Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

What makes ESO less appealing to twitch viewers?

  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minyassa wrote: »
    I wonder what the median age is for ESO players compared to other games. I know that there are a lot of older players here, and those of us who were already alive when video games were invented might have more of a tendency to think watching someone else play instead of playing ourselves is really frustrating and weird. That is how it hits me and several of my friends my age, it's just...watching someone else do something fun instead of doing the fun thing myself, when I could actually be doing the fun thing in that time. Kind of like watching someone else eat a sandwich when mine is in the fridge and all I have to do is go get it.

    I think the ESO player base is older than typical, which is probably partially due to the age of the Elder Scroll series, which has been around for decades. On top of that, the game is very easy to play solo, while still being able to play with others, which is a consideration once people "grow up" :smile: .

    So, it isn't like Fortnite, where the players all gather at their high school graduation, but it's isn't for _old_ players who meet up at funeral homes, either. :smile:

    I'd estimate somewhere in the 35-45 range.

    I would also suggest that the younger people, perhaps coming from an infatuation with popularity and their standing in the social order, tend to be more social about activities, decisions, and forming opinions. Doing the right things is important because someone might find out if you are not. Game streams lend well to that, as both a means to play correctly, but also as a means to ridicule those who don't.

    In opposition, my expectation is that as people get older, their "Don't Care" gene kicks in. This leads to the curmudgeonly "get off my lawn" perspective and they increasingly don't care what others think of them. The others, and the horse they rode in on, can {snip]. Twitch streams are not exactly the first place they would go, since they don't care if others think they are doing it wrong, and definitely don't care if someone else is.

    Naturally, the examples expressed in this comment are specifically designed to exaggerate the opposing sides so as to make them easier to compare. I know that, deep down, all of you care what I think and know that I am doing it right. :wink:
    Edited by Elsonso on April 15, 2021 11:44AM
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Nemeliom
    Nemeliom
    ✭✭✭✭
    My problem when I thought about streaming ESO pvp:

    1. Went into main campaign. ping gets higher because of streaming. When intense fights happen, this gets even worse. I try to keep it cool and not burst into cursing everything, but it kills me the longer it lasts.

    2. I decide going to a less populated campaign. I run in my mount for hs and hs to get into a fight. When I do, it usually lasts 5 minutes at most, depending if there are competent players. Then again mount for 15 minutes, taking a resource here and there to see if someone takes the bait. Meanwhile, I get bored, my viewers (the few there are) get bored, and stream fails.

    3. BGs: I play solo ESO, mainly because the game is not in spanish yet and not many friends play it (seriously, how lazy can you be ESO?). So when I get into a BG and fight against randoms, I have tons of fun and usually win. But when I get into a premade, there's usually not much I can do and get reked. Boring again.
    Baradur Morker - Level 50 Bosmer Nightblade
    Le-Duck - Level 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight
    Boom-Stormer - Level 50 High Elf Sorcerer
    Nemeliom the Great - Level 50 Redguard Warden
    Crazy Little Maggie - Level 50 High Elf Templar
  • rrimöykk
    rrimöykk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    rrimöykk wrote: »
    Absolutely zero competitive atmosphere around the game as it's less of a mmo than a single-player roleplaying game.

    Hmm. This whole "competitive" thing is another bit I just don't get. Who cares that Elitist Ego Guild got "world first" in Raid XYZ?


    Personally, I always thought that ESO put too much emphasis on "competitive" with those stupid PvE Leaderboards.

    I'd love to watch end game pve content but no one streams it as they want to keep their tactics to themselves which is understandable.

    Also like with Kyne's Aegis trifecta was done on PTS already. No content for the chapter left.
  • Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
    Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well I can't post messages on the Bethesda streams apparently, so I won't be watching those.
    Other than that I like to watch some comic streams with humour. If I've finished my activities it's a nice way to wind down with a cup of tea.
  • Aldia_of_Drangleic
    Aldia_of_Drangleic
    ✭✭✭
    Not interested in watching any streamer. I'm much better entertained by playing the game myself rather than watching someone playing it.
    Edited by Aldia_of_Drangleic on April 15, 2021 2:45PM
  • PizzaCat82
    PizzaCat82
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The problem I have with twitch is that the person should be more entertaining then whats on the screen, or otherwise I can just go play the game myself.
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I just don't think it translates well to watch.

    Most streams on twitch of ESO are just casual questing/day to day tasks. Not knocking anyone for it, but it isn't super exciting for most viewers and it more of a small community type thing.

    PvP has a lot of downtime for a viewer.

    It can be a while finding fights in Cyrodiil that isn't a laggy zerg fest. So it's not entertaining to watch people flip a resource to find a fight.

    BGs has too much downtime. Queues take forever to pop so chances are people will tune into a stream and someone is walking around a zone picking up mats while they wait for a BG to pop.

    I don't think you can even compare it to WOW. WOW is often in the top 10 games and no MMO is close. Plus one streamer has like a third of the total viewership which jumps it up massively.

    Not sure why the thread is full of "I don't watch any streamer" or "why would you watch a streamer". The question is about people who do watch streams...
    Edited by Brrrofski on April 15, 2021 4:47PM
  • Cryptor
    Cryptor
    ✭✭✭
    ESO has not been relevant in the gaming news at large for some time. It suffers from the same issue as Fallout 76 (though it's much further along). It had a very rough launch which generated negative impressions with a lot of people & it took years for the game to improve. People have no patience for that.

    Also, ESO is a VERY expensive game to play. DLCs are priced at full game prices and everyone has to get them, whether you have a subscription or not. The subscription itself is priced at a monthly fee rivaling xbox game pass. On top of that, there is a cash shop which includes items you can only purchase there (mind you now you have an option to find, an option which is welcomed by many). To illustrate, last month I purchased a year of subscription at $180 CAD and then still had to purchase the upcoming DLC at $80. That's $260 per year to play, assuming you don't want a collectors edition of DLCs or anything from cash shop. That's each and every year.

    IMHO, for start, ESO subscription should either be included with game pass ultimate or not but then the standard edition of the DLCs should be included in the subscription. The way things are this is just too expensive.

    Casually Xbox Guild: Discord Server - Recruiting Thread - Guild Website - My information: Instagram - Twitch Stream - Youtube Channel - Discord Server - Xbox GT: OGCryptor - Mastodon Profile
  • LettuceBrain
    LettuceBrain
    ✭✭✭
    The only ESO videos I watch are news about updates and builds. I don't really watch many videos of games being played unless I don't have the game or the person playing the game is entertaining. I mean, most people probably prefer actually playing the game themselves over watching a stream.
    they/them/theirs
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Because there are not that much entertaining/knowledgeable ones? Or people generally not interested in what they have to offer.

    This is a good point. Most streamers, and I do mean almost all of them, don't know as much about the game as people think they do and aren't as skilled as their fans seem to think they are. The ones that are are often pretty focused in their expertise - nothing wrong with that, but if you don't like the specific type of eso they are into, then their stream might not appeal to you. A lot of the time the stream is more social than related to eso and past feeling like you are a friend of that streamer and like 'hanging' with them they aren't flat out entertaining past that.

    I'm not familiar with other MMO streamers to know what they got big on as well or how those games mix with their streamers. ESO is fairly controlled. Many got a decent audience b/c they got stream team and would probably not want to rock the boat too much with zos, where as you might have streamers for wow that are big on their own right and don't have to sweat the parent company of their game as much. I don't think they are as controlled as some think, mostly they just have to be polite I think, but that doesn't many viewers don't assume they are controlled even more harshly.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • karekiz
    karekiz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I've noticed that compared to other MMOs (WOW/ FF14 being the top comparisons), ESO has a low twitch presence in the community. Not a lot of
    viewers watching ESO streamers. I'm just curious what it is about ESO that isn't as entertaining to watch compared to other MMOS.

    Lack of PVP and Hard Endgame content. If you look at the other games you mentioned (and twitch in general) the majority of things which do well are competitive pvp games or games with high end PVE content where there is some form of world first races etc.


    Unfortunately for ESO the gameplay is either laggy or uncompetitive in general which dissuades larger streamers from bringing in their audiences. And there is no form of competitive endgame for PVE outside of minor time trial improvements which don't really give any viewability factor.

    Additionally the player base is rather small in the competitive scene because the game is focused on story and housing/roleplay focused players currently which further diminishes a regular viewing base outside of 'fans' of the streamers.

    This honestly isn't exactly true. Asmongold is a top WoW streamer and he is hardly a world first streamer or top PvPer. In the end Personality beats it all.
    Edited by karekiz on April 15, 2021 6:05PM
  • Vhale
    Vhale
    ✭✭✭
    I find the voice acting in ESO makes me not want to watch other things.I don't even use Discord as much as when I played WoW. A new player who is questing wants to hear the dialog. And once you get out of the habit of twitch or any of that, its easy to drop it. WoW is mostly grinding with no dialog, so it's easier to use Twitch as side entertainment.

    Now if I am doing surveys in ESO, sure, I'll pop open Twitch and do a housing stream or something. But Twitch and Harrowstorms = dead me.
    The Ska'vyn Exchange
    Savage Blade
    Vhale Sirothe -Templar - Grand Master Crafter - Daggerfall
  • Kadraeus
    Kadraeus
    ✭✭✭✭
    I don't understand the appeal of watching streamers.


    (thinking about it, I don't watch comedians, talk-show hosts, or listen to radio personalities, either. /shrug But even ignoring the "streamer" part of it, I don't know why you'd want to watch someone play a game.)

    Most of the time I just like the person playing the game. If they make me laugh a lot, have a pleasant voice to listen to, or are just chill overall I'll watch them from time to time (especially when I'm working on other stuff). The game they're playing matters a lot too. If they're playing one of my favorite games, especially for the first time, I'm usually more interested in watching them.
  • Zorgon_The_Revenged
    Zorgon_The_Revenged
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    A quick look at twitch right now shows there isn't a huge difference, views can also change wildly due to who is streaming:-

    FFXIV has 5.8k (9th highest viewers for "MMO" tag)
    Black Desert 5k (10th highest)
    ESO 4.2k (13 highest)

    Current highest views of games tagged with "MMO":-

    1)Minecraft 296k (like WTF?!?)
    2)WOW 88.4k
    3)Escape from Tarkov 43.8k
    4)Path of Exile 33.8k
    5)Lost Ark 11.1k
    6)Old School Runescape 8.1k
    7)Destiny 2 8k
    8)Tibia 7.2k

    Streamers I watch don't play the same game all the time and don't play ESO, but when they have played, the common things they say are "I played it when it released, it was ok" and "I don't like the combat". It makes me laugh that they always say these two things and are always amazed by the graphics and that all the NPC's are voiced.
  • Hallothiel
    Hallothiel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Thank you to all those who read the post and responded to what was being asked.

    This is not meant to be an I hate twitch why would you watch people stream thread. It is a thread to share opinions of why ESO doesn’t bring as many viewers as other MMORPG’s.

    But they are replying; they are saying that they would rather play than watch. Perfectly good explanation as to why ESO does not have that many viewers.
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hallothiel wrote: »
    Thank you to all those who read the post and responded to what was being asked.

    This is not meant to be an I hate twitch why would you watch people stream thread. It is a thread to share opinions of why ESO doesn’t bring as many viewers as other MMORPG’s.

    But they are replying; they are saying that they would rather play than watch. Perfectly good explanation as to why ESO does not have that many viewers.

    The question wasn't "why does ESO not have many viewers" it was "why does it have less than other MMOs".

    So people saying "I play games rather than watch" is irrelevant.
  • kargen27
    kargen27
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've noticed that compared to other MMOs (WOW/ FF14 being the top comparisons), ESO has a low twitch presence in the community. Not a lot of
    viewers watching ESO streamers. I'm just curious what it is about ESO that isn't as entertaining to watch compared to other MMOS.

    Maybe the game is more fun than WOW and FF14 so people would rather be playing than watching others play?
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Vlad9425
    Vlad9425
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I never understood the appeal of watching gaming streams aside from Minecraft which is the only game I’ve seen streams of.
  • Jaimeh
    Jaimeh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    rrimöykk wrote: »
    Absolutely zero competitive atmosphere around the game as it's less of a mmo than a single-player roleplaying game.

    Hmm. This whole "competitive" thing is another bit I just don't get. Who cares that Elitist Ego Guild got "world first" in Raid XYZ?


    Personally, I always thought that ESO put too much emphasis on "competitive" with those stupid PvE Leaderboards.

    On the contrary, ESO has been single-mindedly catering to it's casual basis, patch after patch, and it's trying to de-emphasize end-game, which is a huge pity. Would you object to people not caring about questing? Then why object to people caring about leaderboards, if that's the enjoyment that they get from their playing? You don't have to parctcipate in it, or even look at it, if you don't like it, same with other activities in the game.
  • jssriot
    jssriot
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    Current highest views of games tagged with "MMO":-

    1)Minecraft 296k (like WTF?!?)

    Minecraft is a multiplayer game, it's one of its biggest selling points, and a lot of the streamers on Twitch are streaming on multiplayer servers, although it's not quite the same as MMO in the classic sense because those servers are far some being able to handle a "massive" player population. But it's not exactly your usual multiplayer game either. MC is a little weird like that, but since Twitch needs to put it in a box, I guess MMO is the closest fit.

    Also, Microsoft might be influencing the marketing here. They paid out the behind for it and probably want to see this game on top of every high profile list out there, just for the visibility.

    PC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.
  • Skykaiser_Ọlọrun
    I don't think ESO has a big, "hook" to draw viewers in over other MMOs. It's not a game that's ever really drawn been known for hardcore PvE or competitive PvP. And visually, the combat has never been impressive.

    Definitely one of those games that just isn't all that interesting to watch.
  • SilverBride
    SilverBride
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I never understood the appeal of watching someone else play. I tried to watch a boss fight on youtube once to get some tips, but I had no idea what they were doing. All I saw was them jumping around and a blob of skill and spell effects.

    I just don't get it.
    PCNA
  • Blacknight841
    Blacknight841
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    About to start a stream of me destroying 500 style pages...
    Edited by Blacknight841 on April 16, 2021 3:12PM
  • SilverBride
    SilverBride
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    About to start a steam of me destroying 500 style pages...

    Now that I would watch! 😄
    PCNA
  • 5_RAGEsMW
    5_RAGEsMW
    ✭✭✭
    Rarely do you see a stream with more than 100 viewers doing a godslayer run but when a top WoW guild is streaming a world first no death mythic run there's at least 50k viewers. PoE is another game that is extremely complex specially their hardcore solo self found mode where you can't trade gear or die once. They don't don't seem to have trouble getting viewers why? because people are drawn to skillful gameplay simple as that.
    Edited by 5_RAGEsMW on April 16, 2021 2:18AM
    pvp sucks.
  • SeaGtGruff
    SeaGtGruff
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know if this was already mentioned, but World of Warcraft was released in 2004, so it's been around for more than twice as long as The Elder Scrolls Online. It had a 10-year headstart over The Elder Scrolls Online as far as establishing itself, gaining fans, and growing its playerbase.

    Furthermore, World of Warcraft is rated for Teens, whereas The Elder Scrolls Online is rated for Mature players.

    I would think that those two things are probably factors in why a game like World of Warcraft has more viewers on Twitch than The Elder Scrolls Online.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I don't know if this was already mentioned, but World of Warcraft was released in 2004, so it's been around for more than twice as long as The Elder Scrolls Online. It had a 10-year headstart over The Elder Scrolls Online as far as establishing itself, gaining fans, and growing its playerbase.

    Furthermore, World of Warcraft is rated for Teens, whereas The Elder Scrolls Online is rated for Mature players.

    I would think that those two things are probably factors in why a game like World of Warcraft has more viewers on Twitch than The Elder Scrolls Online.

    WOW has a decent amount of streamers that have moved beyond that and are personalities too.

    I remember seeing something on a youtube video, that 80% of Asmongold viewers don't watch other WOW streams other than his. So he clearly has his own fan base and viewers that probably watch him regardless, even if that is WOW.
  • remosito
    remosito
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    might be age being higher?

    am an old fart. and it boggles my mind why ppl watch others play a game... 😳
    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
  • Wow
    Wow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Clunky combat that is painful to see
    I'm a Godot Engine and GameMaker enthusiast from the most populated island on earth, Java, Indonesia. Coffee is my staple fuel, and durian is my favourite fruit. I'm currently building a Godot Community site.
  • hands0medevil
    hands0medevil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Because most of the streamers stream solo questing, housing, roleplaying and it's... boring to watch. Competitive playing, both pve and pvp, is being punished and constantly nerfed. We have 1 or 2 pvp streamers and sometimes they make 50% or even more of total eso viewers. But competitive player in eso is a public enemy. It's also difficult to stream end game content with all the performance issues in game.

    Problem is ESO dev team doesn't care about endgame gameplay and twitch views because they are fine with casual, noncompetitive aspects of the game as housing etc. This is where money is atm. I'm glad we are still allowed to level up in ESO.
    Edited by hands0medevil on April 16, 2021 8:28AM
Sign In or Register to comment.