Companions are hilarious!

crjs1

Sooooo deflating, especially as companions are the ‘selling’ point of the chapter and ZOS have bigged up thier use to help solo and duo players in dungeons.

Hopefully ZOS are just being cautious and will buff then though the PTS cycle. My main concern is the poor ai, such as not avoiding AoE red zones. I can’t see thier ai being rewritten in a meaningful way in time for launch...

Sandman929

What I'm gathering here is that Companions are a "Wilson"...just an absolute last resort for having some kind of company. Wilson can't do anything, he's just a volleyball, but he's there and we can imagine we have a friend.

Ryuvain

@SirAndy
Just tested sorc pets + clanfear. They don't take any damage nor get any aggro. Tried on live server in Stone Garden and Elden Hollow solo by walking in.

Wish it did work though.

Abelon

I am not one of the people who expected the companions to replace real players. I didn't expect much from them in general, it was obvious that they are meant to be rather limited...

But... First boss... of FG1...If the companions aren't meant to tank the easiest bosses in the game, what are they meant to tank? What is the point of them being able to tank?

Somewhat disappointing. Obviously I will reserve judgement until they potentially get buffed (fixed).

hrothbern

SirAndy wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

In order to be useful, a fully leveled tank companion needs to be the equivalent of the Sorc Clannfear pet in terms of taunts and survivability.

Ha ha! Do you know how often I have to resummon my Clannfear in a fight?

Dunno, but on my MagSorc, the Clannfear can hold its own during most boss fights while soloing vet group dungeons.
It doesn't die that often at all.

I thought pets were mostly invincible in group content?

@kojou

Not when you are running solo ...

Pretty sure pets can't take damage or even get aggro in true dungeons, not open world.

But seriously? Just let pets take damage again and taunt at this point, clanfear was at least a meat shield.

I said *mostly* because I know there are a few cases where they will die to mechanics, although I think they are not supposed to in a group.

I was not aware that they could die if you enter a group dungeon solo, but @SirAndy would likely know, so I will take his word for it.

Just saying that at least before current live update they can't die at all in a multiplayer group dungeon. Don't know if something changed since I'm not at home to check. Soloed Stone Garden and they never died or grabbed aggro, not even clanfear.

I hope they do grab aggro again, would be nice.

@Ryuvain @kojou
If you run a group dungeon *solo*, your Clannfear *will* taunt and aggro as well as die if not healed.

The aggro is only disabled if you are in a group (!), same is true for the "unkillable" of your pets.


PS: That's what i do for fun with my MagSorc, run group dungeons solo. And i use the Clannfear as a tank.

Did someone already tested in PTS whether a Clannfear keeps his aggro when going "solo" witha companion ?

remosito

hands0medevil wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

he can't tank 1st boss in fg1 lollllllllllllllllllll

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

And ppl said they would replace players - haha

Tbh. I can not think of a nFG1 (with auto group finder) when someone died at that boss, let alone entire group got wiped. Even at very low level.

If max level companion is getting killed at the one of the easiest boss in the game (many overland are harder) then... what is the use case for companions ? If I make one to be a healer, then the only thing they will replace is Pale Order ring.

My only idea is that maybe they can be somehow tuned into some kind of sustain-healer, so maybe mobs won't attack them. Also maybe it can be combined with some health recovery, so you could solo some dungeons that have long unbreakable stun with dot (like FG2 boss).

And to even think that I was hoping that I will be able to do n Dragonstar n / BRP, with an NPC companion, as those do not have group finder support... oh well...

They have to just not die. Don't need to be great healers, tanks or DPS. Just live. Otherwise they become a liability as opposed to simply being meh.

But, but, but... undying tank? undying healer? dds? sounds like great. They need to be BALANCED, and we know what it means. It will never happen.

pretty sure poster meant not dying by actually walking out of stupid (heck... ranged mobs do that regularly to my aoes) and do stuff like block big hits..or dodgeroll, interrupt..

not by being unkillable like guards...

Mojmir

Sandman929 wrote: »

What I'm gathering here is that Companions are a "Wilson"...just an absolute last resort for having some kind of company. Wilson can't do anything, he's just a volleyball, but he's there and we can imagine we have a friend.

I see it as a trolling for all the fake tank/healer posts.

remosito

crjs1 wrote: »

Sooooo deflating, especially as companions are the ‘selling’ point of the chapter and ZOS have bigged up thier use to help solo and duo players in dungeons.

Hopefully ZOS are just being cautious and will buff then though the PTS cycle. My main concern is the poor ai, such as not avoiding AoE red zones. I can’t see thier ai being rewritten in a meaningful way in time for launch...

just plug in the ranged mob code that makes those walk out of my aoes on a regular basis...

anyway... really is very discouraging to even wanna try them on pts... reads like not even half baked..more like not even been in the ofen at all yet... certainly not a chapter seller...

Ragged_Claw

All I really wanted was for them to able to stand on a pressure plate and maybe hold some aggro. Just did the Black Drake Villa dungeon for the first time with two of us and realised we couldn't get to at least one of the secret bosses because you need four people standing on plates. It was sooo annoying. 'Cheer up!' I said to my partner, 'When we have companions THEY can stand on the pressure plates!' pfft.

danno8

remosito wrote: »

hands0medevil wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

he can't tank 1st boss in fg1 lollllllllllllllllllll

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

And ppl said they would replace players - haha

Tbh. I can not think of a nFG1 (with auto group finder) when someone died at that boss, let alone entire group got wiped. Even at very low level.

If max level companion is getting killed at the one of the easiest boss in the game (many overland are harder) then... what is the use case for companions ? If I make one to be a healer, then the only thing they will replace is Pale Order ring.

My only idea is that maybe they can be somehow tuned into some kind of sustain-healer, so maybe mobs won't attack them. Also maybe it can be combined with some health recovery, so you could solo some dungeons that have long unbreakable stun with dot (like FG2 boss).

And to even think that I was hoping that I will be able to do n Dragonstar n / BRP, with an NPC companion, as those do not have group finder support... oh well...

They have to just not die. Don't need to be great healers, tanks or DPS. Just live. Otherwise they become a liability as opposed to simply being meh.

But, but, but... undying tank? undying healer? dds? sounds like great. They need to be BALANCED, and we know what it means. It will never happen.

pretty sure poster meant not dying by actually walking out of stupid (heck... ranged mobs do that regularly to my aoes) and do stuff like block big hits..or dodgeroll, interrupt..

not by being unkillable like guards...

Yes, that is what I meant. Surviving basic encounters in overland should be a given. Mostly surviving normal dungeons, maybe a death here and there.

They need to be robust. If you need to rez them while questing in overland content, they are a failed implementation.

For reference, SWTOR.

Mojmir

I like how they draw aggro as your riding and get held up by random nonsense along the way. /sarcasm

aipex8_ESO

Have Mirri set up as a DW DSP (low level, just started playing on PTS), took her through Labyrinthian and she did fine against trash, but died immediately at every boss. It feels very similar to what, say, Lyris or other temp quest companions feel like, only you get to configure and customize. Which, honestly, is what I was expecting.

aipex8_ESO

Also funny: When at crafting stations in a city, your companion walks off and does their own thing (unlike flappies and bears). When a few people are crafting at the same station, you can find a bunch of Mirri's standing in some random corner together, like they are plotting or something.

ZOS, since our companion CAN'T show their helmet (to us), maybe other player's companions SHOULD show theirs (like when you see other people questing with Lyris, but to you they look like a random nord with a helmet). So everyone can see their own companions face, but you don't see a world filled with Mirris. Obviously, if you choose not to equip a helmet style others would still see the face, but it would cut down on clone syndrome.

LadySinflower

Maybe we should just consider companions to be like followers in Skyrim. Lydia faithfully followed me everywhere repeating the same dialog over and over, but it was nice to have her there nevertheless. In fights I never thought of followers as valuable helpers. More often they got in my way and aggroed things I was trying to sneak past. Yet I would not consider playing Skyrim without a follower because I enjoy them. They can be quite funny with the things they say or do. I've heard that they have no real AI in our ESO player homes though, and that's a disappointment. Being able to sit down and eat a meal with them, for example, would have been nice.

VaranisArano

I have to wonder if some ZOS dev was super excited about Companions.

"Look, guys, this'll be a better Lydia, able to tank a giant while the player snipes it from the outskirts of the camp! It'll be the real healer new players are looking for as they try to solo Fungal Grotto 1 for the first time! And if a quest boss like Doshia is still too hard? Bust out your Companion and kill her dead!"

"Yes, but have you seem the forums? They're complaining that Companions will make the game too easy. You have to nerf them."

"But..."

"We're not making vet overland zones. Nerf the Companions."

"But..."

"Did I stutter?"

"Can't they at least stand on the pressure plate in Direfrost Keep?! Lydia could do that!"

"No."

remosito

LadySinflower wrote: »

Maybe we should just consider companions to be like followers in Skyrim. Lydia faithfully followed me everywhere repeating the same dialog over and over, but it was nice to have her there nevertheless. In fights I never thought of followers as valuable helpers. More often they got in my way and aggroed things I was trying to sneak past. Yet I would not consider playing Skyrim without a follower because I enjoy them. They can be quite funny with the things they say or do. I've heard that they have no real AI in our ESO player homes though, and that's a disappointment. Being able to sit down and eat a meal with them, for example, would have been nice.

sure we can look at them that way. and maybe that was even zos goal. but is that sth one wants as the big selling point of the new chapter. feedback read so far seems to be rather clear...

certainly aint to me...

and maybe I just played skyrim way to modded. but I remember followers way less useless than what I am reading so far.... and eso being mmo just lessens the need and impact of a companion... I get all the companionship I need whenever I want to..

Abelon

LadySinflower wrote: »

Maybe we should just consider companions to be like followers in Skyrim. Lydia faithfully followed me everywhere repeating the same dialog over and over, but it was nice to have her there nevertheless. In fights I never thought of followers as valuable helpers. More often they got in my way and aggroed things I was trying to sneak past. Yet I would not consider playing Skyrim without a follower because I enjoy them. They can be quite funny with the things they say or do. I've heard that they have no real AI in our ESO player homes though, and that's a disappointment. Being able to sit down and eat a meal with them, for example, would have been nice.

But skyrim followers are op in comparison to what we are seeing here. If you geared Lydia even somewhat decently, she could solo dragons. And Lydia is one of the weaker followers imo. Teldryn Sero is just god tier. Serana is great as well. Sure the followers could be annoying if they got in the way of your attacks or if you sneaked most of the time. But you could make them work.

I understand that the developers probably were going for RP focused, cool dialogue, lore followers. It's hard to not wish for SWTOR type followers though. That would make me spend 5 times the chapter price.

Lugaldu

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

Also funny: When at crafting stations in a city, your companion walks off and does their own thing (unlike flappies and bears). When a few people are crafting at the same station, you can find a bunch of Mirri's standing in some random corner together, like they are plotting or something.

Oh no, that sounds exactly as feared!

Well, at least they're not right at the crafting tables...

Chaos2088

Fully specs out Mirri for damage, went to a world boss, which I can solo easy she lasted 3 seconds before she got smushed by an add that spawned...I didn't bother trying ot rez her. lol

SirAndy

Ryuvain wrote: »

@SirAndy Just tested sorc pets + clanfear. They don't take any damage nor get any aggro. Tried on live server in Stone Garden and Elden Hollow solo by walking in.
Wish it did work though.

You must be doing something wrong. Did you actually fight any bosses?

I have the "Unstable Clannfear" morph and i can either command it to tank an enemy or even easier just heavy attack a target and it will attack, taunt and tank that target.
It will also take damage from bosses and large mobs of ads.

Great example to really see this is the last boss in FG1.
The boss will stay focused on my Clannfear pretty much the whole fight and rarely go after me.

Jaimeh

MythrialDrow wrote: »

Glad I’ll wait until it’s on sale or buffed. There’s nothing in this chapter that warrants £35 . Meh

I haven't preordered yet, and from the looks of it I will wait for a reduced price or giveaway as well. I'm not interested in the RP side of companions, and won't be using them for content anyway, and besides the new mythic item that gives crit, I'm not interested in anything else in the chapter so far to eagerly wait for it.

spartaxoxo

*Stares at Nightmare Bear Cub*

Yeah haha funny. Companions can't even do FG1. That's hilarious.

fred4

They should take a leaf from Dragon Age: Origins, specifically the combat tactics screen. Better yet, allow addons to control companion abilities and someone will surely write an addon to at least do stuff like "heal if not on cooldown and below 50% health". In DA:O there was an Advanced Combat Tactics mod that was pretty good. By offloading this to addon authors there will at least be a chance we get half-decent AI in the short term. Of course that will only work on PC...

goldenarcher1

Just took Mirri to Direfrost keep and she deffo. can't trigger the pressure plates.You can get her to walk on them but the plates do not drop sadly.

Did a couple of bosses and she survived a little while due to ranged bow attacks but obviously melted when the boss cuaght her up.

Could maybe slot inner rage on player to keep aggro off her which might work better.

Very early days for companions though.

SirAndy

goldenarcher1 wrote: »

Just took Mirri to Direfrost keep and she deffo. can't trigger the pressure plates.You can get her to walk on them but the plates do not drop sadly.

That is sad indeed but i'm not surprised. The pressure plates don't work for non human pets either.

thedoodle_90

I mena easy fixes? Make them take -90% from aoe to fix not moving out of bad and give them more DR when specced tank, and up their DMG (DPS ones are like 10k dps atm so make it like 15-20k?) I think healing is okay

FrancisCrawford

remosito wrote: »

crjs1 wrote: »

Sooooo deflating, especially as companions are the ‘selling’ point of the chapter and ZOS have bigged up thier use to help solo and duo players in dungeons.

Hopefully ZOS are just being cautious and will buff then though the PTS cycle. My main concern is the poor ai, such as not avoiding AoE red zones. I can’t see thier ai being rewritten in a meaningful way in time for launch...

just plug in the ranged mob code that makes those walk out of my aoes on a regular basis...

anyway... really is very discouraging to even wanna try them on pts... reads like not even half baked..more like not even been in the ofen at all yet... certainly not a chapter seller...

A toggle for a ranged/melee bias might help.

Nobody would ever choose the melee option, and so the long-cooldown melee "spammable" skills wouldn't ever be slotted, but so what?

Ryuvain

SirAndy wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

@SirAndy Just tested sorc pets + clanfear. They don't take any damage nor get any aggro. Tried on live server in Stone Garden and Elden Hollow solo by walking in.
Wish it did work though.

You must be doing something wrong. Did you actually fight any bosses?

I have the "Unstable Clannfear" morph and i can either command it to tank an enemy or even easier just heavy attack a target and it will attack, taunt and tank that target.
It will also take damage from bosses and large mobs of ads.

Great example to really see this is the last boss in FG1.
The boss will stay focused on my Clannfear pretty much the whole fight and rarely go after me.

Yep, mind that I'm only talking live servers. No aggro or damage at all. Even on bosses. Using clanfear and twilight.

I can test pts tomorrow, was trying out companions all day.

SirAndy

Ryuvain wrote: »

Yep, mind that I'm only talking live servers. No aggro or damage at all. Even on bosses. Using clanfear and twilight.
I can test pts tomorrow, was trying out companions all day.

That is odd indeed. I'm talking live server (PC/NA). I've been running this setup for years (literally) and it works for me. No twilight, just the Clannfear. In fact, i just ran two group dungeons solo last night. (Darkshade Caverns I and City of Ash I )

My Clannfear taunts and holds aggro, even on bosses and it does take damage (albeit less than for overland).

And i recall ZOS making these exact statements back then, that they only removed the taunt and added invulnerability if you are grouped, but left it in when you are solo.

GrumpyDuckling

Can our own skills and sets buff and shield our companions?

For examples:
If we cast Molten Armaments will it give our companions major brutality and sorcery?
If we wear sets like Combat Physician will it shield the companion?