Massive Warden Nerf Way Overdone

RedFireDisco

20% reduction to Arctic Wind heal is way too much. It's not a big heal even on a high health build.

I can't remember the last time I saw a 20% nerf to a single class ability. Even at 10% that's pretty harsh.

Add this to a 50% reduction in upcoming health regen and that's going to kill a whole swag of Warden builds outright.

Not good enough. Buff other classes instead of destroying people's builds.

Waffennacht

Its actually a pretty fair nerf

Ryuvain

It was broken in PvP. Why does that skill have to do everything anyway? Damage, stun, burst heal, AND nb's dark cloak. How was it not overperforming?

Wing

everything is balanced as per their math.

you see it as a 20% nerf.

in fact the skill was overperforming by 20%

Togal

its a fair nerf

FluffWit

I was doing pvp a few months back with a small group and they laughed when a Warden went down and people said something like "How is a Warden that bad at healing" kept my mouth shut but realized I was doing something wrong and figured out I needed Artic Wind in my life.

It was OP. By about 20%.

ArchMikem

RedFireDisco wrote: »

20% reduction to Arctic Wind heal is way too much. It's not a big heal even on a high health build.

I can't remember the last time I saw a 20% nerf to a single class ability. Even at 10% that's pretty harsh.

Add this to a 50% reduction in upcoming health regen and that's going to kill a whole swag of Warden builds outright.

Not good enough. Buff other classes instead of destroying people's builds.

DPS Wardens would definitely think this way, including myself initially, but apparently there have been ways for Tanky Wardens to completely abuse the system to engorge that skill's heal.

Ryuvain

ArchMikem wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

20% reduction to Arctic Wind heal is way too much. It's not a big heal even on a high health build.

I can't remember the last time I saw a 20% nerf to a single class ability. Even at 10% that's pretty harsh.

Add this to a 50% reduction in upcoming health regen and that's going to kill a whole swag of Warden builds outright.

Not good enough. Buff other classes instead of destroying people's builds.

DPS Wardens would definitely think this way, including myself initially, but apparently there have been ways for Tanky Wardens to completely abuse the system to engorge that skill's heal.

It scales with health. Not only is it nigbtblades dark cloak, but it also includes damage, a burst heal, and constant stuns for just being in melee.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

It's definitely fair.

Personally, I'd give up the stun just to see the healing reduced by 10% instead of 20%.

Nyladreas

RedFireDisco wrote: »

20% reduction to Arctic Wind heal is way too much. It's not a big heal even on a high health build.

I can't remember the last time I saw a 20% nerf to a single class ability. Even at 10% that's pretty harsh.

Add this to a 50% reduction in upcoming health regen and that's going to kill a whole swag of Warden builds outright.

Not good enough. Buff other classes instead of destroying people's builds.

Nope. Not at all. This is a fair nerf. Wardens had been way overturned for way too long.

Next in line should be a sorc. But since that's ZOS' baby we're only getting "secret" buffs for them. Looking at you Gaze and New Malacath.

Hurbster

Oh flipping heck, my solo build gets nerfed again.

Athan1

Chill bro (get it?)

snoozy

Hurbster wrote: »

Oh flipping heck, my solo build gets nerfed again.

same 1vXing is becoming harder and harder.

personally i think the nerf is too harsh, they should have just removed the damage and stun imo. and maybe 10% less healing

FrancisCrawford

RedFireDisco wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I saw a 20% nerf to a single class ability.

Seriously?

Daedric Prey peaked at a 55% buff to pet damage, IIRC. It's now 20%.

Ritual of Retribution had a 100% nerf to damage dealt. The other morph had a 100% nerf to healing.

Funnel Health had a 50% nerf to damage.

The Backlash morphs lost a large majority of their damage dealt.

Etc.

olsborg

Fair nerf !

RedFireDisco

Waffennacht wrote: »

Its actually a pretty fair nerf

I disagree but thank you for your opinion.

ArchMikem wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

20% reduction to Arctic Wind heal is way too much. It's not a big heal even on a high health build.

I can't remember the last time I saw a 20% nerf to a single class ability. Even at 10% that's pretty harsh.

Add this to a 50% reduction in upcoming health regen and that's going to kill a whole swag of Warden builds outright.

Not good enough. Buff other classes instead of destroying people's builds.

DPS Wardens would definitely think this way, including myself initially, but apparently there have been ways for Tanky Wardens to completely abuse the system to engorge that skill's heal.

Yeah, I definitely agree. It means for those with medium-level health (30k-ish) and a bit of health recovery (nerfed), the whole build gets completely destroyed, and I mean destroyed with no hyperbole.

This is why I'm a fan of buffs over nerfs. They could have tweaked this to negate those tanky wardens popping 12k heals on 50k health but they'll end up being fine and everyone else will suffer.

Grebcol

Jup the nerf is welcome. Was to strong and abused alot.

Zodiarkslayer

Tanking without a powerful health scaling self heal is a hardcore slog, because Healers are generally bad in PvE, if not outright fake.

It might balance PvP, but definitely NERFS PvE tanking!
Why not make a damage and a healing Morph?
It could be easily done and the balance is much better.

RedFireDisco

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Tanking without a powerful health scaling self heal is a hardcore slog, because Healers are generally bad in PvE, if not outright fake.

It might balance PvP, but definitely NERFS PvE tanking!
Why not make a damage and a healing Morph?
It could be easily done and the balance is much better.

That's a good idea

TelvanniWizard

A nerf in PvE, undeserved and creating a problem for tanks.

remosito

no idea about pvp.. but pve it was ridiculously strong for solping tough stuff...

Stahlor

so - now we talk about dark deal and streak!

Kel

The fact that a single 29k health warden can hold off a entire 4 man team in battlegrounds (no cp) mainly because of one skill should prove that it's broken.
That's not some unique scenario, or done by a particular skilled player, that's nearly every warden I've come across.
You see two wardens on a team, you're in for a bad time. I can only imagine the abuse this skill let's you pull off WITH CP.

I get moaning about being pulled back to earth with the rest of us, but this is actually one of the fairest things I've seen ZoS do.

And that's saying a lot...

phaneub17_ESO

I mean, they could do it like the Twisting Path and Ritual of Retribution treatment when they did damage and healing at the same time, then changed them to one Morph is healing only and another Morph only does damage. Count it lucky that it still does both healing and damage for both Morphs, that may change later on too.

Niblix

Now all we need is them to despawn the bear pet on entering cities.

Tommy_The_Gun

Thank god they nerfed Dark Cloak too. It was so broken. Every NB was running it and it was causing huge issues. I mean both mag & stam NB were unkillable with it. Thank god they listened to player feedback...

^ Obvious sarcasm ^

Raegwyr

RedFireDisco wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I saw a 20% nerf to a single class ability. Even at 10% that's pretty harsh.

That line alone shows that you are pretty new here tbh. There were abilities nerfed by 70% even (dot meta and zeni hammer approach to nerf things).
Like everyone in the thread said, wardens were overtuned and in my opinion this single ability still do too much. They should remove damage/stun part too so it would be in line with other abilities. You want to see stupid nerf? Go play magblade with dark cloak and give us an info how "stupidly broken" dark cloak is

TwinLamps

Cant say its not deserved nerf.
Cant say ins not among best deffensive skills in ESO even after the nerf.

nukk3r

Ryuvain wrote: »

It was broken in PvP. Why does that skill have to do everything anyway? Damage, stun, burst heal, AND nb's dark cloak. How was it not overperforming?

The damage isn't that good, the stun is unreliable (someone has to just stand still to get hit 3 times). How is it OP?
The only redeeming feature of this change is that they'll re-enable proc set in cyro, so solo magdens will at least have some damage, now that they lost a good chunk of healing power.

And yes, I play a magden.

Jeffrey530

Roll a warden and go play battleground, you'll see why this nerf is needed.

Jeffrey530

nukk3r wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It was broken in PvP. Why does that skill have to do everything anyway? Damage, stun, burst heal, AND nb's dark cloak. How was it not overperforming?

The damage isn't that good, the stun is unreliable (someone has to just stand still to get hit 3 times). How is it OP?
The only redeeming feature of this change is that they'll re-enable proc set in cyro, so solo magdens will at least have some damage, now that they lost a good chunk of healing power.

And yes, I play a magden.

Why should such a potent heal also provide means of damage and stun in the first place. Magdens I'm not so sure but do you agree stamdens have been abusing this skill? Slap on harbinger, hold block and just heal, easy damage and stun while 1v 3 or 4 in bg.