaul skills/sets/CP etc is extremely frustrating (for me atleast) to keep track of.

The sledgehammer approach to balance is rough - going one extreme in one patch, and another extreme the other patch..

People only have to so much time to re-farm gear, gold it out, re-learn new rotations and combo's, pay for race changes to stay meta and testing skills/CP.

Usually other games takes the cautious approach to balance "+2 dmg here, -1 armor there"

But if ESO was a shooter game I feel like one patch the soldier class would have a rifle the next patch he would have a bazooka and the third patch he would have a pistol.

What I'm saying is that I have a hard time to keep up with this...

ADarklore

I think the one thing that stuck out from those notes is, "adding more slottable..." when we don't have ENOUGH room for the slottables we already have!

We need our CP to go to things we CAN use, not having leftover CP that we just stick into something we'll never use because we don't have enough slots. Otherwise, beyond a certain point, CP is pointless and we're back to having no reward for long-term players. Just giving us CP but not a way to use it... might as well add the CP cap again.

Also, don't give me the, "but you CAN use it, you just have to remove and slot a different star" answer either... because you know as well as I do that 99% of the players are not going to waste their time doing this. Giving us the ability to use CP and then putting it behind a micro-managed system is akin to denying us the ability to use them, just making it less obvious.

Abyssmol

ZOS take note. Everyone in the forum is complaining about the increase of damage mitigation. If the change goes through, I for one will start avoiding Necros. They will become close to unkillable. The problem I see right now is not the raw damage, but the damage from stealth. You should look into that instead of increasing damage mitigation.

Jaraal

Abyssmol wrote: »

ZOS take note

Take note that ZOS is not interested in what players are speculating about these changes. They are apparently going on some arbitrary "TTK" data they are monitoring. Their concern is how long it takes you to die, not how that death occurrs.

Sorbin

ZOS, it should be abundantly clear from this thread alone that, once again, you're advocating for what is a wild, fire-from-the-hip balance change that's going to accomplish nothing but to antagonize your player base by throwing the whole table over and upending the game. People are plenty tanky in this patch. The only concern are several outlier builds. Here's how you fix them:

1) Buff Crit Resist. Wearing a full set of Impen without Resilience slotted currently puts you at 2200 Crit Resist. This amount should be increased to 2800-3000. Slotting Resilience on top of that should be a bonus, balanced by the opportunity cost of not being able to slot a healing CP, a mitigation CP, or a damage CP that could replace it.

2) Revert the changes on proc sets and make them subject to RNG again. No one complained about damage procs when they were random and inconsistent. Even at their old damage values before scaling was introduced, they weren't worth slotting in PvP because you couldn't create a burst or sustained pressure with them. This entire problem of damage procs, and now the 1-shot builds that have followed them, only came to be when people could be certain the procs were going to fire. If memory serves, the reasoning given for removing RNG from the procs in the first place was to boost performance. I think I can safely speak for basically the entire PvP community when I say that procs having % chance removed has not resulted in any discernible increase in performance whatsoever; in fact, it's largely worse.

There are too many games coming out this year to keep doing these bipolar balance changes, including PvP-focused MMOs that actually show promise. Don't say your customers didn't try to warn you if you choose not to listen them, or if you're unable to separate the signal from the noise.

biminirwb17_ESO

Will mudcrabs still break stealth?

Fried_Fowl

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

Please Disable Recoveries while in Shadow Cloak like Mist Form for fairness!

Full Details Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580542/shadow-cloak-vs-mist-form-vs-streak/p1?new=1

[snip] Mist form allows you to be invincible for the duration, streak allows you to get far away fast, cloak on the other hand has a 2 second duration and doesnt work a good 80% of the time and almost everything gets you out of it! Why on earth would they disable recovery on cloak 😂 it's the thing that makes a night blade a night blade! I wish people would quit trying to change the identity of classes just because they [snip] at the abilities that make the class what it's supposed to be!

[snip] Mist Form doesn't make you invincible it makes you a punching bag for the duration, Streak just doesn't allow you to get away fast it allows you to jump to the moon to recover and then jump back if you choose, Cloak is a 3 second duration not a 2 second duration and works 800% better when paired with Shadow Image, Why wouldn't you disable recoveries during and for a few seconds after cloak ends from using Shadow Cloak? 😂 and I wish people would quit trying to protect with bias the easy mode classes they play!

Eatmyface wrote: »

Nerf cloak. Nerf it into the ground and never bring it back. It’s the single most broken skill in the game, even if “sometimes it doesn’t work” [snip]

Why doesn’t it have a ramping cost increase like streak?
Why do skills like camo hunter cost 4360 stamina AND IT DOESN’T EVEN WORK ANYWAY?
Why is the only viable option to drop (or wait for a 45s cool down), for example tri pots, for a detect pot that means you have 15s to kill that player while they run and dodge and try to hide. Meanwhile you’ve lost a ton of sustain in the process and the 5 other people on you can get an easy kill.

How good would it be if, once in combat, you couldn’t re-enter invisibility. That way the …. relying on cloak only gets one chance to attack that person who doesn’t know they’re there. It’s still more than the person being attacked gets.

[snip]

I nearly agree 100% with nerfing cloak into the ground but instead want it so nerfed into the ground it pops outside of the other end of the earth and does a backwards Super Nova FF7 style outside of our galaxy by not only disabling recoveries when Shadow Cloak is used but also for a certain amount of seconds right after it wears off so they can't hide in sneak and recover to reset the fight which would provide some counter play in giving us time to find and punish them if they decide to stick around to reset the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTc9sLmOR0A

NagualV

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

Please Disable Recoveries while in Shadow Cloak like Mist Form for fairness!

Full Details Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580542/shadow-cloak-vs-mist-form-vs-streak/p1?new=1

[snip] Mist form allows you to be invincible for the duration, streak allows you to get far away fast, cloak on the other hand has a 2 second duration and doesnt work a good 80% of the time and almost everything gets you out of it! Why on earth would they disable recovery on cloak 😂 it's the thing that makes a night blade a night blade! I wish people would quit trying to change the identity of classes just because they [snip] at the abilities that make the class what it's supposed to be!

[snip] Mist Form doesn't make you invincible it makes you a punching bag for the duration, Streak just doesn't allow you to get away fast it allows you to jump to the moon to recover and then jump back if you choose, Cloak is a 3 second duration not a 2 second duration and works 800% better when paired with Shadow Image, Why wouldn't you disable recoveries during and for a few seconds after cloak ends from using Shadow Cloak? 😂 and I wish people would quit trying to protect with bias the easy mode classes they play!

Eatmyface wrote: »

Nerf cloak. Nerf it into the ground and never bring it back. It’s the single most broken skill in the game, even if “sometimes it doesn’t work” [snip]

Why doesn’t it have a ramping cost increase like streak?
Why do skills like camo hunter cost 4360 stamina AND IT DOESN’T EVEN WORK ANYWAY?
Why is the only viable option to drop (or wait for a 45s cool down), for example tri pots, for a detect pot that means you have 15s to kill that player while they run and dodge and try to hide. Meanwhile you’ve lost a ton of sustain in the process and the 5 other people on you can get an easy kill.

How good would it be if, once in combat, you couldn’t re-enter invisibility. That way the …. relying on cloak only gets one chance to attack that person who doesn’t know they’re there. It’s still more than the person being attacked gets.

[snip]

I nearly agree 100% with nerfing cloak into the ground but instead want it so nerfed into the ground it pops outside of the other end of the earth and does a backwards Super Nova FF7 style outside of our galaxy by not only disabling recoveries when Shadow Cloak is used but also for a certain amount of seconds right after it wears off so they can't hide in sneak and recover to reset the fight which would provide some counter play in giving us time to find and punish them if they decide to stick around to reset the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTc9sLmOR0A

Just curious, what class do you play/main fried fowl?

Lapin_Logic

Fixed it for you below @ZOS_Gilliam

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

[snip]

In all seriousness, Why is ESO becomming more and more like 2 Completely different games, Why is a PVP Chad a goon in a dungeon and why is a raid spec legend a wimp in Cyrodiil?

We would all like to be great at every aspect of the game, but RNG says "You Did want another Maelstrom Sword and Shield right???, oh and just wait another 20 hours for Remains Silent to give you another Sithis shoulder instead of that Lead you wanted XD"

It's no joke when you have 30 characters over 2 servers and you use your transmutes/gold mats on a set that becomes trash in usually 5 weeks.

[edited for bashing]

Lapin_Logic

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

"as well as Frost Staff’s ability to give the touch of cold death"

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!

Why not give Frost staff the Exact same damage as a Flame staff on top of some of the best and resource free CC's AND extra resists and a choice of what resource you would like to block with.

Because that wouldn't be broken at all, just as long as it fits with a small population of Role players lore about the colour of particle effect that comes out of a stick.

Lapin_Logic

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings!

so the base character takes 60% less overall damage, rather than 50%.

If the goal is to force "Armies" to fight "Armies" in the alliance war then just make Battle Spirit 90% so No individual can "1vX" a faction and win regardless of gear, not even Leonidis or William Wallace did that, and we are against 18 million "Heroes of Tamriel"

Lapin_Logic

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Will mudcrabs still break stealth?

I want to know if Imperial City mobs will still follow you 20 miles and see you through walls while you are cloaked

Lapin_Logic

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

by not only disabling recoveries when Shadow Cloak is used but also for a certain amount of seconds right after it wears off so they can't hide in sneak and recover to reset the fight which would provide some counter play in giving us time to find and punish them if they decide to stick around to reset the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTc9sLmOR0A

If they also make Heavy armor reduce your weapon damage by 50% and add 20% cost with a samina drain for walking because of how heavy and resrictive plate armour is and limit Light Armor to 1 damage shield because concentration spells in combat and make all Leather medium armor Sqeek when you walk, reducing your stealth ability while adding fatigue and swamp rash and make all Vampires combust when outdoors while Werewolves can only transform when Masa and Secunda are both Full and Bone colossus needs to have 60 corpses around it to transform then fair enough.

Lapin_Logic

Sorbin wrote: »

. People are plenty tanky in this patch. The only concern are several outlier builds.

1) Buff Crit Resist. Wearing a full set of Impen without Resilience slotted currently puts you at 2200 Crit Resist. This amount should be increased to 2800-3000.

No, We already had many years where Crit was a dead stat and Impen was mandatory on every PVP build, you already said people are plenty tanky, more or less every youtube build has 29-40k resists so nerfing crit is just a tiny part of the pvp community, plus there needs to be more than one way to burn a tank, either a glass cannon weapon damage build, a max pen build or a crit boost build, removing these are just buffing tanks even more leaving heards of turtles slowly bumping into each other waiting for their Balorg to reach max

5_RAGEsMW

People who choose to be tanky this patch are super tanky already we dont need more tank buffs. Enough with buffing tanks they've had three four years of playing a turtle with 40k hp and doing damage zerging small scalers. It has gotten so old and stale.

Skoomah

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings!

Today, the combat team would like to share what we’ve been working on since Update 30! While this update won’t have too many large-scale changes, there are a number of little things. We’d like to highlight a few of the more noteworthy changes in this post as well as talk about some behind the scenes work we’ve been doing.

Let’s start with something we’ve seen a lot of discussion on: Time to Kill (TTK) in Player versus Player environments. Compared to previous updates, the amount of damage is higher across the board than it was previously, but simultaneously, defensive power is lower too. This is mainly caused by two things: the balance standards that Champion Point 2.0 was held to in Update 29 where we introduced more choices between either offensive or defensive options, as well boosting up stats on fresh characters with the introduction of base Weapon and Spell Damage, and the base Maximum Resource adjustments from Update 30. Between these two, many builds are making more choices in improving their ability to deal or take damage while experiencing a sharper operational loss of the other. As many player builds lean towards dealing damage in PvP environments, this creates a situation where TTK lowers. While we’ve identified specifics, such as base stat adjustments, we wanted to stay focused on where the problem was felt, which was exclusively related to PvP. Our main adjustment in Update 31 will be to Battle Spirit and focusing on the damage taken portion, increasing it so the base character takes 60% less overall damage, rather than 50%. Aside from this and a few more specific, smaller adjustments, we’re still monitoring many of the moving parts (such as proc set scaling) and discussing measures we can take in future updates that won’t adversely affect parts of the game where problems aren’t as severe.

In relation to TTK and PvP in general, we’re also doing a substantial pass on player abilities, item sets, and passives in Update 31 in regard to how they operate with both Stealth and Invisibility. This pass focuses on trying to improve the rules on what abilities should and should not hit or remove Stealth or Invisibility on targets, as well as fixing some issues where Sneak attacks were stronger than intended in some areas. To clarify, Sneak attacks, or attacks made from the Hidden state while crouching, should only do the following:

• A guaranteed Critical Strike on one direct damage attack
• 275% bonus critical damage against monsters if it was a melee attack
• 40% bonus critical damage against monsters if it was a ranged attack
• Stun the target if it was a melee attack

In hopes to improve both the ability to utilize or distinctly deny and remove Stealth and Invisibility, we’re adjusting our rules to what player attacks should break these effects, or even attempt to try and hit them. Previously, this was handled purely on the ability level of these effects, like Shadow Cloak, leaving them very susceptible to breaking in a multitude of ways when complex and dynamic abilities were used against them. Now, we’re adjusting a significant amount of player-sourced attacks and effects to have rules applied to them, in addition to the rules built into abilities like Shadow Cloak, reaching a much more streamlined experience.

For player abilities, the only things that will break Stealth or Invisibility are direct damage, Crowd Controls such as stuns or immobilizes, or revealing effects such as Expert Hunter or Revealing Flare. Player Damage over Time abilities of any type will no longer remove targets from Stealth or Invisibility, but may still damage them depending on their source of attack. Area of Effect based Damage over Time will damage targets under these effects, but not remove the effects themselves. There will also now be a short window when entering Stealth or Invisibility, where player single target attacks made against you will no longer cancel the activation or strip the effect. On the other hand, we’ve better accounted for reveals or detections in these rule sets of Stealth and Invisibility, so attacks won’t miss as often as before when utilizing them. All in all, we hope this improves both using and fighting against Stealth and Invisibility in ESO by improving the consistency of the experiences so patterns and strategies may better evolve!

Much of our focus outside of the pass mentioned above has been on the back-end scripting of abilities and cleaning up the amount of information they have, making sure they use relevant technological advancements we’ve made in the recent years, rather than using older and less efficient systems. For example, removing errant data or finding better ways for one-off checks and validations to be done was a large focus here, while cleaning up inconsistencies in behavior or power along the way. Expect many little changes and bug fixes as a result of this such as improving Flame Skull’s damage bonus calculation, or minor tweaks to values like Essence Drain granting Major Mending for a full integer duration at all ranks.

One of the larger changes you’ll see from this pass are reworks for the Skilled Hunter passive, Expert Hunter and its morphs’ visual displays on enemies, and Prismatic Weapon enchants. Previously, all three of these effects were constantly validating themselves against massive lists to determine if your target was an Undead, Werewolf, or Vampire with very little pay off for the amount of extra weight they had. We’ve decided to retain the slayer of evil theme of Fighters Guild, but only have it active against players to improve performance while still getting the feel-good identity they have. Prismatic Weapon enchants, however, have been completely changed to better fit their theme of Tri Resource seen from the other Prismatic enchants. They now operate similarly to a Drain Life or Magicka weapon enchantment but grant all three resources!

Outside of behind the scenes work and minor adjustments, there’s a handful of larger changes or new introductions coming as well. We’re adding three new sub constellations to the Fitness tree filled with all new slotted stars! Their names are Wind Chaser, Survivor’s Spite, and Walking Fortress, with each focusing on unique aspects of core mechanics and actions. Speaking of passives, we’re also adjusting all player passives to grant hybrid versions of their stats, so things like Balanced Warrior will give Weapon and Spell Damage plus Armor, rather than Weapon Damage and Spell Resistance. In addition to this, we’re reworking a few older item sets that had an incredibly low amount of player engagement: Sithis’ Touch will focus on zipping around from successful battles quickly one after the other, Nikulas’s Heavy Armor will improve its ability to shrug off incoming attacks, and Crusader will receive a fitting shift to grant something more appropriate of an enabling bruiser. Likely the biggest adjustment to an existing set is to Pelinal’s Aptitude, which will be changed to Pelinal’s Wrath, which now focuses on the blood lust this hero of lore succumbed to in their legacy left in Tamriel! Finally, there will be some targeted buffs to niche areas of the game we currently feel are lacking: Two Handed’s ability to stick in melee encounters and offer comparable sustained damage in PvE, as well as Frost Staff’s ability to give the touch of cold death. Keep an eye out in the patch notes for some juicy buffs to two specific abilities!

The list of changes coming for Update 31 is quite long, but it’s built up from many little changes rather than huge ones, so our hope is it will be less disruptive than some of our more recent updates. We still look forward to hearing your feedback and discussion that comes from the upcoming PTS cycle based on the changes! Thanks for reading and see you in Tamriel.

Thank you Gilliam and the rest of the combat team for the effort, but when do you plan on releasing new PVP content and not just the 1,000th rework to skills or sets that completely changes the meta and how the game is played? New PVP content means a new map the size of cyrodiil or new PvP game modes or a new PvP zone. Or even the ability to just queue for Deathmatch in BGs, which by the way is not new content. PvP players in this game feel completely neglected and not listened to. The past 2 years of proc meta, turning off sets meta, and now crazy one shot builds that kill you from full to zero without even seeing animations has been a terrible experience. The community’s patience for this neglect and complete lack of new PvP content has run out for many folks.

Just so you know... if you don’t already... Cyrodiil is.a laggy mess. Imperial City is empty most times. Battlegrounds is full of PVE’ers that avoid fighting other players and just run from flag to flag or just run away from players to turn in relics. Those are the only game modes PVP’ers have and the experience in all three places are extremely low quality. And then you put on top of that very unenjoyable metas due to these reworks.

actosh

karthrag_inak wrote: »

This game has too many changes. Fundamental combat rules change constantly, and not for the better. It's like every few months someone else's fundamental combat philosophy gets followed, and everything changes.

This isn't fun. It's antagonizing.

It´s stupid, and it is a reason to take a break. u dont keep things fresh by turning around the game each 3 months.

VaranisArano

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Fixed it for you below @ZOS_Gilliam

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

[snip]

In all seriousness, Why is ESO becomming more and more like 2 Completely different games, Why is a PVP Chad a goon in a dungeon and why is a raid spec legend a wimp in Cyrodiil?

[edited for bashing]

In my experience, it's because PVP and PVE have entirely different fighting styles.

PVE has very predictable mechanics with enemies who move and attack in predictable ways at predictable times. PVE damage dealers focus on sustained, high damage because that's what works.

PVP is far more reactive, with enemies who attack, move, defend, and heal according to what you do. Eventually you can start to predict what different builds will do, but that takes a lot of experience. PVPers focus on pressure and then high burst combos because that's what works.

When you put a PVPer into a dungeon or a PVEer into an Imperial City fight, if neither switches mental gears from their usual set of tactics, they will both find themselves to be pretty ineffectual. The PVPer will burst through a mob, then find themselves chipping away at the boss who walls their burst with high health. The PVEer will wonder why their amazing damage does nothing to an opponent who's actively healing and defending themselves, then get shredded by a burst combo because they weren't actively defending themselves the way regular PVPers do.

You can even give them the proper gear for their role, but gear alone won't carry a player if they don't adopt the proper tactics to use it well.

Fundamentally, it's not something ZOS can fix with gameplay. It's just that PVE and PVP require different "meta" tactics. If you take those tactics over to a different section of the game where they don't apply, it's just not going to go well.

Luede

This 60% damage reduction only proves that you are not playing your own game

DTStormfox

I like where this is heading. I am just wondering why ZOS doesn't use the Battle Spirit passive more to implement a wider range of effects for PvP.

Lapin_Logic

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Fixed it for you below @ZOS_Gilliam

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

[snip]

In all seriousness, Why is ESO becomming more and more like 2 Completely different games, Why is a PVP Chad a goon in a dungeon and why is a raid spec legend a wimp in Cyrodiil?

[edited for bashing]

In my experience, it's because PVP and PVE have entirely different fighting styles.

PVE has very predictable mechanics with enemies who move and attack in predictable ways at predictable times. PVE damage dealers focus on sustained, high damage because that's what works.

PVP is far more reactive, with enemies who attack, move, defend, and heal according to what you do. Eventually you can start to predict what different builds will do, but that takes a lot of experience. PVPers focus on pressure and then high burst combos because that's what works.

When you put a PVPer into a dungeon or a PVEer into an Imperial City fight, if neither switches mental gears from their usual set of tactics, they will both find themselves to be pretty ineffectual. The PVPer will burst through a mob, then find themselves chipping away at the boss who walls their burst with high health. The PVEer will wonder why their amazing damage does nothing to an opponent who's actively healing and defending themselves, then get shredded by a burst combo because they weren't actively defending themselves the way regular PVPers do.

You can even give them the proper gear for their role, but gear alone won't carry a player if they don't adopt the proper tactics to use it well.

Fundamentally, it's not something ZOS can fix with gameplay. It's just that PVE and PVP require different "meta" tactics. If you take those tactics over to a different section of the game where they don't apply, it's just not going to go well.

Many many other games manage to have 1 fit be competitive both Vs CPU or Human enemies, Dark Souls for instance, you can be just as efective with a Destitute working the roly poly as you can with any other build so long as you play effectively.

ZOS is deliberately making more and more changes that prevent this

katorga

The intended and unintended consequences of the last patch are across the board. Reducing damage through a 20% increase in Battle Spirit damage reduction only targets one of them, and only indirectly. It will simply result in different imbalances.

Short answer is that last patch they put way too much penetration in the game, and way too many sources of +critical damage. The average player has zero armor, and effectively zero crit resist.

Add to that the terrible server performance, and you never really know what is actually functioning at any given instant. How do you balance when your foundation is based on sand?

Jameson18

Mr_Arce88 wrote: »

Also: "areas of the game we currently feel are lacking: Two Handed’s ability to stick in melee encounters and offer comparable sustained damage in PvE" 2H is strongest weapon in PvP, are you seriousely gonna buff it up more because it lacks in PvE? If you want to touch weapons, just give DW a proper Major Brutality like 2H has. That will give us a real choice of weapons, instead of locking every single class without native brutality sourcing to 2H...

This is sales speech for "we're about to nerf pvp d swing into the ground".

Wait to see what the notes say though I guess.

Jameson18

karthrag_inak wrote: »

This game has too many changes. Fundamental combat rules change constantly, and not for the better. It's like every few months someone else's fundamental combat philosophy gets followed, and everything changes.

This isn't fun. It's antagonizing.

This. Very much this.

My friends and I only started back in March 2020 and its already completely different. Its infuriating to rebuild all your toons every 3 months.

Also, what's with all the slottables? We don't need more slottable stars. We need passives. I'm seriously sitting around with nothing to spend CP on after 1200.

The attempts forward are basically multiple steps backward. All while what we were promised was better performance.

What ever happened to the "upgraded servers"?

VaranisArano

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Fixed it for you below @ZOS_Gilliam

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

[snip]

In all seriousness, Why is ESO becomming more and more like 2 Completely different games, Why is a PVP Chad a goon in a dungeon and why is a raid spec legend a wimp in Cyrodiil?

[edited for bashing]

In my experience, it's because PVP and PVE have entirely different fighting styles.

PVE has very predictable mechanics with enemies who move and attack in predictable ways at predictable times. PVE damage dealers focus on sustained, high damage because that's what works.

PVP is far more reactive, with enemies who attack, move, defend, and heal according to what you do. Eventually you can start to predict what different builds will do, but that takes a lot of experience. PVPers focus on pressure and then high burst combos because that's what works.

When you put a PVPer into a dungeon or a PVEer into an Imperial City fight, if neither switches mental gears from their usual set of tactics, they will both find themselves to be pretty ineffectual. The PVPer will burst through a mob, then find themselves chipping away at the boss who walls their burst with high health. The PVEer will wonder why their amazing damage does nothing to an opponent who's actively healing and defending themselves, then get shredded by a burst combo because they weren't actively defending themselves the way regular PVPers do.

You can even give them the proper gear for their role, but gear alone won't carry a player if they don't adopt the proper tactics to use it well.

Fundamentally, it's not something ZOS can fix with gameplay. It's just that PVE and PVP require different "meta" tactics. If you take those tactics over to a different section of the game where they don't apply, it's just not going to go well.

Many many other games manage to have 1 fit be competitive both Vs CPU or Human enemies, Dark Souls for instance, you can be just as efective with a Destitute working the roly poly as you can with any other build so long as you play effectively.

ZOS is deliberately making more and more changes that prevent this

Dark Souls is also designed to have the option to suddenly interject PVP into your difficult PVE content. ESO doesn't quite have the same mixed PVE/PVP gameplay except in Imperial City, and many PVEers struggle to adapt properly to that environment.

Somehow, I doubt that PVPers are going to start acting like NPCs. So the real question here is whether PVEers want their whole swath of the game to be redesigned to better prepare them for the sort of tactics used against other players.

I might be surprised, but I don't expect that would appeal to a lot of current PVE players.

Jaraal

Jameson18 wrote: »

What ever happened to the "upgraded servers"?

The terminology they used was "new servers," not "upgraded servers." They did state that the new servers would NOT improve performance. For all we know, they could have actually downgraded to new cheaper servers to save money, or perhaps have gotten less (or more) servers that could store the same amount of data. We may likely never know.

Fried_Fowl

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

by not only disabling recoveries when Shadow Cloak is used but also for a certain amount of seconds right after it wears off so they can't hide in sneak and recover to reset the fight which would provide some counter play in giving us time to find and punish them if they decide to stick around to reset the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTc9sLmOR0A

If they also make Heavy armor reduce your weapon damage by 50% and add 20% cost with a samina drain for walking because of how heavy and resrictive plate armour is and limit Light Armor to 1 damage shield because concentration spells in combat and make all Leather medium armor Sqeek when you walk, reducing your stealth ability while adding fatigue and swamp rash and make all Vampires combust when outdoors while Werewolves can only transform when Masa and Secunda are both Full and Bone colossus needs to have 60 corpses around it to transform then fair enough.

[snip] I do wonder why Light and Heavy armor have increased damage taken penalties per piece worn and medium armor don't as well as being naked has no increased damage taken penalty per piece not worn because you would think that not wearing Light or Heavy armor which you wear to protect your body from harm would be more susceptible to Martial and Magical attacks no? or at least give medium armor a increased damage taken to both Martial and Magical attack by 0.5% per piece worn and as for Shadow Cloak it should not only have recoveries disabled during stealth from Shadow Cloak but also for a certain amount of seconds after and a increased cost to cast if spamming the skill and that's on the line of fair but fair indeed!

[edited for baiting]

katorga

Jameson18 wrote: »

Mr_Arce88 wrote: »

Also: "areas of the game we currently feel are lacking: Two Handed’s ability to stick in melee encounters and offer comparable sustained damage in PvE" 2H is strongest weapon in PvP, are you seriousely gonna buff it up more because it lacks in PvE? If you want to touch weapons, just give DW a proper Major Brutality like 2H has. That will give us a real choice of weapons, instead of locking every single class without native brutality sourcing to 2H...

This is sales speech for "we're about to nerf pvp d swing into the ground".

Wait to see what the notes say though I guess.

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. "ability to stick in melee encounters"? What the heck does that even mean?

2H has a gap closer after all. There are top tier dps builds using 2H dswing for the empower. No one wants stamina dps endgame anyway.

Personally, I think Major Sorcery/Brutality should be removed from the game, or at least limited to ultimates, and sets. In one swoop it solves ZOS's damage issue without adjusting battle spirit. It also solves the healing problem that is going to come after they up BS to 60%. It levels the playing field between classes that don't have access to it. It frees up weapon choices.

katorga

For player abilities, the only things that will break Stealth or Invisibility are direct damage, Crowd Controls such as stuns or immobilizes, or revealing effects such as Expert Hunter or Revealing Flare.

So single target direct damage will break stealth now or just aoe direct damage?

There will also now be a short window when entering Stealth or Invisibility, where player single target attacks made against you will no longer cancel the activation or strip the effect.

Like server performance will even allow this to work reliably. But anyway this conflicts directly with the first statement:

the only things that will break Stealth or Invisibility are direct damage,

Five bucks says NB are un-killable in the next update.