why there are a lot of dds instead of tanks?

Maintenance for the week of December 16:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 16
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
MalEducado
MalEducado
✭✭✭
some ppl say cause you cant share the archievements, but the question is focusing in terms of matchmaking and the how its hard to find tanks, but how it hards to find a competente tank ... the key is in this clip , in my opinion, this guy is a main tank, has a lot of guides, and he did all content in our lovely game...


enjoy yourself

https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyImpossibleAlmondKeyboardCat-p2v9NQf0-K2OrS2u
  • Grandchamp1989
    Grandchamp1989
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Why?

    Try and press the same taunt button every 12 seconds for 10 minutes straight because your PUG group can't kill the boss you're on. You're sitting there, bored to tears, and there's nothing you can do about it... Then it hits you.. After this boss there's another 4 bosses of this *** to come.
    Edited by Grandchamp1989 on March 16, 2021 4:11PM
  • DreadDaedroth
    DreadDaedroth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Because patch after patch it gets more frustrating, look at the new armour penalties for example.
  • MalEducado
    MalEducado
    ✭✭✭
    Why?

    Press the same taunt button every 12 seconds for 10 minutes straight because you're PUG group can't kill the boss you're on. You're sitting there, bored to tears, and there's nothing you can do about it... Then it hits you. After this boss there's another 4 bosses of this *** to come.

    im agree, but im with the guy of the the clip, fear of fail
  • MissAethe
    MissAethe
    ✭✭✭
    Honestly, what Grand above me said and then some other personal experience/opinions.

    When you run as a tank, you expect your DPS to burn enemies while you hold them, and you expect the healer to keep everyone alive. Yet what I've came across in every instance of groupfinder I've bothered with, is either the healer isn't actually a healer but is a third DPS, or, the DPS keep using their own taunts on the bosses, so I end up having to out-taunt my own teammates. That's super frustrating to deal with and extremely distracting.

    The second thing is I've noticed a lot of mixed "schools of thought" about what a tank should and shouldn't be. Some argue a tank has to be a team support only: their gear should provide group healing, group shielding, etc always and above anything else. Others say that you can provide that in your skills so gear doesn't matter nearly as much as what your techniques are. A third say a mix of both is ideal.

    What I've ran into and what is extremely frustrating to me personally, is the lack of wiggle room in this. I'm running a Warden ice-tank, my entire build is on debuffing the snot out of enemies and keeping them locked in on chilled status constantly (minor brittle at 100% upkeep for instance). Everything I do provides everything my team needs, I even have a healing Ult and skill slotted as well to heal when my healer isn't keeping up (or isn't a healer to begin with). The gear I'm running at the moment isn't optimized, it's trash combo junk I've picked up but gives me some nice buffs as well, but I stay at 52k HP at my current set up. That's a LOT of health for a non-geared tank, on top of all of the buffs I give and debuffs I apply in skills. It's not meta by any sense of the word, but it absolutely works and I've had no issues running (I've completely the majority of my dungeon runs with one DPS and that's it, to make a point).

    But the moment you start talking sets with people, I get hit immediately with "oh, you can't run that tank because you're not wearing -insert specific gear here-". I've been told, straight up, that my tanking was amazing at the end of a vet run only to be told that, "well actually you could've done a lot better if you were wearing..." when asked what gear I had on post-no-death run. It doesn't matter that we got through the dungeon without a hitch, it doesn't matter that we sailed smooth without issues, what suddenly matters is I'm not wearing whatever equipment a person is convinced I should be wearing because someone else told them that's all you can wear.

    Overall, I LOVE to tank in this game, but I get extremely frustrated when people start claiming sets override skill, and that I need to have certain gear to be mechanically sound (no, being mechanically sound is how you're mechanically sound). I grasp that running vet trials and serious end-game that you want to max out your support with key sets, I do, but constantly being put down for not having The Optimized Build when I'm tanking vet in trash, is super super annoying.
    Xbox NA 10am-2am EST/EDT - Find me In-Game @MissAethe
    Guildmaster - Nox Tyrannis - A Late Night 21+ PVE/Social Guild

    Dragonknight Spite Healer Extraordinaire
  • zvavi
    zvavi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my opinion it is a combination of those 3:
    1. In easier content it doesn't feel like you are very needed, and tanking is super boring.
    2. In harder content you are indeed under pressure (like mentioned in the video), including expectations from your teammates (including gear etc).
    3. In harder content you are too reliant on your dds. the weaker your dds are, the more tedious, long, and pressuring the fights become.
    Edited by zvavi on March 16, 2021 8:42AM
  • Grandchamp1989
    Grandchamp1989
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    MissAethe wrote: »
    Honestly, what Grand above me said and then some other personal experience/opinions.

    When you run as a tank, you expect your DPS to burn enemies while you hold them, and you expect the healer to keep everyone alive. Yet what I've came across in every instance of groupfinder I've bothered with, is either the healer isn't actually a healer but is a third DPS, or, the DPS keep using their own taunts on the bosses, so I end up having to out-taunt my own teammates. That's super frustrating to deal with and extremely distracting.

    The second thing is I've noticed a lot of mixed "schools of thought" about what a tank should and shouldn't be. Some argue a tank has to be a team support only: their gear should provide group healing, group shielding, etc always and above anything else. Others say that you can provide that in your skills so gear doesn't matter nearly as much as what your techniques are. A third say a mix of both is ideal.

    What I've ran into and what is extremely frustrating to me personally, is the lack of wiggle room in this. I'm running a Warden ice-tank, my entire build is on debuffing the snot out of enemies and keeping them locked in on chilled status constantly (minor brittle at 100% upkeep for instance). Everything I do provides everything my team needs, I even have a healing Ult and skill slotted as well to heal when my healer isn't keeping up (or isn't a healer to begin with). The gear I'm running at the moment isn't optimized, it's trash combo junk I've picked up but gives me some nice buffs as well, but I stay at 52k HP at my current set up. That's a LOT of health for a non-geared tank, on top of all of the buffs I give and debuffs I apply in skills. It's not meta by any sense of the word, but it absolutely works and I've had no issues running (I've completely the majority of my dungeon runs with one DPS and that's it, to make a point).

    But the moment you start talking sets with people, I get hit immediately with "oh, you can't run that tank because you're not wearing -insert specific gear here-". I've been told, straight up, that my tanking was amazing at the end of a vet run only to be told that, "well actually you could've done a lot better if you were wearing..." when asked what gear I had on post-no-death run. It doesn't matter that we got through the dungeon without a hitch, it doesn't matter that we sailed smooth without issues, what suddenly matters is I'm not wearing whatever equipment a person is convinced I should be wearing because someone else told them that's all you can wear.

    Overall, I LOVE to tank in this game, but I get extremely frustrated when people start claiming sets override skill, and that I need to have certain gear to be mechanically sound (no, being mechanically sound is how you're mechanically sound). I grasp that running vet trials and serious end-game that you want to max out your support with key sets, I do, but constantly being put down for not having The Optimized Build when I'm tanking vet in trash, is super super annoying.

    I completely agree.

    If you do your role as a tank (debuff, taunt, CC, chain - maybe group shield or alter - all skill based) then your DDs gotta be next level bad if the 200 weapon damage is the difference between a good clear and a messy one in -Insert dungeon or normal trial-

    Even vet trials like HRC and AA it shouldn't matter

    The only places I see an argument for the same 4 boring tank sets being mandatory is:

    -DLC vet trials
    -Trial HM
    -Arena score pushing

    If your DDs are asking their tank for a trial setup in Direfrost or White Gold Tower they're just plain baaaaaaaaaad or highly insecure.
    Edited by Grandchamp1989 on March 16, 2021 4:13PM
  • soulferin
    soulferin
    ✭✭✭
    I would go even farther - it's a waste of time for normal dungeon to take tank with You and most of the time healer also. ;)
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Well for most normals, you don't need one.

    For vet, being a pure tank and ending up with crappy dps is awful. Seriously, I've been like 50 minutes in wayrest 1 before.
  • Cirantille
    Cirantille
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I tried but couldn't get into it:

    1) I felt passive, more passive than healer

    2) If I were to do solo content I need to respec because it takes too long to kill stuff

    3) For PvP I need to respec again

    So it seems only useful in group content

  • EpicHero
    EpicHero
    ✭✭✭✭
    There should be a DPS test you need to perform before you can PUG veteran dungeons.

    People do less DPS then a tank, and queue up for vet dungeons... And then they take 2 hours for a dungeon that's supposed to be 15/20 minutes, wasting everyone's time.

  • EpicHero
    EpicHero
    ✭✭✭✭
    Oh, and that's not even mentioning the sheer unawareness that a lot of people play with.

    I was watching my wife heal a vet Selene final boss the other day, and one of the DPS died at least 5 times because he stood next to the tank and ate the bear attack = instant dead.

    And that is why noone wants to tank them.... the chance of getting one of those DPSs is way higher then the chance of getting a tank that can't handle the dungeon.
  • MalEducado
    MalEducado
    ✭✭✭
    zvavi wrote: »
    In my opinion it is a combination of those 3:
    1. In easier content it doesn't feel like you are very needed, and tanking is super boring.
    2. In harder content you are indeed under pressure (like mentioned in the video), including expectations from your teammates (including gear etc).
    3. In harder content you are too reliant on your dds. the weaker your dds are, the more tedious, long, and pressuring the fights become.

    agree totaly
  • kaisernick
    kaisernick
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel tanking suffers the most from the design of the game over others
    • Dps have dosens of way to deal decent damage.
    • Healing is prehaps my favorate in this game due to the fact it doesnt have the requirment of clocking a persons bar to heal allows me more time to actually look at the game over the ui.
      Tanking however feels like it does nothing right, the lack of a aoe taunt is baffeling as every other mmos has them and sure my tanks are great at soaking damage but they do almost no damage and thats isnt a ideal situation.

      My favorate tanking in a game is actuallt in the old republic my main is a jedi guardian tank and it just plays so well you deal decent damage (not a massive amount mind but much more than you can do in eso) and its fun the movement avaliable for it makes you feel like a badass and you can easily keep the attention of mobs and stay alive.
      Edited by kaisernick on March 16, 2021 9:48AM
    • Lintashi
      Lintashi
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      Current development direction, do not take into account support classes. Each year many new sets are released. How many of them are made especially for tanks and healers? Why there is no dummies for tanks and healers? Solo arenas cater to dps, allowing them to skip mechanics, if damage is good enough. Tanks and healers are again at disadvantage in arenas. Vampire rework also lacks anything useful for support classes. Developers just pretend, that anyone other than damage dealers, do not play the game.
    • ThePlayer
      ThePlayer
      ✭✭✭✭
      Every player have a tank main/alt, at least the veteran players, it's just that the game doesn't give enough incentives, special loots, for the tank to be played regularly (often even for the healers and DDs the same problem).
      The lack of players is felt especially in the vet dlc dungeons, and in these queues ZOS should give special loot, like gold materials and 15 keys.
      p.s. - Of course all players not ready for vet dlc would all be kicked instantly, but with special loot there would be a greater circulation of players.
    • notyuu
      notyuu
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭
      it's simple really

      as a tank you are kinda mostly dependant upon your team to be able to defeat enemies...problem is a vast majority of players in the game are....not exsactly what I would call up to the task of making this smooth, seamless and enjoyable experience
    • Danikat
      Danikat
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      On top of the issues already mentioned I think the game pushes players towards the DD role.

      The tutorial is all about how to attack in combat, even blocking is presented as creating an opening for a heavy attack.

      At first you're almost certainly going to be playing solo at least some of the time (unless you start with a friend and always play together) so you have to focus on doing damage because pure tanking or healing is useless without someone around to kill things. (Also tanking solo is pointless because there's no one else for them to attack anyway.)

      Add in the fact that doing damage probably seems simpler to a lot of players and it wouldn't surprise me if players only become tanks (or healers) if they make a deliberate choice to do so, while anyone who isn't sure ends up sticking to DD.

      (Tanking was definitely the role I learned last. It was actually the Dragon Quest series which taught me, I'd been playing RPGs of all kinds for years and never really understood why you'd want a skill which did nothing but make enemies attack you - surely they're already attacking you? But those games lean really heavily on the trinity model and the turn-based format helped lay it out for me - the healer can't take another hit so I can't risk the boss going for them - the tank uses a taunt skill to make sure they get hit instead, giving the healer time to recover. It was only after I first played Dragon Quest (I can't remember which one) that I realised other RPGs worked the same way.)
      PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

      "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
    • Uvi_AUT
      Uvi_AUT
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      My guess is that every Maintank-Streamer and Guidewriter makes it sound like its the hardest thing in the world to Tank a Dungeon.

      "You need to know every Boss"
      "You are the Leader"
      "You have to control the battlefield"
      etc.p.p.

      In reality its the easiest/most intuitive of Jobs. Even DD is harder (in this game).

      My advice to anyone who wants to Tank is: Just do, DONT watch Streamers or Youtube-Channels on Tanking!
      Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....
    • preevious
      preevious
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      A dps check could solve most tank's issue with tanking, I agree.

      I'm reluctant to have such a solution implemented, because it doesn't sound fair, but indeed, lack of DPS in vet content makes everyone's life miserable.

      For most vet dungeon, I'd say that being able to maintain 15k DPS (or a bit more for vDLC) over 1 mil HP would be quite sufficient for tanks not to feel saddled with an unsurmountable burden. After all, it's a team effort, with a tank, an heal, and 2 DPS .. none of those roles should be lacking.

      If you have less, do a premade where you'd be carried/teached how to perform your duties.

      Lots of people do less than that, and they have their rights too, I guess, but they can learn and seek advice.


      If course, veteran only .. in normal, anything goes.
    • Sarannah
      Sarannah
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭
      The reason why we see more DPS is because tanks are terrible for questing overland. And in groupcontent, we are often blamed when something goes wrong. I once got kicked from a group at a DPS check boss, that is how strange tanking sometimes is.

      Now personally I love tanking, as it is much more dynamic than just having a rotation. You have to see/feel the environment and group, and respond to that. As a pure tank I actually love it when the healer is just an off-healer, and more of a DPS. As a pure tank I can survive a lot, and the extra DPS makes dungeons faster. This makes almost all my runs smooth.

      Tanking by no means is boring, it is actually quite intense. If you are only standing still in fights, and find boss fights long, you are doing something wrong. So far I've only had about a handful of bad DPS groups. I also do not follow the tank meta or best sets, I use my own and build the tank around that. Same as I do with my DPS.

      With the buff to pure tanks this CP 2.0, it is even more fun. Although I can only do so many runs, as it is quite exhausting to always be aware. Then I just log in a DPS character and do some relaxing overland.
      Edited by Sarannah on March 16, 2021 10:23AM
    • Stanx
      Stanx
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      I made a tank. I wasn't good enough. Now he's a crafter.

      Think there's probably a lot more dd's because it's way easier and tanks actually require skill to play.

      EDIT: Tank also had good gear due to GMC on main and good tanking gear picked up from dd'ing dungeons / trials.
      Edited by Stanx on March 16, 2021 10:40AM
    • Brrrofski
      Brrrofski
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭
      notyuu wrote: »
      it's simple really

      as a tank you are kinda mostly dependant upon your team to be able to defeat enemies...problem is a vast majority of players in the game are....not exsactly what I would call up to the task of making this smooth, seamless and enjoyable experience

      This is a good point.

      As a DPS, all I need the tank to do really is hold aggro from the big mobs that hit hard. That's it. Anything else is a bonus. Even if a tank isn't experienced or fully understands the role, that's all they really need to do. Which is quite obvious.

      As a tank, if the random DPS are inexperienced it can be a huge issue. Not understanding how to do good dps is very common with vast majority of the community that don't read the forums or go to youtube. How to deal good damage is not obvious. Like seeing a dps with frost staff or sword and board is not uncommon lol.
    • SeaGtGruff
      SeaGtGruff
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      Well, there are basically 4 possible group roles in ESO-- tank, healer, stamina DD, and magicka DD. A 4-player group doesn't have to be made up of those 4 specific roles, but a random dungeon group is designed to have 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 DDs, so by that fact alone we might expect there to be twice as many DDs as tanks or healers.

      Obviously people are going to choose whatever type of character they want, without caring about the "fact" that the group finder sort of expects there to be about twice as many DDs as tanks or healers, and I suspect that a lot of players are more interested in being DDs because it's "sexier" (so to speak) to do high DPS-- more conducive to "bragging rights," as it were.

      In contrast, the forum is filled with posts from people lamenting that DDs don't show much respect to tanks and healers, so players who enjoy playing tanks or healers might think twice before queuing for a random dungeon with strangers. It's not much fun to play a tank or healer if 2 or 3 of the other players in your group are going to rag on you and maybe vote-kick you.
      I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
    • Eedat
      Eedat
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      I don't PUG on my tank because I can't bear getting stuck with two DDs outputting a combined 15k DPS for the hundredth time. I only tank with premades where I can rely on the DDs to not be potatos
    • MalEducado
      MalEducado
      ✭✭✭
      Uvi_AUT wrote: »
      My guess is that every Maintank-Streamer and Guidewriter makes it sound like its the hardest thing in the world to Tank a Dungeon.

      "You need to know every Boss"
      "You are the Leader"
      "You have to control the battlefield"
      etc.p.p.

      In reality its the easiest/most intuitive of Jobs. Even DD is harder (in this game).

      My advice to anyone who wants to Tank is: Just do, DONT watch Streamers or Youtube-Channels on Tanking!

      sure you are the pro player, add me and go with me to do vet dlc dgs no deaths... and we can see your amazing skills...

      tank is the hard role in teso, the dd and depends on class, and the easy role is healer... but i dont need to watch streammers to know that tank is the hardest role... i put his video, cuese he is famous... but the question is, why when i queue as a tank i find all content in 10 seconds and as a dds sometimes i need 1 hour...

      and pls stop blame ppl...
    • Starlight_Whisper
      Starlight_Whisper
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      Lintashi wrote: »
      Current development direction, do not take into account support classes. Each year many new sets are released. How many of them are made especially for tanks and healers? Why there is no dummies for tanks and healers? Solo arenas cater to dps, allowing them to skip mechanics, if damage is good enough. Tanks and healers are again at disadvantage in arenas. Vampire rework also lacks anything useful for support classes. Developers just pretend, that anyone other than damage dealers, do not play the game.

      Here here, support roles want love too
    • MalEducado
      MalEducado
      ✭✭✭
      Eedat wrote: »
      I don't PUG on my tank because I can't bear getting stuck with two DDs outputting a combined 15k DPS for the hundredth time. I only tank with premades where I can rely on the DDs to not be potatos

      thats another reason , specially in vet dlc content... true
    • Wing
      Wing
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      honestly its just a chore, and i enjoy tanking.

      but in the other two MMO's i have sunk alot of time into DDO (my first) and FF14 (more recent) tanking is a much more passive aspect of what the tank does.

      in both you what amounts to just massive passive threat on your attacks, tanks just naturally tank things. after that they still get to do all their own things and play the game, do damage, go through rotations, etc. and tanks in FF14 still do good damage, in fact they tend to be the first class that gets efficient spammable AoE attacks as they are needed to grab mobs.

      compare that to ESO where you have to manually run around playing whack a mole on mobs that all the other players are attacking, pulling, running away from, etc. and your expected to run sets that are less so about you having fun but more so making your group able to have more fun.

      ESO tanking is just weird in that it was designed to be a chore of a role rather then something that you want to do, its literally the worst tanking system i have ever used.
      ESO player since beta.
      previously full time subscriber, beta-2024, game got too disappointing.
      PC NA
      ( ^_^ )

      You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
      DK one trick
    • LashanW
      LashanW
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ---No longer active in ESO---
      Platform: PC-EU
      CP: 2500+
      Spoiler
      Trial Achievements
      Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Immortal Redeemer, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vMoL no death

      Arena Achievements
      vMA Flawless, vVH Spirit Slayer

      DLC Dungeon Trifectas
      Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, Icereach
    • Mojmir
      Mojmir
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      I gave up running dps almost 2 years ago. I find that boring. I run 10 tanks and they all use a variety of sets. My main tank runs burning spellweaver/plague doctor for dailies. I find it extremely fun and dont worry about low dps. For vet stuff i stick with my guilds.
    Sign In or Register to comment.