Would you like competitive PVP arenas to be introduced in ESO ?

WolfyRaps

1. The format will be AvA (not AvAvA like the current BGs),
2. The arena maps will be much smaller, all the matches will be in deathmatch format (no respawn),
3. The ELO like rating will be visible and the ladderboards would last season long,
4. Similar rated teams will fight each-other,
5. There will be unique rewards and titles for the top teams at the end of each season.

Zer0_CooL

Could you elaborate what a competetive PvP arena looks like, and how it would differ from a BG?

Kurat

Arenas would be nice but how would they be competitive? It would be the same mess as BGs, random skill level players all thrown together.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Could you elaborate what a competetive PvP arena looks like, and how it would differ from a BG?

It will not be AvAvA but AvA and there will be a visible rating and unique rewards for the top teams.

HalfRain216

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Large scale 10v10 deathmatch would be good with an objective like capture the base in a larger than BG landscape. Your team has to hold the base for x amount of time to win something like that.

Rasande_Robin

YES (2v2, 3v3)

I can't see how 1v1 could be fun in an arena setting. It could work with specials... like after some time the healing would gradually be reduced and in the end, end up at 0

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Could the people that answered "NO" explain their reasoning ?

matthiews

YES (2v2, 3v3)

And it would be nice that also requires a minimum and maximum cp or just a minimum to play, i mean, only playeable if u have 1000cp, and they could match in base of CP and elo, not only "elo" like 1000cp to 1500cp, 1501cp to 2000cp, this could be a big motivator to focus on level up CP.

This game is awesome but i think that could be MUCH better

teh_squirrel

I think it would glaringly highlight the balance issues that exist in the game. You water that down by throwing more bodies into the mix.

_Zathras_

NO

Hyper competitive PvP ruins communities. It builds team and individual notoriety/fame, but the community as a whole degrades into a toxic mess.

As ESO doesn't separate the PvE and PvP balance, it would spell disaster for the rest of the game. No thanks.

There are plenty of games out there that do much better in the PvP realm. Pick one of those and fill yer boots.

HalfRain216

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Hyper competitive PvP ruins communities. It builds team and individual notoriety/fame, but the community as a whole degrades into a toxic mess.

As ESO doesn't separate the PvE and PvP balance, it would spell disaster for the rest of the game. No thanks.

There are plenty of games out there that do much better in the PvP realm. Pick one of those and fill yer boots.

Think that’s just being to sensitive bro...

JMadFour

Eh, don’t care.

I’ll never engage with it. If it makes ya’ll happy then by all means go for it.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Hyper competitive PvP ruins communities. It builds team and individual notoriety/fame, but the community as a whole degrades into a toxic mess.

As ESO doesn't separate the PvE and PvP balance, it would spell disaster for the rest of the game. No thanks.

There are plenty of games out there that do much better in the PvP realm. Pick one of those and fill yer boots.

What I am describing is the WOW arena system.

It did not destroy the game there. It just made a game that in general is much worse tha ESO worth playing. It actually enhanced the game by a lot and the unanimous oppinion is that Arenas were one of the best things that happened to WOW.

JKorr

Would it get rid of the dueling around way shrines and in towns?

nukk3r

NO

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

JKorr wrote: »

Would it get rid of the dueling around way shrines and in towns?

Yes

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

bmnoble

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Not opposed to them adding an instanced dueling arena for 1vs1 in a similar way to battlegrounds, preferably 2 queues one with CP enabled one without out.

As for the 2vs2 or 3vs3 don't see how that will be any different than existing battlegrounds.

They would also likely need to add a time limit or some mechanic that kills the players who are taking too long, I could see some troll taking a tank/healer build into the queue causing the fight to go on until one side quits.

Like with SWTOR for example in their equivalent of battlegrounds if the fight goes beyond a certain time limit (due to healers and tanks preventing either side from being killed off, especially when the matchmaking fills both teams with just healers and tanks, less common in ESO but it happens enough in SWTOR to force them to add this mechanic) a poison mist/cloud spreads out across the arena last surviving team members team wins, usually always some cloaked players just hides hoping the mist kills off the enemy but it works for the most part.

Daraklus

NO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I don't think you've been playing Arenas in WoW lately. I have, and I can easily tell you it's not all what it's cracked up to be.

You said it yourself; Classes are not "Perfectly balanced", and it isn't just "One class does a bit better than another", there are instances of one-shot Druids or unkillable yet deadly Fire MagesAt least, it was like that when I last played a few months ago, they could've been toned down but the point is that it was a nightmare in the Arena.

Now put that into ESO's setting in which it would be a proper balancing nightmare with how the "Character Customization" works, and you'll end up in scenarios where matches will last five seconds, given that the time-to-kill is already shockingly low in Battlegrounds and in Cyrodiil.

Only way I can see myself being onboard with this idea is if you were given Gladiator Rainments that would negate some of the power given by sets that people wear. Maybe also a choice of what weapons and abilities to use as well.

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

bmnoble wrote: »

Not opposed to them adding an instanced dueling arena for 1vs1 in a similar way to battlegrounds, preferably 2 queues one with CP enabled one without out.

As for the 2vs2 or 3vs3 don't see how that will be any different than existing battlegrounds.

They would also likely need to add a time limit or some mechanic that kills the players who are taking too long, I could see some troll taking a tank/healer build into the queue causing the fight to go on until one side quits.

Like with SWTOR for example in their equivalent of battlegrounds if the fight goes beyond a certain time limit (due to healers and tanks preventing either side from being killed off, especially when the matchmaking fills both teams with just healers and tanks, less common in ESO but it happens enough in SWTOR to force them to add this mechanic) a poison mist/cloud spreads out across the arena last surviving team members team wins, usually always some cloaked players just hides hoping the mist kills off the enemy but it works for the most part.

Or just a gradual healing reduction (after 1-2minutes healing decreases gradually all the way to zero) would do the trick and would not allow tank/heal setups to be competitive..

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Daraklus wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I don't think you've been playing Arenas in WoW lately. I have, and I can easily tell you it's not all what it's cracked up to be.

You said it yourself; Classes are not "Perfectly balanced", and it isn't just "One class does a bit better than another", there are instances of one-shot Druids or unkillable yet deadly Fire MagesAt least, it was like that when I last played a few months ago, they could've been toned down but the point is that it was a nightmare in the Arena.

Now put that into ESO's setting in which it would be a proper balancing nightmare with how the "Character Customization" works, and you'll end up in scenarios where matches will last five seconds, given that the time-to-kill is already shockingly low in Battlegrounds and in Cyrodiil.

Only way I can see myself being onboard with this idea is if you were given Gladiator Rainments that would negate some of the power given by sets that people wear. Maybe also a choice of what weapons and abilities to use as well.

I have played WOW arena a lot in TBC and WOTLK to gladiator ranks.. I have not played WOW lately..

I think ESO is more suited at the moment for Arenas than wow. And the fact that there are people worrying about both the matches beeing too long or too short tells that the ESO PVP is in a good spot..

It just need Arenas to become the top MMO on the market by far..

_Zathras_

NO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I just came back from spending the last 7 months in WoW. From what I have seen, and what I have listened to from the community, is that Ian's pushpushpush to move WoW into an e-sport is having a really corrosive effect on the game as a whole. In my earlier comment, this is what I was referring to. I'm glad you clarified that this was what you wanted to bring over into ESO.

The game ends up getting balanced around the e-sport, extra funding gets funneled there, all the publicity now highlights it so the media picks it up in hopes that it will really take off.. Then the hyper competitive PvP mentality spreads, with streamers showcasing the gear and builds that the competitors are using to win, which in turn bleeds into the new meta. Then the meta chasers mimic those, and toxicity and discrimination increases if you don't follow suit.

No, I'm not exaggerating with those comments. This is currently what is happening in WoW. Ian's push for e-sports is having a detrimental trickle-down effect on the rest of the game, including PvE. Game balance revolves around the favored arena classes (including Ian's favorite classes), and everything else falls short.

Again, no thanks.

If you want that, you know where to find it.

Starlight_Whisper

Sounds like what we have no?

Daraklus

NO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I don't think you've been playing Arenas in WoW lately. I have, and I can easily tell you it's not all what it's cracked up to be.

You said it yourself; Classes are not "Perfectly balanced", and it isn't just "One class does a bit better than another", there are instances of one-shot Druids or unkillable yet deadly Fire MagesAt least, it was like that when I last played a few months ago, they could've been toned down but the point is that it was a nightmare in the Arena.

Now put that into ESO's setting in which it would be a proper balancing nightmare with how the "Character Customization" works, and you'll end up in scenarios where matches will last five seconds, given that the time-to-kill is already shockingly low in Battlegrounds and in Cyrodiil.

Only way I can see myself being onboard with this idea is if you were given Gladiator Rainments that would negate some of the power given by sets that people wear. Maybe also a choice of what weapons and abilities to use as well.

I have played WOW arena a lot in TBC and WOTLK to gladiator ranks.. I have not played WOW lately..

I think ESO is more suited at the moment for Arenas than wow. And the fact that there are people worrying about both the matches beeing too long or too short tells that the ESO PVP is in a good spot..

It just need Arenas to become the top MMO on the market by far..

So you have no knowledge about the current state of WoW Arenas. You keep talking about them as if they are a great thing even today, but have only experience from about a decade ago. Well I have recent knowledge and I can tell you that they aren't all that great.

Worrying about Arena matches being "Too long" or "Too short" doesn't say anything about PvP being in a good spot. If anything it might imply that there is a fault somewhere that ought to be looked in to.

For a while people were talking about unkillable tanks or healers that could outheal anything thrown at them. That is not a good thing.
Then there are people talking about getting one-shot by other players from stealth or from a distance. That is also not a good thing.

If people were instead saying that there is a good balance between the two then you could say that the PvP is "In a good spot", but since you don't see people mention that well.... It makes you wonder.

Now I would like to understand what you mean by "Arenas to become the top MMO on the market". It sounds like code for something as the sentence by itself makes no sense.

Edit: Before you say "But it works in WoW", I would just like to remind you that you played WoW Arenas back when the game was fairly simple in design and playstyle. If you were to compare WoW from Wrath to WoW in Shadowlands, you'd see a massive difference between the two.

PizzaCat82

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

1v1 to become the most exploited arena in Tamriel.

_Zathras_

NO

Here are a couple of links to show you what I mean. You will get a pretty good idea of how allergic the WoW community has become towards Ian's attemtps to transition the game into an eport.

Welcome to the Great Push!

Esports Have Ruined the Game

WoW is an MMO

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Daraklus wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

There's a whole genre of games that offer what you described, it's called MOBA. And they do it better than it would ever be possible in a MMO. It won't work without a proper rebalance of classes and gear, and a complete separation of PvP and PvE.

It does work in WOW which is a pure MMO. Classes are not perfectly balanced but every class still finds its place in high rated Arenas. So much so that Arenas from WOW are eSport level good.. which brings a huge audience and many people into the game..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I don't think you've been playing Arenas in WoW lately. I have, and I can easily tell you it's not all what it's cracked up to be.

You said it yourself; Classes are not "Perfectly balanced", and it isn't just "One class does a bit better than another", there are instances of one-shot Druids or unkillable yet deadly Fire MagesAt least, it was like that when I last played a few months ago, they could've been toned down but the point is that it was a nightmare in the Arena.

Now put that into ESO's setting in which it would be a proper balancing nightmare with how the "Character Customization" works, and you'll end up in scenarios where matches will last five seconds, given that the time-to-kill is already shockingly low in Battlegrounds and in Cyrodiil.

Only way I can see myself being onboard with this idea is if you were given Gladiator Rainments that would negate some of the power given by sets that people wear. Maybe also a choice of what weapons and abilities to use as well.

I have played WOW arena a lot in TBC and WOTLK to gladiator ranks.. I have not played WOW lately..

I think ESO is more suited at the moment for Arenas than wow. And the fact that there are people worrying about both the matches beeing too long or too short tells that the ESO PVP is in a good spot..

It just need Arenas to become the top MMO on the market by far..

So you have no knowledge about the current state of WoW Arenas. You keep talking about them as if they are a great thing even today, but have only experience from about a decade ago. Well I have recent knowledge and I can tell you that they aren't all that great.

Worrying about Arena matches being "Too long" or "Too short" doesn't say anything about PvP being in a good spot. If anything it might imply that there is a fault somewhere that ought to be looked in to.

For a while people were talking about unkillable tanks or healers that could outheal anything thrown at them. That is not a good thing.

Then there are people talking about getting one-shot by other players from stealth or from a distance. That is also not a good thing.

If people were instead saying that there is a good balance between the two then you could say that the PvP is "In a good spot", but since you don't see people mention that well.... It makes you wonder.

Now I would like to understand what you mean by "Arenas to become the top MMO on the market". It sounds like code for something as the sentence by itself makes no sense.

Many top PVPers say that the curent BG scene is in a good spot. The avarage player of course it will complain. But the fact that he complains that damage or tankyness are either too hight or too low means that they are right where they should be..

An Arena scene would breath real new life into the PVP scene by giving PVPers something to aim for.

ESport attracts new eyes towards a game and this would bring many new players into ESO.

Daraklus

NO

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Many top PVPers say that the curent BG scene is in a good spot. The avarage player of course it will complain. But the fact that he complains that damage or tankyness are either too hight or too low means that they are right where they should be..

An Arena scene would real new life into the PVP scene by giving PVPers something to aim for.

ESport would bring new eyes towards a game and this brings many new players into ESO.

I don't care what "Top PvPers" have to say about Battlegrounds, as they don't relate to me in the slightest. I care more about the on-the-ground average player's opinion than someone who is living in their own world

You keep talking about "Bringing ESports" to the game, but let me tell you that you CANNOT force an E-Sports scene onto a game. You have to let it materialize organically, forcing it and trying to make a game around an E-Sports scene makes the game feel less about playing for the fun of it and more "You MUST play to be the best". I want to play PvP to have fun, not to aspire to be some kind of top-ranked super l33t PvP player.

Just look at what happened to Heroes of the Storm, another game from Blizzard; Game is really fun to play, but Activision and Blizzard tried to force an E-Sports scene onto it, and when it didn't kick off they abandoned the game completely.

Mayrael

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

You know that PvErs will vote no, because new pvp content means new pvp rewards, sometimes really nice so they will have to play pvp to get them, thus the less new pvp content the better for them :P

Vlad9425

Should we get a dedicated arena where people who like to duel can go? Yes of course! Should there be leaderboards and rewards associated with this? Absolutely not!

WolfyRaps

YES (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)

Daraklus wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Many top PVPers say that the curent BG scene is in a good spot. The avarage player of course it will complain. But the fact that he complains that damage or tankyness are either too hight or too low means that they are right where they should be..

An Arena scene would real new life into the PVP scene by giving PVPers something to aim for.

ESport would bring new eyes towards a game and this brings many new players into ESO.

I don't care what "Top PvPers" have to say about Battlegrounds, as they don't relate to me in the slightest. I care more about the on-the-ground average player's opinion than someone who is living in their own world

You keep talking about "Bringing ESports" to the game, but let me tell you that you CANNOT force an E-Sports scene onto a game. You have to let it materialize organically, forcing it and trying to make a game around an E-Sports scene makes the game feel less about playing for the fun of it and more "You MUST play to be the best". I want to play PvP to have fun, not to aspire to be some kind of top-ranked super l33t PvP player.

Just look at what happened to Heroes of the Storm, another game from Blizzard; Game is really fun to play, but Activision and Blizzard tried to force an E-Sports scene onto it, and when it didn't kick off they abandoned the game completely.

No you cannot force an eSport out of nothing but you can give a game the tools to evolve into an eSport. ESO at the moment has no such tool.

Arenas would be exactly that: an environement (tool) in which a game can evolve into an eSport, with all the fame and money it comes with it.

ZOS has nothing to lose and everything to gain by implementing Arenas.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_BrianWheeler