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Permanent companions (for 2+2) in Group Finder?

  • jwellsub17_ESO2
    jwellsub17_ESO2
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    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.
  • Rahar
    Rahar
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • Anonx31st
    Anonx31st
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    I'd like to team up with a friend to do normal Daily Dungeons with companions to level them up and see how they work in different dungeons: 2 human players + 2 AI players. I know this is possible if we travel directly to a dungeon. However, if we would be using Group Finder to give us a daily RANDOM dungeon to earn the 10 daily Transmute Crystals, our companions would be AUTO REPLACED by human players who are LFG, if I understand correctly.

    Would it please be possible to avoid this auto replacement to keep active companions permanent?

    Suggestion: If an EXISTING GROUP (with a Group Leader) is using Group Finder, there should be NO AUTO replacement of active companions. Human players would only be inserted by Group Finder if there is an OPEN SLOT. This way players could decide for themselves if they want to keep an active companion (keep slot filled) OR look for a human player (keep slot open).

    Definitely no and this wasn't the developers of ZOS's intentions. This is an MMO, not your Skyrim. The fact that you want to replace strangers in an MMO with AI is detrimental to this game. The dungeon finder is used to find PLAYERS to fill a group, that is it's incentive, to create a social atmosphere in an MMO, not to be abused by people that don't want to play with strangers.
  • Tigertron
    Tigertron
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    I like the idea but here is the exploit;

    Two DD + 1 healer and 1 tank companion
    Quest for random and get Scale Caller
    Disband companions and get the next REAL healer and tank in the que.

    Essentially skipping to the front of the line in a dungeon that two DD would have hard time duoing.

    Maybe they should just scrap the “form a group” part and go straight to “select random dungeon with my group” button. That way if you are single, duo, triple, one, two or none companions it won’t matter. Your group is it. If you can’t do the dungeon then leave and reque.
  • remosito
    remosito
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...

    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
  • sjean73
    sjean73
    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    that defeat the purpose of a random with random people...
  • jwellsub17_ESO2
    jwellsub17_ESO2
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    Rahar wrote: »
    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.

    [Edited to remove Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 2, 2021 1:24PM
  • DonGodJoe
    DonGodJoe
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Definitely yes, insert a check box next to queue random (queue up with companions)
    This is something that would be an awesome for duo partners playing only
    Just use procs. Simple. No brain is required.
  • DonGodJoe
    DonGodJoe
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    or you can just do a random normal wtih 2 random people who at worst will probably still be better than your companions.

    just saying.

    No, that aint the same scenario and this is saying someone who played SWTOR with companions, so your statement is completely wrong

    Companion > bad random player
    Always
    Just use procs. Simple. No brain is required.
  • SirLeeMinion
    SirLeeMinion
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    I'd hoped we could use the otherwise -useless companions to pull a rnd with fewer than four and not have to worry about a human player replacing the companion. The existing mechanic that asks the leader if they want to replace a group member that has left would work fine for determining who wants their companions replaced. If that's not the case... well, I guess it's just one more reason to pass on them.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    If you want to play a dungeon with 2 players and 2 npcs you can do exactly that. If you want the reward that you get for helping other players, then you need to help other players.
    Btw. In my opinion the random reward should be removed for premade 4 player groups and instead the base reward for pledges or any dungeon completion should be increased.
    You have an valid point, however after they changed the group finder so 4 man groups bypass the grouping tool it tend to work way better than before as in it works more than half the time.
    If you had to use 3 man groups and get an last random the finder would overload again at all time and dd wait time would increase.

    Yes you have the fun bug there finder put your 4 man group in an phantom queue and you can not leave queue or leave group who came back last week.
    Why? Because unknown reasons, the dungeon finder is one of the few parts of ESO I could have coded myself.
    Its one of the easier problems as I see it.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • colossalvoids
    colossalvoids
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    DonGodJoe wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    or you can just do a random normal wtih 2 random people who at worst will probably still be better than your companions.

    just saying.

    No, that aint the same scenario and this is saying someone who played SWTOR with companions, so your statement is completely wrong

    Companion > bad random player
    Always

    It's not swtor btw, you can check how great are companions on PTS. Spoiler, they're your average quest npc and not a follower from your other games.
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    DonGodJoe wrote: »
    you can check how great are companions on PTS.
    Doing a random normal dungeon, it does not matter how good or bad companions are. Even though it may take twice the time and effort to carry the clumsy companions through a dungeon, it is way more fun to do 2+2 with a good friend instead of the usual speed burn runs with 4 randoms. Moreover, it allows two DDs to do their daily random dungeon within 15 mins instead of waiting 20 mins to find a random group for the usual 10 min speed burn runs, saving 50% of their playing time.
    Anonx31st wrote: »
    This is an MMO, not your Skyrim. The fact that you want to replace strangers in an MMO with AI is detrimental to this game.
    Do you actually play the game lately? What is detrimental to this game is that 95% of random normal dailies now are speed burn runs of players being able to solo dungeons, leaving new players unable to do their dungeon quest. The humble request to be able to play random normal dailies as a 2+2 with a friend or guild mate is in the best MMO interest of this game.

    Edited by BalticBlues on May 1, 2021 5:56AM
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    Tigertron wrote: »

    Maybe they should just scrap the “form a group” part and go straight to “select random dungeon with my group” button. That way if you are single, duo, triple, one, two or none companions it won’t matter. Your group is it. If you can’t do the dungeon then leave and reque.

    This is actually a very good idea, as it adresses multiple group finder complaints.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • TempestM
    TempestM
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    The whole reason Group finder exists is to put random 4 people into some dungeon
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Replacing PCs with NPCs is the antithesis of an MMO's value.

    for me esos bigest appeal after being ES and fully voice acted is that it is so open to solo/duo and encourages play like you want. and less of the forced group *** of other mmos...



    You're completely able to solo/duo most normal dungeons in the game with little to no issue, but there should be a point in every MMO as you get to higher level content where you need a group. Why even make an MMO, then?

    That already exists. It's called vet mode. Have you noticed how weak Companions are? They suck, OP is talking about Random Dungeon Normal.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • Ishtarknows
    Ishtarknows
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    You could use a really selfish and toxic work around. You could use an alt account to make a 3 player group and when your random player joins and you enter the dungeon, you can vote kick them and your alt to make room for your AI companions.

    As I said, it's a bit selfish and toxic but at least you can get your rewards. glhf

    You could do that already, companions won't change that, and given how close to useless they seem 3- manning a dungeon now (there's no necessity to fill the final place) vs 3-manning with a companion later, there's not much difference imo.
  • Ishtarknows
    Ishtarknows
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.

    Just about everybody I know only uses group finder for random normals for crystals.

    I'm interested to know of an easily repeatable way to get 10 crystals or more in under ten minutes another way.
    I'll wait, thank you

  • FluffyBird
    FluffyBird
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    Other (please share)
    A checkbox "keep current group composition" that would prevent people from being automatically added to your group would be great. Solo, duo, trio, with companions, without.

    And no, purpose of rnd isn't "random people in random dungeon", it's "random dungeon" period.
  • rpa
    rpa
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    Other (please share)
    Being able to enter a random dungeon as a premade "full group" of 1, 2 or 3 players (and still get the reward) would be nice for people who prefer premade groups. (Assuming DF would not put solo people to dungeon which has intentionally rigged to be unsoloable.) But I do not think it would help queue times for people who queue to find a group.
  • Rahar
    Rahar
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.
    Edited by Rahar on May 3, 2021 2:57PM
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • Nogawd
    Nogawd
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    I would love to run normals with my friend and 2 companions. Most times, yes, we burn ahead and leave the other players behind anyway, as others have stated.

    Some state companions suck, well as long as they can cc for me, that's all I would need to help make the burn a little easier. Better than most pugs.
  • remosito
    remosito
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    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.

    why on earth would it have to accept 1+1 just because it accepts 2+2. 😳

    what kinda logic module gave you that idea?
    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
  • Rahar
    Rahar
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    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.

    why on earth would it have to accept 1+1 just because it accepts 2+2. 😳

    what kinda logic module gave you that idea?

    Because 2 groups of 1+1 player/companions makes a 2+2, and in order for that to work right it's gotta do 1+1 too.

    Unless we're through with counting and like javascript 1+1 = 11
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • remosito
    remosito
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.

    why on earth would it have to accept 1+1 just because it accepts 2+2. 😳

    what kinda logic module gave you that idea?

    Because 2 groups of 1+1 player/companions makes a 2+2, and in order for that to work right it's gotta do 1+1 too.

    Unless we're through with counting and like javascript 1+1 = 11

    not at all!

    easy to code that 2+2 (and 3+1 for that matter ) is considered full group and directly sent to dungeon.

    and if 1+1 it does not count companion at all and put you with 3 players and unsummon companion upon sending you in.
    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
  • Rahar
    Rahar
    ✭✭✭✭
    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.

    why on earth would it have to accept 1+1 just because it accepts 2+2. 😳

    what kinda logic module gave you that idea?

    Because 2 groups of 1+1 player/companions makes a 2+2, and in order for that to work right it's gotta do 1+1 too.

    Unless we're through with counting and like javascript 1+1 = 11

    not at all!

    easy to code that 2+2 (and 3+1 for that matter ) is considered full group and directly sent to dungeon.

    and if 1+1 it does not count companion at all and put you with 3 players and unsummon companion upon sending you in.

    That would be pretty counterintuitive, though. I'm not saying that that ESO doesn't do plenty of other contradictory and outright confusing things, of course, but we really shouldn't add to how unintuitive playing the game is already just to cater to a ultra specific use case for the RDF.
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • remosito
    remosito
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.

    why on earth would it have to accept 1+1 just because it accepts 2+2. 😳

    what kinda logic module gave you that idea?

    Because 2 groups of 1+1 player/companions makes a 2+2, and in order for that to work right it's gotta do 1+1 too.

    Unless we're through with counting and like javascript 1+1 = 11

    not at all!

    easy to code that 2+2 (and 3+1 for that matter ) is considered full group and directly sent to dungeon.

    and if 1+1 it does not count companion at all and put you with 3 players and unsummon companion upon sending you in.

    That would be pretty counterintuitive, though. I'm not saying that that ESO doesn't do plenty of other contradictory and outright confusing things, of course, but we really shouldn't add to how unintuitive playing the game is already just to cater to a ultra specific use case for the RDF.

    Just pop up a window when queuing in 1+1 (or 2+1) that your companions do not count for queue and you will be grouped with 3 (2) players and companions will get despawned.

    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
  • Rahar
    Rahar
    ✭✭✭✭
    No, group finder should replace active companions by human players
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.

    why on earth would it have to accept 1+1 just because it accepts 2+2. 😳

    what kinda logic module gave you that idea?

    Because 2 groups of 1+1 player/companions makes a 2+2, and in order for that to work right it's gotta do 1+1 too.

    Unless we're through with counting and like javascript 1+1 = 11

    not at all!

    easy to code that 2+2 (and 3+1 for that matter ) is considered full group and directly sent to dungeon.

    and if 1+1 it does not count companion at all and put you with 3 players and unsummon companion upon sending you in.

    That would be pretty counterintuitive, though. I'm not saying that that ESO doesn't do plenty of other contradictory and outright confusing things, of course, but we really shouldn't add to how unintuitive playing the game is already just to cater to a ultra specific use case for the RDF.

    Just pop up a window when queuing in 1+1 (or 2+1) that your companions do not count for queue and you will be grouped with 3 (2) players and companions will get despawned.

    That should probably be the default even with the system as it is right now. The confusing part is why 2+2 should be treated any differently.
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • remosito
    remosito
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    remosito wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    Rahar wrote: »
    No one's stopping you from solo or duoing the dungeon without the RDF. You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals. You see why that would be a problem, right? Aside from the fact that the random dungeon reward is meant to be an incentive to group up with other (possibly newer) players and help them, wouldn't it be really not fun for people who actually like to group up since they could get stuck with someone in a """duo""" with their companion?

    It demolishes any integrity the RDF has left, if any. There are plenty of other places to get crystals.
    I think you give lie to the fallacy of your own statement. If there are plenty of other places to get crystals then crystals are not the only reason to do RDF.

    No, the RDFs purpose is just what it's name implies and as such it should not care how your group is made up, it is just there to pick a random dungeon for you to do. The crystals are a reward for doing a "random" dungeon.

    If you have 4, 2+2, or 3+1 the RDF should accept the group as is. If you queue up without a group, it should mark you as a solo and add you to a random group like it currently does. If you have a companion out, it should mark you as a group and fill the remaining two slots.

    Except that's not what I said. OP wants to go in a dungeon using the RDF with a friend and 2 companions so (s)he can get the transmute crystal bonus and level companions at the same time. That's not the same thing as asserting the RDF is the only way to get crystals. They're also mutually exclusive, because OP can go in a dungeon with their friend and accomplish half of what they want with no changes already, they just want to double-dip for the transmute crystals, too.

    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed? As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system? I use the RDF to play with actual players who (hopefully) do more damage than a light attacking NPC.

    the original post was about 2 ppl with their companions being able to get into random.

    You wouldnt get grouped with them. they are already 4...
    If the RDF allows 2+2 in the group you're thinking of, it has to allow 1+1 in the groups you're not. So everyone would have to deal with potentially getting someone else's companion they didn't sign up for.
    Except that is what you said. I quote
    Rahar wrote: »
    "You're just asking to use the group finder without other players so you can get the transmute crystals.
    To which I replied that your statement is false. Most people I know who do use the RDF do it for the random dungeons and tougher content. If people were only doing it for the crystals, they would do other content which they can do faster and easier than the RDF.
    Okay, I think I see the miscommunication here. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I said this, I meant to summarize the OP's desire to double-dip, since wanting to change that is the meat of their post. I think the context around this sentence supports that, but text is also a poor vehicle for expression. To summarize what I was trying to say: the RDF has more uses than just for crystals, but not in the OP's scenario where they would be doing a random dungeon for the reward but still keeping/leveling their companions.
    So could you explain to me why that should be allowed?
    Because it has zero affect / effect on your gameplay. Because it is what ZOS obviously intended with the companion system.
    As a player who uses the RDF primarily to get gear from dungeons to do PvP and occasionally with a friend to do the daily crystal bonus, why should I have to deal with NPC AI and low DPS from a player-companion pair just so they can game the system?
    [snip]

    The OP is not asking to interfere with your game play, instead they are asking for a way to protect people like you by locking their group.
    It will inevitably have an effect on my gameplay because if the RDF accepts a 2+2 player/companion pair, then it has to accept a 1+1 pair, too. That 1+1 could find its way into my party and inconvenience me, and that isn't right when the RDF should be a tool to find 3 other players.

    why on earth would it have to accept 1+1 just because it accepts 2+2. 😳

    what kinda logic module gave you that idea?

    Because 2 groups of 1+1 player/companions makes a 2+2, and in order for that to work right it's gotta do 1+1 too.

    Unless we're through with counting and like javascript 1+1 = 11

    not at all!

    easy to code that 2+2 (and 3+1 for that matter ) is considered full group and directly sent to dungeon.

    and if 1+1 it does not count companion at all and put you with 3 players and unsummon companion upon sending you in.

    That would be pretty counterintuitive, though. I'm not saying that that ESO doesn't do plenty of other contradictory and outright confusing things, of course, but we really shouldn't add to how unintuitive playing the game is already just to cater to a ultra specific use case for the RDF.

    Just pop up a window when queuing in 1+1 (or 2+1) that your companions do not count for queue and you will be grouped with 3 (2) players and companions will get despawned.

    That should probably be the default even with the system as it is right now. The confusing part is why 2+2 should be treated any differently.

    so ppl who want to duo random can...
    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, group finder should keep active companions permanent
    I run duo with my Significant other all the time and It'd be great if I didn't have to get walloped by the boss and let our companions be bait.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
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