Nerfed Companions? Opinion poll!

DarcyMardin

No! They're already weak.

Kesstryl wrote: »

This is probably why companion healing was nerfed, an elite youtuber and theory crafter was able to get some decent heals out of his companion. The trouble is, most of us non-elites won't be able to do this. The game really is being tweaked for the top 1%.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nTM4tOL6UAw

I saw that video a few days ago (along with a different one from another well-known streamer that said similar things) and I had the same thought as you when I read the patch notes.

But those dudes are highly skilled players who were healing their companions themselves to keep them alive. It’s not as if they *need* a healer to defeat those bosses. Needless to say, these vids, while entertaining, have almost nothing to do with the ordinary ESO player’s experience with companions. As I can testify myself, having tested companions exhaustively and been very disappointed in their performance in all possible roles.

Dragonredux

No! They're already weak.

Xebov wrote: »

Compared to that there is not a single skill mentioned that got its cooldown reduced or effect increased in any way.

Actually this might be the only buff I see. Don't know how particularly useful it is...

Vanish now heals your Companion to full health when used.

It's like trying to find a gem in a pile of garbage.

jwellsub17_ESO2

Ahh I don't see those as nerfs;

Twilight Mantle heals Mirri to full heath (vanish).
Companions will now attempt to dodge while at low health (no stam issue)
Companions will now properly block stun and knockback.
Flow now increases healing done and decreases cool down
Damage mitigation from armor has been fixed (in theory)

I see them as attempts to balance something, before it goes live.

coop500

No! They're already weak.

jwellsub17_ESO2 wrote: »

Ahh I don't see those as nerfs;

Twilight Mantle heals Mirri to full heath (vanish).
Companions will now attempt to dodge while at low health (no stam issue)
Companions will now properly block stun and knockback.
Flow now increases healing done and decreases cool down
Damage mitigation from armor has been fixed (in theory)

I see them as attempts to balance something, before it goes live.

Most of those are bug fixes and do not really help in the grand scale of things. Companions are squishy and can't avoid damage well enough because they are a robot and do not have split second reflexes that most content outside of overland requires.

And pardon, but you don't... see decreasing the effectiveness of a skill with no upsides or buffs to it as a nerf?

Tannus15

Has anyone actually tested the companion changes or is this just patch note panic?

coop500

No! They're already weak.

Tannus15 wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested the companion changes or is this just patch note panic?

How is it patch note panic when something that already was worthless was made more worthless... ?

opaj

Tannus15 wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested the companion changes or is this just patch note panic?

So far? Looks like patch note panic to me.

I don't have a lot of hope for companions based on the patch notes, but we don't get to drag ZOS over the coals for this patch before we've even tested it, especially if we're just going to ignore the damage mitigation changes mentioned in the notes.

jwellsub17_ESO2

Tannus15 wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested the companion changes or is this just patch note panic?

Haven't done much testing, but so far Bastian is performing better than he was two weeks ago. I need to adjust Mirri's rotation, but she does not appear to be any weaker than previous incarnations.

Please note that I am testing this round using templates and fully leveled Mirri and normal leveled Bastian.

jwellsub17_ESO2

coop500 wrote: »

And pardon, but you don't... see decreasing the effectiveness of a skill with no upsides or buffs to it as a nerf?

Not unless it had gone live already.

Unlike most people who complain about MMORPGs, I don't consider anything to be a nerf unless it is a true reduction from what we have already. In this case, we have not had companions on live yet, so there is no nerf, instead they will be a buff for the vast majority of casual players.

Additionally from my, admittedly limited, testing, Bastian is doing better today than he was two weeks ago.

Zulera301

No! They're already weak.

Summerset sold me with jewelry crafting and Greymoor sold me with antiquities, but while companions are cute and definitely have the potential to be fun, but right now they're about as useful as Maurice Jondrelle from TESV's Gildergreen quest (read: not at all). that coupled with what Im seeing from this expac, just means that I'll pass on pre-ordering it and I'll just snag it when it goes on sale for 67% off instead.

Tannus15

coop500 wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested the companion changes or is this just patch note panic?

How is it patch note panic when something that already was worthless was made more worthless... ?

I mean, I read the notes and thought to myself "seems weird, they are already weak" but I still prefer to base my opinion on some actual data. Most of the things people were noting was that they are standing in AOE's and not blocking heavy attacks so they get 1 shot constantly
If they are blocking heavies and roll dodging out of AOE's once their health drops then maybe, even with some clear nerfs to their healing skills, they are significantly better? I don't know, maybe I should investigate this before I form a strong opinion.

Icy_Waffles

This post blessed me.

Weak addition to game nerfed even before launch.

Classic. ZOS’d.

Stevie6

Make companions a rental service for dungeons. Hire them out, pay them a fee, send them on their way. They only show up at your designated and take on a class roll. Like another poster said, it’s not needed for overland and would more than likely contribute to server lag.

BlueRaven

No! They're already weak.

Look, at this point companions have been so heavily advertised as a selling point, it seems fruitless to suggest maybe Zos should just rethink their mechanics and hold them off until a further update.

Blackwood LOOKS great visually, it seems to have interesting storyline, and the new player houses look nice, but mechanics wise everything in this update is so awful. It is just bad. This has to be the WORST patch I have ever seen, and I am still fuming about Bosmers losing stealth.
The nerf on proc sets, the nerf to cp, the nerf to group sizes, and companions being relegated FROM possibly being a useful tool to just a rather mediocre diversion.

There is nothing really in this update to look forward to. Yeah the zone is nice, but it brings along a lot of really awful baggage with it.

jrgray93

Those skills needed a nerf but they need to be buffed in other ways.

I voted the wrong one by accident. Should have just gone with flat-out no.

Companions are just passive skills with more steps.

Rkindaleft

No! They're already weak.

Companions ALREADY suck. They die to everything, the skill cooldowns make them basically useless for anything outside of questing, (but who needs help with quests?) and they make the decision to nerf them. The roll dodge buff doesn't make up for the fact that once breathed on, they die. The absolutely need some base resistance buffs.

Honestly I see companions as dead on release content if they go live like this. They will be a hindrance instead of an assistance to anyone except RPers who avoid combat looking for extra immersion, which is absolutely not what was advertised.

Malthorne

No! They're already weak.

Seems like companions will be more a hassle than fun at this point.

Fennwitty

Overall it looks (from the patch notes) like mostly buffs to the companions' personal survivability through AI changes.

Some reductions in buffs that boost *both* companions and players healing and damage together. So maybe trying to head off concerns even more that "healers are useless."

But if the ones that keep them alive longer work, then it's a buff to absolutely every ability the companions have. Because they're not dead 90% of the time.

NoxiousBlight

No! They're already weak.

Tannus15 wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested the companion changes or is this just patch note panic?

Just got done on the PTS. The roll dodge improvements are barely noticeable.

The only time it helps is when your companion is standing in AoE and a mob targets them with a direct damage attack at melee, then they will roll backwards, sometimes out of the AoE. If they are not targeted they just stand in the AoE and die.

In some cases the roll dodging makes things worse. In mob dense areas (such as public dungeons) it often causes them to roll back multiple times pulling the mobs with them. In one instance Mirri caused the mobs to reset because she rolled backwards so much.

The "fix" to their armor is 100% unnoticeable. Even in full heavy they still melt. A pack of 3 overland mobs can almost take them down unless you slot multiple heals.

The only saving grace is the reduction of the timer on Mirri's 25% heal so she only stays in stealth 3 seconds instead of 6. Seemed to help slightly, but the AoE is still a huge problem and their hp drops pretty quickly.

Conclusion: After 3 weeks on PTS they still just feel like a gimmick rather than something enjoyable and useful. If they had good DPS and you could kit them out as a glass cannon it would be fine if they died a lot, but as it stands now their DPS is barely noticeable and they still die a lot. Companions need 50% damage mitigation across the board. If it goes live like this then everyone will be using them with a resto staff to derive some sort of benefit from them before they inevitably die.

Wolf_Eye

No! They're already weak.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Look, at this point companions have been so heavily advertised as a selling point, it seems fruitless to suggest maybe Zos should just rethink their mechanics and hold them off until a further update.

Blackwood LOOKS great visually, it seems to have interesting storyline, and the new player houses look nice, but mechanics wise everything in this update is so awful. It is just bad. This has to be the WORST patch I have ever seen, and I am still fuming about Bosmers losing stealth.
The nerf on proc sets, the nerf to cp, the nerf to group sizes, and companions being relegated FROM possibly being a useful tool to just a rather mediocre diversion.

There is nothing really in this update to look forward to. Yeah the zone is nice, but it brings along a lot of really awful baggage with it.

I have to agree. I was kind of looking forward to companions but all this just seems depressing. There is nothing in this update that I have to look forward to except maybe the two new houses (the one next to the water is very pretty) and some of the new furnishings. Terrible companions, terrible nerfs, permanent removal of the tutorial stories, a new tutorial that just doesn't quite hit the mark...just....tiring all around. I'm not sure about you, but I feel very exhausted at the moment. And what's worse is that I already pre-ordered a month ago.

Oh well. At least there will be pretty scenery to look at in the update.

newtinmpls

Other

As long as they can't use "normal" armor and equipment, I will not be interested.

ArcVelarian

No! They're already weak.

I'm increasingly convinced that the Devs dont give a cluck because they're on their way out the door anyway because of the Microsoft acquisition. It would go a long way towards explaining whatever this PTS cycle is...

Tharonil

No! They're already weak.

The dodge roll backwards doesn't sound like a good idea.
Companions will reset world bosses many times.

Also I really liked the idea of companions re-entering the combat automatically, after they got knocked out. Hopefully this will find a way in the game.

Ryuvain

No! They're already weak.

Wow... so anyways how about those new antiquities? That's the only thing that still holds interest to me now.

echo2omega

No! They're already weak.

What content are companions intended to perform?
What are the developer expectations? What are the player expectations?

Overland?
Public dungeons?
Normal Dungeons?
Normal DLC dungeons?
Veteran Dungeons?
Veteran DLC dungeons?
Veteran Dungeon hard modes?
Veteran DLC Dungeon hard modes?
Normal Trials?
Veteran Trials?
Veteran Trials hard modes?

Are the companions able to perform the mechanics (in many cases REQUIRED) in order to complete the content?

Are the companions competent in the assigned role?
Can a tank companion sufficient tank?
Can a healing companion sufficiently heal?

And lastly.
Can a DPS companion sufficiently DPS?
The answer to the last one is sticky. The difference between bad DPS and amazing DPS is the grand canyon of difference. Both are visible from space. IF companion DPS is too low. NO ONE will want a DPS companion along for the ride. Too good and no one will want bad/poor/average/good DPS along for the ride. Which is a HUGE dilemma.



In comparison. The companions in SWTOR are competent. (in fact at one point they nerfed companions because they were so good. Sad days for healer abounded)
The tank, healer, and DPS companions are fully able to complete flashpoints (dungeons) Even the hard ones too. I know I have done it. The difference there is the gap between bad and good is substantially narrower. While a player is certainly preferable the companions are still very capable. Lost a player? No biggie someone pulls out a companion and its back to business as usual.



So what are the player expectations?
I can only speak for myself. But I expect that a tank/heal/DPS companion is fully competent in the role assigned. I would say up to and including all of the veteran DLC dungeons.

BalticBlues

No! They're already weak.

Tamriel Companions


Blackwood Companions


ZOS, players do not want to CARRY COMPANIONS through dungeons.
ZOS, players do not want to CARRY COMPANION GEAR for them.

ZOS, at least give companions a 60-slot-newbie-inventory for their Companion Gear.
This "Companion Inventory" could be shared among all companions for QoL.

Ekzorka

Since all people who is happy about the companions are think only about the romance and outfits, ZoS could nerf them to 0 dps, hps and resistant, because the target auditory isn't interested in combat and numbers.

remosito

No! They're already weak.

ZOS is just being nice ppl and make my decision to not buy chapter and not renew my eso+ really easy...

Toxic_Hemlock

Other

Long time lurker, seldom poster.

I have not tested on the current test server (no HDD space) so I can't give an opinion as to the weakness/strengths of the companions. That said I have bought the chapter in hopes that the companions are in a descent state when they are released. Reading these posts it seems to me they are not even close. Maybe a small breakdown of what a casual user like myself would find helpful might let the dev team know what I would like in a companion:

First and foremost they need to take some damage, mitigation and/or armor; if all I am doing is ressing them 5 times during even overland fights they may as well stay in their wrapper.

Second, if I assign them a role they damn well better be descent at it out of the box. If they are set to tank I expect them to taunt and generally keep the heat away from me as a DPS. Healers need to stay out of the way and heal.. and DPS, well, you get the picture.

Third and just as important, they need to improve majorly as they get higher level. If they are a bit squishy at starting levels (not one hit killed from an overland trash mob however) then some babysitting is fine. BUT if they are a tank I expect them to be able to survive against multiple enemies at higher levels, even if their damage is less than garbage.

My main takeaway from this post is this: Make them survivable or else this entire companion chapter is a wash to me. You have shown that you can do this with summoned pets, I can see no reason for you to make them worse here!

ApoAlaia

I don't care about companions I just came to see the results.

Given the current 'state' of companions my educated guess is that they don't want to make them a 'prominent feature/staple', at least not yet until they are 'released in the wild' and they have a few weeks/months of data to look at from the live servers.

These are constructs, they are not subjected to human limitations and by 'existing' on the actual server they do not experience latency or lag.

They may not be able to improvise, adapt or show true initiative (yet) however they can be perfectly capable of 'doing mechanics', 'stepping out of stupid' or reacting to any other predictable event better than the average player, if nothing else because they can 'get the relevant information' they have to account for/react to instantly and precisely; the only reason why they do not do so is because they have not been programmed to do so.

The days of the 'silly bots' that get stuck on the terrain are numbered and the time of bots learning and playing better than humans will ever be able to, at least on predictable, repeatable encounters (which is 99% of PvE) are just around the corner.

The perceived lack of competence and effectiveness from the current iteration of companions is very much 'by design', not a consequence of the limitations imposed by the construct.

The adjustments made during the PTS therefore must be due to their performance exceeding the intended target.