Playing [MMO which will not be named] Shows me how much ESO is missing.

xeNNNNN

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

6Kyojin6 wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Considering the unnamed MMO is, well, unnamed, then we cannot really consider it relevant to the discussion as we cannot discuss it. It would be interesting to know what the discussion is about since I think the regular questing in this game is superior to most MMORPGs I have played. Very well written, voiced. and drawn. As I get better geared and more CP I look forward to getting into the more challenging aspects of the game such as the more serious dungeons and the raids. I have already started working on vet Maelstrom which I find to be a worthy challenge at my lower CP level.

Its final fantasy xiv. And its not THAT good of a game. Its overland is empty, side quests are terrible, and etc. I would trade ffxiv sides quests for eso side quests anytime of the day. And they have such a poor quest design imo. Did i mentioned nobody group up there? It even worse than eso. And c'mon, as a pvp player, how can you say ffxiv is better than eso? ffxiv pvp is terrible.

There's a reason FFXIV is the second most popular MMO behind WoW and far ahead of ESO.

clearly, it is that good of a game lol. PvP sucks tho 100% agree with you there. But that's the thing. The game has way more players and is way more popular than ESO despite having *** PvP. That's uh, kind of insane considering one of ESO's biggest draws is the PvP.

Also their quest design is WAY better than ESO. You don't do 'side' quests to level, you just do the main story and it feels like you're playing a climatic single player rpg at some points. Also, their quests are actually challenging and have memorable story bosses.... where as ESO? Yeah, I don't even remember the final story boss's name from last year.

You are forgetting something here on the matter of popularity; Regional population.

Final Fantasy while having a rather large following in the western market is completely dwarfed by the popularity in the Asian market, in fact I would wager that a large swath perhaps majority are from the Asian region. The reason being is the game is built around Asian video game and cultural designs and appeals to them far more than it does to most western MMO players.

The Asian gaming market is absolutely enormous do not underestimate the full scope of potential and popularity that market of the world can generate, hell that region has one of the largest concentrations of internet cafes in the world specifically for games.

EDIT: I would also add that had WoW not started when it did and FF instead came first its very likely that the roles would be reversed right now for this very reason.

What does region have to do with anything? Still humans enjoying the game and boosting its cred. I'm Asian and never liked FF. before i tried XIV. At the end of the day FF gets more views on twitch than ESO does on the week a new expansion drops. And you're wrong. EU, NA and JAPAN have close populations. NA more so than JP. https://ffxivcensus.com

Then I am wrong and I retract my position though they really should update those stats far more frequently, I also do wonder how many of them are anime fans haha would explain a lot seeing as I cant see the appeal to that game at all on a visual level

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

LeonAkando wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Popularity is popularity is all I'm getting from this. It's ESO's fault if they don't want to invest in being able to run effectively over-seas and yet another reason why FFXIV is just flat out better. FFXIV is world-wide. ESO is barely able to be played in EU

ESO is an M rated game, it wouldn't even be legally allowed in Eastern markets. That's why it doesn't try. China is a big market but has extremely strict rules. They'd have to remove nearly all the gore, you'd have to delete every questline that has same sex couples. They may have to edit down any quest's that include swearing.

I like FF a lot, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be able to have basic human rights than neuter everything to appeal to one region.

That's the thing. ESO is an M rated game yet, honestly, is this ever really taken advantage of that much in stories? We don't really have any dark or gruesome stories. They treat the game like it's a rated T game, tbh.

Also, FFXIV has trans, same sex couples, and way more than what ESO peddles.

Frankly I would like all the "peddling" in every game to just stop. We don't need more of it, the world doesn't need more of it. Its all just splitting us apart and gets us nowhere. Quality over check boxes for extremely small groups of people (relatively) please.

As for your mention of vampire abilities and such in your response to me I would say you are correct, though I think one or two skills need a serious re-think before they do anything with it particularly the one that has a health cost for power, while thematically it works practically its a death sentence and completely unusable save for some odd roleplay I suppose, though even in that position its still very meh.

I showed a friend the vampire lord ultimate, his first comment "wheres the wings >:(" .... the dudes a sucker for flying or just anything that flaps I guess. Maybe they could add some wings? ha.

BRO SAME. The fact blood frenzy exists is so insane. I also agree with the peddling aspect.

But back to vampire; it actually DOESNT thematically work because vampires in ESO have never, ever traded their own HP for power. They've always been about siphoning HP for power. There's a reason no other vampire in the entire game uses the ability 'blood frenzy.' It's not even a good RP skill cause visually it looks like fart clouds hovering around you.

Same on the wings. The worse part there is we're shown many times vamp lords with wings throughout greymoor. Dont take your friend there, he might get jealous ): I also hope he's playing a DK so he can go flappy-flap.

Also, vampiric drain for vamp looks like literally sucking the pee out of people (invigorating drain) and is an extremely bad ability.

There's a LOT wrong with that line that'd I'd be able to overlook if they just added more vampire skills to it. IE: that really awesome vampire bat-swarm dash or the ability to summon a swarm of bats like the NPCs can

I didn't see this comment some how lol, sorry about that.

Yes it feels like they went heavy on theme without forethought. I wanted so badly for vamp lord to be a ultimate for PvP but once I realised that alls you really gain from it is perfect scion I was completely demoralised, its basically battle roar and a cool effect with a mini necro buff. Really boring.

Give me my undeath back at stage 1, my magdk misses it. So does my magblade for that matter.

Additional Idea to what you added; Mist form should have an invisible morph. Grants you invisibility for its duration. As a blade main, I know how fun stealth can be its our shtick we have all sorts of fun with shadowy disguise however, mist form should be what it sounds like. Its bizarre to me that it doesn't provide some sort of invisibility even temporarily.

VampReworkFailed

Linaleah wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.


That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.

They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)

Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?

Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.

You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.

ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.

Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:

Its not just 12 on other regions. Lets not forget about that. And i'm not a english native speaker. And you know we'll be able to get anything from lootboxes in the next change, right? And i pay ffxiv, >.>. Some cosmetics can be locked behind a paywall here, but everyone has the chance to get it. You don't need to open your wallet to get that. In exchange, on ffxiv, the BEST glamours are behind a paywall imo and ARE expensive for a piece of virtual cloth. And you know most of its gear is generic.

I've single handedly spent more money buying in-game motifs in ESO than I've spent looking cool on FFXIV. Like, the class armor you can get from raids/dungeons and even the artifact weapon glamours you get are insanely cool looking.

https://imgur.com/a/syx3PId

Like, I can look like this with 100% in-game items.

Gear in eso is more to my taste... >.>. You can look as good with gold here as well or even without that. We got more variety in costumes, skins, and motifs/armors than ffxiv imo. Always felt ffxiv lacking there. 1-50 you look like a beggar.(same-ish gear, not a good gear progression? samey look?) Some jobs you need to use glamour to not look like ***. Its not even funny.

Oh, big agree there. Some jobs do look like *** from my tastes. And the gear until you actually hit like, level 30 looks absolutely gross.

But the issue with the variety of costumes, skins, motifs on ESO is that pretty much all of that can be obtained from the crownstore. Even if you can earn it in game.

hang on. HANG THE FRICK ON. your complain is that there is OPTIONAL ability to buy stuff in crown store? even though its often easier, faster and significantly cheaper to get something in game and getting it in game is THE primary means? having an OPTION to just throw cash at it is your problem? really dude? really?

not exclusives, oh no. you are bothered that there is an OVERLAP. dear. god.

also, I have played final fantasy.
1. it is extremely easy at early levels. its also much MUCH slower then ESO in every possible way. your example with skeevers is lies and more lies, starting with the fact that the earliest you can go into overland is at lvl 3.
2. its free trial has a catch. the moment, THE MOMENT you upgrade? you have to keep paying subscription to acess the game. you have to stay on a trial account to play for free. oh and if you already have an existing account? bought a copy at some point? guess what? don't get a free trial anymore. can't add it to your existing square account, have to create a new square account for that free trial. at least with ESO once I have my base copy, I can play it whenever I feel like, with or without subscription.


and in any case, most of your preferences are just that. preferences. subjective.

yeah, literally having the option to throw money at stuff instead of earning it is pretty bad business practice for games. There's a reason none of the other TOP mmos do it and a reason why ESO will always be below WoW and FFXIV.

Yeah, most players view it as ruining the value of earnable in-game items. As being able to buy them kind of ruins the point of playing the game to earn them.

also why tf would you ever upgrade your FFXIV account unless you think you're ready? If you do that and expect to still play the free trial afterwards you're very greedy. Also, again, it is $12 a month. If you can't afford that or if paying to fund continuous development of your MMO so you don't have to worry about predatory practices and getting low quality stuff is too much for you, then playing an MMO probably isn't your best bet.

And ESO having that optional 'play whenever I feel like' comes at a cost to game quality, as displayed here. There's a reason a monthly subscription is OBJECTIVELY the best game model for an MMO.

Mayrael

I agree with the difficulty part. It really breaks the immersion and spoils all the fun. I remember old style MMOs where you really felt like you accomplished something when you completed a quest, not to mention fighting the final bosses.
In ESO I completed thousands of quests, literally thousands... But that was until the introduction of level scaling. After that, it only got worse. I approached different quests and story lines many times, tried to do them in different ways, but everything eventually bored me after half an hour at most. I can safely say that because of ESO's "difficulty" level, I hate overland content in this game, I avoid it, and it will stay that way.

Aside from the above and technical issues (lag, daily maintenance during the day) ESO is one of the best MMOs I've ever played. The combat system in this game is insane (that's why it pains me so much that its potential remains unused in about 80% by the zero level of difficulty overland), the story of the quests, despite their vastness can often surprise us and is not always what we expected, beautiful locations, the lack of the fairy-tale style that can be found at every step in Asian MMOs, all this makes ESO, despite its sholacks is still my number one.

NoireJin the Witchking

thorwyn wrote: »

Popularity is just one effect of a mass market, it is no indicator for quality whatsoever. The fact that BigMac's are popular does not mean that they are quality food. The fact that Justin Bieber sold millions of records does not mean that he produces high quality music. "The Lord of the Rings" is the holy grail of fantasy literature, yet it is not very well written by linguistic standards. The fact that billions of flies enjoy eating horse poop.... you get the idea.

As for FF14... really? Quest design? 90% of the game does not even come with voice over. The "cinematic" cut scenes are just anime characters moving their mouths and waving their arms while the actual dialogue is delivered via speech bubbles. The entire world feels like Disney Land, walking cactuses, pokemon style pets, batmobiles, everything wrapped in low res textures and with cute eyes, character animations that look like straight out of a jump'n'run arcade. Don't get me wrong, the game is ok and the world is nice to look at. If that's what floats your boat, then go for it. I enjoy playing it every once in a while. But it is definitely not the place where I would like to spend the rest of my gaming life. And it msot certainly is no reference for features that I would like to see in other games.

Games have different approaches, different limitations and design decisions that they have to focus on. ESO is far from perfect. But it has it's own style and does what it does really well. There is no need to borrow inspiration from anywhere else.

Ah the classic. You compared a game, which is literally made for player interaction. Both in and out of game. And another, a fast food menu item that is not meant to be streamed and have player interaction. The classing False equivalence fallacy. If you genuinely believe low audience retention rate in any other medium outside of game = good marketing then idk what to tell you. I've spent 9 years of my life learning of game design, marketing and media management. But hey i guess a game streaming numbers equates to a big mac on the week a new chapter was released..

Just to teach you something. This is Mcdonalds ( a fast food place) opening up in Moscow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbfS99N6jY
Notice how many people there are? That's called retention and marketing my friend. That's the equivalence of the online sphere of influence. ESO gets 15k viewers and 13k of them belong to one streamer. This is during a brand new chapter launch. It's not indicative of quality, that was never my point but its indicative of community interaction.

and like what is up with people on this forum. Like did i say ESO questing sucks? Anywhere did you read me say "ESO QUESTING IS BAD BECAUSE IT HAS BAD VOICE ACTING AND Is UGLY" No. i said, ESO story is one of the best but detracts cos every boss is cannon fodder losing the ambience and tension built along the way. Overland is dead easy and boring. Casual content is lackluster, Rwards are useless, solo instances for main quests or even player interaction. Out of all the points i made people always go to the quests, Stop talking about the story. We get it, I get it. Is that all ESO has going for it? ESO has a beautiful story i agree to that As i said multiple times. Im talking about other core systems that are so far behind another MMO. If you cant read well, that's fine. That doesn't mean the story is bad and the ingame cutscenes are far better than ESO (not that eso has any) by a Mile. Crisper animations, a lot less visual bugs with NPCS, no jankiness or jittering and you get to even feel apart of the story, without voice acting which says something. its better then Greymoor. and at least 3 DLCs in ESO. And i've been a loyal ESO player. BW admittedly was amazing, AS I SAID.

Brrrofski

I think it's fairly obvious that ZOS has moved towards making this game a lot more casual than other MMOs.

Like honestly, most days you'd forget you're playing an MMO.

I'm fine with overland and questing being what's it is. If I want to get sweaty, I'll play PVP or difficult group content. If I want to chill out, I'll so some overland or questing or zone dailies. I'm fine with it being easy.

The questing is ok. Honestly, if I wanted to play an in depth game I'd play a single player anyway. I don't see personally how you can be immersed in any MMO when you have other people on screen and text chat popping off.

I've continued playing this game for the social element and for the harder content. The harder PvE stuff and pvp (usually playing solo). Overland is usually an ends to a mean (getting gear, skills, unlocking stuff etc).

Sheezabeast

Oh come on, we all know what keeps "other mmo" relevant: fan service and skin.

Fhritz

Trying to compare two different MMO is like trying to compare two different a strawberry and a banana. Yeah, both are fruit, but that's it. Sure, ESO has flaws, but comparing it to other MMO with different gameplay, quest system, leveling system or whatever is irrelevant. To go further, the difference between games make them actually fun. If you want ESO look like a certain game, then go play this game ! ESO NEED some rework (more class identity, harder overland content, ranked battlegrounds, ...) but it's related to its own content, to its own identity ! I don't need copy/paste game, go play some korean MMO for that.

And remember that sometimes, you can't see all the strenght of ESO. I'm French, and actually the game is ENTIERELY voice acted in French, with even a famous youtuber from here ("Bob Lenon" he made +400 ep on skyrim on youtube each about 1-2h, he's a huge fan of the TES series). Having a game where EVERY language available is voice acted, that's a very good point.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have closed this thread as it has a lot of non-constructive back and forthing. Remember when engaging with a thread that you must do so in a civil and constructive manner that is within the rules.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.