Permanent companions (for 2+2) in Group Finder?

BalticBlues

I'd like to team up with a friend to do normal Daily Dungeons with companions to level them up and see how they work in different dungeons: 2 human players + 2 AI players. I know this is possible if we travel directly to a dungeon. However, if we would be using Group Finder to give us a daily RANDOM dungeon to earn the 10 daily Transmute Crystals, our companions would be AUTO REPLACED by human players who are LFG, if I understand correctly.

Would it please be possible to avoid this auto replacement to keep active companions permanent?

Suggestion: If an EXISTING GROUP (with a Group Leader) is using Group Finder, there should be NO AUTO replacement of active companions. Human players would only be inserted by Group Finder if there is an OPEN SLOT. This way players could decide for themselves if they want to keep an active companion (keep slot filled) OR look for a human player (keep slot open).

Lady_Galadhiel

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

I was thinking the same thing,my hubby and me enjoy doing random dailies and if we both could use our companions and queue up with them we would save much time and trouble.

However I only agree if its already a premade group with 2 players and 2 companions,or 3 players and one companion.If someone queues up alone it should be like always,getting into a group with 3 other players and no companions.

Xuhora

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

initially i was like "well that would lengthen the queue-times, which are allready abismal as DD"

but as i was writing something struck me: IF you could use the groupfinder with 2 companions and 2 players, it could actually shorten the queue-time for DD players. imagine you only can set the companions roles for Tank or Healer while using GF. that would pick 2 DDs from the queue, thus making the queue shorter for the remaining DDs that want to be grouped with other players.

so my poll answer is wrong i guess, should be "yes, but only as Tank/Healer roles"

Lady_Galadhiel

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Xuhora wrote: »

initially i was like "well that would lengthen the queue-times, which are allready abismal as DD"

but as i was writing something struck me: IF you could use the groupfinder with 2 companions and 2 players, it could actually shorten the queue-time for DD players. imagine you only can set the companions roles for Tank or Healer while using GF. that would pick 2 DDs from the queue, thus making the queue shorter for the remaining DDs that want to be grouped with other players.

so my poll answer is wrong i guess, should be "yes, but only as Tank/Healer roles"

That's a very good point,this would indeed make queue times shorter for DD's.

Xebov

Other (please share)

The idea you have will not work this way and would have an unintended side effect.

If you take 2 identical groups, both have 2 players and both have their compagnions out. Both groups queue. One group wants to go into a dungeon in a 2 players + 2 compagnion setup, the other one wants to go in with 4 players and uses their compagnions while they wait for the queue. There can only be one default behaviour, so only one group can get what they want. The current default bahaviour is that compagnions get dismissed and its that way no matter in what configuration players queue. Changing that for a specific combination is a bad idea as it will create confusion. What you instead need to suggest is a checkbox or button that allows you to use the dungeon finder without searching for additional players. This is very close to what you actually want and would prevent players being confused why no other players where searched for a specific group combination.

Rahar

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

lolo_01b16_ESO

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

If you want to play a dungeon with 2 players and 2 npcs you can do exactly that. If you want the reward that you get for helping other players, then you need to help other players.
Btw. In my opinion the random reward should be removed for premade 4 player groups and instead the base reward for pledges or any dungeon completion should be increased.

remosito

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Rahar wrote: »

Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

for me esos bigest appeal after being ES and fully voice acted is that it is so open to solo/duo and encourages play like you want. and less of the forced group *** of other mmos...

BalticBlues

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Xebov wrote: »

If you take 2 identical groups, both have 2 players and both have their compagnions out. Both groups queue. One group wants to go into a dungeon in a 2 players + 2 compagnion setup, the other one wants to go in with 4 players and uses their compagnions while they wait for the queue. There can only be one default behaviour, so only one group can get what they want.

Simple rule, easy to remember: Players who want to play a dungeon with permament companions should be able to so by grouping up with active companions before starting group finder. This way permament companions only would work for pre-made groups, not solo players.

Players who do not want to play a dungeon with companions then still can activate group finder solo (with or without active companion) or -if being in a group- can disband their companions before using group finder (because they have no plan to use companions anyway). The good thing: Even if the group forgets to disband their companions, there is NO HARM DONE if they are placed in a 2+2 group, because they still can disband their companions in the dungeon to find human players.

Another benefit: 2 DDs then can fast-start a random dungeon in 2+2 config with group finder, which is enough to handle most normal dungeons anyway, instead of waiting half an hour for 4 players. If they want a tank or healer later, they still can remove one or both companions to let group finder find a tank or healer for them.

Rahar

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

remosito wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

for me esos bigest appeal after being ES and fully voice acted is that it is so open to solo/duo and encourages play like you want. and less of the forced group *** of other mmos...

You're completely able to solo/duo most normal dungeons in the game with little to no issue, but there should be a point in every MMO as you get to higher level content where you need a group. Why even make an MMO, then?

Xebov

Other (please share)

BalticBlues wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

If you take 2 identical groups, both have 2 players and both have their compagnions out. Both groups queue. One group wants to go into a dungeon in a 2 players + 2 compagnion setup, the other one wants to go in with 4 players and uses their compagnions while they wait for the queue. There can only be one default behaviour, so only one group can get what they want.

Simple rule, easy to remember: Players who want to play a dungeon with permament companions should be able to so by grouping up with active companions before starting group finder. This way permament companions only would work for pre-made groups, not solo players.

Players who do not want to play a dungeon with companions then still can activate group finder solo (with or without active companion) or -if being in a group- can disband their companions before using group finder (because they have no plan to use companions anyway). The good thing: Even if the group forgets to disband their companions, there is NO HARM DONE if they are placed in a 2+2 group, because they still can disband their companions in the dungeon to find human players.

Another benefit: 2 DDs then can fast-start a random dungeon in 2+2 config with group finder, which is enough to handle most normal dungeons anyway, instead of waiting half an hour for 4 players. If they want a tank or healer later, they still can remove one or both companions to let group finder find a tank or healer for them.

Again, it will not work that way. Random players will likely have their compagnions out before starting the queue and that they group is not unlikely and these extra steps will just cause confusion. The suggestion is only relevant for more advanced players and the default has to be as simple as possible to prevent issues for all other players. That idea it should be based on the compagnion status while queueing is a bad design because its a badly visible mechanic that players might trigger the wrong way accidentally. It has to be 100% clear what will happen to everyone, thats why you need a checkbox or a button.

Also if they do it the wrong way tehre is harm done because the dungeon fidner has to deal with extra half filled groups that wouldnt normally be there, plus players are more or less trapped inside the dungeon.

BalticBlues

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Xebov wrote: »

it will not work that way. Random players will likely have their compagnions out before starting the queue

Random players play solo.
It does not matter if they have their companions out or not.
For solo players, companions will always be replaced by a human player.

The SIMPLE idea is, that a PRE-MADE GROUP should be able to decide if they want to play with companions or not. So if you are in a GROUP with a friend, you can decide to start group finder with companions to keep them or without companions to play without. For example a TWO-DD-GROUP this way can rapidly start a random normal dungeon without any tanks or healers to wait for half an hour (and which are not needed for most normal dungeons anyway). In the rare case that the 2-DD-Group gets a difficult DLC dungeon, they still can disband their companions to find a human tank and healer by group finder. Nobody loses anything. This is just a win for duo players, especially for DDs.

AgentUriel

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

I've literally queued up as a fake healer with 2 heals repeatedly on my dps just to get normal random dungeons done for the transmutes. I know I'm not alone... You want to stop fake tanks and healer from ruining content? Stop forcing the role or give dps an out with a companion that can functionally complete the content in that role.

I don't want to wait for 20 minutes just to queue up for necessary content and I shouldn't have to play a role I don't want to.

Give players more options to do what they want!

BalticBlues

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

AgentUriel wrote: »

I've literally queued up as a fake healer with 2 heals repeatedly on my dps just to get normal random dungeons done for the transmutes.

Exactly, that's what reasonable DDs do. Even though I sometimes feel sorry for the tank, because most stuff is already dead when he arrives, he also saves some playing time - which I appreciate as a tank when doing random dailies. - So if you are DD, with this 2+2 solution you only would need another DD to start and get things done rapidly.There still will be enough solo DDs for tank and healers to do their random daily. Or they also can just get a friend for a 2+2 setup.

Even though companions are weak, they can help a lot to speed up group finder.

Marcus_Thracius

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

If you actually test them on pts you will realise that even the worst pug player you can get is better than the braindead AI of the companions
Unless you are totally antisocial or want to play it hardcore dungs , have fun with them

Xebov

Other (please share)

BalticBlues wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

it will not work that way. Random players will likely have their compagnions out before starting the queue

Random players play solo.
It does not matter if they have their companions out or not.
For solo players, companions will always be replaced by a human player.

The SIMPLE idea is, that a PRE-MADE GROUP should be able to decide if they want to play with companions or not. So if you are in a GROUP with a friend, you can decide to start group finder with companions to keep them or without companions to play without. For example a TWO-DD-GROUP this way can rapidly start a random normal dungeon without any tanks or healers to wait for half an hour (and which are not needed for most normal dungeons anyway). In the rare case that the 2-DD-Group gets a difficult DLC dungeon, they still can disband their companions to find a human tank and healer by group finder. Nobody loses anything. This is just a win for duo players, especially for DDs.

Random players sometimes spontaniously form groups. Besides that some groups want to go in with their compagnions and some without. My problem is not that you want to go in with your compagnions. My problem is that your idea how the choice if compagnions should be in or not is made implicit and barely visible which will lead to confusion. The choice has to be explicit. Thats why i said you need a button or a checkbox to explicitely choose that option. I hope its clear this time.

cyberjanet

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

The only use I have for Dungeon Finder is random normals, and I only ever do those with a ready-made group. Even having to pick up one PUG stresses me out beyond belief, and having my companions (assuming i ever get there) replaced with hostile strangers is not going to work for me.

redspecter23

I'd expand on this idea a bit further and suggest that any premade group can choose to do a random dungeon with whatever composition they currently have, whether that's a solo player or 2 players with 2 companions or even just 4 players all grouped up who happen to all be set as dps.

The counter argument is always that randoms are intended to backfill groups with roles to complete their specific content and I'd counter that counter by saying that at some point the needs of group A need to be considered as a priority as well. While it's all fine and good to consider the groups that need fills, also consider the group that just wants to hop in the content and get it done. It would reduce the fake tanks and healers in the queue as they would just queue as dps either solo or in a smaller group. Those that are actually in the queue would want to be there.

BalticBlues

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

If you actually test them on pts you will realise that even the worst pug player you can get is better than the braindead AI of the companions

Agreed, but this does not matter, as most DDs can solo normal dungeons anyway. However, please note that people are NOT "antisocial" when they prefer a 2+2 setup with a good friend or espouse. Just two people sometimes really is enough

Mysticman

Rahar wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

for me esos bigest appeal after being ES and fully voice acted is that it is so open to solo/duo and encourages play like you want. and less of the forced group *** of other mmos...

Why even make an MMO, then?

ESO is more of a on-line RPG than a traditional MMO.

remosito

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Rahar wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

for me esos bigest appeal after being ES and fully voice acted is that it is so open to solo/duo and encourages play like you want. and less of the forced group *** of other mmos...

You're completely able to solo/duo most normal dungeons in the game with little to no issue, but there should be a point in every MMO as you get to higher level content where you need a group. Why even make an MMO, then?

bigger player base to sell your game to. lone wolves and hypersocislites.


and solo/duoing with better companions than we have now would open up new play experiences.

it's not like anybody here wants to scrap traditional 4 man group finder...

colossalvoids

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

If you want to play a dungeon with 2 players and 2 npcs you can do exactly that. If you want the reward that you get for helping other players, then you need to help other players.
Btw. In my opinion the random reward should be removed for premade 4 player groups and instead the base reward for pledges or any dungeon completion should be increased.

Exactly.

Lady_Galadhiel

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

If you actually test them on pts you will realise that even the worst pug player you can get is better than the braindead AI of the companions
Unless you are totally antisocial or want to play it hardcore dungs , have fun with them

Antisocial are the people who join a PUG,don't even bother to say Hi or anything at all,run ahead leaving the other 3 group members behind,aggro all mobs and just run from boss to boss leaving the other 3 to kill the trash mobs.
For this I can rather go with my hubby and 2 AI,yea they may not deal great dmg but at least they talk more.

Rahar

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

Mysticman wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

for me esos bigest appeal after being ES and fully voice acted is that it is so open to solo/duo and encourages play like you want. and less of the forced group *** of other mmos...

Why even make an MMO, then?

ESO is more of a on-line RPG than a traditional MMO.

I see where you're coming from with this, but I disagree. Path of Exile and Guild Wars 1 are more like an online RPG than an MMO, because you can only see other players in city hubs/lobbies and group up with them to go into an otherwise single-player world. ESO, however, has the traditional open world where every player is dumped with the other players, group or not, and has other traditional MMO stuff like group finders, dungeons, raids, etc. It's an MMO through and through.

remosito wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

for me esos bigest appeal after being ES and fully voice acted is that it is so open to solo/duo and encourages play like you want. and less of the forced group *** of other mmos...

You're completely able to solo/duo most normal dungeons in the game with little to no issue, but there should be a point in every MMO as you get to higher level content where you need a group. Why even make an MMO, then?

bigger player base to sell your game to. lone wolves and hypersocislites.


and solo/duoing with better companions than we have now would open up new play experiences.

it's not like anybody here wants to scrap traditional 4 man group finder...

No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Other (please share)

You could use a really selfish and toxic work around. You could use an alt account to make a 3 player group and when your random player joins and you enter the dungeon, you can vote kick them and your alt to make room for your AI companions.

As I said, it's a bit selfish and toxic but at least you can get your rewards. glhf

robpr

It might just switch to 2+2 automatically if you are waiting longer than 5-10mins

remosito

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

You could use a really selfish and toxic work around. You could use an alt account to make a 3 player group and when your random player joins and you enter the dungeon, you can vote kick them and your alt to make room for your AI companions.

As I said, it's a bit selfish and toxic but at least you can get your rewards. glhf

do it without being an ***. buy two 4 buck base game keys. create two alt accounts. make group of 2 main plus two alt accounts. queue. drop alt accounts from group. summon companions..

Tannus15

No, group finder should replace active companions by human players

or you can just do a random normal wtih 2 random people who at worst will probably still be better than your companions.

just saying.

stefj68

Other (please share)

you can't even pop them out when someone goes offline/disconnected
you have to kick that person out to get a pet in...

queue finder already have issue matching 4 people together without messing up

i could understand it could be nice for a premade 2 person 2 pets or 3 person 1 pet groups to queue as a random but knowing zos they will change the crystal rewards from 10 downto 1 if they do that...

last nite queued for vet blackheart pledge, and end up with a level 49 in groups that were unable to port in

DarcyMardin

Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent

Tannus15 wrote: »

or you can just do a random normal wtih 2 random people who at worst will probably still be better than your companions.

just saying.

Not in my experience, where at least half the time the groups race thru the dungeons and ignore my attempts to do the quest and get the skill point (much less open any chests). Most folks aren’t unselfishly getting the rewards for “helping” other players. They are getting quick crystals for themselves.

If companions are improved enough that I can duo the harder DLC pledges with my husband, I’d rather use them than be “helped” by the crystal-hoarding speed runners.

MudcrabAttack

Imagine going through vet random que all alone, only to be paired up with Bastion, the drops-block-too-soon stands-in-red tank