What makes ESO less appealing to twitch viewers?

Elsonso

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Absolutely zero competitive atmosphere around the game as it's less of a mmo than a single-player roleplaying game.

Hmm. This whole "competitive" thing is another bit I just don't get. Who cares that Elitist Ego Guild got "world first" in Raid XYZ?

Obviously, the elite members of the Elitist Ego Guild. Was this a trick question?

Marto wrote: »

A lot of ESO streamers focus on more casual content.

I suppose...

There are a lot of social streams where the streamer plays the game and hangs out with the viewers. Streams vary, but the popular ones that I have seen might be doing dungeon and arenas one day, then antiquities, collecting mats, decorating houses, grinding gear, Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, or something else the next. I would not say they are "casual content", but they are definitely "variety content". ESO has a very strong social community, so they do fairly well, if they can get a foothold.

There are also teachers, but fewer of them. These people are in there doing dungeons and arenas every day, but while they do it, they talk about what is happening, what they are doing, and why they are doing it. Less social, more educational. These people will show you how to do VMA and the hard mode dungeons so that you can do it yourself.

spartaxoxo

Because most people can't watch them to try to figure out stuff for themselves. The ceiling floor-gap is so big for even attempting a clear on the kind of content that gets cleared, that people aren't gonna bother. There is nothing they feel like learning.

People don't expect to get all the achievements or to beat world's best times, that's the kind of content it's exiciting to see a streamer clear because you can't do what they are doing. But not even being able to clear it super slowly? Then what's the point of learning anything about it? And if you're not clicking on them to learn anything, you wont discover that "hey actually, I really like this guys content! Let me check other stuff they have done."

CableBomb

My best friend has brought this up twice within the past week. This is what I told him:

The Elder Scrolls, while one of the strongest and most successful gaming IPs in history, is not and has never really been aimed at kiddies. The overall feel and themes of The Elder Scrolls is more serious and adult. Every game, before and after the major breakthrough of Morrowind, is very serious in tone relative to WoW and popular games. It also requires more effort therfore to invest in the lore, depth of systems and traditional RPG gameplay beyond other serious games, like popular shooters. This creates, amongst other things, a maturity and age barrier. This is one key reason I feel it does not receive significant Twitch traction.

Twitch is likely very heavily used by younger folks, which skews to newer, flashier and more easily digestible games. Just my opinion.

bmnoble

I play games I don't watch others playing them.

At most I will have a look at some of the specific guide or preview videos a few streamers put up when they are testing stuff on the PTS.

Path

I have never been one to watch others play.
Why watch when I can play?

Nestor

Why Watch a Stream when you can Play?

Cirantille

I'd watch someone play a game only if the commentary is funny or there is an intriguing story in the game

There were some youtubers who played ESO back a while, their clips were really funny- I used to watch them

Hapexamendios

What makes Twitch appealing?

Daraklus

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Maybe because ESOs age-recommendation is 16+? Thats 8 years older than your average Twitch-Viewer.

Considering the content you find on Twitch, a game rated 16+ should be the least of anyone's worry for what the average Twitch viewer would watch...

UGotBenched91

Thank you to all those who read the post and responded to what was being asked.

This is not meant to be an I hate twitch why would you watch people stream thread. It is a thread to share opinions of why ESO doesn’t bring as many viewers as other MMORPG’s.

jaws343

I personally prefer cut down combat highlights on Youtube over sitting around watching someone run around for 3 hours and only do like 40 minutes of combat.

CrimsonGTX

ESO always been in a weird spot when it comes to streamer views, at times it gets lower views than Skyrim. It could be because PvP attracts more viewers and the current state of that side of the game isn't worth playing, so people either swapped games or stopped streaming ESO. Another reason could be, people outside of the ESO community tend to look down or spread misinformation about the game. However this is a issue that BDO has also but it always keeps a higher viewership compared to ESO. So back to my first statement, ESO always been in a weird spot I can't really pinpoint why.

Nastassiya

I use to watch Tirinei and I found her to be the most entertaining, but I really can only watch someone work on their house so much. I don't need an ESO HGTV show when I come to Twitch. I'd rather go watch someone on YouTube explain the mechanics of a trial than someone mindlessly work on their house. When Bethesda does their Twitch Drops, I go there for 30 minutes, do something else as the Stream rolls on a spare laptop, and log off after I get free crate. ESO on Twitch is pretty pointless to me.

Sorry if I hurt a Streamers feelings, but this is my view.

SickleCider

ESO sponges up enough time without watching streams about it.

Flex_Mentallo

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I don't understand the appeal of watching streamers.


(thinking about it, I don't watch comedians, talk-show hosts, or listen to radio personalities, either. /shrug But even ignoring the "streamer" part of it, I don't know why you'd want to watch someone play a game.)

I got into watching streams because it was a way to see if I would buy the game they played.
Games don’t have demos all the time now so if I find a game that interests me I will check out some gameplay.

I’ve not had games spoiled I’ll leave if things heat up or seam really big. It has saved me from games I found out weren’t for me.

YandereGirlfriend

I think there are a few reasons:

1. Streaming is highly personality-driven and often NOT in a good way. Unless you play a game at the very highest level, the fastest way to attract viewers is to have an obvious "schtick" or eccentric personality. I find streamers of this ilk to be highly annoying and avoid them but many, many more are drawn to them instead. ESO tends to skew older in its player base (versus the gaming population at large) and, as such, its streamers tend to be more relaxed and adult than most other games. And the audience for watching a laid-back adult play a game calmly will always be smaller than those who want to see a wacky/loud/offensive personality rage at a game instead.

2. Lack of high-end streamers in both PvE and PvP. Elite gameplay always draws viewers but there simply aren't that many elite players that also stream in ESO. My favorite all-around ESO streamer is Nefas and he is basically the only one (along with Alcast) who I ever see streaming "World's First/Fastest" type of content with their guilds. On the PvP side, there are several highly skilled players (and PaleOrc is basically the only streamer of high-end group play) and they're usually near the top of the viewer counts when they're active, but sadly performance always creeps into those streams as an unavoidable issue and often the streams are as much the streamer fighting against the game as it is with other players. Until performance is fixed, watching elite PvP is like watching a top CS:Go player trying to stream with 25 FPS - yes, you can do it but it's an awful experience and the game is hard-capping the streamer's ability to perform at their highest level.

That said, there are many excellent ESO streamers across all types of content.

Auztinito

There’s actually simple reasons for it.


Streamers are successful on one of these two fronts

Personality - This includes how they communicate with their audience and how entertaining they themselves are whether it’s a persona or not. These types of streamer would lean into other MMOs because they work to make the stream entertaining. Gameplay takes a backseat.

Competitive - These are your esports, guides, and theorycrafters. They use their knowledge of the game and potentially skill as entertainment. Competitive games like Siege, CS: GO, Apex, Valorant, and ect allow them to pull off amazing plays and be in their element.

ESO doesn’t provide any of content that they can stream on a regular basis. But what about the new expansion and world first and PvP?

Well, combat isn’t that great in this game so PvP is a no go. It’s clunky and looks downright horrid in comparison to any other game.Vet content is limiting in terms of builds and skills. This eliminates entertainment types to play. At most, it would be for story content and role-players. However, this game decided to make most forms of PvE a competition instead of co-operative effort.

Let’s look at FFXIV, how many stream that do high end content are bitching at random players and ect for dps. Not many. Why? Moderation teams and PvE is largely solo or co-operative. There is next to no form of competition in raids or dungeons. Not to mention, the large RP fan base the game has. Hell, players actually go clubbing in FFXIV.

While this game has competitive elements, Competitive players can’t play the way the want or usually default to metas/glitches to do content as fast as possible. Basically, look at how popular speed runs are but dull it down and make it less impressive. The competitive elements are not engaging and mostly add toxicity to this game.

You mentioned Skyrim, that’s because it’s an RPG. Entertainers can work with it by creating obnoxious, silly, or rp characters in that they can make it entertaining to watch through the different ways they tackle the game. ESO doesn’t provide that at all.

Vhozek

You legit just watch people inevitably get to max level without much of a challenge and at max level you're just watching them repeat the same content over and over again for gear grinding.

Pevey

Three things:

(1) Animation canceling
(2) Animation canceling
(3) Animation canceling

I’m not saying animation canceling is bad, just that it makes the combat super boring to watch. Even for people watching really, really closely (like when you’re watching a vid of someone else’s very good parse to learn from it), it’s really difficult to tell what’s going on in combat. It’s just a bunch of barely noticeable twitches and a huge cloud of special effects. Super boring to a spectator.

Snowstrider

Maybe because ESO isnt as popular? And that ESO doesnt have many content creators other than people that post build videos.

Starlight_Whisper

Cause they don't plan ahead on purpose of stream. Worst is they just don't talk

McGordon

Look at most watched videos on twitch. Its always anly level pvp action. There are pve fans, but pvp always attract more people. PvP is lag garbage, becouse of that nothing to see here, thats the reason why there are so low %of streamers.
Majority of people that still stream eso pvp has streaming as job, so they are able to stream before prime lag. Rest cant stream, becouse when u are home back from work all u can stream is cyrodill PowerPoint presentation.
Zos never put pvp as a priority, cuz we dont bring enough money, but this is reaaon why they loose on twitch.
Fix pvp and make it watchable and there will be more streamers on twitch and more viewers.

MrDenimChicken

ESO doesn't have crazy endgame raids like WOW, and the PVP isn't super competitive. No MMR type pvp arenas, and cyrodil is too laggy to keep the attention of lots of gamers, only a select few.

Sypher used to have a lot of twitch viewers when he was PVPing on ESO.....but then he left and went to games like fortnight and his twitch viewers went through the roof. We got Fengrush now, who gets a ton of viewers, but he is the only real big time ESO twitch player.

SammyKhajit

This one is too busy playing to watch...

Edit: this one has limited time to play, hence even less/no time to watch streams. Reddit and this forum offers more info and entertainment anyway

wheresbes

For me, it's simply because ESO videos are quite fast-paced with all the spells and things going on which don't relate well with my aim of relaxing. To give you an idea, I truly enjoy watching Shirley Curry (not a streamer, she posts her videos on YT and plays mostly Skyrim) aww

Danikat

I'm another one who would rather play than watch someone else playing, so I don't watch streamers at all.

I'll very occasionally watch a video walkthrough for something if I'm totally stuck and can't figure it out from a text walkthrough but I can't remember that ever happening in ESO because the game doesn't really use puzzles or even 'puzzle bosses' where you have to attack at certain points in their rotation, and the quest markers make sure you can't ever be in any doubt about where to go. (Unless you turn them off, but then using a walkthrough will be counter-productive, if I've turned them off and there's no info to go on I'll just turn them back on briefly.)

I will sometimes watch pre-recorded gameplay videos when I'm considering buying a game. I've been doing a bit of that recently because I've been looking for puzzle focused or 'interactive story' type games and annoyingly a lot of them are aimed at non-gamers and are painfully simple (sometimes to the point of barely qualifying as a game - it's a cartoon with a few token points where you click on something, probably because it's easier to do that and stick it on Steam than to try to get distribution for an indie movie) so I want to watch videos first to make sure it's actually worth getting.

But even then I don't tend to want the kind of videos streamers try to make. I prefer ones with little/no talking over the top and if it starts with them spinning the camera around while they yammer on about what was in previous videos and the comments I'll turn it off immediately and find one that is actually showing what it claims to be about.

I don't know if I'm in any way representative of ESO players, although I'm certainly not the only one to say I prefer playing to watching, but I can't remember seeing anyone discussing streams or streamers in-game so my impression is it's not something that appeals to this community.

Minyassa

I wonder what the median age is for ESO players compared to other games. I know that there are a lot of older players here, and those of us who were already alive when video games were invented might have more of a tendency to think watching someone else play instead of playing ourselves is really frustrating and weird. That is how it hits me and several of my friends my age, it's just...watching someone else do something fun instead of doing the fun thing myself, when I could actually be doing the fun thing in that time. Kind of like watching someone else eat a sandwich when mine is in the fridge and all I have to do is go get it.

Jamerth

Or maybe the very rare and weak drops from BTS?

Abelon

Pevey wrote: »

Three things:

(1) Animation canceling
(2) Animation canceling
(3) Animation canceling

I’m not saying animation canceling is bad, just that it makes the combat super boring to watch. Even for people watching really, really closely (like when you’re watching a vid of someone else’s very good parse to learn from it), it’s really difficult to tell what’s going on in combat. It’s just a bunch of barely noticeable twitches and a huge cloud of special effects. Super boring to a spectator.

This is it.

There are essentially 3 things you can stream yourself doing in ESO. Number one is story. People don't like to watch streamers play the story as much. It can contain spoilers, it can easily get boring, it is in general more fun to play yourself. Number two is crafting, scrying, stealing, fishing and other similar non combat, non story activities. Those are too repetitive to be fun to watch over longer periods of time.

And number three is of course combat. That can be endgame pve like trials, vet dungeons or just dungeons, or it can be pvp. Difficult content will attract more viewers because it is normally more fun to watch. Unfortunately end game combat in ESO looks terrible. I am also not trying to bash animation cancelling or the general gameplay here, because it is fun (or at least it can be fun) to play yourself. But it does not look good, it is not fun to watch, it is hard to follow what is happening. There are too many jerky movements, tons of effects. AND what I particularly hate are the hud add-ons that most end game players use. Those add-ons make the screen more clean, they communicate information better, therefore making it easier to know what is going on for the player. But they look so, so bad... And they will be confusing to anyone who is new to the game or new to the add-ons.

Tandor

I think the question in the title is the wrong way round. What makes viewing Twitch less appealing to ESO players? In my view the answer is that it's the wrong audience for Twitch, not least in respect of age.