This is why people keep complaining about the flaps.

ArchMikem

Another new Chapter. Another new Style. Another instance of clipping from the flaps. It even clips into it's own style. The legs were designed to match the chest, and it still clips. Honestly, if the physics can't be made to fix it then why keep creating Motifs with flaps? Really though I am in love with the style, I changed three slots over to it, but the flap made me stay with Bloodforge.

DontWorryAboutit

Flaps should not be on ANY costume or motif!

Red_Feather

The front flap clips through so many skirt style legs it is very hard to find a pair of skirt style leggings to use. But I understand why it happens. It bums me out, but what can anyone do?

Sylvermynx

Have you tried the Trinimac light legs? I generally don't use chests with flaps (which yes is very limiting, but can't stand the flaps) so I'm not sure if flaps would clip with those or not. I can check tomorrow - not in game in the evening.

M_Volsung

I like them, they make my character's butt look bigger.

Soraka

I want a toggle on/off flaps.

Supertonicbaker

Yeah. It’s funny how a little thing can really annoy.

Shawn_PT

Move all flaps to their corresponding waist slots. Some, obviously, have none. So keep the buckle only for those. Give people options.

Fennwitty

Thought this would be about Matriarchs in town

Red_Feather

Shawn_PT wrote: »

Move all flaps to their corresponding waist slots. Some, obviously, have none. So keep the buckle only for those. Give people options.

I would really love that. What you are suggesting is literally a way to toggle flaps on and off simply by not equipping the waist buckle part of the motif. And I really like that. Keeps it simple.

RealJobasha

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

Shawn_PT

RealJobasha wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

Exactly. It'd take a lot of effort. Which is why it won't ever change.

RealJobasha

Best case scenario is that, going forward, armors don't have flaps, or they do the Militant Ordinator method where the flap is baked into the skirt like so


Alternatively, they could just redo the animation to prevent clipping. It's not physics, I don't think this game even has physics aside from jumping and falling, basically everything is a keyframed animation made to look like physics. note how dead bodies aren't ragdolls, they're static and have falling animations rather than literally falling due to artificial gravity in the physics engine like in Skyrim and Oblivion.

Linaleah

RealJobasha wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

which is absolutely fair. but they keep adding them to NEW armors. and those still clip. so even if fixing old armors might be too work intensive, maybe whatever future armors they design - they could do so without flaps? you know? since those are already being made from scratch, presumably.

SilverBride

That's not the only reason people complain about flaps. A lot of us just don't want huge pieces of cloth dangling between our legs. They are butt ugly and ruin otherwise nice looking outfits.

twev

RealJobasha wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

I'm OK with this.
I mean, thats why the game has devs and techs and artists, and designers.
They wake up and walk to the other side of the room where the home office is.

Players have hated flaps since the beginning of the game.
They should have started designing armor without ridiculous flaps since soon after we told them we hated flaps.

We didn't ask them to dig the hole so deep, but they chose to show us they could force us to like them.
We don't.

VaranisArano

I like the flaps, though it would be nice if ZOS could at least fix them so they don't clip with their own matching weight and style during ordinary animations.

Maybe some people like looking at their character's rear ends, but I find that most of the "butt" areas on form-fitting armors just look a little weird. So I really appreciate the flaps.

A toggle would be ideal, however unlikely.

CipherNine

I hate the stupid hip armor pieces more than anything. They ruin every motif. They look terrible and stupid

ArchMikem

RealJobasha wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

That's why I've personally never suggested or agreed with getting a toggle for them. Way too much time and effort making a whole separate mesh for every armor that has one of those things. I just want to know why they keep making them when they know they're broken and so many players have complained. They've made styles without them before, why not make that standard practice with new styles.

Sarannah

Flaps often work, if you place them with the right gear. So they should not be removed. Maybe an option to show/hide flaps would be a nice solution. But I feel ZOS creates flaps on purpose, so players can't make insanely showing outfits.

Also, clipping isn't a flaps issue. Some outfitcombinations simply clip with anything. Try wearing a shield and not have it clip with the hair, weapon, shoulders, or chestarmor. Clipping is just how some outfitstyles are combined, because they are a certain measurement.

ResidentContrarian

I need flaps to see my enemies, since I don't actually "see" them, my eyes just movement against a background and their flaps clipping. When I detect the clipping, I know its a good idea to fire in that direction.

ArchMikem

Sarannah wrote: »

Flaps often work, if you place them with the right gear. So they should not be removed. Maybe an option to show/hide flaps would be a nice solution. But I feel ZOS creates flaps on purpose, so players can't make insanely showing outfits.

Also, clipping isn't a flaps issue. Some outfitcombinations simply clip with anything. Try wearing a shield and not have it clip with the hair, weapon, shoulders, or chestarmor. Clipping is just how some outfitstyles are combined, because they are a certain measurement.

The flap on Ivory Brigade Chests, is clipping with the Ivory Brigade legs. There's no cross combo here.

GenjiraX

Jorunn’s beard is just as bad.

colossalvoids

In my eyes they should make an effort to make them work with outfits better (multiple positions options?) and enable already existing in-game toggle for ones who do not want it to exist (there were a few even here) but scrapping them fully would probably mean no new chest pieces for people like me who likes that kind of styles but just hate clipping, it still doesn't make me go for a "flap-less" styles at all.

There are workarounds with different personalities, as the more crooked position you're in (or like if any hips activity going) the more chances it would clip obviously.

Banetek

ArchMikem wrote: »

Another new Chapter. Another new Style. Another instance of clipping from the flaps. It even clips into it's own style. The legs were designed to match the chest, and it still clips. Honestly, if the physics can't be made to fix it then why keep creating Motifs with flaps? Really though I am in love with the style, I changed three slots over to it, but the flap made me stay with Bloodforge.

Need that flap to hide the other flaps from showing.

zaria

RealJobasha wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

Khajiit and Argonians has no rear flaps as it will clip the tail. So its more than an single mesh, we also see some npc with outfits options we don't have like the dark shaman skirt and an shirt.

Not sure how much work it would be but game lacks may QoL features, remember complaining about no reply button for mail during beta

RedMuse

RealJobasha wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

I would believe that you might be right and that they actually cared but simply didn't have the time if not for one simple fact, that they keep producing motifs (and costumes) with hip flaps in spite of the player base expressing their frustration and the fact that these clipping issues persist.
I'm not talking about fixing older motifs but that they keep doing this on new motifs too. If they actually gave a hoot about it they'd have dropped the process ages ago.

Coatmagic

+1 If they can't fix it, why keep creating it? *facepalm

code65536

Soraka wrote: »

I want a toggle on/off flaps.

The following settings exist in the game, but are not hooked up to the settings interface...

IN_WORLD_UI_SETTING_HIDE_LOIN_CLOTH
IN_WORLD_UI_SETTING_HIDE_TASSETS

Unfortunately, these settings don't do anything (which is probably why they're not hooked up to the interface). But it gives me hope that maybe, just maybe, this might be something that they'll do at some unspecified point in the future.

jm42

RealJobasha wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "we made a toggle, poof it's done in 5 minutes"

Each of the armor pieces is a mesh. They'd have to open the mesh in their mesh editor and manually delete the flaps from from the armor, and then make a new mesh with just the flap, and then properly set up the mesh properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks), and then (if it works the same way Skyrim's armor does in the CK) add a new form in the game's editor, and then add then path the flap mesh to that new form, and then properly set up the properties in the editor (which is much more involved than a few keystrokes or mouse clicks, though notably less complex than mesh editing), and then add that new form to the armor addon, and then somehow make it toggleable (which would have be a different method from how the helmet toggle works) and then repeat that process for all 500something armors in the game, and then because the armors have all been changed, you'd have to download an absolutely massive update containing the redone armors and their matching flaps. And I'm sure there's one or two details I've left out. This can't all be done in an afternoon, is the point I'm making. We're talking hours on just one of these armors. There's a reason games take years to create, devs aren't spending 4 hours at the watercooler in their 8 hour day.

I'm ok if just new motifs and styles will appear without flaps, the end

jm42

del