Update 31 Combat Preview

itscompton

Fazuszek wrote: »

Its nice that u are giving more start in CP system, but u know what? I cant slot most of them. I just put my cp points for collections, and then i have to select ONLY a few of them

Give MORE SLOTS for cp bonuses. Thats the priority. We dont need more stars, that need to be slotted. Its just annoying.

Yes, announcing more slottable stars when most people are complaining they're frustrated because they have to choose only 4 of the huge number already currently available in each tree stood out to me as being particularly tone deaf.
The flavor stars such as magic/stamina back on kills or giving someone minor heroism for a few seconds if you heal them from under 50% health are never going to compete with core stars like direct/AOE/Dot damage or healing stars for the 4 slots. If they buff them to compete then they become "core" stars instead of "flavor".
My idea of making flavor stars competitive is to give all active stars a value separate from CP cost. Make core stars each worth 25 points and flavor stars worth 10 points. And instead of a set number of slots make it so you can slot up to 100 points worth of active stars. Then you have real choices; go with 2 core/5 flavor, 3core/2 flavor, maybe make some crazy 0 core/10 flavor build off lots of small flavor buffs? It would give us more options but we still wouldn't be able to stack any more of the bigger core buffs to damage done/mitigated and healing than we can now.

Jaraal

Will you be refunding all our Kutas and Hakeijos when you make Prismatic Onslaught irrelevant?

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Any word on removing cast times from Death Stroke, Soul Tether, Onslaught, or Dawn breaker?

Agreed. These ultimates rarely fire correctly in the Cyrodiil lag.

virtus753

There is no skill in the live version of ESO currently called “Skilled Hunter.” Are you planning to rename “Skilled Tracker”? If so, please make that clear before using terms that aren’t currently live.

And to follow up on what was pointed out above, is Battlespirit’s damage reduction going up by 10 percentage points from its current value or going up by 16 to 60%?

StihlReign

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings!


Much of our focus outside of the pass mentioned above has been on the back-end scripting of abilities and cleaning up the amount of information they have, making sure they use relevant technological advancements we’ve made in the recent years, rather than using older and less efficient systems. For example, removing errant data or finding better ways for one-off checks and validations to be done was a large focus here, while cleaning up inconsistencies in behavior or power along the way. Expect many little changes and bug fixes as a result of this...

...you had me at hello

StarOfElyon

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

To be honest, stop messing around with Battlespirit so much. You need to adjust the outliers, you won't fix Necro defense in pvp by adjusting Battlespirit for example. Giving everybody 20% effective damage mitigation for free looks like a terrible idea. It's not like the ttk of vampire stage 3 + Pariah builds is too low right now...

Tru dat.

I like the other stuff that I'm reading in the announcement though.

StarOfElyon

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

Do not touch Pelinal's Aptitude
Thanks

Pelinials could use an additional 5 piece bonus to be worth using, in my opinion.

StarOfElyon

Integral1900 wrote: »

Please don’t ruin pelinal’s aptitude, if you take away the ability to copy over the hyper stat it will effectively kill hybrid builds in this game, without that set and its ability to copy over the 20% damage boost and the three damage glyphs from jewellery I’m looking at a 1200 point damage loss!

Pelinials is not your only option. The majority of my characters are hybrids. I play them nightly in Battle Grounds. Yes, it's very difficult to balance damage, sustain and defense - but it's not impossible without Pelinials. Wait to see what changes they have in mind. In my opinion, Pelinials needs an additional 5 piece bonus to beat other hybrid sets. I don't understand the fixation on that one set which is an inferior option.

Eatmyface

Nerf cloak. Nerf it into the ground and never bring it back. It’s the single most broken skill in the game, even if “sometimes it doesn’t work” [snip]

Why doesn’t it have a ramping cost increase like streak?
Why do skills like camo hunter cost 4360 stamina AND IT DOESN’T EVEN WORK ANYWAY?
Why is the only viable option to drop (or wait for a 45s cool down), for example tri pots, for a detect pot that means you have 15s to kill that player while they run and dodge and try to hide. Meanwhile you’ve lost a ton of sustain in the process and the 5 other people on you can get an easy kill.

How good would it be if, once in combat, you couldn’t re-enter invisibility. That way the …. relying on cloak only gets one chance to attack that person who doesn’t know they’re there. It’s still more than the person being attacked gets.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

JayKwellen

Ralamil wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

As many player builds lean towards dealing damage in PvP environments, this creates a situation where TTK lowers. While we’ve identified specifics, such as base stat adjustments, we wanted to stay focused on where the problem was felt, which was exclusively related to PvP. Our main adjustment in Update 31 will be to Battle Spirit and focusing on the damage taken portion, increasing it so the base character takes 60% less overall damage, rather than 50%.

So, you and the rest of the team have truly learned nothing, even after all this time.

The reason a lot of people are squishy in PvP is not because some global buff value is too low. It's that they don't know how to play properly, aren't playing with friends, aren't terribly great, have wildly unrealistic expectations about how they should be performing solo/small man versus large groups, and because ZOS has a hard on for proc sets that can add crazy burst with no skill required.

All this will do is reduce their squishy-ness slightly, which I would bet good money won't actually make one bit of difference because it's going to boost the survivability of the groups that are farming them as well.

@Ralamil Oh look, someone who finally gets it.

You, at least, seem to understand one of the biggest underlying issues with TTK this patch.

The number of people running around in PvP with truly awful builds, who don't know the appropriate way to block/dodge, who don't even know how to move properly in PvP (read: the people who just slowly pace backwards when getting attacked), is absurdly high.

They don't run good builds, they don't move right, they don't keep their buffs up, they don't have the right traits on their gear, they don't time their burst, they don't know how to fight outnumbered...so they die. Quickly. Adding 10% more mitigation to battlespirit will do nothing, and I do mean literally nothing, to correct these severe underlying deficiencies in their gameplay.

I'm not terribly surprised the dev team doesn't understand this though, as it would appear they also don't understand that battlespirit is 44% mitigation, not 50%.

UnassumingNoob

Please buff Templar and DK already. It’s really annoying warden and Necro are soo much stronger.

Red_Feather

Jaraal wrote: »

Will you be refunding all our Kutas and Hakeijos when you make Prismatic Onslaught irrelevant?

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Any word on removing cast times from Death Stroke, Soul Tether, Onslaught, or Dawn breaker?

Agreed. These ultimates rarely fire correctly in the Cyrodiil lag.

I think a script to refund all tel var stones is the least that should be done since the change is a complete functionality replacement.

Abyssmol

Eatmyface wrote: »

Nerf cloak. Nerf it into the ground and never bring it back. It’s the single most broken skill in the game, even if “sometimes it doesn’t work” [snip]

Why doesn’t it have a ramping cost increase like streak?
Why do skills like camo hunter cost 4360 stamina AND IT DOESN’T EVEN WORK ANYWAY?
Why is the only viable option to drop (or wait for a 45s cool down), for example tri pots, for a detect pot that means you have 15s to kill that player while they run and dodge and try to hide. Meanwhile you’ve lost a ton of sustain in the process and the 5 other people on you can get an easy kill.

How good would it be if, once in combat, you couldn’t re-enter invisibility. That way the bot relying on cloak only gets one chance to attack that person who doesn’t know they’re there. It’s still more than the person being attacked gets.

[snip]

I thought that cloak was for when chased by a group, but most players now a day spammed it in a 1v1. Its pathetic in my opinion. Cloak should have an increase cost and it should work the same as mist form - stop all regen while in cloak.

propertyOfUndefined

10% more mitigation from battle spirit sounds awful.

Alucardo

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

10% more mitigation from battle spirit sounds awful.

Current battle spirit is 44%, so the change is closer to 20% more mitigation.

Lughlongarm

Alucardo wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

10% more mitigation from battle spirit sounds awful.

Current battle spirit is 44%, so the change is closer to 20% more mitigation.

I think its much more.

If I do 10 damage in PVE, PvP damage ATM will be 6.6(10*0.66). After upcoming Change, damage will be 4(10*0.4). 4/6.6 =0.60 = 40% mitigation.

Alucardo

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

10% more mitigation from battle spirit sounds awful.

Current battle spirit is 44%, so the change is closer to 20% more mitigation.

I think its much more.

If I do 10 damage in PVE, PvP damage ATM will be 6.6(10*0.66). After upcoming Change, damage will be 4(10*0.4). 4/6.6 =0.60 = 40% mitigation.

Not gonna lie, I'm a lot more worried than I initially was.

Zabagad

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I think its much more.

If I do 10 damage in PVE, PvP damage ATM will be 5.6(10*0.56). After upcoming Change, damage will be 4(10*0.4). 4/5.6 =0,71 = 29% mitigation.

Lughlongarm

Zabagad wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I think its much more.

If I do 10 damage in PVE, PvP damage ATM will be 5.6(10*0.56). After upcoming Change, damage will be 4(10*0.4). 4/5.6 =0,71 = 29% mitigation.

Right, thank you for the correction. 100-44 = 56 And Not 66(damm you dyslexia). So ya, 29% mitigation.

Alucardo

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I think its much more.

If I do 10 damage in PVE, PvP damage ATM will be 5.6(10*0.56). After upcoming Change, damage will be 4(10*0.4). 4/5.6 =0,71 = 29% mitigation.

Right, thank you for the correction. 100-44 = 56 And Not 66(damm you dyslexia). So ya, 29% mitigation.

So basically ironblood up 100% of the time. Sounds like fun.

Lughlongarm

Alucardo wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I think its much more.

If I do 10 damage in PVE, PvP damage ATM will be 5.6(10*0.56). After upcoming Change, damage will be 4(10*0.4). 4/5.6 =0,71 = 29% mitigation.

Right, thank you for the correction. 100-44 = 56 And Not 66(damm you dyslexia). So ya, 29% mitigation.

So basically ironblood up 100% of the time. Sounds like fun.

Ya, when you say it like that, we don't even need to wait for PTS, we can test right now to see how bad it will be.

relentless_turnip

Anyone else think just giving back the health on battlespirit would be less detrimental than giving everyone 16% more mitigation? Though this might mean health based heals would need looking at, chipping down a big health bar is easier than trying to kill someone with high mitigation that can't even be penetrated.

VaranisArano

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Anyone else think just giving back the health on battlespirit would be less detrimental than giving everyone 16% more mitigation? Though this might mean health based heals would need looking at, chipping down a big health bar is easier than trying to kill someone with high mitigation that can't even be penetrated.

I think trying to tune the health-based heals is more likely to impact PVE, which ZOS seems to be trying to avoid.

Sephyr

VaranisArano wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Anyone else think just giving back the health on battlespirit would be less detrimental than giving everyone 16% more mitigation? Though this might mean health based heals would need looking at, chipping down a big health bar is easier than trying to kill someone with high mitigation that can't even be penetrated.

I think trying to tune the health-based heals is more likely to impact PVE, which ZOS seems to be trying to avoid.

I was about to ask how since their question was about Battle Spirit, but then I realized yeah... Yeah, that'd leech into the PvE department when trying to address how powerful those get. I'd think perhaps a way around that would be to nerf that through Battle Spirit as well, but who knows anymore.

colossalvoids

K, prismatics are dead, pvp probably will be more problematic with extra mitigation and same player pattern as before but can we at least look back at cast times on ultis? This idiocy need to be stopped already, it just cannot be landed with such a lag, it's not that game where you can justify such a decision.

Joy_Division

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Anyone else think just giving back the health on battlespirit would be less detrimental than giving everyone 16% more mitigation? Though this might mean health based heals would need looking at, chipping down a big health bar is easier than trying to kill someone with high mitigation that can't even be penetrated.

Less, but still problematic. A necro with another 5K health or now players devoting 100% of resources into damage are both going to be negative developments.

waterfairy

If you're trying to limit checks then group mobs into smaller categories...bundle werewolf, vampire and undead into 1 type, all humans and humanoids into another, etc.

I'm willing to be that the biggest checks are from critical damage/healing because the system you have now favors crit so most people build for it...buff base weapon damage or max stam/magic outputs so less people go full crit with all of these % values currently in place.

relentless_turnip

Joy_Division wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Anyone else think just giving back the health on battlespirit would be less detrimental than giving everyone 16% more mitigation? Though this might mean health based heals would need looking at, chipping down a big health bar is easier than trying to kill someone with high mitigation that can't even be penetrated.

Less, but still problematic. A necro with another 5K health or now players devoting 100% of resources into damage are both going to be negative developments.

I agree, I would prefer the Devs just address individual outliers and problematic builds. If they want to just give it the blanket treatment I'd rather they gave us health than mitigation.

karthrag_inak

This game has too many changes. Fundamental combat rules change constantly, and not for the better. It's like every few months someone else's fundamental combat philosophy gets followed, and everything changes.

This isn't fun. It's antagonizing.

Dojohoda

karthrag_inak wrote: »

This game has too many changes. Fundamental combat rules change constantly, and not for the better. It's like every few months someone else's fundamental combat philosophy gets followed, and everything changes.

This isn't fun. It's antagonizing.

I agree 100%. Learning to play again and again over the years because of massive changes is a pain. And why should I continue to bother to adjust because...

The gameplay is horrible in Cyrodiil because the performance continues to be disgustingly bad.

Last night desync was so bad, I couldn't use a single target ultimate and there was nothing wrong with my aim, it wouldn't fire because even though the player was "right there", he wasn't.

During the worst times, which is often, the only skills that might hit are aoe "if" they can be cast because of the lag. When I used my aoe ultimate, the sound occured, the animation occured, but the skill did not fire. The same goes for any skill, except the animation plays halfway and nothing happens.

I know it's not just me, or my equipment, or my internet.

So, I went overland to do quests, but I really only get actual enjoyment from Cyrodiil in this game.

shrekt4303

Guild wars 2 has the capability to split balance with pvp and pve. Battle spirit is too limiting. Doing a blanket nerf or buff to things doesnt help the specific area where dps or tanking damage is a problem. The pvp here is fun and i see efforts to reduce server load, but pvp will never be what it should with battle.spirit existing