Would you like competitive PVP arenas to be introduced in ESO ?

Janus_Cruenti

NO

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Hyper competitive PvP ruins communities. It builds team and individual notoriety/fame, but the community as a whole degrades into a toxic mess.

As ESO doesn't separate the PvE and PvP balance, it would spell disaster for the rest of the game. No thanks.

There are plenty of games out there that do much better in the PvP realm. Pick one of those and fill yer boots.

This ^^^^^

_Zathras_ wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I just came back from spending the last 7 months in WoW. From what I have seen, and what I have listened to from the community, is that Ian's pushpushpush to move WoW into an e-sport is having a really corrosive effect on the game as a whole. In my earlier comment, this is what I was referring to. I'm glad you clarified that this was what you wanted to bring over into ESO.

The game ends up getting balanced around the e-sport, extra funding gets funneled there, all the publicity now highlights it so the media picks it up in hopes that it will really take off.. Then the hyper competitive PvP mentality spreads, with streamers showcasing the gear and builds that the competitors are using to win, which in turn bleeds into the new meta. Then the meta chasers mimic those, and toxicity and discrimination increases if you don't follow suit.

No, I'm not exaggerating with those comments. This is currently what is happening in WoW. Ian's push for e-sports is having a detrimental trickle-down effect on the rest of the game, including PvE. Game balance revolves around the favored arena classes (including Ian's favorite classes), and everything else falls short.

Again, no thanks.

If you want that, you know where to find it.

This sums it up perfectly. This effect is noticeable in many games, which I as a more "casual" player find really dissapointing. Unless you create a complete seperate balancing for PvP (which would raise other issues), putting competitive PvP in the focus will necessarily cause existing game mechanics to be balanced arround this new PvP mode to make it actually competitive. The thing is, ESO is simply not made in my eyes to be competitive. PvP in Cyro is not competitive. There are various examples of why 1v1-3v3 isn't intended for the gameplay but rather cooperative group gameplay. So if you want to have a balanced, fair, competitive gamemode, that would most likely harm the other groups (casual PvP/PvE, etc.).

I also don't think competitive "Esport" would fit in the theme of ESO in general. One strength of ESO is that you can do a lot of combinations with your builds, even without having to rely on stereotype meta-builds. Sure, it's a thing, but unless you want to be overly optimized for trials or have other, very ambitious goals, it doesn't really matter. You can still participate in pretty much anything. That would change if balancing is evolving around competitive gameplay.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Janus_Cruenti wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Hyper competitive PvP ruins communities. It builds team and individual notoriety/fame, but the community as a whole degrades into a toxic mess.

As ESO doesn't separate the PvE and PvP balance, it would spell disaster for the rest of the game. No thanks.

There are plenty of games out there that do much better in the PvP realm. Pick one of those and fill yer boots.

This ^^^^^

_Zathras_ wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I just came back from spending the last 7 months in WoW. From what I have seen, and what I have listened to from the community, is that Ian's pushpushpush to move WoW into an e-sport is having a really corrosive effect on the game as a whole. In my earlier comment, this is what I was referring to. I'm glad you clarified that this was what you wanted to bring over into ESO.

The game ends up getting balanced around the e-sport, extra funding gets funneled there, all the publicity now highlights it so the media picks it up in hopes that it will really take off.. Then the hyper competitive PvP mentality spreads, with streamers showcasing the gear and builds that the competitors are using to win, which in turn bleeds into the new meta. Then the meta chasers mimic those, and toxicity and discrimination increases if you don't follow suit.

No, I'm not exaggerating with those comments. This is currently what is happening in WoW. Ian's push for e-sports is having a detrimental trickle-down effect on the rest of the game, including PvE. Game balance revolves around the favored arena classes (including Ian's favorite classes), and everything else falls short.

Again, no thanks.

If you want that, you know where to find it.

This sums it up perfectly. This effect is noticeable in many games, which I as a more "casual" player find really dissapointing. Unless you create a complete seperate balancing for PvP (which would raise other issues), putting competitive PvP in the focus will necessarily cause existing game mechanics to be balanced arround this new PvP mode to make it actually competitive. The thing is, ESO is simply not made in my eyes to be competitive. PvP in Cyro is not competitive. There are various examples of why 1v1-3v3 isn't intended for the gameplay but rather cooperative group gameplay. So if you want to have a balanced, fair, competitive gamemode, that would most likely harm the other groups (casual PvP/PvE, etc.).

I also don't think competitive "Esport" would fit in the theme of ESO in general. One strength of ESO is that you can do a lot of combinations with your builds, even without having to rely on stereotype meta-builds. Sure, it's a thing, but unless you want to be overly optimized for trials or have other, very ambitious goals, it doesn't really matter. You can still participate in pretty much anything. That would change if balancing is evolving around competitive gameplay.

What you are saying is absolutely false..

Nobody asks for perfect balance. Wow does not have it and still is able to have an eSport scene at the same time as a huge PVE scene.

We PVPers are not asking for the Moon.. Just an alternative to duels, which is all we have at the moment in term of competitive PVP...something organized and with an automaic matchmaking system..

Grebcol

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Now first they have to fix the balance of the game. It is horrible unbalanced.

Xargas13

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

While I would like to see it, as I am huge 1v1 fan and seek 1v1 in BGs often, they have some balancing to do before rolling out something like that.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Xargas13 wrote: »

While I would like to see it, as I am huge 1v1 fan and seek 1v1 in BGs often, they have some balancing to do before rolling out something like that.

Not necessary.. I feel that duels are more balanced than BGs at the moment. For example a MagBlade is very strong 1v1 while it fails in BGs because of lack of tankyness and mobility..

Decimus

YES (2v2, 3v3)

[snip]

First of all let me preface this by saying that I do like ESO's combat & many other core features, otherwise I wouldn't have been playing for 7 years.


However PvP as it stands in this game is terribly implemented compared to competitors on the market.

Not only do we lack dynamic open world PvP encounters (no, Lagrodiil doesn't count bc only thing you find there nowadays is zergs), but also Battlegrounds (a core feature in most PvP/PvE MMOs that wasn't added until 3 years after ESO launched) are badly flawed by the existence of the third team which leads to RNG situations of two teams focusing yours or two teams just farming the weakest team rather than engaging in good fights - or third team just playing objectives and avoiding PvP while the actual PvPers PvP (which is what they queued for).

Team vs Team is a format that has always worked better (and will continue to do so) as 3-way fights completely take away the strategic element & replace it with RNG of who focuses who.

This is even more evident in solo queue matches, where the match is pretty much decided before it even begins if you get a bad team and/or if your team is focused by the other two teams.


...and that leads us to 2v2/3v3 arenas, another staple feature most other MMOs (not MOBAs as has been suggested earlier in this thread) have. ESO currently lacks actual competitive PvP, and it's not going to find that in the zergy unbalanced environment of Cyrodiil or the RNG infested 3rdpartygrounds.

Even more preposterous is the notion that 2v2/3v3 wouldn't be balanced - have the people making that claim played BGs lately? How's it working out playing against 4 stamcro/magcro teams with stam sorcs and NBs? Newsflash: nothing is balanced.


Not a single streamer or top tier PvPer I've ever talked to has reacted negatively to the notion of having 2v2 or 3v3 arenas in ESO.

Not a single one.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Ragnaroek93

YES (2v2, 3v3)

2v2 and 3v3 arenas would be awesome (not sure about 1v1 arenas, balance is probably too bad for this). But also needs a proper dampening mechanic (reduce healing received over time) like in WoW.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

The majority has voted. We want Arenas!

It would take minimum effort for ZOS to implement them:
- Create 2-3 small and simple arena maps (circles with diameter less than 50 yards)
- Create a queue system for 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 matches
- Create a personal ELO like rating for arenas

With the existing code from BGs this would take just a few days of developpement but the benefits for the game could be immense.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

ThorianB

NO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

People that do not PVP should have no say in this as it does not affect them at all.

I do not play this game for PVE ! I play this game for PVP and like me there are other hundreds of thousands of players !

I enjoy BGs and duels very much, I enjoy ESO PVP and I love ESO PVP combat system. I only play PVE speedrunning rungeons (vet or normal) and the ocasional trial but I find it very boring and unchallenging.

ZOS should give attention to the PVPers because, as you said, we are an overlooked community. This is the only way to grow the game into something truly great !

ThorianB

NO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

People that do not PVP should have no say in this as it does not affect them at all.

I do not play this game for PVE ! I play this game for PVP and like me there are other hundreds of thousands of players!

I enjoy BGs very much, I enjoy ESO PVP, and I love ESO PVP combat system. I only play PVE speedrunning rungeons (vet or normal) and the ocasional trial but I find it very boring and unchellanging.

ZOS should give attention to the PVPers because, as you said, we are an overlooked community. This is the only way to grow the game into something truly great !

1. Actually everyone that bought and paid for this game has an equal amount of say in the direction it takes and the content created for it. If ZOS puts resources into PVP that is resources they could put in PVE.Trying to deal with PVP balance affects PVE acquired sets, raw materials, etc. It also affects server performance, coding, etc. Its not like PVP is a separate game.
2. Let's borrow the concept of "man hours" from other industries. A man hour is how many hours it would take 1 man to perform a task. This is used to determine how long a task would take irrelevant to how many people were working on the task at the same time. It could take 1 man 500 hours or 100 men 5 hours but either way it will still take 500 man hours. Applying this concept to gaming, a very small percentage, probably around 3-8% of player man hours, is spent on PVP. The ROI for investing PVP is much lower than the ROI of investing in PVE in the game. That is why PVP gets a bone here and there and PVE gets 95% of the attention.
3. PVP is overlooked because its not worth investing in. They tinkered with it a bit to see if they could draw more of a PVP crowd and the playerbase is mostly interested in PVE. So they stopped tinkering with it mostly. Now this is partly the fault of ZOS because their 3 attempts at PVP in this game were not all that great. I would consider all 3 to be a partial commitment to what they were trying to accomplish. They just didn't put a lot of effort into making PVP good in ESO.

I am a fan of PVP games, but the PVP in this game isn't good at all. Its a CC and exploit fest, there is no player matching system or ranking system or anything that makes PVP somewhat appealing because you are being fairly matched. They can't even get equal numbers on the teams. PVP in ESO is the biggest mess of any game i have PVPed in.

When i want to PVP ill login to Eve, PUBG, Fortnite, CSGO, Apex, Valorant, etc. There are so many PVP games that focus on pvp why would i try to pvp in one were its barely an afterthought. Sure ill run BGs and run around cyro every once in awhile, but when i want to get serious about pvp, ESO is not even on my top 20 list.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

People that do not PVP should have no say in this as it does not affect them at all.

I do not play this game for PVE ! I play this game for PVP and like me there are other hundreds of thousands of players!

I enjoy BGs very much, I enjoy ESO PVP, and I love ESO PVP combat system. I only play PVE speedrunning rungeons (vet or normal) and the ocasional trial but I find it very boring and unchellanging.

ZOS should give attention to the PVPers because, as you said, we are an overlooked community. This is the only way to grow the game into something truly great !

1. Actually everyone that bought and paid for this game has an equal amount of say in the direction it takes and the content created for it. If ZOS puts resources into PVP that is resources they could put in PVE.Trying to deal with PVP balance affects PVE acquired sets, raw materials, etc. It also affects server performance, coding, etc. Its not like PVP is a separate game.
2. Let's borrow the concept of "man hours" from other industries. A man hour is how many hours it would take 1 man to perform a task. This is used to determine how long a task would take irrelevant to how many people were working on the task at the same time. It could take 1 man 500 hours or 100 men 5 hours but either way it will still take 500 man hours. Applying this concept to gaming, a very small percentage, probably around 3-8% of player man hours, is spent on PVP. The ROI for investing PVP is much lower than the ROI of investing in PVE in the game. That is why PVP gets a bone here and there and PVE gets 95% of the attention.
3. PVP is overlooked because its not worth investing in. They tinkered with it a bit to see if they could draw more of a PVP crowd and the playerbase is mostly interested in PVE. So they stopped tinkering with it mostly. Now this is partly the fault of ZOS because their 3 attempts at PVP in this game were not all that great. I would consider all 3 to be a partial commitment to what they were trying to accomplish. They just didn't put a lot of effort into making PVP good in ESO.

I am a fan of PVP games, but the PVP in this game isn't good at all. Its a CC and exploit fest, there is no player matching system or ranking system or anything that makes PVP somewhat appealing because you are being fairly matched. They can't even get equal numbers on the teams. PVP in ESO is the biggest mess of any game i have PVPed in.

When i want to PVP ill login to Eve, PUBG, Fortnite, CSGO, Apex, Valorant, etc. There are so many PVP games that focus on pvp why would i try to pvp in one were its barely an afterthought. Sure ill run BGs and run around cyro every once in awhile, but when i want to get serious about pvp, ESO is not even on my top 20 list.

Ok, I kinda see where you are comming from now and I also agree with most things you say.

I do not agree when you say that if ZOS "failed" in the implementation of different PVP system they should stop trying.

I play ESO because I am a big Elder Scroll series fan since I was almost a baby when Morrowing came out in 2000 or something.

I tried going back to WOW because the PVP system there are actually very good, but after two yers of ESO I simply couldn't stand it. WOW is a much much worse game in all aspects compared to ESO, except the implementation of competitive skill based systems.

Most ESO PVE content is very easy repetitive and boring after you reach a certain veteran level. I can simply solo almost all vet dungeons or ruin the runs of PVEers that want to enjoy the story by running them in less then 5 minuts while I do my daily dungeon on 3-4 characters. I am not a PVE guild person and I do not feel satisfaction from killing a scripted bosses. I played WOW for PVP and I play ESO for PVP.

It is a pity that ESO falls behind WOW in the implementation of quite simple systems like a PVP Arena that I am proposing in this thread. If they did it would take a minimum effort to implement and the benefits would be huge. It would keep veteran players engaged and it would bring many more eyes towards the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

ThorianB

NO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

People that do not PVP should have no say in this as it does not affect them at all.

I do not play this game for PVE ! I play this game for PVP and like me there are other hundreds of thousands of players!

I enjoy BGs very much, I enjoy ESO PVP, and I love ESO PVP combat system. I only play PVE speedrunning rungeons (vet or normal) and the ocasional trial but I find it very boring and unchellanging.

ZOS should give attention to the PVPers because, as you said, we are an overlooked community. This is the only way to grow the game into something truly great !

1. Actually everyone that bought and paid for this game has an equal amount of say in the direction it takes and the content created for it. If ZOS puts resources into PVP that is resources they could put in PVE.Trying to deal with PVP balance affects PVE acquired sets, raw materials, etc. It also affects server performance, coding, etc. Its not like PVP is a separate game.
2. Let's borrow the concept of "man hours" from other industries. A man hour is how many hours it would take 1 man to perform a task. This is used to determine how long a task would take irrelevant to how many people were working on the task at the same time. It could take 1 man 500 hours or 100 men 5 hours but either way it will still take 500 man hours. Applying this concept to gaming, a very small percentage, probably around 3-8% of player man hours, is spent on PVP. The ROI for investing PVP is much lower than the ROI of investing in PVE in the game. That is why PVP gets a bone here and there and PVE gets 95% of the attention.
3. PVP is overlooked because its not worth investing in. They tinkered with it a bit to see if they could draw more of a PVP crowd and the playerbase is mostly interested in PVE. So they stopped tinkering with it mostly. Now this is partly the fault of ZOS because their 3 attempts at PVP in this game were not all that great. I would consider all 3 to be a partial commitment to what they were trying to accomplish. They just didn't put a lot of effort into making PVP good in ESO.

I am a fan of PVP games, but the PVP in this game isn't good at all. Its a CC and exploit fest, there is no player matching system or ranking system or anything that makes PVP somewhat appealing because you are being fairly matched. They can't even get equal numbers on the teams. PVP in ESO is the biggest mess of any game i have PVPed in.

When i want to PVP ill login to Eve, PUBG, Fortnite, CSGO, Apex, Valorant, etc. There are so many PVP games that focus on pvp why would i try to pvp in one were its barely an afterthought. Sure ill run BGs and run around cyro every once in awhile, but when i want to get serious about pvp, ESO is not even on my top 20 list.

Ok, I kinda see where you are comming from now and I also agree with most things you say.

I do not agree when you say that if ZOS "failed" in the implementation of different PVP system they should stop trying.

I play ESO because I am a big Elder Scroll series fan since I was almost a baby when Morrowing came out in 2000 or something.

I tried going back to WOW because the PVP system there are actually very good, but after two yers of ESO I simply couldn't stand it. WOW is a much much worse game in all aspects compared to ESO, except the implementation of competitive skill based systems.

Most ESO PVE content is very easy repetitive and boring after you reach a certain veteran level. I can simply solo almost all vet dungeons or ruin the runs of PVEers that want to enjoy the story by running them in less then 5 minuts while I do my daily dungeon on 3-4 characters. I am not a PVE guild person and I do not feel satisfaction from killing a scripted bosses. I played WOW for PVP and I play ESO for PVP.

It is a pity that ESO falls behind WOW in the implementation of quite simple systems like a PVP Arena that I am proposing in this thread. If they did it would take a minimum effort to implement and the benefits would be huge. It would keep veteran players engaged and it would bring many more eyes towards the game..

I played wow about 10 years ago for 2-3 years. There were a few things in wow PVP that i didn't like. But the battlegrounds of WoW, at least when i played, were far far better than the BGs we have here. I was excited, having played BGs in several games, to see them here. Then after i did a few matches, i realized how many flaws ESO BGs and combat in general has when it comes to PVP. I found Cyro even more disappointing and IC was a complete joke.

If they are going to work on PVP, the first two things they should do is separate PVP and PVE gear and rework BGs. I think BGs would probably be the easiest thing to rework and make interesting to players. Cyro and IC would need a lot of love, but i think BGs just need some uniqueness like Wow Bgs had when i played. They could also work on a ranking/matching system that could be used later for other content.

I wouldn't do a new arena style though and definitely wouldn't try to turn ESO into some sort of Esport or encourage that type of gameplay. They need to just fix what they got and make it decent and appealing to players.

Also you shouldn't tag Gina and Brian constantly. The more you tag them the less likely they are to look at why you are tagging. It would be like me saying " Hey...hey...hey....hey...hey....hey" Also when people quote your post that tags them, it tags them again. ( notice i removed them from the quote)

Instead when you do a poll or thread, let the replies run in it and people vote and what have you. Then tag them once later on in the thread so they can see the discussion that took place and the polling. They are more likely to pay attention to a thread that tags them once, then one that tags them 30 times. Just because they don't respond doesn't mean they don't see it, read it, or take down notes on the discussion in the thread.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

People that do not PVP should have no say in this as it does not affect them at all.

I do not play this game for PVE ! I play this game for PVP and like me there are other hundreds of thousands of players!

I enjoy BGs very much, I enjoy ESO PVP, and I love ESO PVP combat system. I only play PVE speedrunning rungeons (vet or normal) and the ocasional trial but I find it very boring and unchellanging.

ZOS should give attention to the PVPers because, as you said, we are an overlooked community. This is the only way to grow the game into something truly great !

1. Actually everyone that bought and paid for this game has an equal amount of say in the direction it takes and the content created for it. If ZOS puts resources into PVP that is resources they could put in PVE.Trying to deal with PVP balance affects PVE acquired sets, raw materials, etc. It also affects server performance, coding, etc. Its not like PVP is a separate game.
2. Let's borrow the concept of "man hours" from other industries. A man hour is how many hours it would take 1 man to perform a task. This is used to determine how long a task would take irrelevant to how many people were working on the task at the same time. It could take 1 man 500 hours or 100 men 5 hours but either way it will still take 500 man hours. Applying this concept to gaming, a very small percentage, probably around 3-8% of player man hours, is spent on PVP. The ROI for investing PVP is much lower than the ROI of investing in PVE in the game. That is why PVP gets a bone here and there and PVE gets 95% of the attention.
3. PVP is overlooked because its not worth investing in. They tinkered with it a bit to see if they could draw more of a PVP crowd and the playerbase is mostly interested in PVE. So they stopped tinkering with it mostly. Now this is partly the fault of ZOS because their 3 attempts at PVP in this game were not all that great. I would consider all 3 to be a partial commitment to what they were trying to accomplish. They just didn't put a lot of effort into making PVP good in ESO.

I am a fan of PVP games, but the PVP in this game isn't good at all. Its a CC and exploit fest, there is no player matching system or ranking system or anything that makes PVP somewhat appealing because you are being fairly matched. They can't even get equal numbers on the teams. PVP in ESO is the biggest mess of any game i have PVPed in.

When i want to PVP ill login to Eve, PUBG, Fortnite, CSGO, Apex, Valorant, etc. There are so many PVP games that focus on pvp why would i try to pvp in one were its barely an afterthought. Sure ill run BGs and run around cyro every once in awhile, but when i want to get serious about pvp, ESO is not even on my top 20 list.

Ok, I kinda see where you are comming from now and I also agree with most things you say.

I do not agree when you say that if ZOS "failed" in the implementation of different PVP system they should stop trying.

I play ESO because I am a big Elder Scroll series fan since I was almost a baby when Morrowing came out in 2000 or something.

I tried going back to WOW because the PVP system there are actually very good, but after two yers of ESO I simply couldn't stand it. WOW is a much much worse game in all aspects compared to ESO, except the implementation of competitive skill based systems.

Most ESO PVE content is very easy repetitive and boring after you reach a certain veteran level. I can simply solo almost all vet dungeons or ruin the runs of PVEers that want to enjoy the story by running them in less then 5 minuts while I do my daily dungeon on 3-4 characters. I am not a PVE guild person and I do not feel satisfaction from killing a scripted bosses. I played WOW for PVP and I play ESO for PVP.

It is a pity that ESO falls behind WOW in the implementation of quite simple systems like a PVP Arena that I am proposing in this thread. If they did it would take a minimum effort to implement and the benefits would be huge. It would keep veteran players engaged and it would bring many more eyes towards the game..

I played wow about 10 years ago for 2-3 years. There were a few things in wow PVP that i didn't like. But the battlegrounds of WoW, at least when i played, were far far better than the BGs we have here. I was excited, having played BGs in several games, to see them here. Then after i did a few matches, i realized how many flaws ESO BGs and combat in general has when it comes to PVP. I found Cyro even more disappointing and IC was a complete joke.

If they are going to work on PVP, the first two things they should do is separate PVP and PVE gear and rework BGs. I think BGs would probably be the easiest thing to rework and make interesting to players. Cyro and IC would need a lot of love, but i think BGs just need some uniqueness like Wow Bgs had when i played. They could also work on a ranking/matching system that could be used later for other content.

I wouldn't do a new arena style though and definitely wouldn't try to turn ESO into some sort of Esport or encourage that type of gameplay. They need to just fix what they got and make it decent and appealing to players.

Also you shouldn't tag Gina and Brian constantly. The more you tag them the less likely they are to look at why you are tagging. It would be like me saying " Hey...hey...hey....hey...hey....hey" Also when people quote your post that tags them, it tags them again. ( notice i removed them from the quote)

Instead when you do a poll or thread, let the replies run in it and people vote and what have you. Then tag them once later on in the thread so they can see the discussion that took place and the polling. They are more likely to pay attention to a thread that tags them once, then one that tags them 30 times. Just because they don't respond doesn't mean they don't see it, read it, or take down notes on the discussion in the thread.

I tag them only when I make what I consider constructive recomandations on improving the game.

I personally like BGs in ESO. The 3 alliance system is actually enjoyable, involes more strategy and avoids total domination of a team over another. I want BGs to stay as they are.

Cyro wasfun too. I stopped playing it now when they banned 95% of my sets and they took all the fun out of it by making it a zerg feast or an empty desert outside of prime time but I will enjoy it again when the fun gameplay options are allowed again.

IC is very cutthroat and it greatly favours classes with high mobility and ability to escape like Magsor or NB but I still play it from time to time.

What casual PVPers didn't notice is the big dueling scene that is going on. In Bergama in prime time there will be 40+ people dueling (in multiple instances, so more like a couple of hundreds). It would be great to give these dedicated PVPers something to compete in. Arenas would be a boon for them and for all the others who want quick PVP without having to spend 15 minutes in BGs.

Greasytengu

YES (2v2, 3v3)

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

this thread was originally posted in general and was moved here.

Dunning_Kruger

YES (2v2, 3v3)

just copy WoW Arena; it works and is the most successful competitive pvp rn (most esport spotlight for an mmorpg and larger pop); granted "competitive" MMORPG pvp is extremely niche.

taugrim

WolfyRaps wrote: »

It actually enhanced the game by a lot and the unanimous oppinion is that Arenas were one of the best things that happened to WOW.

It is definitely not unanimous. Not even close.

One of WoW's senior devs said 8 or 9 years ago that he wished they had never launched Arenas because it was hard to balance (or IMO exposed how poor the balance was).

There were a lot of players who hated it as content and preferred BGs. Arenas really highlighted class balance issues. E.g. lots of the top-rated teams were full of the meta classes (e.g. DK + healer was the meta in WotLK and Cata).

Arenas were poorly implemented in terms of gear differentials prior to Cataclysm. In Cata, anyone could earn Arena gear (which I thought was more fair), it's just the rate you earned Arena points depended on your ELO at the end of a given week.

P.S. I really enjoyed 2v2 and 3v3 Arenas, was over 2k rated in both brackets in Cataclysm with Prot Pally, back when people thought they were dead after WotLK.

Amottica

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Could you elaborate what a competetive PvP arena looks like, and how it would differ from a BG?

I think they are just suggesting two teams vs three rather than a different type of BG rather than a more competitive design.

Personally, I think 4v4 to 8v8 would be a better design. No ability to choose between them or the type of match. 1v1 is merely dueling.

Moonsorrow

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Mayrael wrote: »

You know that PvErs will vote no, because new pvp content means new pvp rewards, sometimes really nice so they will have to play pvp to get them, thus the less new pvp content the better for them :P

Had not thought it like that before, but yeah.. makes sense sadly.

Too bad i enjoy both pvp and pve and wish we would get content for both regularly.

N_L

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Not only do we need arenas badly for PvP side of the game we need some real incentives to play PvP. Right now it's just for fun of it but what's the point of doing BGs for example when winning them don't really matters?

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

N_L wrote: »

Not only do we need arenas badly for PvP side of the game we need some real incentives to play PvP. Right now it's just for fun of it but what's the point of doing BGs for example when winning them don't really matters?

It gets you higher on some pointless ladder that resets every week and that is based on how many games you play, not on your W/L ratio.

There are really no game incentives to PVP in this game. The gear you get from it is usually trash and you have nothing to show for at the end of the day.

This is why it's impresive that despite any lack of incentives the PVP in this game is still going strong just for its intrinsic fun.

It is past time that ZOS gives the PVPers some attention and incentives by implementing an Arena system.

WaltherCarraway

NO

Toxicity

Elo106

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Yes please cyro fix aint happening, not any time soon anyways, give us more small scale pvp options!

TheAlphaRaider

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

I would like to see ZOS respond to the community one this topic.

ivramirez

TheAlphaRaider wrote: »

I would like to see ZOS respond to the community one this topic.

Unlikely. my friend

Back to the main topic, ZOS need to add something to the PVP content, something whatever, even a single small map area where people can go just to kill them self. PVP needs something, some kind of content whatever it might be. arenas 2 v2 1 vs 1 will be a great concept.

jad11mumbler

YES (2v2, 3v3)

I'd love more PvP options in This game.

But the PvE and casual crowd are so vocally against everything and anything PvP related, ontop of zos pushing away PvPers over the years with lack of additional content and making messing up PvP.
In addition to the lack of ways to monetise PvP so they don't directly make money from it.

I don't see ZoS ever adding anything meaningful to PvP, or even properly fixing what we do have.

TheBonesXXX

NO

Decimus wrote: »

[snip]

First of all let me preface this by saying that I do like ESO's combat & many other core features, otherwise I wouldn't have been playing for 7 years.


However PvP as it stands in this game is terribly implemented compared to competitors on the market.

Not only do we lack dynamic open world PvP encounters (no, Lagrodiil doesn't count bc only thing you find there nowadays is zergs), but also Battlegrounds (a core feature in most PvP/PvE MMOs that wasn't added until 3 years after ESO launched) are badly flawed by the existence of the third team which leads to RNG situations of two teams focusing yours or two teams just farming the weakest team rather than engaging in good fights - or third team just playing objectives and avoiding PvP while the actual PvPers PvP (which is what they queued for).

Team vs Team is a format that has always worked better (and will continue to do so) as 3-way fights completely take away the strategic element & replace it with RNG of who focuses who.

This is even more evident in solo queue matches, where the match is pretty much decided before it even begins if you get a bad team and/or if your team is focused by the other two teams.


...and that leads us to 2v2/3v3 arenas, another staple feature most other MMOs (not MOBAs as has been suggested earlier in this thread) have. ESO currently lacks actual competitive PvP, and it's not going to find that in the zergy unbalanced environment of Cyrodiil or the RNG infested 3rdpartygrounds.

Even more preposterous is the notion that 2v2/3v3 wouldn't be balanced - have the people making that claim played BGs lately? How's it working out playing against 4 stamcro/magcro teams with stam sorcs and NBs? Newsflash: nothing is balanced.


Not a single streamer or top tier PvPer I've ever talked to has reacted negatively to the notion of having 2v2 or 3v3 arenas in ESO.

Not a single one.

[snip]

I voted no. Not because PvE, I don't care. But because I have the experience to know that the pinnacle of skill isn't in an isolated environment.

Arenas and Battlegrounds are training wheels to true your red, your dead open world full loot PKing.

[Edited to remove Non-Constructive Content]

TheBonesXXX

NO

divnyi wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

There's no reason to dedicate anymore resources to anything PvP other than Cyrodiil and sewers.

I'd prefer they remove BGs entirely.

I guess you love zerging around.

I guess I loved when I could full loot people I didn't like.

Or I guess I love it when I could destroy entire communities for not reigning in disrespectful cretins.

Those days are gone.

I guess I loved it when if an entire zerg pissed me off I could utterly destroy a few times over till they got the point.

Those days are gone.

Maybe I'd like to see those days return. Because nothing says I don't like you like a good ole guild camping and free loot.

I especially miss Asherons Call where you could loot someone's corpse with their own inscription on it and hang it on my wall like the proud trophy it was.

TheBonesXXX

NO

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

Yes. You want to add a MOBA function to ESO. We don't need ESO to be the Walmart of video games. ESO is primarily a PVE game with a few half baked PVP features that don't really work well and add nothing but headaches and complaints to the game. The devs, generally speaking have little interest in developing PVP in this game as is evident by the update history and the quality of pvp areas they have put out.

Cyro is a disaster, IC is a complete waste of space, and battlegrounds are a snoozefest. ZOS is 3 strikes in the pvp game. No need to waste resources to make it 4.

Also this poll is quite biased since you posted in a PVP forum instead of the general. People who don't pvp get a say too. Developing such content does affect them.

People that do not PVP should have no say in this as it does not affect them at all.

I do not play this game for PVE ! I play this game for PVP and like me there are other hundreds of thousands of players!

I enjoy BGs very much, I enjoy ESO PVP, and I love ESO PVP combat system. I only play PVE speedrunning rungeons (vet or normal) and the ocasional trial but I find it very boring and unchellanging.

ZOS should give attention to the PVPers because, as you said, we are an overlooked community. This is the only way to grow the game into something truly great !

1. Actually everyone that bought and paid for this game has an equal amount of say in the direction it takes and the content created for it. If ZOS puts resources into PVP that is resources they could put in PVE.Trying to deal with PVP balance affects PVE acquired sets, raw materials, etc. It also affects server performance, coding, etc. Its not like PVP is a separate game.
2. Let's borrow the concept of "man hours" from other industries. A man hour is how many hours it would take 1 man to perform a task. This is used to determine how long a task would take irrelevant to how many people were working on the task at the same time. It could take 1 man 500 hours or 100 men 5 hours but either way it will still take 500 man hours. Applying this concept to gaming, a very small percentage, probably around 3-8% of player man hours, is spent on PVP. The ROI for investing PVP is much lower than the ROI of investing in PVE in the game. That is why PVP gets a bone here and there and PVE gets 95% of the attention.
3. PVP is overlooked because its not worth investing in. They tinkered with it a bit to see if they could draw more of a PVP crowd and the playerbase is mostly interested in PVE. So they stopped tinkering with it mostly. Now this is partly the fault of ZOS because their 3 attempts at PVP in this game were not all that great. I would consider all 3 to be a partial commitment to what they were trying to accomplish. They just didn't put a lot of effort into making PVP good in ESO.

I am a fan of PVP games, but the PVP in this game isn't good at all. Its a CC and exploit fest, there is no player matching system or ranking system or anything that makes PVP somewhat appealing because you are being fairly matched. They can't even get equal numbers on the teams. PVP in ESO is the biggest mess of any game i have PVPed in.

When i want to PVP ill login to Eve, PUBG, Fortnite, CSGO, Apex, Valorant, etc. There are so many PVP games that focus on pvp why would i try to pvp in one were its barely an afterthought. Sure ill run BGs and run around cyro every once in awhile, but when i want to get serious about pvp, ESO is not even on my top 20 list.

FPS =\= PvP. Not remotely the same, not structured the same, doesn't take the same kind of responses. FPS are twitch based point and clicks.

MMOs are not point and clicks, they require less point and click, sacrifice twitch for higher strategy, awareness, and game knowledge.

master_vanargand

NO

Battlegrounds are enough.

Well, that said, I have an idea.
I think your wish will come true if you improve the duel system so that you can fight between groups.