Playing [MMO which will not be named] Shows me how much ESO is missing.
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VampReworkFailed wrote: »Considering the unnamed MMO is, well, unnamed, then we cannot really consider it relevant to the discussion as we cannot discuss it. It would be interesting to know what the discussion is about since I think the regular questing in this game is superior to most MMORPGs I have played. Very well written, voiced. and drawn. As I get better geared and more CP I look forward to getting into the more challenging aspects of the game such as the more serious dungeons and the raids. I have already started working on vet Maelstrom which I find to be a worthy challenge at my lower CP level.
Its final fantasy xiv. And its not THAT good of a game. Its overland is empty, side quests are terrible, and etc. I would trade ffxiv sides quests for eso side quests anytime of the day. And they have such a poor quest design imo. Did i mentioned nobody group up there? It even worse than eso. And c'mon, as a pvp player, how can you say ffxiv is better than eso? ffxiv pvp is terrible.
There's a reason FFXIV is the second most popular MMO behind WoW and far ahead of ESO.
clearly, it is that good of a game lol. PvP sucks tho 100% agree with you there. But that's the thing. The game has way more players and is way more popular than ESO despite having *** PvP. That's uh, kind of insane considering one of ESO's biggest draws is the PvP.
Also their quest design is WAY better than ESO. You don't do 'side' quests to level, you just do the main story and it feels like you're playing a climatic single player rpg at some points. Also, their quests are actually challenging and have memorable story bosses.... where as ESO? Yeah, I don't even remember the final story boss's name from last year.
You are forgetting something here on the matter of popularity; Regional population.
Final Fantasy while having a rather large following in the western market is completely dwarfed by the popularity in the Asian market, in fact I would wager that a large swath perhaps majority are from the Asian region. The reason being is the game is built around Asian video game and cultural designs and appeals to them far more than it does to most western MMO players.
The Asian gaming market is absolutely enormous do not underestimate the full scope of potential and popularity that market of the world can generate, hell that region has one of the largest concentrations of internet cafes in the world specifically for games.
EDIT: I would also add that had WoW not started when it did and FF instead came first its very likely that the roles would be reversed right now for this very reason.
What does region have to do with anything? Still humans enjoying the game and boosting its cred. I'm Asian and never liked FF. before i tried XIV. At the end of the day FF gets more views on twitch than ESO does on the week a new expansion drops. And you're wrong. EU, NA and JAPAN have close populations. NA more so than JP. https://ffxivcensus.com
It has a lot to do with everything. The reason being that the individual I was responding to was citing the sheer popularity of the game, there are reasons behind that reasons that must be acknowledged when making comparisons and thus if one is to fairly make the point of why something is popular they must also naunce their position. It would be completely unreasonable to factor in the asian market (more accurately the eastern market in general).VampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »
Popularity is popularity is all I'm getting from this. It's ESO's fault if they don't want to invest in being able to run effectively over-seas and yet another reason why FFXIV is just flat out better. FFXIV is world-wide. ESO is barely able to be played in EU
ESO is an M rated game, it wouldn't even be legally allowed in Eastern markets. That's why it doesn't try. China is a big market but has extremely strict rules. They'd have to remove nearly all the gore, you'd have to delete every questline that has same sex couples. They may have to edit down any quest's that include swearing.
I like FF a lot, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be able to have basic human rights than neuter everything to appeal to one region.
That's the thing. ESO is an M rated game yet, honestly, is this ever really taken advantage of that much in stories? We don't really have any dark or gruesome stories. They treat the game like it's a rated T game, tbh.
Also, FFXIV has trans, same sex couples, and way more than what ESO peddles.
[snip]
As for your mention of vampire abilities and such in your response to me I would say you are correct, though I think one or two skills need a serious re-think before they do anything with it particularly the one that has a health cost for power, while thematically it works practically its a death sentence and completely unusable save for some odd roleplay I suppose, though even in that position its still very meh.
I showed a friend the vampire lord ultimate, his first comment "wheres the wings >:(" .... the dudes a sucker for flying or just anything that flaps I guess. Maybe they could add some wings? ha.
It has 0 to do with anything. You hedged your bet JP was bigger. You're were wrong. Na is bigger. And just because different people in different region doesn't attribute it to them being of that race. FF actually doesn't take a huge Japanese aesthetic apart from character design. the world is more western then it is eastern with a steampunk aesthetic. Your logic is "eastern people play eastern games". Wrong. Western audiences consume Kpop, anime and general eastern entertainment more so then actual eastern people. I bet you think my room is full of catgirl toys, body pillows and anime posters cos im Eastern? jk lolEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:27AM0 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »Considering the unnamed MMO is, well, unnamed, then we cannot really consider it relevant to the discussion as we cannot discuss it. It would be interesting to know what the discussion is about since I think the regular questing in this game is superior to most MMORPGs I have played. Very well written, voiced. and drawn. As I get better geared and more CP I look forward to getting into the more challenging aspects of the game such as the more serious dungeons and the raids. I have already started working on vet Maelstrom which I find to be a worthy challenge at my lower CP level.
Its final fantasy xiv. And its not THAT good of a game. Its overland is empty, side quests are terrible, and etc. I would trade ffxiv sides quests for eso side quests anytime of the day. And they have such a poor quest design imo. Did i mentioned nobody group up there? It even worse than eso. And c'mon, as a pvp player, how can you say ffxiv is better than eso? ffxiv pvp is terrible.
There's a reason FFXIV is the second most popular MMO behind WoW and far ahead of ESO.
clearly, it is that good of a game lol. PvP sucks tho 100% agree with you there. But that's the thing. The game has way more players and is way more popular than ESO despite having *** PvP. That's uh, kind of insane considering one of ESO's biggest draws is the PvP.
Also their quest design is WAY better than ESO. You don't do 'side' quests to level, you just do the main story and it feels like you're playing a climatic single player rpg at some points. Also, their quests are actually challenging and have memorable story bosses.... where as ESO? Yeah, I don't even remember the final story boss's name from last year.
You are forgetting something here on the matter of popularity; Regional population.
Final Fantasy while having a rather large following in the western market is completely dwarfed by the popularity in the Asian market, in fact I would wager that a large swath perhaps majority are from the Asian region. The reason being is the game is built around Asian video game and cultural designs and appeals to them far more than it does to most western MMO players.
The Asian gaming market is absolutely enormous do not underestimate the full scope of potential and popularity that market of the world can generate, hell that region has one of the largest concentrations of internet cafes in the world specifically for games.
EDIT: I would also add that had WoW not started when it did and FF instead came first its very likely that the roles would be reversed right now for this very reason.
What does region have to do with anything? Still humans enjoying the game and boosting its cred. I'm Asian and never liked FF. before i tried XIV. At the end of the day FF gets more views on twitch than ESO does on the week a new expansion drops. And you're wrong. EU, NA and JAPAN have close populations. NA more so than JP. https://ffxivcensus.com
Then I am wrong and I retract my position though they really should update those stats far more frequently, I also do wonder how many of them are anime fans haha would explain a lot seeing as I cant see the appeal to that game at all on a visual levelVampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »
Popularity is popularity is all I'm getting from this. It's ESO's fault if they don't want to invest in being able to run effectively over-seas and yet another reason why FFXIV is just flat out better. FFXIV is world-wide. ESO is barely able to be played in EU
ESO is an M rated game, it wouldn't even be legally allowed in Eastern markets. That's why it doesn't try. China is a big market but has extremely strict rules. They'd have to remove nearly all the gore, you'd have to delete every questline that has same sex couples. They may have to edit down any quest's that include swearing.
I like FF a lot, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be able to have basic human rights than neuter everything to appeal to one region.
That's the thing. ESO is an M rated game yet, honestly, is this ever really taken advantage of that much in stories? We don't really have any dark or gruesome stories. They treat the game like it's a rated T game, tbh.
Also, FFXIV has trans, same sex couples, and way more than what ESO peddles.
[snip]
As for your mention of vampire abilities and such in your response to me I would say you are correct, though I think one or two skills need a serious re-think before they do anything with it particularly the one that has a health cost for power, while thematically it works practically its a death sentence and completely unusable save for some odd roleplay I suppose, though even in that position its still very meh.
I showed a friend the vampire lord ultimate, his first comment "wheres the wings >:(" .... the dudes a sucker for flying or just anything that flaps I guess. Maybe they could add some wings? ha.
BRO SAME. The fact blood frenzy exists is so insane. I also agree with the peddling aspect.
But back to vampire; it actually DOESNT thematically work because vampires in ESO have never, ever traded their own HP for power. They've always been about siphoning HP for power. There's a reason no other vampire in the entire game uses the ability 'blood frenzy.' It's not even a good RP skill cause visually it looks like fart clouds hovering around you.
Same on the wings. The worse part there is we're shown many times vamp lords with wings throughout greymoor. Dont take your friend there, he might get jealous ): I also hope he's playing a DK so he can go flappy-flap.
Also, vampiric drain for vamp looks like literally sucking the pee out of people (invigorating drain) and is an extremely bad ability.
There's a LOT wrong with that line that'd I'd be able to overlook if they just added more vampire skills to it. IE: that really awesome vampire bat-swarm dash or the ability to summon a swarm of bats like the NPCs canEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:27AM0 -
HalfRain216✭✭✭HalfRain216 wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »HalfRain216 wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »HalfRain216 wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Im like level 10 and the first time i saw a Pegasus or a phoenix for a mount i was amazed. Its been a while since ESO made me feel like that.
You can trade gold for crowns on any server and version of ESO.
Xbox NA it’s only 90/1 so everything is obtainable without real money just not an official feature of the game.
FFXIV doesn't even have a cash-shop currency. There is no argument to be made here.
No argument in what sense? That is your opinion there is a lot of people out there that would prefer to use their money to purchase an item instead of grinding gold. I enjoy loot boxes on any games but prefer to trade gold for crowns on ESO.
OOOOOOOOOH you're one of those people. Yikes.
That enjoys something you don’t? Sorry I don’t understand? Someone with spare money?
Lmao imagine defending a predatory practice like lootboxes with "i have money" pretty sure if i went to my local crackhead he will tell me he loves crack bc he has money to buy it.
I don’t understand your comparison at all. Loot boxes are only predatory if your spending money on something you cant afford.
I didn’t say I spent money on them but it does come down to culture also. Australia is a gambling country we have more pokies per person than any other country and spend about $850 a year on them. I guess I enjoy the thrill of not knowing what I’m going to get hoping for a win.
I don’t think it is predatory but that is just my opinion I don’t think your wrong either as they are opinions you can’t tell me what to or not to enjoy.Edited by HalfRain216 on June 8, 2021 5:06AM0 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Its not just 12 on other regions. Lets not forget about that. And i'm not a english native speaker. And you know we'll be able to get anything from lootboxes in the next change, right? And i pay ffxiv, >.>. Some cosmetics can be locked behind a paywall here, but everyone has the chance to get it. You don't need to open your wallet to get that. In exchange, on ffxiv, the BEST glamours are behind a paywall imo and ARE expensive for a piece of virtual cloth. And you know most of its gear is generic.VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Im like level 10 and the first time i saw a Pegasus or a phoenix for a mount i was amazed. Its been a while since ESO made me feel like that.
Bruh, same. OH. ALSO?
...The game has flying mounts. And earning the ability to fly isn't completely outlandish and actually quite fun.
I don't even know why people keep commenting about quests lol, that's like the only positive thing i said about ESO i would've thought they got it. And someone compared the class to ESO. ESO classes on paper are really cool but like.. have you seen the animations? The amount of skills? I love ESO, but FFXIV combat is a whole another level. I HATE target combat which i why i played ESO. But after playing WOW it's grown on me. Because it feels like i'm actually using my brain.
Now that you mentioned quests again, let me say it. The most important thing to make me quit ffxiv was the lack of choices on quests. You're just a yes man or woman and keeps being even after shb (doing menial tasks). What you say has no weight... Everything is streamlined until the more basic elements.
Later on in FFXIV quests actually do start to get dialogue choices.
However, if we're talking about 'choices' ESO barely has those too. Heck, for most of greymoor nobody even notices you're a vampire. Same with necromancers in Elsweyr.1 -
VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Its not just 12 on other regions. Lets not forget about that. And i'm not a english native speaker. And you know we'll be able to get anything from lootboxes in the next change, right? And i pay ffxiv, >.>. Some cosmetics can be locked behind a paywall here, but everyone has the chance to get it. You don't need to open your wallet to get that. In exchange, on ffxiv, the BEST glamours are behind a paywall imo and ARE expensive for a piece of virtual cloth. And you know most of its gear is generic.VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Im like level 10 and the first time i saw a Pegasus or a phoenix for a mount i was amazed. Its been a while since ESO made me feel like that.
Bruh, same. OH. ALSO?
...The game has flying mounts. And earning the ability to fly isn't completely outlandish and actually quite fun.
I don't even know why people keep commenting about quests lol, that's like the only positive thing i said about ESO i would've thought they got it. And someone compared the class to ESO. ESO classes on paper are really cool but like.. have you seen the animations? The amount of skills? I love ESO, but FFXIV combat is a whole another level. I HATE target combat which i why i played ESO. But after playing WOW it's grown on me. Because it feels like i'm actually using my brain.
Now that you mentioned quests again, let me say it. The most important thing to make me quit ffxiv was the lack of choices on quests. You're just a yes man or woman and keeps being even after shb (doing menial tasks). What you say has no weight... Everything is streamlined until the more basic elements.
Um that is categorically untrue, there are plenty of choices through out the story. While I agree they don't have a huge effect, i don't recall there being any major decision making in ESO either. Apart from the oddline from a random NPC talking about YOUR missions outside the final quest. Thats it. ESO hasnt even found a way to accurately put your conquests together in a newerzone.0 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Its not just 12 on other regions. Lets not forget about that. And i'm not a english native speaker. And you know we'll be able to get anything from lootboxes in the next change, right? And i pay ffxiv, >.>. Some cosmetics can be locked behind a paywall here, but everyone has the chance to get it. You don't need to open your wallet to get that. In exchange, on ffxiv, the BEST glamours are behind a paywall imo and ARE expensive for a piece of virtual cloth. And you know most of its gear is generic.VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Im like level 10 and the first time i saw a Pegasus or a phoenix for a mount i was amazed. Its been a while since ESO made me feel like that.
Bruh, same. OH. ALSO?
...The game has flying mounts. And earning the ability to fly isn't completely outlandish and actually quite fun.
I don't even know why people keep commenting about quests lol, that's like the only positive thing i said about ESO i would've thought they got it. And someone compared the class to ESO. ESO classes on paper are really cool but like.. have you seen the animations? The amount of skills? I love ESO, but FFXIV combat is a whole another level. I HATE target combat which i why i played ESO. But after playing WOW it's grown on me. Because it feels like i'm actually using my brain.
Now that you mentioned quests again, let me say it. The most important thing to make me quit ffxiv was the lack of choices on quests. You're just a yes man or woman and keeps being even after shb (doing menial tasks). What you say has no weight... Everything is streamlined until the more basic elements.
Um that is categorically untrue, there are plenty of choices through out the story. While I agree they don't have a huge effect, i don't recall there being any major decision making in ESO either. Apart from the oddline from a random NPC talking about YOUR missions outside the final quest. Thats it. ESO hasnt even found a way to accurately put your conquests together in a newerzone.
let's not forget ESO regularly retcons these 'important' decisions when chapter-sales are on the line. Aka: sacrificing certain main characters, etc.0 -
VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Its not just 12 on other regions. Lets not forget about that. And i'm not a english native speaker. And you know we'll be able to get anything from lootboxes in the next change, right? And i pay ffxiv, >.>. Some cosmetics can be locked behind a paywall here, but everyone has the chance to get it. You don't need to open your wallet to get that. In exchange, on ffxiv, the BEST glamours are behind a paywall imo and ARE expensive for a piece of virtual cloth. And you know most of its gear is generic.VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Im like level 10 and the first time i saw a Pegasus or a phoenix for a mount i was amazed. Its been a while since ESO made me feel like that.
Bruh, same. OH. ALSO?
...The game has flying mounts. And earning the ability to fly isn't completely outlandish and actually quite fun.
I don't even know why people keep commenting about quests lol, that's like the only positive thing i said about ESO i would've thought they got it. And someone compared the class to ESO. ESO classes on paper are really cool but like.. have you seen the animations? The amount of skills? I love ESO, but FFXIV combat is a whole another level. I HATE target combat which i why i played ESO. But after playing WOW it's grown on me. Because it feels like i'm actually using my brain.
Now that you mentioned quests again, let me say it. The most important thing to make me quit ffxiv was the lack of choices on quests. You're just a yes man or woman and keeps being even after shb (doing menial tasks). What you say has no weight... Everything is streamlined until the more basic elements.
Um that is categorically untrue, there are plenty of choices through out the story. While I agree they don't have a huge effect, i don't recall there being any major decision making in ESO either. Apart from the oddline from a random NPC talking about YOUR missions outside the final quest. Thats it. ESO hasnt even found a way to accurately put your conquests together in a newerzone.
let's not forget ESO regularly retcons these 'important' decisions when chapter-sales are on the line. Aka: sacrificing certain main characters, etc.
Yeah, sadly ESO has such great founbdations, Orsinium was amazing, Summerset was great, but when Greymoor came out i lose hope, and it was so boring it took me weeks to finish. Blackwood was so much better interms of story, dare i say amazing. It actually was really cool. Sadly tho after the MSQ i found myself bored again and like there was nothing to do. But like idk why people are talking to me about choices like ESO has better options. VA is superior, buts a different convo0 -
LeonAkando✭✭✭✭[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:28AM2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »Heck, I think ESO Logs was created by the person who ran the login in FF14.
Kihra was a hardcore WoW Raider who set out to make a better system than the World Of Logs system. Then created the mega-hit Warcraftlogs.
Then used that same format when they were playing Wildstar (may it rest in peace) hardcore and created Wildstarlogs.
Then later expanded that to what is considered the "Big 3" Warcraftlogs, ESOLogs, FFLogs.
Even has some other ones iirc, like SWTORLogs.
Cool person, got to play a little with them in Wildstar.
Thx for the clarification. I had thought it was FF14 since it was some that I raided with from there that mentioned it but many of us had also raided in WoW.0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unknown MMO has Lalafell, which is a big negative. But they also have fat chocobo and fat cat, which are awesome.
Also, their community is...interesting.
Signed,
A SAM somewhere in Cactaur"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
i think he forgot gay people really exist. It's not peddling if its real. I bet they don't have a problem with King Emmerich and his wife being flirtatious at times or Raz and the Psijic lady flirting bc its normal. Im not like a twitter woke person or anything but representation doesn't mean it's peddling. It just mean people can naturally be attracted to their own sex. And yes, fictional character can also be gayEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:28AM0 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
i think he forgot gay people really exist. It's not peddling if its real. I bet they don't have a problem with King Emmerich and his wife being flirtatious at times or Raz and the Psijic lady flirting bc its normal. Im not like a twitter woke person or anything but representation doesn't mean it's peddling. It just mean people can naturally be attracted to their own sex. And yes, fictional character can also be gay
Agree completely. Although, I believe he's referring to when it gets over-done to the point of feeling like peddling. I have a gay friend who found the overwhelming amount of horrible LGBT writing (aka gay for the sake of being gay or 'ah surprise, we're gay!') in greymoor to be in very poor taste and it turned them off from the expansion entirely.
Base-game is alright, though, but greymoor went a little overboard imo.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:28AM1 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭Unknown MMO has Lalafell, which is a big negative. But they also have fat chocobo and fat cat, which are awesome.
Also, their community is...interesting.
Signed,
A SAM somewhere in Cactaur
lalafell are literally the bane of my existence in unknown MMO.
Genuinely want to punt every single one of them into oblivion.1 -
LeonAkando✭✭✭✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »
almost every single couple we come across in greymoor is same-sex.
The same scenario of 'help x lover' happened many times in that zone. It's not the concept itself and that minorities don't matter, I just think there comes a time and place where if the majority of your quests in a zone revolve around the same plot point then it's kind of lame.
Can't say I've come across that, and I did all of Greymoor. The most notable relationship quest in Greymoor was the in The Reach when you help Madearn choose whether or not to get married, and thats to a woman.
The most notable same-sex relationship was side quest in Summerset where a man wanted to preserve his partners legacy and you had to choose who took the blame for the event.
iirc, there was one same-sex couple in Western Skyrim with two women about the Jarl's Daughter and her necromancer girlfriend.
I get that they're more frequent then they were in base game, or even in up until Elsweyr but I would hardly call it the "norm" when nearly 70% of ESO's NPCs are in a relationship, and the vast majority of those being hetero.
0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
That is a very loaded and very twisted interpretation of what I am saying.
I'll provide a real world example; My sister is a lesbian she is only 21. She is beyond embarrassed by the fact that people want to constantly push it more and more and more, she just wants to be treated as normal, she knows she is in the minority but also likes it that way in her own words: "why plaster us everywhere like we're some sort of medal to put on a shelf of a company or video game? I want to be normal" ... The only response I had for her is "money & politics". Do you understand? Has anyone bothered to actually ask people if its what they want beyond the usual activists? its thoughtless. Of course nobody could possibly believe that the very people they're trying to appropriate would not want it. Nobody likes so much attention being drawn upon them in this way.
I get that you feel dejected by my comment, but do not presume prejudice where there is none.
EDIT: If its going to be done, it must be done tastefully and reasonably and not some sort of mass check box listing.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:29AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.3 -
VampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
i think he forgot gay people really exist. It's not peddling if its real. I bet they don't have a problem with King Emmerich and his wife being flirtatious at times or Raz and the Psijic lady flirting bc its normal. Im not like a twitter woke person or anything but representation doesn't mean it's peddling. It just mean people can naturally be attracted to their own sex. And yes, fictional character can also be gay
Agree completely. Although, I believe he's referring to when it gets over-done to the point of feeling like peddling. I have a gay friend who found the overwhelming amount of horrible LGBT writing (aka gay for the sake of being gay or 'ah surprise, we're gay!') in greymoor to be in very poor taste and it turned them off from the expansion entirely.
Base-game is alright, though, but greymoor went a little overboard imo.
After MSQ during Greymoor i pretty much was absent doing random things. The lore was so boring i never explored it after i finished MSQ. So i never saw that, but yeah lol i also have a friend like that which is super annoying. I thought Op of the comment meant they'd rather no have any representation bc everyone else is doing it. At least what i inferredEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:30AM0 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »
almost every single couple we come across in greymoor is same-sex.
The same scenario of 'help x lover' happened many times in that zone. It's not the concept itself and that minorities don't matter, I just think there comes a time and place where if the majority of your quests in a zone revolve around the same plot point then it's kind of lame.
Can't say I've come across that, and I did all of Greymoor. The most notable relationship quest in Greymoor was the in The Reach when you help Madearn choose whether or not to get married, and thats to a woman.
The most notable same-sex relationship was side quest in Summerset where a man wanted to preserve his partners legacy and you had to choose who took the blame for the event.
iirc, there was one same-sex couple in Western Skyrim with two women about the Jarl's Daughter and her necromancer girlfriend.
I get that they're more frequent then they were in base game, or even in up until Elsweyr but I would hardly call it the "norm" when nearly 70% of ESO's NPCs are in a relationship, and the vast majority of those being hetero.
I highly recommend re-playing greymoor or searching around on here for that thread that details LGBT quests/NPCs in ESO. A lot of them are in Greymoor. Like, a crap ton. Where as in the entire expansion there's only 1 straight couple quest and it's painting the relationship in a toxic/bad light. (The one where the woman literally cares more about the rabbit than the literal life of her husband and basically tells him to go *** die cause how dare he lose her rabbit and risk his life to get it back.)
It's not that it's the norm or anything, I believe it just can feel like peddling when a lot of them are condensed into one expansion.1 -
LeonAkando✭✭✭✭Unknown MMO has Lalafell, which is a big negative. But they also have fat chocobo and fat cat, which are awesome.
Also, their community is...interesting.
Signed,
A SAM somewhere in Cactaur
Lalafel isn't as bad as most Loli races I will say but it really is the worst race and a terrible addition to unknown MMO.
I've played A LOT of Eastern MMOs and Loli races are in almost all of them, usually wearing skimpy underwear and skirts you can look up into, all while being literal children.
I immediately cannot trust anyone who plays those around my own kids.1 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
i think he forgot gay people really exist. It's not peddling if its real. I bet they don't have a problem with King Emmerich and his wife being flirtatious at times or Raz and the Psijic lady flirting bc its normal. Im not like a twitter woke person or anything but representation doesn't mean it's peddling. It just mean people can naturally be attracted to their own sex. And yes, fictional character can also be gay
Agree completely. Although, I believe he's referring to when it gets over-done to the point of feeling like peddling. I have a gay friend who found the overwhelming amount of horrible LGBT writing (aka gay for the sake of being gay or 'ah surprise, we're gay!') in greymoor to be in very poor taste and it turned them off from the expansion entirely.
Base-game is alright, though, but greymoor went a little overboard imo.
After MSQ during Greymoor i pretty much was absent doing random things. The lore was so boring i never explored it after i finished MSQ. So i never saw that, but yeah lol i also have a friend like that which is super annoying. I thought Op of the comment meant they'd rather no have any representation bc everyone else is doing it. At least what i inferred
Ahhh yeah, I took it as he/she didn't want it to be overdone to the point of being an offensive trope almost. Which is what Greymoor practically does if you read the quest lines and talk to certain NPCs.
Since you also have a friend like that; i think there's a point to be made when even LGBT people are turned-off by the jarring, horrific writing of them in greymoor.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:30AM0 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
That is a very loaded and very twisted interpretation of what I am saying.
I'll provide a real world example; My sister is a lesbian she is only 21. She is beyond embarrassed by the fact that people want to constantly push it more and more and more, she just wants to be treated as normal, she knows she is in the minority but also likes it that way in her own words: "why plaster us everywhere like we're some sort of medal to put on a shelf of a company or video game? I want to be normal" ... The only response I had for her is "money & politics". Do you understand? Has anyone bothered to actually ask people its what they want beyond the usual activists? its thoughtless. Of course nobody could possibly believe that the very people they're trying to appropriate would not want it. Nobody likes so much attention being drawn upon them in this way.
I get that you feel dejected by my comment, but do not presume prejudice where there is none.
EDIT: If its going to be done, it must be done tastefully and reasonably and not some sort of mass check box listing.
this is some big mood energy here, as plenty of my friends in the LGBT world feel the same. As mentioned, I have a gay friend who literally will not play greymoor anymore due to how many times he came across random same-sex couples.
It got to a point to where he just wanted to talk to some NPCs we saved from that werewolf world boss in greymoor and OF COURSE it just so happens to be a mom out hunting with her son and his husband that we saved. And, naturally, they have to make sure to mention it.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:30AM1 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭LeonAkando wrote: »Unknown MMO has Lalafell, which is a big negative. But they also have fat chocobo and fat cat, which are awesome.
Also, their community is...interesting.
Signed,
A SAM somewhere in Cactaur
Lalafel isn't as bad as most Loli races I will say but it really is the worst race and a terrible addition to unknown MMO.
I've played A LOT of Eastern MMOs and Loli races are in almost all of them, usually wearing skimpy underwear and skirts you can look up into, all while being literal children.
I immediately cannot trust anyone who plays those around my own kids.
Big mood here too. I genuinely do not trust people who play lalafels tbh.1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
That is a very loaded and very twisted interpretation of what I am saying.
I'll provide a real world example; My sister is a lesbian she is only 21. She is beyond embarrassed by the fact that people want to constantly push it more and more and more, she just wants to be treated as normal, she knows she is in the minority but also likes it that way in her own words: "why plaster us everywhere like we're some sort of medal to put on a shelf of a company or video game? I want to be normal" ... The only response I had for her is "money & politics". Do you understand? Has anyone bothered to actually ask people its what they want beyond the usual activists? its thoughtless. Of course nobody could possibly believe that the very people they're trying to appropriate would not want it. Nobody likes so much attention being drawn upon them in this way.
I get that you feel dejected by my comment, but do not presume prejudice where there is none.
EDIT: If its going to be done, it must be done tastefully and reasonably and not some sort of mass check box listing.
this is some big mood energy here, as plenty of my friends in the LGBT world feel the same. As mentioned, I have a gay friend who literally will not play greymoor anymore due to how many times he came across random same-sex couples.
It got to a point to where he just wanted to talk to some NPCs we saved from that werewolf world boss in greymoor and OF COURSE it just so happens to be a mom out hunting with her son and his husband that we saved. And, naturally, they have to make sure to mention it.
big mood energy? haha I am not sure what you mean by that.
And yeah exactly, the implementation seems really shallow and artificial like they're trying to score points. This is exactly what I mean by check boxes. It happens so much with so many games. Its almost as if they dont know how humans interact at all.
The quest I remember the most that was same sex was the werewolf and his lover in bakorai? I think its there. That had similar moments there was a clear emphasis but I will give the devs credit, it was more or less natural didn't feel like a waggle of the "look what we've done" kind of thing. Was actually an interesting quest all and all.
*sigh* I wish we could just go back to when we just viewed each other as people instead just X sexuality or Identity. People are more than that.
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:31AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.3 -
VampReworkFailed✭✭✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
That is a very loaded and very twisted interpretation of what I am saying.
I'll provide a real world example; My sister is a lesbian she is only 21. She is beyond embarrassed by the fact that people want to constantly push it more and more and more, she just wants to be treated as normal, she knows she is in the minority but also likes it that way in her own words: "why plaster us everywhere like we're some sort of medal to put on a shelf of a company or video game? I want to be normal" ... The only response I had for her is "money & politics". Do you understand? Has anyone bothered to actually ask people its what they want beyond the usual activists? its thoughtless. Of course nobody could possibly believe that the very people they're trying to appropriate would not want it. Nobody likes so much attention being drawn upon them in this way.
I get that you feel dejected by my comment, but do not presume prejudice where there is none.
EDIT: If its going to be done, it must be done tastefully and reasonably and not some sort of mass check box listing.
this is some big mood energy here, as plenty of my friends in the LGBT world feel the same. As mentioned, I have a gay friend who literally will not play greymoor anymore due to how many times he came across random same-sex couples.
It got to a point to where he just wanted to talk to some NPCs we saved from that werewolf world boss in greymoor and OF COURSE it just so happens to be a mom out hunting with her son and his husband that we saved. And, naturally, they have to make sure to mention it.
big mood energy? haha I am not sure what you mean by that.
And yeah exactly, the implementation seems really shallow and artificial like they're trying to score points. This is exactly what I mean by check boxes. It happens so much with so many games. Its almost as if they dont know how humans interact at all.
The quest I remember the most that was same sex was the werewolf and his lover in bakorai? I think its there. That had similar moments there was a clear emphasis but I will give the devs credit, it was more or less natural didn't feel like a waggle of the "look what we've done" kind of thing. Was actually an interesting quest all and all.
*sigh* I wish we could just go back to when we just viewed each other as people instead just X sexuality or Identity. People are more than that.
Ahhh, 'big mood energy' essentially 'damn I feel that'
And yeah, ironically I've had said gay friend say he wishes the greymoor quests were more like that werewolf one in bakorai! They thought it felt so natural and such.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:31AM1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »[snip]
Hard disagree. What is that even supposed to mean? If a group of people is smaller than the majority (less then 51%) then their life doesn't matter and they shouldn't be included in any media?
It's not "peddling" that like 2% of ESO's characters have same-sex marriages. I think that's really cool that ZOS did that before it became convenient/profitable.
I get that some people find it uncomfortable due to their real life prejudices, but every story doesn't have to exactly identical just to cater to that level of fragility.
That is a very loaded and very twisted interpretation of what I am saying.
I'll provide a real world example; My sister is a lesbian she is only 21. She is beyond embarrassed by the fact that people want to constantly push it more and more and more, she just wants to be treated as normal, she knows she is in the minority but also likes it that way in her own words: "why plaster us everywhere like we're some sort of medal to put on a shelf of a company or video game? I want to be normal" ... The only response I had for her is "money & politics". Do you understand? Has anyone bothered to actually ask people its what they want beyond the usual activists? its thoughtless. Of course nobody could possibly believe that the very people they're trying to appropriate would not want it. Nobody likes so much attention being drawn upon them in this way.
I get that you feel dejected by my comment, but do not presume prejudice where there is none.
EDIT: If its going to be done, it must be done tastefully and reasonably and not some sort of mass check box listing.
this is some big mood energy here, as plenty of my friends in the LGBT world feel the same. As mentioned, I have a gay friend who literally will not play greymoor anymore due to how many times he came across random same-sex couples.
It got to a point to where he just wanted to talk to some NPCs we saved from that werewolf world boss in greymoor and OF COURSE it just so happens to be a mom out hunting with her son and his husband that we saved. And, naturally, they have to make sure to mention it.
big mood energy? haha I am not sure what you mean by that.
And yeah exactly, the implementation seems really shallow and artificial like they're trying to score points. This is exactly what I mean by check boxes. It happens so much with so many games. Its almost as if they dont know how humans interact at all.
The quest I remember the most that was same sex was the werewolf and his lover in bakorai? I think its there. That had similar moments there was a clear emphasis but I will give the devs credit, it was more or less natural didn't feel like a waggle of the "look what we've done" kind of thing. Was actually an interesting quest all and all.
*sigh* I wish we could just go back to when we just viewed each other as people instead just X sexuality or Identity. People are more than that.
Ahhh, 'big mood energy' essentially 'damn I feel that'
And yeah, ironically I've had said gay friend say he wishes the greymoor quests were more like that werewolf one in bakorai! They thought it felt so natural and such.
Oh haha, huh that phrase amuses me I might start using it.
Yeah - it was a pretty memorable quest as well (I am terrible with names) but the whole town secretly werewolves, finding that person in that cage holding back a "change" was fun trying to figure it out at the time and all that it was one of those rare side quests that actually had some intrigue to it took me by surprise honestly. I have to say though I think they over did the voice acting a bit, I get that they were trying to convey a contrast like one strong and one weak but good lord man find your erhm....conkers. The voice acting I think was the most distracting part of it really.
Edit: Christ it just dawned on me I did that quest for the first time years ago now hahaEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 8, 2021 10:31AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭its been said, but i veiw myself as a grey beared gandalf now!
puffin' my pipe amused by the non-immortals struggling with the 40k monsters...100k monster....5 million hp monsters.
ahahahaha,
oh! a Balrog!!!! yes, yes, finally!!!
*grabs staff and runs into the fray!*
charrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrge!"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.1 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭generalmyrick wrote: »its been said, but i veiw myself as a grey beared gandalf now!
puffin' my pipe amused by the non-immortals struggling with the 40k monsters...100k monster....5 million hp monsters.
ahahahaha,
oh! a Balrog!!!! yes, yes, finally!!!
*grabs staff and runs into the fray!*
charrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrge!
"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »Let's also not forget that said unnamed MMO gets 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets new abilities every. single. expansion. Oh, and every expansion is connected in story and each lasts 2 years with steady updates throughout.... So the ride feels meaningful.
That's the main thing I think people are missing. This unnamed MMO gets, I'll say it again, 1-2 new races, 2 new classes, and every existing class gets MORE abilities every single expansion.
They do in 1 expansion what it's taken ESO 4+ years to do.(Which is add more variety to existing classes and add more options for players.)
Well, you know that there's a subscription to even have access to download the game, cash shop and expacs every 2 years at full price... And you can get almost everything on eso for gold? And its not the new healer this expac? And didn't they said that they'll stop releasing new races?
Nope, the game has a free trial of up to lvl 60 and includes the entire first DLC. You can play every single class (except for the ones that dont unlock till pass 60) up to level 60 and this also includes life-skills too. Also if we're really going to be upset about a $12 monthly sub after that to just play the game, I feel like if you can't afford to spend $12 a month to have access to such a large game then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in general imo. Also don't forget that having a sub in ESO provides you with a lot of content and a very OP crafting bag.
You can get almost anything in FFXIV for gold, where as in ESO the best cosmetics are locked behind the crownstore. I'm sorry, but are you seriously trying to argue that FFXIV has a worse cashshop than ESO? Seriously? Lol.
ESO's cashshop is quite literally so bad it's the only MMO in the top 5 list that has loot boxes. But go on, feel free to explain in full clarity how FFXIV's cash shop is even comparable.
Like, you do know all of the good mounts in FFXIV and cosmetics can be obtained in game, right? And aren't sold on the cash shop? Like, bruh. Ur really comparing a game where you can get at max 3-ish unique mounts in game from various methods (eso) to FFXIV where they have hundreds of collectable in-game mounts and minions. Each one changes the travel music based on mount thematic btw (:
Its not just 12 on other regions. Lets not forget about that. And i'm not a english native speaker. And you know we'll be able to get anything from lootboxes in the next change, right? And i pay ffxiv, >.>. Some cosmetics can be locked behind a paywall here, but everyone has the chance to get it. You don't need to open your wallet to get that. In exchange, on ffxiv, the BEST glamours are behind a paywall imo and ARE expensive for a piece of virtual cloth. And you know most of its gear is generic.
I've single handedly spent more money buying in-game motifs in ESO than I've spent looking cool on FFXIV. Like, the class armor you can get from raids/dungeons and even the artifact weapon glamours you get are insanely cool looking.
https://imgur.com/a/syx3PId
Like, I can look like this with 100% in-game items.
Gear in eso is more to my taste... >.>. You can look as good with gold here as well or even without that. We got more variety in costumes, skins, and motifs/armors than ffxiv imo. Always felt ffxiv lacking there. 1-50 you look like a beggar.(same-ish gear, not a good gear progression? samey look?) Some jobs you need to use glamour to not look like ***. Its not even funny.
Oh, big agree there. Some jobs do look like *** from my tastes. And the gear until you actually hit like, level 30 looks absolutely gross.
But the issue with the variety of costumes, skins, motifs on ESO is that pretty much all of that can be obtained from the crownstore. Even if you can earn it in game.
hang on. HANG THE FRICK ON. your complain is that there is OPTIONAL ability to buy stuff in crown store? even though its often easier, faster and significantly cheaper to get something in game and getting it in game is THE primary means? having an OPTION to just throw cash at it is your problem? really dude? really?
not exclusives, oh no. you are bothered that there is an OVERLAP. dear. god.
also, I have played final fantasy.
1. it is extremely easy at early levels. its also much MUCH slower then ESO in every possible way. your example with skeevers is lies and more lies, starting with the fact that the earliest you can go into overland is at lvl 3.
2. its free trial has a catch. the moment, THE MOMENT you upgrade? you have to keep paying subscription to acess the game. you have to stay on a trial account to play for free. oh and if you already have an existing account? bought a copy at some point? guess what? don't get a free trial anymore. can't add it to your existing square account, have to create a new square account for that free trial. at least with ESO once I have my base copy, I can play it whenever I feel like, with or without subscription.
and in any case, most of your preferences are just that. preferences. subjective.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
AScarlato✭✭✭✭✭I find the discussion of supposed over-inclusiveness of lgbt characters in Greymoor to be quite bizarre. I honestly only recall straight couples with two exceptions that were not any different than how anyone else is portrayed.
There are the king and queen of solitude. The husband and wife who ran the mining operations. The straight couple at Dragons bridge. The husband and wife of the hold to the south of solitude though their daughter was a lesbian. The man wife and dog in blackreach. You run into a man who loses his wife in the streets during the msq. The reach had multiple quests with straight couples. The primary romance moment was between Lyris and Sai Sahan. Also the Ravenwatch guy and Gwendis who are major characters.
Most of the other quests involved family or simple friendships.
Aside from Freywin there was another lesbian couple for a delve - I think that’s it.
Maybe it says something about your personality op that you overemphasize the few times lgbt chars appear compared to the multitude of straight characters you seem to take for granted.3 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Popularity is just one effect of a mass market, it is no indicator for quality whatsoever. The fact that BigMac's are popular does not mean that they are quality food. The fact that Justin Bieber sold millions of records does not mean that he produces high quality music. "The Lord of the Rings" is the holy grail of fantasy literature, yet it is not very well written by linguistic standards. The fact that billions of flies enjoy eating horse poop.... you get the idea.
As for FF14... really? Quest design? 90% of the game does not even come with voice over. The "cinematic" cut scenes are just anime characters moving their mouths and waving their arms while the actual dialogue is delivered via speech bubbles. The entire world feels like Disney Land, walking cactuses, pokemon style pets, batmobiles, everything wrapped in low res textures and with cute eyes, character animations that look like straight out of a jump'n'run arcade. Don't get me wrong, the game is ok and the world is nice to look at. If that's what floats your boat, then go for it. I enjoy playing it every once in a while. But it is definitely not the place where I would like to spend the rest of my gaming life. And it msot certainly is no reference for features that I would like to see in other games.
Games have different approaches, different limitations and design decisions that they have to focus on. ESO is far from perfect. But it has it's own style and does what it does really well. There is no need to borrow inspiration from anywhere else.
And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon3 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭VampReworkFailed wrote: »Considering the unnamed MMO is, well, unnamed, then we cannot really consider it relevant to the discussion as we cannot discuss it. It would be interesting to know what the discussion is about since I think the regular questing in this game is superior to most MMORPGs I have played. Very well written, voiced. and drawn. As I get better geared and more CP I look forward to getting into the more challenging aspects of the game such as the more serious dungeons and the raids. I have already started working on vet Maelstrom which I find to be a worthy challenge at my lower CP level.
Its final fantasy xiv. And its not THAT good of a game. Its overland is empty, side quests are terrible, and etc. I would trade ffxiv sides quests for eso side quests anytime of the day. And they have such a poor quest design imo. Did i mentioned nobody group up there? It even worse than eso. And c'mon, as a pvp player, how can you say ffxiv is better than eso? ffxiv pvp is terrible.
There's a reason FFXIV is the second most popular MMO behind WoW and far ahead of ESO.
clearly, it is that good of a game lol. PvP sucks tho 100% agree with you there. But that's the thing. The game has way more players and is way more popular than ESO despite having *** PvP. That's uh, kind of insane considering one of ESO's biggest draws is the PvP.
Also their quest design is WAY better than ESO. You don't do 'side' quests to level, you just do the main story and it feels like you're playing a climatic single player rpg at some points. Also, their quests are actually challenging and have memorable story bosses.... where as ESO? Yeah, I don't even remember the final story boss's name from last year.
You are forgetting something here on the matter of popularity; Regional population.
Final Fantasy while having a rather large following in the western market is completely dwarfed by the popularity in the Asian market, in fact I would wager that a large swath perhaps majority are from the Asian region. The reason being is the game is built around Asian video game and cultural designs and appeals to them far more than it does to most western MMO players.
The Asian gaming market is absolutely enormous do not underestimate the full scope of potential and popularity that market of the world can generate, hell that region has one of the largest concentrations of internet cafes in the world specifically for games.
EDIT: I would also add that had WoW not started when it did and FF instead came first its very likely that the roles would be reversed right now for this very reason.
What does region have to do with anything? Still humans enjoying the game and boosting its cred. I'm Asian and never liked FF. before i tried XIV. At the end of the day FF gets more views on twitch than ESO does on the week a new expansion drops. And you're wrong. EU, NA and JAPAN have close populations. NA more so than JP. https://ffxivcensus.com
It has a lot to do with everything. The reason being that the individual I was responding to was citing the sheer popularity of the game, there are reasons behind that reasons that must be acknowledged when making comparisons and thus if one is to fairly make the point of why something is popular they must also naunce their position. It would be completely unreasonable to factor in the asian market (more accurately the eastern market in general).VampReworkFailed wrote: »LeonAkando wrote: »VampReworkFailed wrote: »
Popularity is popularity is all I'm getting from this. It's ESO's fault if they don't want to invest in being able to run effectively over-seas and yet another reason why FFXIV is just flat out better. FFXIV is world-wide. ESO is barely able to be played in EU
ESO is an M rated game, it wouldn't even be legally allowed in Eastern markets. That's why it doesn't try. China is a big market but has extremely strict rules. They'd have to remove nearly all the gore, you'd have to delete every questline that has same sex couples. They may have to edit down any quest's that include swearing.
I like FF a lot, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be able to have basic human rights than neuter everything to appeal to one region.
That's the thing. ESO is an M rated game yet, honestly, is this ever really taken advantage of that much in stories? We don't really have any dark or gruesome stories. They treat the game like it's a rated T game, tbh.
Also, FFXIV has trans, same sex couples, and way more than what ESO peddles.
Frankly I would like all the "peddling" in every game to just stop. We don't need more of it, the world doesn't need more of it. Its all just splitting us apart and gets us nowhere. Quality over check boxes for extremely small groups of people please.
As for your mention of vampire abilities and such in your response to me I would say you are correct, though I think one or two skills need a serious re-think before they do anything with it particularly the one that has a health cost for power, while thematically it works practically its a death sentence and completely unusable save for some odd roleplay I suppose, though even in that position its still very meh.
I showed a friend the vampire lord ultimate, his first comment "wheres the wings >:(" .... the dudes a sucker for flying or just anything that flaps I guess. Maybe they could add some wings? ha.
It has 0 to do with anything. You hedged your bet JP was bigger. You're were wrong. Na is bigger. And just because different people in different region doesn't attribute it to them being of that race. FF actually doesn't take a huge Japanese aesthetic apart from character design. the world is more western then it is eastern with a steampunk aesthetic. Your logic is "eastern people play eastern games". Wrong. Western audiences consume Kpop, anime and general eastern entertainment more so then actual eastern people. I bet you think my room is full of catgirl toys, body pillows and anime posters cos im Eastern? jk lol
There was no need for this, I didn't actually mean to post what I posted initially because when I did write it I was frustrated from fatigue (I haven't slept) which lead to me being hasty I forgot I was even writing it so it ended up in the comment and I also didn't read your comment fully so I edited it immediately to say what I really should of said, we should never respond to each other without reading each others comments fully. That was my error. As proof, vamp actually quoted me right after your comment so you know I didn't just edit right now or something.
You were right, I was wrong, I even admitted so in the edit. Take that for what you will.Edited by xeNNNNN on June 8, 2021 6:31AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.1
This discussion has been closed.