Can we give sorc some group utility buff and stop sorcerer healer bullying?

EF321

Hey,

So, I roll sorcerer healer and people in my raid guild don't mind - they know me, they know I'm good with it, we do all sorts of content, no problem.

But the moment I step into crag pugs, things get ugly. A couple of times, luckily when I was on DD, I saw sorcerer healer verbally abused and straight up kicked before full party was even gathered. I personally was never kicked from a party, but I do get a lot of questions and abuse for being a sorc. Even in something as easy as vAA people go like 'why do we have sorcerer healer??'.

Well, let's see sorcerer healing non-ulti abilities:
Matriarch - is a really good burst heal in huge range that requires no aiming. Does a little passive damage, that is barely relevant. Contrary to popular belief - it can NOT die in group content. But has to be re-summoned if you die, which is annoying.
Power Surge - a heal that procs when you critically heal. I mean, when you randomly do a large heal, it heals even more... I don't even use this morph, personally. It is an overkill.

Neither of healing skills have buffs attached to them.

Sorc class minor buff is really good, but tied to abilities that Sorc DDs use, and there is no shortage of sorc DDs in trials. Only in case if there is no other sorc in group, sorc heal will be very desirable, since crit is so meta.
The only other buff that sorc can give is Minor Intellect via empowered ward, so it is tied to selfish ability that does not benefit group otherwise. For comparison, Warden can bring same Minor Intellect, Endurance and Toughness by casting actual healing ability on allies. Comparing shield abilities, DK shield shields allies, grants minor buff to group, increases healing done, gives ulti to caster as well as even giving some stamina.


While I'm personally doing fine with just basic buffs from common abilities that every other class has access to, I wish I wouldn't have to explain to every random group that we don't need top meta composition if we are not scorepushing.

So how about adding some group buffs to some abilities that sorc healer could use in group content? Just so people would shut up.

zvavi

If it is the only sorc you give group 6% spell crit, or at least should.

nukk3r

I was lucky enough not to get any hate for having a sorc healer in about two years since I rolled the character. But it's a damn shame that people refuse to see classes other than necro and warden as viable options. There's basically nothing that a sorc healer can't do. Also Minor Prophecy is easy to maintain, just slot frags on resto bar.

Hexi

If they made sorc to be on-par with Necro, no one would buy the class unlock for moneis

karekiz

If a group is mad about not being a min max group comp for literally any vet clear, chances are, they probably aren't that great to group with anyway.

code65536

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

redspecter23

Put the matriarch away and use good solid group heals. Burst healing is great in pvp but in a trial, layer your hots. Illustrious Healing, Radiating Regen, orbs. Then use Combat Prayer for a burst heal + damage boost combination. Run group buff sets like SPC to make the group stronger.

Either that or accept that some groups just don't want to see a sorc healer when they could be seeing a warden, templar or necro all of which are typically much more likely to be a strong healer than a sorc.

The other option is to form the group yourself and you get to set all the rules.

PigofSteel

Hots Hots and again Hots.

ArchMikem

I remember the days when I'd get double takes and straight kicks for playing a Magicka Khajiit.

FluffWit

nukk3r wrote: »

I was lucky enough not to get any hate for having a sorc healer in about two years since I rolled the character. But it's a damn shame that people refuse to see classes other than necro and warden as viable options. There's basically nothing that a sorc healer can't do. Also Minor Prophecy is easy to maintain, just slot frags on resto bar.

Eh every class does something useful the others can't. Sorcs give that +6% spell crit. DKs give everyone major brutality and major sorcery. Templars give people back their magic or stamina....

A good start with Sorcs would probably be to have that passive give major brutality and major sorcery.

I'm planning on respecing my stam sorc to mag sorc for Midyear Mayhem just to try something different. My expectations are pretty low but hopefully it works out.

Chaos2088

The original 4 classes do get a few tweaks here and there when patches roll out with their abilities. (Points to templar tanking upcoming patch and sorc crystal stam morph and when DK got some healing morphs)

After a while down the road I do think that the ordinal four will match like warden and necro. You can roll out any class with any roll and be effective in end game content. Some classes will be slightly easier to full fill that role, but nothing to be smeared at.

Think the meta where a class is ruled out of a role will not be a thing in the future.

ThoughtRaven

redspecter23 wrote: »

Put the matriarch away and use good solid group heals. Burst healing is great in pvp but in a trial, layer your hots. Illustrious Healing, Radiating Regen, orbs. Then use Combat Prayer for a burst heal + damage boost combination. Run group buff sets like SPC to make the group stronger.

This is awful advice. Don't bring a sorcs best heal as a healer? You can keep all the usual HoTs + combat prayer buff up while still keeping flappy bird around as an oh *** button. And in vet trials, even easy ones, you will sometimes need an oh *** button.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

I beg to differ. Nightblades have a powerful single target burst heal, a class aoe heal over time, and a class aoe burst heal, which makes them very well suited for healing smaller groups in my experience playing one (unfortunately their aoe heal over time is a bit narrow, making trials healing a bit more challenging). They're my pick for healing stamina groups as well as they provide the weapon critical as a buff. Sorcerers on the other hand, only have matriarch and power surge, but they do at least have the benefit of being able to provide group spell crit buff if no other sorcs are present.

redspecter23

ThoughtRaven wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Put the matriarch away and use good solid group heals. Burst healing is great in pvp but in a trial, layer your hots. Illustrious Healing, Radiating Regen, orbs. Then use Combat Prayer for a burst heal + damage boost combination. Run group buff sets like SPC to make the group stronger.

This is awful advice. Don't bring a sorcs best heal as a healer? You can keep all the usual HoTs + combat prayer buff up while still keeping flappy bird around as an oh *** button. And in vet trials, even easy ones, you will sometimes need an oh *** button.

If you feel that is the best heal a sorc has, we will agree to disagree to an extreme extent.

Supreme_Atromancer

Trying to make every class/role combination have an answer to meta is an arms race that ZOS cannot win.

Sorcerer Healer can heal the vast, if not all content in the game - meta runs for super optimisation are for people who are happy to play optimised at the cost of freedom to play however they want. It isn't something ZOS should be designing for. The people complaining about a sorcerer healer in Aetherian Archive are sorely misguided and not worth listening to because they are missing the point. If you want to, take 30 seconds to explain it to them, otherwise, find better people to run with. I pugged a lot on my sorcerer healer and never once had a complaint.

Sadly, I have to agree that my Matriarch doesn't get worked hard. In vCR sometimes to get a tank out of baneful, but even then there's sometimes better options.

In PvP matriarch is a liability because she dies pretty easy and when you're reaching for those op heals and you're stuck in a 1-second cast time, its usually a death sentence, or even a wipe. These days there are so many better things to run in pvp where sorc healers are amazing for groups.

Where my matriarch DOES get some air time is in 4-person content, where I can use her to heal through big damage, but otherwise mostly be contributing damage. Its a fun playstyle.

Starlight_Whisper

Sorc has least utility out of all the classes. There was once a chart that showed how bad it is.

#buffpowerSurge

WrathOfInnos

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.

I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.

Zodiarkslayer

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.

I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.

Agreed. But you have to admit: it is not easy.
And because it isn't most players who try will fail at it. Therefore creating the general image, that sorc healing is a bad thing in dungeons or trials.

dsalter

as someone who likes healing as a sorc from time to time, making power surge apply a group wide minor vitality and possibly giving healing flappers attacks life steal debuff would go a long way into making sorc feel unique via healing.
otherwise rolling both liquid and flood lighting into one morph and creating a new one that heals would be a great addition to the tool kit since it would be one of the longest ranged AoE heals in the game and having both morphs of the damage one become a singular morph i can 100% other DD sorcs would praise this move as well

EF321

dsalter wrote: »

as someone who likes healing as a sorc from time to time, making power surge apply a group wide minor vitality and possibly giving healing flappers attacks life steal debuff would go a long way into making sorc feel unique via healing.

Yes, I was thinking something like this. Not something completely game changing, but just enough for people to know there are certain benefits of having a sorc healer.

WrathOfInnos

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.

I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.

Agreed. But you have to admit: it is not easy.
And because it isn't most players who try will fail at it. Therefore creating the general image, that sorc healing is a bad thing in dungeons or trials.

Yep, it’s not an easy class to heal with. The Matriarch is nice for dungeons, but in trials they rely mostly on resto skills and healing orb to keep everyone alive. Still I’d put Sorc healer above Templar, Dragonknight or Nightblade for utility.

Iccotak

The truth is that the original classes are geared towards specific roles while the new classes have more versatility in the role they can play.

Sure Templars can Tank - as I do play one - but Dragonknights toolkits are obviously more suited to the role, just as Templars are more suited to Healers than Dragonknights are.

The old classes do not have "Tank-DPS-Healer" Skill lines, to do so would require extreme major overhauls

Beardimus

Hear you pain. Had to remain mine to Heals-With-Pets to stop auto boots even from v dungs lol.

Pugs be pugs tho. Kinda have to ignore them if they like that or ask to be given a chance and prove them wrong. I do roll orbs, used to round fountain and agree about overlapping Illus etc. Matriarch is a burst heal but not the go to.

But unsure you after setup more just calling out biased folks are the problem?

Starlight_Whisper

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.

I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.

Warden has stamina Regain and the same Magicka Regain as Sorc....

This along with power surge needs a fix

Starlight_Whisper

Iccotak wrote: »

The truth is that the original classes are geared towards specific roles while the new classes have more versatility in the role they can play.

Sure Templars can Tank - as I do play one - but Dragonknights toolkits are obviously more suited to the role, just as Templars are more suited to Healers than Dragonknights are.

The old classes do not have "Tank-DPS-Healer" Skill lines, to do so would require extreme major overhauls

Nightblade does though. Also let's stay on focus we just want more utility.

WrathOfInnos

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.

I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.

Warden has stamina Regain and the same Magicka Regain as Sorc....

This along with power surge needs a fix

Enchanted Growth only hits 6, has a narrow conal area, and is not smart about choosing targets without the buff. So it’s only equally effective if the group is perfectly positioned in two stacks of 6 so everyone gets the buff with no wasted casts. Empowered Ward gives Intellect to 12 players within 28 meters in all directions with one cast.

Minor Endurance is not a class-specific buff, anyone can provide it with circle of protection.

axi

Negate or atleast healing morph applying major berserk to everyone inside

WrathOfInnos

axi wrote: »

Negate or atleast healing morph applying major berserk to everyone inside

Haha, it would be nice to get some utility for Negate in PVE. It seems like it’s been forgotten and doesn’t apply to any mechanics made in the last several years.

axi

Other idea , Energy Overload attacks applying major magickastreal for few seconds instead of restoring magicka.

Starlight_Whisper

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.

Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...

Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.

I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.

Warden has stamina Regain and the same Magicka Regain as Sorc....

This along with power surge needs a fix

Enchanted Growth only hits 6, has a narrow conal area, and is not smart about choosing targets without the buff. So it’s only equally effective if the group is perfectly positioned in two stacks of 6 so everyone gets the buff with no wasted casts. Empowered Ward gives Intellect to 12 players within 28 meters in all directions with one cast.

Minor Endurance is not a class-specific buff, anyone can provide it with circle of protection.

Minor endurance is tiniest heal skill in game.

Enchanted growth isn't narrow if you stand behind group. It triangle like cone that pretty much hits anyone.

Even so warden minor intellect and endurance last longer and both are on one skill.

Starlight_Whisper

axi wrote: »

Other idea , Energy Overload attacks applying major magickastreal for few seconds instead of restoring magicka.

My sorc tank does not approve of this. How about giving everyone Magicka including self.