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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Can we give sorc some group utility buff and stop sorcerer healer bullying?
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Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »
🤣 Worst is when you see trash mobs run out of it in newer dungeons.1 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.
Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...
I beg to differ. Nightblades have a powerful single target burst heal, a class aoe heal over time, and a class aoe burst heal, which makes them very well suited for healing smaller groups in my experience playing one (unfortunately their aoe heal over time is a bit narrow, making trials healing a bit more challenging). They're my pick for healing stamina groups as well as they provide the weapon critical as a buff. Sorcerers on the other hand, only have matriarch and power surge, but they do at least have the benefit of being able to provide group spell crit buff if no other sorcs are present.
Nightblade also has speed buff, minor cowardare, pen debuff, minor vulnerability, over Charged, and I believe even suddener1 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
This is excatly what major magickasteal is doing. Giving magicka to everyone who attacks enemy affected with it. Minor magickasteal gives up to 170mag/sec so major would be somwhere around 350-400.Edited by axi on May 17, 2021 11:09AM1 -
jane_01215✭✭In my opinion there is more fundamental problem which is hurting not only sorc but all healers. Sorc healers could have been great option if groups facing harder content needed sustained high HPS output.
But the way group contents are designed is that most deaths are by oneshots which can't be healed anyway and damages that can be healed aren't serious to the extent that 90% overheal is common thing. People get crazy about 10% damage buff but they don't care about 12% heal buff (how many healers are wearing Sanctuary set?). What they need are technically not healers but supports - a.k.a buffbots.
Nothing is wrong with support healers, but the fact that we don't see as many support DDs clearly indicates that healing is the most broken part of gameplay. There should be multiple ways to fix this problem. I personally would like to see a gear set which converts certain % of overheal to damage shield that can accumulate enough strength for oneshots.
Giving healers the ability to shield against oneshots could make the role more viable in general. Sorc healers, specifically, could enjoy their potential for incredible sustain.3 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
This is excatly what major magickasteal is doing. Giving magicka to everyone who attacks enemy affected with it. Minor magickasteal gives up to 170mag/sec so majow would be somwhere around 350-400.
Isn't like 100 currently no?0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭jane_01215 wrote: »In my opinion there is more fundamental problem which is hurting not only sorc but all healers. Sorc healers could have been great option if groups facing harder content needed sustained high HPS output.
But the way group contents are designed is that most deaths are by oneshots which can't be healed anyway and damages that can be healed aren't serious to the extent that 90% overheal is common thing. People get crazy about 10% damage buff but they don't care about 12% heal buff (how many healers are wearing Sanctuary set?). What they need are technically not healers but supports - a.k.a buffbots.
Nothing is wrong with support healers, but the fact that we don't see as many support DDs clearly indicates that healing is the most broken part of gameplay. There should be multiple ways to fix this problem. I personally would like to see a gear set which converts certain % of overheal to damage shield that can accumulate enough strength for oneshots.
Giving healers the ability to shield against oneshots could make the role more viable in general. Sorc healers, specifically, could enjoy their potential for incredible sustain.
Yep further proof is more and more healers are just going for damage litterally. There's no sustain tests for healing anymore....0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.
Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...
Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.
I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.
Warden has stamina Regain and the same Magicka Regain as Sorc....
This along with power surge needs a fix
Enchanted Growth only hits 6, has a narrow conal area, and is not smart about choosing targets without the buff. So it’s only equally effective if the group is perfectly positioned in two stacks of 6 so everyone gets the buff with no wasted casts. Empowered Ward gives Intellect to 12 players within 28 meters in all directions with one cast.
Minor Endurance is not a class-specific buff, anyone can provide it with circle of protection.
Minor endurance is tiniest heal skill in game.
Enchanted growth isn't narrow if you stand behind group. It triangle like cone that pretty much hits anyone.
Even so warden minor intellect and endurance last longer and both are on one skill.
Here's an idea give op warden only minor endurance and let minor intellect be for sorc.2 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
This is excatly what major magickasteal is doing. Giving magicka to everyone who attacks enemy affected with it. Minor magickasteal gives up to 170mag/sec so majow would be somwhere around 350-400.
Isn't like 100 currently no?
Minor is 168 currently.1 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
This is excatly what major magickasteal is doing. Giving magicka to everyone who attacks enemy affected with it. Minor magickasteal gives up to 170mag/sec so majow would be somwhere around 350-400.
Isn't like 100 currently no?
Minor is 168 currently.
I think minor vulnerability might be better on overload. Like how does class with shock damage not have this. In turn it potentially give bar space to crowded sorc healer0 -
ForeverJenn✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.
Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...
Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.
I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.
Agreed. But you have to admit: it is not easy.
And because it isn't most players who try will fail at it. Therefore creating the general image, that sorc healing is a bad thing in dungeons or trials.
Yep, it’s not an easy class to heal with. The Matriarch is nice for dungeons, but in trials they rely mostly on resto skills and healing orb to keep everyone alive. Still I’d put Sorc healer above Templar, Dragonknight or Nightblade for utility.
Lol. Nightblade healing used to be good but it's been long nerfed into the ground. Close tie in last place with the DK healer. But I'll put a templar healer over the Sorc simply causr BoL is one skill slot and Martiarch eats 2.0 -
ForeverJenn✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
This is excatly what major magickasteal is doing. Giving magicka to everyone who attacks enemy affected with it. Minor magickasteal gives up to 170mag/sec so majow would be somwhere around 350-400.
Isn't like 100 currently no?
Minor is 168 currently.
I think minor vulnerability might be better on overload. Like how does class with shock damage not have this. In turn it potentially give bar space to crowded sorc healer
Shouldn't someone be running crusher or a shock staff tho?Edited by ForeverJenn on May 18, 2021 10:55PM0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am all for increasing the group utility of all of the original class healers.
Sorcerer, in particular, would also benefit from more actual healing abilities, as the native toolkit is quite limited.
Power Surge presents an amazing opportunity to to make several different improvements in one change. Currently, the skill is highly mediocre, functioning as sort of a demi-HoT that is saddled with an awkward proc condition and poor targeting.
Reducing the cooldown to, at a maximum, two seconds, is a necessity, but really, lowering it down to a single second would be the best solution of all. That way it can function as a traditional AoE HoT that can heal every member of a 12-player party every two seconds (e.g. first 6 then last 6).
Finally, appending a useful buff to the Power Surge heal would really make it worth using, with buffs such as Minor Vitality, Minor Force, Minor Berserk, Minor Evasion or even Minor Heroism being idea candidates. The tuning should be for a short duration (e.g. 5 seconds) so as to incentivize the caster to lean into Critical Chance as their means of providing high uptime on the buff to the group. Targeting should also prioritize targets with the least amount of time remaining on their buffs if all targets are at full HP.1 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Uh, what? Some groups will use sorc supports (either healer or tank) if they don't have any damage dealers playing sorc.
Now, Nightblade healers... that's the one that actually needs some help...
Agree with this, because every group needs Minor Prophecy for 6% Spell Crit.
I’ll add that a Sorc healer is better than a Sorc DPS for the group because they can give everyone Minor Intellect with Empowered Ward every 10s (which hits 12 group members, so is easier to keep up 100% than a Warden with Enchanted Growth). Sorc healer also has Crystal Weapon, which is a valuable armor debuff to help groups reach the penetration cap (especially in the upcoming patch with Piercing CP halved). It’s a little difficult to manage with a 5s duration and requiring good light attack weaving, but results in about 2% group DPS increase when done right. A stam sorc could use this as well, but no mag sorc would give up Crystal Fragments for this morph, so a healer support is very nice to have in Magicka groups.
Warden has stamina Regain and the same Magicka Regain as Sorc....
This along with power surge needs a fix
Enchanted Growth only hits 6, has a narrow conal area, and is not smart about choosing targets without the buff. So it’s only equally effective if the group is perfectly positioned in two stacks of 6 so everyone gets the buff with no wasted casts. Empowered Ward gives Intellect to 12 players within 28 meters in all directions with one cast.
Minor Endurance is not a class-specific buff, anyone can provide it with circle of protection.
Minor endurance is tiniest heal skill in game.
Enchanted growth isn't narrow if you stand behind group. It triangle like cone that pretty much hits anyone.
Even so warden minor intellect and endurance last longer and both are on one skill.
Here's an idea give op warden only minor endurance and let minor intellect be for sorc.
Sorc already have minor intellect for group with Empowered Ward.0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I am all for increasing the group utility of all of the original class healers.
Sorcerer, in particular, would also benefit from more actual healing abilities, as the native toolkit is quite limited.
Power Surge presents an amazing opportunity to to make several different improvements in one change. Currently, the skill is highly mediocre, functioning as sort of a demi-HoT that is saddled with an awkward proc condition and poor targeting.
Reducing the cooldown to, at a maximum, two seconds, is a necessity, but really, lowering it down to a single second would be the best solution of all. That way it can function as a traditional AoE HoT that can heal every member of a 12-player party every two seconds (e.g. first 6 then last 6).
Finally, appending a useful buff to the Power Surge heal would really make it worth using, with buffs such as Minor Vitality, Minor Force, Minor Berserk, Minor Evasion or even Minor Heroism being idea candidates. The tuning should be for a short duration (e.g. 5 seconds) so as to incentivize the caster to lean into Critical Chance as their means of providing high uptime on the buff to the group. Targeting should also prioritize targets with the least amount of time remaining on their buffs if all targets are at full HP.
Warden has buffs lasting 20 secs or more for most part. Still I agree something more for power surge would make world of difference1
