Bump Sithis resistances up to 5,280 or 5,940 and call it a day.

Langeston

I think ZOS went a bit too far here with the nerf-hammer.

If the armor rating were bumped up just a bit, it would increase the set's viability without making it a no-brainer to slot (as it was before the nerf.) 5,280/5,940 armor equates to 8%/9% damage mitigation, and this is susceptible to being reduced by penetration — unlike block mitigation (which you lose entirely just by slotting the helm). You're also losing the ability to use a monster set, which is another big minus. Personally, I think the drawbacks to Sithis are more substantial than a lot of people realize.

Just my 2¢.

AgentUriel

4,000 armor alone makes me wonder too. I'm not saying I wouldn't try to use it but min maxing for pvp makes me outright wonder if I should even bother digging up the pieces when I already have malacath or ring of the wild hunt. Those have definite bonuses in pvp while this "mythic" taking up a monster helm slot, which I thought was supposed to be strong because of getting in the way of the monster sets, and is now... What? Ok?
You can't even take it seriously in pve where else is it supposed to shine?
However to be fair I don't want everyone running around with it at it's original value but this was a hefty nerf and frankly I was a bit hyped. I mean a mythic should be the cornerstone of your build if and when you use it to maximize your own build.

Whining over and thank you ZoS for the patch anyway because I think it was a step in the right direction overall!

kookster

Sithis went from a no brainer pick to I probably wont use it, if they were to bump the armor values up a bit to 5,280 or 5,940 I would consider it for certain builds.

TLDR: I agree a minor armor buff wouldn't be bad now.

coop500

I wonder if ZOS did it out of spite from all the whining.

xylena_lazarow

This is fine. To me the Mythics should be niche, not meta defining. If Gaze was someone's only reason to buy Blackwood, then it's Blackwood content that needs a buff, not PvP magsorc/stamblade.

Langeston

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is fine. To me the Mythics should be niche, not meta defining. If Gaze was someone's only reason to buy Blackwood, then it's Blackwood content that needs a buff, not PvP magsorc/stamblade.

So 1280-1940 resistance is all it takes to go from niche to "meta defining"?

Um, ok.

YandereGirlfriend

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is fine. To me the Mythics should be niche, not meta defining. If Gaze was someone's only reason to buy Blackwood, then it's Blackwood content that needs a buff, not PvP magsorc/stamblade.

Most of the sets from the Chapter are pretty underwhelming, it's not just Sithis.

Septimus_Magna

Ring of the fete gives 2640 heath without the disadvantage of not being able to block. Compared to 3276 health of gaze of sithis its looking a lot better in terms of survivability (and a small dmg boost) for PVE at least.

OlumoGarbag

Sithis is worth the 5 piece bonus of beekeper, plague doctor and fortified brass combined. I think its pretty much at a good place. I wouldnt minď a small increase in one of the 3 stats tho to make is really good. Since monster sets arent as good anymore on a lot of builds i think sithis could make a fine 1 piece set. Torc and malacath will also be a equally solid choice.

Brrrofski

coop500 wrote: »

I wonder if ZOS did it out of spite from all the whining.

By whining you mean people asking to not let an absolutely broken item being introduced in the game.

Because if you didn't think that item was broken you're in dream land.

Bashev

Langeston wrote: »

I think ZOS went a bit too far here with the nerf-hammer.

If the armor rating were bumped up just a bit, it would increase the set's viability without making it a no-brainer to slot (as it was before the nerf.) 5,280/5,940 armor equates to 8%/9% damage mitigation, and this is susceptible to being reduced by penetration — unlike block mitigation (which you lose entirely just by slotting the helm). You're also losing the ability to use a monster set, which is another big minus. Personally, I think the drawbacks to Sithis are more substantial than a lot of people realize.

Just my 2¢.

@Langeston I am just wondering on what build do you want to use it? According to me this sets will work extremely well on sorc and nbs. It is just the design of the set. If you buff it to be good on other classes then it means it will be extremely OP for sorcs and NBs.

Firstmep

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is fine. To me the Mythics should be niche, not meta defining. If Gaze was someone's only reason to buy Blackwood, then it's Blackwood content that needs a buff, not PvP magsorc/stamblade.

Most of the sets from the Chapter are pretty underwhelming, it's not just Sithis.

Hard disaggree. Heartland conqueror is looking like a pretty top notch and interesting set for pvp, Deadlands Assasin is likely to become a meta proc, frostbite has some interesting uses too.
Some of the new trial sets are also really nice, the medium armor one could be bis for solo arenas, the heavy is really powerful and let's tanks use a different ult from horn.
The mythics are also not all terrible, there is definetly a use case for most of them.

Ryuvain

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

ResidentContrarian

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

Firstmep

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

This.
The whole point of the set is to build around everything it does, including no block mitigation.
That's how all mythics should work, not just I put this one item on and now I'm unkillable.
The whole monster set argument is also weak as hell, we have so many ways to build our toons these days..

Ryuvain

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

Chudan also frees a bar slot, and can't falloff during a fight or stun. Nb I really like it in since if you aren't heavy armor your major resolve won't last long.

Also my point was also towards pve along with pvp.

Just saying that I (ME ONLY) wouldn't use it because it doesnt look good TO ME.

Bashev

Ryuvain wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

IDK what are you talking. In ESO we have so many options to build for PvP. Off course some options are broken and really strong (like pre nerfed Sithis). Such broken OP gear has no place in the game.

Malacath after the nerf is equal to spectral cloak with 20% crit chance (very easy to achieve even in no-CP). With spectral cloak you will get 6% damage mitigation too.

Ryuvain

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

IDK what are you talking. In ESO we have so many options to build for PvP. Off course some options are broken and really strong (like pre nerfed Sithis). Such broken OP gear has no place in the game.

Malacath after the nerf is equal to spectral cloak with 20% crit chance (very easy to achieve even in no-CP). With spectral cloak you will get 6% damage mitigation too.

Spectral cloak isn't a mythic, one piece, and doesn't ignore enemy crit resist?

Bashev

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

IDK what are you talking. In ESO we have so many options to build for PvP. Off course some options are broken and really strong (like pre nerfed Sithis). Such broken OP gear has no place in the game.

Malacath after the nerf is equal to spectral cloak with 20% crit chance (very easy to achieve even in no-CP). With spectral cloak you will get 6% damage mitigation too.

Spectral cloak isn't a mythic, one piece, and doesn't ignore enemy crit resist?

That is why you can get 103 stamina recovery and 6% damage mitigation to compensate for another slot. Malacath was really strong because it buffed the proc sets. Now with the new proc scaling you need an offensive built to reach this values so a lot of things will be changed. (I expect more tweaks in the proc scaling too).

@Ryuvain on what build do you want to use Sithis set?

Ryuvain

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

IDK what are you talking. In ESO we have so many options to build for PvP. Off course some options are broken and really strong (like pre nerfed Sithis). Such broken OP gear has no place in the game.

Malacath after the nerf is equal to spectral cloak with 20% crit chance (very easy to achieve even in no-CP). With spectral cloak you will get 6% damage mitigation too.

Spectral cloak isn't a mythic, one piece, and doesn't ignore enemy crit resist?

That is why you can get 103 stamina recovery and 6% damage mitigation to compensate for another slot. Malacath was really strong because it buffed the proc sets. Now with the new proc scaling you need an offensive built to reach this values so a lot of things will be changed. (I expect more tweaks in the proc scaling too).

@Ryuvain on what build do you want to use Sithis set?

Doesn't malacath still buff proc sets? Don't think devs removed that. Also it will work with crit procs too, might have to test how it is on pts again.

Used Sithis on a sorc tank and nightblade werewolf solo build. Worked great on both, but that was before the nerf.

Tested right alongside that new flesh armor monster helm and shapeshifters chain for the werewolf. They were close. Sithis can take hits much better compared to the other build, but when I block Sithis was blown away by block mitigation. I guess that's a fair trade since block costs resource.

PvP I didn't test. But it seemed to be counterable with Balorgh and good penetration. Without armor they're dead since they can't block. All theory though. Might try this later too.

Didn't say pre nerf Sithis was balanced. (For pvp anyway.) Just to me, nerfed Sithis isnt good enough to trade a monster helm effect, block mitigation, AND a different mythic for.

Tommy_The_Gun

Trading block mitigation for passive resistance is the whole idea behind this set. Right now you basically trade 60% block mitigation for 5% mitigation...

That is kinda "bad" trade-off, even for builds that do not block much (especially if you consider that you can not use monster set with it) and even builds that do not block would probably use other mythic.

Health bonus is nice, but it is not something that will make people to use this set over other mythic.

Health recovery is a "meh" stat in pve and irrelevant stat in pvp - so it kinda feels like a "dead weight". It does not contribute to anything relevant and only increases this set power budget. It might as well be removed and no one will notice...

Gaze of sithis, although it is a "stat dense" set, has a key feature (trading block mitigation for passive armour) that people are interested the most, but with it's current value - it is too weak (considering flaws of this set). It should at least be 10% mitigation (7 - 8k).

Some ideas:
- Since 10K was too strong and 4K is too weak, armour value can be a % modifier instead of flat value. That will make Heavy Armour builds to have more benefit and at the same time it will prevent squishy dps / burst builds to have too good resistances (like Stan NB, Sorcs etc).

For example, if it was something between 30% - 50% it would mean that if you have 20K Armour, you will get 6k - 10k, but if you have 10K armour, you will get 3k - 5k.

- Other idea is to make the armour value to somehow scale with amount of dmg you can block. So you will lose block mitigation, but the more you had (for example sturdy traits) - you will have more flat mitigation (of course it won't be 1:1 convention, but a % of it). So, you would still have to specialize in blocking in some way to have more armour value.

Bashev

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

IDK what are you talking. In ESO we have so many options to build for PvP. Off course some options are broken and really strong (like pre nerfed Sithis). Such broken OP gear has no place in the game.

Malacath after the nerf is equal to spectral cloak with 20% crit chance (very easy to achieve even in no-CP). With spectral cloak you will get 6% damage mitigation too.

Spectral cloak isn't a mythic, one piece, and doesn't ignore enemy crit resist?

That is why you can get 103 stamina recovery and 6% damage mitigation to compensate for another slot. Malacath was really strong because it buffed the proc sets. Now with the new proc scaling you need an offensive built to reach this values so a lot of things will be changed. (I expect more tweaks in the proc scaling too).

@Ryuvain on what build do you want to use Sithis set?

Doesn't malacath still buff proc sets? Don't think devs removed that. Also it will work with crit procs too, might have to test how it is on pts again.

Used Sithis on a sorc tank and nightblade werewolf solo build. Worked great on both, but that was before the nerf.

Tested right alongside that new flesh armor monster helm and shapeshifters chain for the werewolf. They were close. Sithis can take hits much better compared to the other build, but when I block Sithis was blown away by block mitigation. I guess that's a fair trade since block costs resource.

PvP I didn't test. But it seemed to be counterable with Balorgh and good penetration. Without armor they're dead since they can't block. All theory though. Might try this later too.

Didn't say pre nerf Sithis was balanced. (For pvp anyway.) Just to me, nerfed Sithis isnt good enough to trade a monster helm effect, block mitigation, AND a different mythic for.

Malacath will buff proc sets and proc sets cannot crit. The scaling of the proc is different.

So you tested the mythic item on the classes that is most broken. Why the mythic is synergize so well it is clear to any competent players. You made a sorc tank that can mitigate the damage with shields then max health, max resistance is exactly what you need. WW they dont block neither, their heal scales with health and the 10k resistance was awesome, right? Guess what it was too much OP.

For reference this is my tank build that I did and it was quite enjoyable for Vet Dungeons --> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460190/tank-sorcerer-need-advice-and-opinion/p1

Ryuvain

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

IDK what are you talking. In ESO we have so many options to build for PvP. Off course some options are broken and really strong (like pre nerfed Sithis). Such broken OP gear has no place in the game.

Malacath after the nerf is equal to spectral cloak with 20% crit chance (very easy to achieve even in no-CP). With spectral cloak you will get 6% damage mitigation too.

Spectral cloak isn't a mythic, one piece, and doesn't ignore enemy crit resist?

That is why you can get 103 stamina recovery and 6% damage mitigation to compensate for another slot. Malacath was really strong because it buffed the proc sets. Now with the new proc scaling you need an offensive built to reach this values so a lot of things will be changed. (I expect more tweaks in the proc scaling too).

@Ryuvain on what build do you want to use Sithis set?

Doesn't malacath still buff proc sets? Don't think devs removed that. Also it will work with crit procs too, might have to test how it is on pts again.

Used Sithis on a sorc tank and nightblade werewolf solo build. Worked great on both, but that was before the nerf.

Tested right alongside that new flesh armor monster helm and shapeshifters chain for the werewolf. They were close. Sithis can take hits much better compared to the other build, but when I block Sithis was blown away by block mitigation. I guess that's a fair trade since block costs resource.

PvP I didn't test. But it seemed to be counterable with Balorgh and good penetration. Without armor they're dead since they can't block. All theory though. Might try this later too.

Didn't say pre nerf Sithis was balanced. (For pvp anyway.) Just to me, nerfed Sithis isnt good enough to trade a monster helm effect, block mitigation, AND a different mythic for.

Malacath will buff proc sets and proc sets cannot crit. The scaling of the proc is different.

So you tested the mythic item on the classes that is most broken. Why the mythic is synergize so well it is clear to any competent players. You made a sorc tank that can mitigate the damage with shields then max health, max resistance is exactly what you need. WW they dont block neither, their heal scales with health and the 10k resistance was awesome, right? Guess what it was too much OP.

For reference this is my tank build that I did and it was quite enjoyable for Vet Dungeons --> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460190/tank-sorcerer-need-advice-and-opinion/p1

On the crit part; I mean that malacath now works with all sets that trigger off a crit.

I think you also missed the part where I said it was even with a different setup. When blocking that other setup took virtually no damage at all. Sithis still takes more damage, but I guess doesn't have to slow down. That block tank also uses shields and has near armor cap without sithis, so how was it broken with sithis?

Same with werewolf, if boss did a heavy attack blocking on the other set reduced way more damage than it did with sithis face tanking.

At least pve-wise I considered them balanced. PvP is another story, balance there is already a mess. Also didn't test pvp on pts.

Bashev

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Disagree.

Ryuvain wrote: »

Chudan is still miles better imo. Sithis nerfed state I can't see using when I could use Chudan which is major resolve 5900ish armor+ one piece bonus armor + another mythic+ no block penalty.

Sithis being just 6000 armor I still wouldn't use.

Except you can stack major resolve and gaze. Except you can still use 1-piece for resistances if you cared. Except gaze also gives more hp and gives hp regen.

Again, block is still not much of a loss when you can use absorb projectile/reflect mechanics, roll dodge exists, damage shields exists, etc.

You all continue to pretend that isn't the case, and that a Gaze of Sithis buff is needed or the nerf wasn't warranted. The problem is nearly all of those mechanics that exist that make block irrelevant can be tied to skills that either provide absolute defense in some scenarios (removing the need for block) OR are attached to damage skills, like damage shields on leap and brawler for example.

That's ignoring that anyone that plays ranged can gain a massive amount of defense, stay at a range, and just put on a reflect and keep their distance with little penalty.

Some people mentioned slotting meteor like it matters, but it doesn't when ball of lightning and cloak both absorb the meteor, and even if you didn't have that you should have access to at least one damage shield that is sufficient enough to absorb either all or most of the meteor damage that you can use. If not, that then becomes a build issue more than it is for the 1-piece, and you would know exactly why you don't have such a shield capable of doing so - because you stacked all offense after slotting gaze.

You know I said imo right? Also, don't underestimate sets like Balorgh or Malacath which still add a ton of offense that you can't get otherwise.

IDK what are you talking. In ESO we have so many options to build for PvP. Off course some options are broken and really strong (like pre nerfed Sithis). Such broken OP gear has no place in the game.

Malacath after the nerf is equal to spectral cloak with 20% crit chance (very easy to achieve even in no-CP). With spectral cloak you will get 6% damage mitigation too.

Spectral cloak isn't a mythic, one piece, and doesn't ignore enemy crit resist?

That is why you can get 103 stamina recovery and 6% damage mitigation to compensate for another slot. Malacath was really strong because it buffed the proc sets. Now with the new proc scaling you need an offensive built to reach this values so a lot of things will be changed. (I expect more tweaks in the proc scaling too).

@Ryuvain on what build do you want to use Sithis set?

Doesn't malacath still buff proc sets? Don't think devs removed that. Also it will work with crit procs too, might have to test how it is on pts again.

Used Sithis on a sorc tank and nightblade werewolf solo build. Worked great on both, but that was before the nerf.

Tested right alongside that new flesh armor monster helm and shapeshifters chain for the werewolf. They were close. Sithis can take hits much better compared to the other build, but when I block Sithis was blown away by block mitigation. I guess that's a fair trade since block costs resource.

PvP I didn't test. But it seemed to be counterable with Balorgh and good penetration. Without armor they're dead since they can't block. All theory though. Might try this later too.

Didn't say pre nerf Sithis was balanced. (For pvp anyway.) Just to me, nerfed Sithis isnt good enough to trade a monster helm effect, block mitigation, AND a different mythic for.

Malacath will buff proc sets and proc sets cannot crit. The scaling of the proc is different.

So you tested the mythic item on the classes that is most broken. Why the mythic is synergize so well it is clear to any competent players. You made a sorc tank that can mitigate the damage with shields then max health, max resistance is exactly what you need. WW they dont block neither, their heal scales with health and the 10k resistance was awesome, right? Guess what it was too much OP.

For reference this is my tank build that I did and it was quite enjoyable for Vet Dungeons --> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460190/tank-sorcerer-need-advice-and-opinion/p1

On the crit part; I mean that malacath now works with all sets that trigger off a crit.

I think you also missed the part where I said it was even with a different setup. When blocking that other setup took virtually no damage at all. Sithis still takes more damage, but I guess doesn't have to slow down. That block tank also uses shields and has near armor cap without sithis, so how was it broken with sithis?

Same with werewolf, if boss did a heavy attack blocking on the other set reduced way more damage than it did with sithis face tanking.

At least pve-wise I considered them balanced. PvP is another story, balance there is already a mess. Also didn't test pvp on pts.

Sets are OP in PvP. I am not a big PvEer myself, i play sometime for fun but some people said that a lot of hard mode no deaths achievements will be way easier with sithis.

xylena_lazarow

Langeston wrote: »

So 1280-1940 resistance is all it takes to go from niche to "meta defining"?

I meant the first iteration, but it's like you want this item to be mandatory BiS for PvP magsorc/stamblade.

Langeston

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

So 1280-1940 resistance is all it takes to go from niche to "meta defining"?

I meant the first iteration, but it's like you want this item to be mandatory BiS for PvP magsorc/stamblade.

Well that certainly isn't how your comment reads, considering that my post is specifically about the present iteration.

Do you seriously believe that 1280-1940 armor is all it would take to make Sithis "mandatory BiS for PvP magsorc/stamblade"? 🤨

Are you always this hyperbolic?

xylena_lazarow

Langeston wrote: »

Are you always this hyperbolic?

Maybe. If an extra 2k armor is no big deal, why do you want it so bad? You probably know what the armor vs EHP curve really looks like, and which builds benefit the most from it. Do we really need to make the rich richer?

Langeston

Bashev wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I think ZOS went a bit too far here with the nerf-hammer.

If the armor rating were bumped up just a bit, it would increase the set's viability without making it a no-brainer to slot (as it was before the nerf.) 5,280/5,940 armor equates to 8%/9% damage mitigation, and this is susceptible to being reduced by penetration — unlike block mitigation (which you lose entirely just by slotting the helm). You're also losing the ability to use a monster set, which is another big minus. Personally, I think the drawbacks to Sithis are more substantial than a lot of people realize.

Just my 2¢.

@Langeston I am just wondering on what build do you want to use it? According to me this sets will work extremely well on sorc and nbs. It is just the design of the set. If you buff it to be good on other classes then it means it will be extremely OP for sorcs and NBs.

I don't know that I intend to use it at all, to be honest. In fact, right now I'm not even sure if I'm going to buy the new chapter right away (if I do at all.) I was just throwing my 2¢ in, that's all.

At this point I'm kind of disgusted with ZOS's inability to finely tune anything, and their hamfisted approach to "balancing" hasn't left me with the impression that they're even capable of success in that regard.

I've been playing the game for 3 years now and I'm still waiting on ZOS to complete the class skill audit they were in the middle of before they decided to run off and create a "dot meta" for no good reason.

Seems like it's always one step forward and two steps back with them, and I'm pretty much over it.

Langeston

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Are you always this hyperbolic?

Maybe. If an extra 2k armor is no big deal, why do you want it so bad? You probably know what the armor vs EHP curve really looks like, and which builds benefit the most from it. Do we really need to make the rich richer?

I don't "want it so bad." In fact, I don't know that I'd use it at all.

It's impossible to have a conversation with you — this is the third time you've [incorrectly] attributed motive and/or intent to me, and it's getting tiresome.

FYI: Exaggerated claims and putting words in people's mouths is not healthy debate.

xylena_lazarow

Langeston wrote: »

I don't "want it so bad." In fact, I don't know that I'd use it at all.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. What did you want to do with Gaze that you now can't?

As a stamsorc/stamblade player, I stood to benefit a lot from this set's original iteration, yet I am very happy to see it nerfed. I did not like feeling forced to buy this expansion to keep my favorite spec competitive (some would say P2W there), and I am tired of metas defined by a few busted sets.

Bashev

Langeston wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I think ZOS went a bit too far here with the nerf-hammer.

If the armor rating were bumped up just a bit, it would increase the set's viability without making it a no-brainer to slot (as it was before the nerf.) 5,280/5,940 armor equates to 8%/9% damage mitigation, and this is susceptible to being reduced by penetration — unlike block mitigation (which you lose entirely just by slotting the helm). You're also losing the ability to use a monster set, which is another big minus. Personally, I think the drawbacks to Sithis are more substantial than a lot of people realize.

Just my 2¢.

@Langeston I am just wondering on what build do you want to use it? According to me this sets will work extremely well on sorc and nbs. It is just the design of the set. If you buff it to be good on other classes then it means it will be extremely OP for sorcs and NBs.

I don't know that I intend to use it at all, to be honest. In fact, right now I'm not even sure if I'm going to buy the new chapter right away (if I do at all.) I was just throwing my 2¢ in, that's all.

At this point I'm kind of disgusted with ZOS's inability to finely tune anything, and their hamfisted approach to "balancing" hasn't left me with the impression that they're even capable of success in that regard.

I've been playing the game for 3 years now and I'm still waiting on ZOS to complete the class skill audit they were in the middle of before they decided to run off and create a "dot meta" for no good reason.

Seems like it's always one step forward and two steps back with them, and I'm pretty much over it.

The big issues is the design of that item. As I said it many times if this item is good on DK for example it will be godlike on Sorcs and NBs (PvP).