Viewing people's gear

Aertew · May 2021

Was thinking how it would be cool to have a fight tourtament where players go stage 4 vampires and have no gear equiped and use only fists. Then I realized enforcing the no gear rule is kinda hard since you can't check people's gear. Would be cool if we could since WoW and FF14 let you.

If ZOS is worried about it having a negative effect mabye make it a option.
It would also be great if you saw someone that had a new piece of gear and you wanted to check it out.

colossalvoids · May 2021

Pretty pointless if you wanted "ask about new gear you saw on someone" as it's overrode by outfit or a costume 99% of times and we don't really have anything like wow to show off in that department anyway. It would be used only in pvp tournaments (if people even wanna come to the place where your build would be disclosed) or in pug to put a blame on someone with suboptimal setup.

You can ask people anyway via whisper, most would answer/link without any problem in both pve and pvp.

kargen27 · May 2021

If you make it optional then it really doesn't work for checking before a duel.

You seem very intent on turning this game into FF.

Ryuvain · May 2021

I can already see the excessive petty kicking. "Healer doesn't have full gold and spc." Before the group even moves.

Danikat · May 2021

If what you ultimately want is a tournament where no one can use any gear then I think a better way to do it would be for ZOS to build an arena which automatically disables any gear you are wearing when you go in. That avoids all the usual complaints and problems with an inspection feature, which has always been very unpopular on this forum, and saves players the hassle of unequipping and reequipping all their gear when they want to play that mode.

Snowstrider · May 2021

Yea its pretty lackluster when there is no inspect option.. I am fine without it but it would be a fun thing to have

not only looking at what gear people have but being able to look what motif and outfit styles they got on and maybe even being able to have a bio of your character both for RP and other stuff that encourages social interactions and group play.

LalMirchi · May 2021

No thank you.

_Zathras_ · May 2021

Aertew wrote: »

Would be cool if we could since WoW and FF14 let you.

No.

Gear discrimination is very real in WoW. It adds even more toxicity to their community.

If you want that, you know where to find it. ESO doesn't need that "feature".

paulsimonps · May 2021

Considering how "upset" people get when you simply ask them if they needed or want to sell their loot. I highly doubt adding something like this would go over well in this community.

Snowstrider · May 2021

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

Would be cool if we could since WoW and FF14 let you.

No.

Gear discrimination is very real in WoW. It adds even more toxicity to their community.

If you want that, you know where to find it. ESO doesn't need that "feature".

As if we already doesnt have that in ESO lol lets not pretend there is no elitist attitude in the community

_Zathras_ · May 2021

Snowstrider wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

Would be cool if we could since WoW and FF14 let you.

No.

Gear discrimination is very real in WoW. It adds even more toxicity to their community.

If you want that, you know where to find it. ESO doesn't need that "feature".

As if we already doesnt have that in ESO lol lets not pretend there is no elitist attitude in the community

Can you quote me where I was suggesting that ESO doesn't have toxic elements? Let's not derail the convo, and create a straw man.

WoW has an online Armory which anyone can access to delve into your character: what they did, what they are wearing, and with a new baked-in feature to integrate RaidIO, a score based on all that. It is a highly contentious sore point in the WoW community, which Ion has utterly embraced.

"Oh, your RIO is only <blah blah blah>?" <group kick> <raid kick> <guild kick>

People also use it to eviscerate players in chat, and the forums. Why? Because they can. In conversations that have nothing to do with achievements and gear, people will pull up your stats and invalidate you. Then people will gang up on you and do the same thing. You will be harassed, and there is no in-game moderation or forum moderation to stop them.

So, that can stay over there. It has no place in ESO.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 2021

Aertew wrote: »

Was thinking how it would be cool to have a fight tourtament where players go stage 4 vampires and have no gear equiped and use only fists. Then I realized enforcing the no gear rule is kinda hard since you can't check people's gear. Would be cool if we could since WoW and FF14 let you. If ZOS is worried about it having a negative effect mabye make it a option.
It would also be great if you saw someone that had a new piece of gear and you wanted to check it out.

@Aertew

you can actually view anyone in group with you during a fight's gear using Esologs. (I believe this might be PC only though?)

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2021

Enabling this option would bring nothing good imho. Only toxicity...

Simple example: I queue as a DPS / Tank / Healer for ANY dungeon and:
- I don't want to show my gear - I get kicked.
- I show my gear and it is not BiS & Golded - I got kicked too.
- I show my gear and it is BiS & Golded - I get kicked also because people are jealous...

This also applies to LFG for Trial and going to do content with a guild or even forming a group in PvP as only people with best gear will be chosen. The others will be excluded.

Sylvermynx · May 2021

Was really really happy ESO didn't have this after playing WoW and RIFT.... Not interested in having it added here.

VaranisArano · May 2021

If you want no gear equipped for your tournament just have it be a naked boxing match with no outfits or costumes. Maybe let people wear their guild tabard for modesty's sake.

But that doesn't let you inspect other's people gear, which I suspect was the main point of this request.

Viewsfrom6ix · May 2021

I would like it BUT only as opt-in. Make it easier to share builds and sets.

Shantu · May 2021

The nefarious need to leverage technology to deny privacy by spying on the personal choices of others is a problem in this society. For god's sake, if you want to know something, just ask.

RedMuse · May 2021

No. And optional isn't really an option either because then you'd just get kicked for having it off. Thanks, but no thanks. Game has enough nosy addons as it is, we don't need to make it part of the game officially.

Tesman85 · May 2021

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Can you quote me where I was suggesting that ESO doesn't have toxic elements? Let's not derail the convo, and create a straw man.

WoW has an online Armory which anyone can access to delve into your character: what they did, what they are wearing, and with a new baked-in feature to integrate RaidIO, a score based on all that. It is a highly contentious sore point in the WoW community, which Ion has utterly embraced.

"Oh, your RIO is only <blah blah blah>?" <group kick> <raid kick> <guild kick>

People also use it to eviscerate players in chat, and the forums. Why? Because they can. In conversations that have nothing to do with achievements and gear, people will pull up your stats and invalidate you. Then people will gang up on you and do the same thing. You will be harassed, and there is no in-game moderation or forum moderation to stop them.

So, that can stay over there. It has no place in ESO.

WoW is seriously like that? Looks like I've been in luck since no MMO has interested me before ESO. I wonder why anyone would want to play in such an environment. But sadly, knowing human nature that kind of thing is quite predictable. So I also oppose a feature like this. There seems to be enough elitism in ESO already with CP points, DPS scores etc, without adding one more layer.

Soulshine · May 2021

Well, one way I have gotten somewhat around this mystery is by my add ons. Some add ons for the game will show you buff icons when you hover your cursor over someone's character. Long term buffs that come from item sets are an easy way to tell that someone has at least got some things they should bring to the table. Another thing you can see is their PvP rank, since even if they have no title showing in their name the rank is also visible, that alone is worth the price of admission. When I do BGs, I scan my cursor over each party member to see who has the highest rank. When that bell rings, I know who is going to rip and run.

_Zathras_ · May 2021

Tesman85 wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Can you quote me where I was suggesting that ESO doesn't have toxic elements? Let's not derail the convo, and create a straw man.

WoW has an online Armory which anyone can access to delve into your character: what they did, what they are wearing, and with a new baked-in feature to integrate RaidIO, a score based on all that. It is a highly contentious sore point in the WoW community, which Ion has utterly embraced.

"Oh, your RIO is only <blah blah blah>?" <group kick> <raid kick> <guild kick>

People also use it to eviscerate players in chat, and the forums. Why? Because they can. In conversations that have nothing to do with achievements and gear, people will pull up your stats and invalidate you. Then people will gang up on you and do the same thing. You will be harassed, and there is no in-game moderation or forum moderation to stop them.

So, that can stay over there. It has no place in ESO.

WoW is seriously like that?

Yes, it very much is. I took a break from here last year, and went back to WoW to see the changes and expansions of the last 10 years. I spent 7 months there, and left. It is so much more toxic than it used to be because of the RaidIO, and level of competitiveness that Ion has encouraged.

furiouslog · May 2021

You can see everyone's gear right now via the /encounterlog command, if the players have opted in to sharing the data and you are grouped with them. Everyone who is concerned about getting kicked due to "spying" - you already have that "problem" today. If you have not run into it yet, then it's probably not actually a real issue.

I think it's fine to disallow sharing that info, since competitive PVPers might want to conceal their builds.

Sylvermynx · May 2021

Tesman85 wrote: »

WoW is seriously like that?.

I haven't played WoW since 2013 - but the only way my family and friends (with whom I played and was the Guildmaster for our guilds on two servers - Icecrown and Shadowsong) ever got a raid or instance run together was "just us", because we didn't mess with meta. And yes, it was VERY toxic toward the end of my stay there - to the point where people would whisper me out of nowhere that I should GTFO so someone else could make a "better character" (not that there was any problem on either server as far as ability to make characters since it wasn't limited except to how many characters you could make per account/server) - and other stuff even worse. Also happened to others in the family.

Sister still plays some, daughter went back when Classic released but quit again when she hit 40. Both of them are still not happy with the amount of toxicity flying around.

Kiralyn2000 · May 2021

Aertew wrote: »

Was thinking how it would be cool to have a fight tourtament where players go stage 4 vampires and have no gear equiped and use only fists. Then I realized enforcing the no gear rule is kinda hard since you can't check people's gear. Would be cool if we could since WoW and FF14 let you. If ZOS is worried about it having a negative effect mabye make it a option.

Unfortunately (as you've now seen) the local culture is fanatically against /inspect.

[snip]

I find the idea of people whispering me to ask about something I'm wearing (or having to whisper them... /brrr) much more intrustive/icky than people being able to inspect my gear. Likely due to a combination of me being antisocial & the fact I've never played at a high enough level where toxic people obsess over your build.

[Edited for Baiting]

AlnilamE · May 2021

Unless people are wearing costumes/outfits, it's pretty easy to tell if they are not wearing any gear. Just use your eyes.

AlnilamE · May 2021

furiouslog wrote: »

You can see everyone's gear right now via the /encounterlog command, if the players have opted in to sharing the data and you are grouped with them. Everyone who is concerned about getting kicked due to "spying" - you already have that "problem" today. If you have not run into it yet, then it's probably not actually a real issue.

I think it's fine to disallow sharing that info, since competitive PVPers might want to conceal their builds.

Or it's an extremely convoluted process that only end-game raiders know about.

Like, if I pugged a group for a dungeon and decided to run encounterlog at the first fight to check what gear people are wearing, they'd be half-way through the dungeon before I was done uploading and looking at the website...

Tesman85 · May 2021

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

WoW is seriously like that?.

I haven't played WoW since 2013 - but the only way my family and friends (with whom I played and was the Guildmaster for our guilds on two servers - Icecrown and Shadowsong) ever got a raid or instance run together was "just us", because we didn't mess with meta. And yes, it was VERY toxic toward the end of my stay there - to the point where people would whisper me out of nowhere that I should GTFO so someone else could make a "better character" (not that there was any problem on either server as far as ability to make characters since it wasn't limited except to how many characters you could make per account/server) - and other stuff even worse. Also happened to others in the family.

Sister still plays some, daughter went back when Classic released but quit again when she hit 40. Both of them are still not happy with the amount of toxicity flying around.

Sounds awful, no wonder you quit! If it's any comfort, people who behave like that must be miserable themselves. Leaving and letting them wallow in their own poison is the best course of action. I've heard that Eve Online is a full of rude people and bullies, but never realized that WoW could also be that bad. I wonder what was the starting point for the culture there to veer this far in the wrong direction? I only hope ESO stays the (relatively) friendly place it is.

furiouslog · May 2021

AlnilamE wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

You can see everyone's gear right now via the /encounterlog command, if the players have opted in to sharing the data and you are grouped with them. Everyone who is concerned about getting kicked due to "spying" - you already have that "problem" today. If you have not run into it yet, then it's probably not actually a real issue.

I think it's fine to disallow sharing that info, since competitive PVPers might want to conceal their builds.

Or it's an extremely convoluted process that only end-game raiders know about.

Like, if I pugged a group for a dungeon and decided to run encounterlog at the first fight to check what gear people are wearing, they'd be half-way through the dungeon before I was done uploading and looking at the website...

That's exactly why it's not a problem. It would be rare that anyone is going to go through the effort, but anyone who cares about gear due to the context will, e.g. a vSS pug setting up in Craglorn. Some will do a gear check on the support roles, because that can influence success.

You can actually run it before you go in and upload as a live log, and just leave it on. It's not difficult or convoluted. It takes maybe 15-30 seconds to set up before you queue. No one does it though, unless they are doing something that would warrant doing that in the first place. Anyone who understands ESOlogs well enough is not tracking pugs and kicking people for lousy gear in a random normal unless they are some sort of nosy control freak. If anyone gets kicked it's usually because they are not doing their job or they are being toxic or something.

I run it in PVP sometimes, because you can learn things from the combat logs that are pretty useful, in addition to seeing the builds in your group, which can be instructive.

Inaya · May 2021

Tesman85 wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Can you quote me where I was suggesting that ESO doesn't have toxic elements? Let's not derail the convo, and create a straw man.

WoW has an online Armory which anyone can access to delve into your character: what they did, what they are wearing, and with a new baked-in feature to integrate RaidIO, a score based on all that. It is a highly contentious sore point in the WoW community, which Ion has utterly embraced.

"Oh, your RIO is only <blah blah blah>?" <group kick> <raid kick> <guild kick>

People also use it to eviscerate players in chat, and the forums. Why? Because they can. In conversations that have nothing to do with achievements and gear, people will pull up your stats and invalidate you. Then people will gang up on you and do the same thing. You will be harassed, and there is no in-game moderation or forum moderation to stop them.

So, that can stay over there. It has no place in ESO.

WoW is seriously like that? Looks like I've been in luck since no MMO has interested me before ESO. I wonder why anyone would want to play in such an environment. But sadly, knowing human nature that kind of thing is quite predictable. So I also oppose a feature like this. There seems to be enough elitism in ESO already with CP points, DPS scores etc, without adding one more layer.

Yes it seriously is like that and when I left 2 years ago (after playing since Vanilla) it had only gotten worse. Don't dare ask where something is or for help on something as you will get told "ever heard of google noob" or "git gud".

If your RIO score is not what they want it to be you will be kicked (if you're lucky with no one saying a word) tho most of the time they've looked you up and won't even be asked.

It's become a sewer.

RedMuse · May 2021

furiouslog wrote: »

You can see everyone's gear right now via the /encounterlog command, if the players have opted in to sharing the data and you are grouped with them. Everyone who is concerned about getting kicked due to "spying" - you already have that "problem" today. If you have not run into it yet, then it's probably not actually a real issue.

I think it's fine to disallow sharing that info, since competitive PVPers might want to conceal their builds.

Yes I know there's already a problem, but why insist on making an already existing problem worse? Instead things like this should be removed from the game since the player base as a whole clearly can't handle the responsibility.

JKorr · May 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

Was thinking how it would be cool to have a fight tourtament where players go stage 4 vampires and have no gear equiped and use only fists. Then I realized enforcing the no gear rule is kinda hard since you can't check people's gear. Would be cool if we could since WoW and FF14 let you. If ZOS is worried about it having a negative effect mabye make it a option.

Unfortunately (as you've now seen) the local culture is fanatically against /inspect.

[snip]

I find the idea of people whispering me to ask about something I'm wearing (or having to whisper them... /brrr) much more intrustive/icky than people being able to inspect my gear. Likely due to a combination of me being antisocial & the fact I've never played at a high enough level where toxic people obsess over your build.

[Edited for Baiting]

I see your character in town, and think the gear you're wearing looks great, and I love the dyes you used. I whisper to ask about it. You can take the compliment and answer, or read the compliment and ignore me. No huge hassle either way. You whisper me to ask what on Nirn I'm wearing. I can reply or ignore you. No huge hassle either way.

Personally I'm fine if someone notices my gear and wants to know what style I used, or what dyes I used. Asking what loot I got in the last dungeon, or what I just deposited in my bank, yeah, that would be over the line.