Do you want to turn PVP into a skill-less Call of Duty game for six months?

LarsS

Having played pvp since late beta, I note that pvp now works like it did when the game was new, with fast and desive battles. Personally I find it more interesting.

The present number of fully working set may seem small, but theory crafting is still very important both for solo and group play. A good understanding of CP, sets and skills is needed for a good build, I think it needs more skill than when the procsets were around.

The same is true for playing skills, rotation and organization is more important, since its much easier to die without porc and doe to the new CP system.

I dont know of anyone in my guild, who want to go back to the proc set time.

barney2525

wazzz56 wrote: »

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

I can't wait to see all the crimson carried nubs floundering to deal with not having their "skill" for six months.

They will just run tighter, larger zergs. Thats what they do on PC now. Also what the OP is saying is it takes skills to counter those things or counter them by using other sets. I think a lot of people don't realize just how much of the game's sets are not usable right now. Once you get setup there really is no point in the rest of the games content. I wasn't a big PVE person but it made it somewhat fun when it got gear I wanted to try out in cyrodiil. Not now, no point already got the gear I need.

I get it, the 19 is a very slim number compared to what falls on the other side..and we could have hours of discussion on what should or shouldn't be lumped in...and I feel you about the farming and trying things ( 18 toons , 9 of which are nbs, all dif races and builds, I really like theory crafting and did enjoy the build variety of the last few patches), but I also realize that procs in this Proctopalypse (there have been prior procopalypsi , but this is seemingly the worst) had gotten waay outta control and needed to be addressed. I am not saying that procs don't have a place, but I think everyone can agree that the current "just slap on some crimson and malacath and cheese it up" style in cyro has sullied the idea of "skill" in pvp. I am am all for a pvp situation that is closer to pre 1t and 1.6 days.....also, on a side note, you make some of the most entertaining vids out there, appreciate you for that

Proctopocalypse ?

Sounds like a medical procedure that went waaaay wrong

munster1404

We should just have a naked only server in Cyrodiil.

SshadowSscale

yeah sure because clicking one button and then having my procs do the rest for me is so much more skillfull that actually having to setup combos with my different abilities..... honestly if this community's definition of skill is procs it says a lot about this game

SshadowSscale

BlueRaven wrote: »

I said it in another similar thread and I will say it here.

PvP player complaints have just ruined heavy and light armor to the point that two of my guilds are questioning if they actually complete trials anymore.

So I am having a hard time feeling any compassion for complaints over cyrodiil.

The armor bonusses and penalties was not asked for by anyone but of course the pve side will blame pvp for them.... this is not a pvp vs pve thing and I wish you would stop making it into one for once in your life..... these bonusses and penalties hurt pvp just as much as pve... we did not ask for it zos just did it because they felt like it

Vermintide

Battlegrounds is still fine, and lightyears better for decent PVP than Cyro.

Cyrodiil is not a "skill-less COD game", it's a mind numbingly boring rollerskate around the tree/tower/rock Benny Hill zergathon. There are three deciding factors in winning: Having strength of numbers, and having players intelligent enough not to chase the tower humpers, and of course the most OP of all- a decent ping. The only reason to play it any more is AP farming.

This test shows us one thing, however. There are classes which are utterly unable to compete without leaning on them, and that is a bigger problem that needs to be fixed.

rumple9

Mission's Abolo

pavlaprovaz

Rastapasta wrote: »

The silent majority cheers at the decision of banning autoproc sets for six months. (hopefully permanently.)

To the complainers; learn how to play without, its more challenging .

Next good thing would be banning the players who breach the cast timer table.
They are the ones provoking the pvp servers to go beserk, since the system tries to pick up data they can't,
reason why your death data results never matches the health your toon has.
(to explain ; your toon has 35K health , you have been hit for 25 K but your death .... how comes.

cheers

Wow you must be telepathic to know that it's majority that cheers for the procset ban. And btw those that do cheer are not so silent shaming anyone who doesn't like taken 90% of sets off the table to place them in the box of l2p label or take the challenge. I have several chars on all of the classes and I don't like having most of them turned down because they can't compete with other classes on those particular 19 sets.

FrankonPC

FWIW I've been able to play in grayhost this last week with minimal lag. There's still some but that's something I haven't been able to do in prime time in 6 months.

Now it could just be a server reset and it will go back to normal in a week, but the case for "worse lag" is unfounded imo.

The lack of sets is not ideal, but it sure beats having 10 different sets proc off light attack dmg doing all the work for players stacked heavily into dmg mit and survival.

Combat is fast paced and the defense/offense is more reliant on the player than it has been in ages. Slowly add more sets but this is a huge improvement from Markarth.

LtClungeX

cod is an esport though so doesn't that require skill?

DreamsUnderStars

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

We wanted a lag-free Cyrodill, but instead, you're making it completely unplayable by disabling proc sets and increasing the lag.

You are limiting the armor sets to 19 only because some people don't have the skills or knowledge to use a wider variety of armor sets. You're turning this game into a skill-less Call of Duty game.

You're forcing players who spent a lot of hours into making a PVP build and golding out their armor sets to throw out their builds for six months and not play. Is that what you want? A skill-less MMO?

Hyperbole doesn't help our complaint.

LtClungeX

munster1404 wrote: »

We should just have a naked only server in Cyrodiil.

bit first we must5 find a way to remove the loin cloth

Andrezs

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

We wanted a lag-free Cyrodill, but instead, you're making it completely unplayable by disabling proc sets and increasing the lag.

You are limiting the armor sets to 19 only because some people don't have the skills or knowledge to use a wider variety of armor sets. You're turning this game into a skill-less Call of Duty game.

You're forcing players who spent a lot of hours into making a PVP build and golding out their armor sets to throw out their builds for six months and not play. Is that what you want? A skill-less MMO?

I disagree with you.

You have your class skills, your weapon skills, undaunted skills, fighters guild skills, mages guild skills, vampire skills, warewolf skills, potions, food, single set buffs from helms and probably more.

So when you say that PVP is skilless without the rest of the sets, I just look at you and wonder where you get that notion.
There is still IC, there is still BGs.

You say when the sets are removed it's skilless Call of Duty. However, you just said you had to gold gears and buy new DLC to gain an advantage over others while not even having to do anything more but just let the sets proc over and over to kill them.

So I have one question for you. Have you looked in the mirror?

OOOOF you just destroyed OP.
Saying that not having procs makes it less skill based is the most flawed opinion Ive ever seen. We are now all in the same ground, no sets that gives free damage, only your skills to help you win or lose. Get lost OP, and decon your proc sets while youre at it.

Seraphayel

Proc sets will be back in U30. So you’ll just have three months of no proc sets, y’all survive.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/565283/

KuroyukiESO

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

So you want to tell using proc sets requires more skill then trying to use your active skills on a stat based build? KEKW

How is it more skill-based when the game is only limited to 19 sets?

[Quoted post was removed]

Everyone can wear crimson. So why would you complain if you can wear the same sets that I can if you claim your gameplay is more skill-based?

Gameplay without procs is by definition more skill based since your healing and damage relys on your actually skills on your skill bar. If i dont press my healing skill, i wont get healing.

Proc sets do that for you. Taking damage? Crimson proc, BAM. Full HP. Not enough brain cells for a proper rotation to apply Pressure or line up a burst combo? Slot vate destro and zaan and just apply ele draim while light attacking. Freee damage.

I don't define skill as clicking things on a keyboard only. Having a wider variety of options to make better builds is included also. Knowing what combination of sets to use and what combination of skills to use on your skill bar for a PVP build.

This is totally irrelevant when you people just go on YouTube and look up meta cheese builds anyway. There is no skill in typing "Meta Magden PvP build eso 2021" into the youtube search bar. You don't know anything, you let other people do the thinking for you, and then claim you have skill because you copied an internet guide. That's not how it works.

The game SHOULD be balanced around skills. Sets should modify stats and stats alone. Proc sets that heal or deal damage for you need to be reduced to nothing but monster sets, and potentially arena weapons. 5 pc Damage / healing procs should be reworked to stat sets imo. Getting rid of all procs will be a great way to weed out the players that genuinely have no idea what they are doing, and if all goes well, encourage them to do better in the future.

Relying on procs to play the game for you is not skill. Using the abilities, terrain, and techniques available to every player at all times is. That is all.

Dunning_Kruger

LtClungeX wrote: »

cod is an esport though so doesn't that require skill?

Gotteem

volkeswagon

A skilless PVP vs an unfair and unbalanced pvp. I'll take the skillless one. That way it's a level playing field instead of the guys that come out of nowhere and kill you in two seconds.

volkeswagon

I'd be happy if they just completely separated it from the game. Creating a pvp environment within a pve game using pve gear and skills doesn't work.

regime211

Yall got duped by asking for performance and instead got your sets disabled lmao.

PunkAben

A lot of software company dont have this software issus like Zenimax.
It must be possible to hire some of this people or get help from another software company.
It is not rocket sience, software production is not new, it should't be harder for Zenimax then other company.
It is sad to see so many leave the game becouse this sucks so bad

StarOfElyon

Lamagrokie wrote: »

For everyone who can't play without proc sets



Disabling proc sets - perfect opportunity to measure your own skill;

Bam. These proc sets are like training wheels. Use them to get some experience but eventually, they have to come off.

HalvarIronfist

IMO,

Proc sets do not make a skilless player. Do they make them maybe under average? Sure, maybe.

Sure, I can go kill a bunch of people with proc sets. I can also go kill a bunch of people with stat sets.

Sure, the proc give X (Damage), Y (Healing) or Z (ETC EFFECT), but that doesn't matter if you execute your combo, your attacks, etc poorly and have little clue what you're doing.

For example; Crimson is a popular proc set to complain about. Crimson is only overpowered or useful combined with malacath and on top of people who're unable to dodge it. It's an easy proc to dodge, seriously. If you stand in a crimson proc and it hit you and you do it repeatedly, is the set overpowered or are you a worse player than the person you're fighting?

I preferentially play stamdk, and I never die to proc between CP or NOCP (Including BGS).

My Stage 4 Vampire stamblade doesn't die to procs.

My most played toons don't have a purge, and don't die to procs. Are procs annoying? Sure. Are they avoidable or able to be played around? Yes.

But; here's the thing. There should be BALANCE between proc sets and stat sets. And people are too obsessed over proc sets to really notice that stat sets/stat boosting proc sets are still just as viable.

Gear only takes you so far, being a potato otherwise is likely to increase your frustration with proc sets and death count to them.

Knowing how to play, how to mitigate, how to LOS, survive, and counter other players is far more important than just slotting some sets. (No, seriously. I can play a 3 proc stamblade in BGs, sure I'll destroy anyone I touch... but if they touch me I'll die assuming I don't find a way away from them.)

To summarize.

19 sets in the game are untouched. Over 380 are effected. ZOS stated performance wasn't any better, or if even worse. Sure, PVP is enjoyable. I don't have any difference in fun than I did before. I enjoy PVP for what it is. But some of these anti-proc arguments really, really just come off as salt or L2P issues. If a class without purges can survive, surely everyone can.

FrankonPC

Stat sets are not "just as viable" as procs. This has been proven ad nauseum for the last 8 months to not be the case. you can look at the mathematical point of view that shows you need well over 900 weapon dmg on a 5 pc set to match some procs dmg. You could look at one of my many videos showing me using one button in battlegrounds and getting kills by just spamming one ability.

You cannot do the same thing with stat based sets, which is why they're so imbalanced.

MurderMostFoul

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

I never die to proc between CP or NOCP (Including BGS).

Statements like this don't help you make a credible argument. No one here is claiming their deaths are exclusively the result of proc damage, but procs do disproportionately contribute to lethal damage. And procs are far too easy to apply. Something tells me you've probably seen proc damage in at least a few of your death recaps.

SimonBelmont

relentless_turnip wrote: »

SimonBelmont wrote: »

I don't understand the rational behind claiming that proc sets require no skill. Sure, there are a few that are able to proc so frequently that the player wearing them needn't bother to plan around what will proc the set (or when the set will proc on it's own). Talking about those with CDs between 3-4 sec. There may be a need for numbers to be adjusted there, no doubt..

But anything with a 6+ sec CD; and you actually do have to plan around that. It can be quite fiddly too! It's not like you're wearing a bot-backpack.

And if you think that proc sets win fights for you, with no real effort required on your part, I dare you to put that theory to the test! And I don't mean looking at your own death recap. Farm the sets and try em out. You may be surprised how NOT effortless they will make PvP for you.

Even in Crimson & Leeching, you can get gibbed much like anyone else..

Speaking of skill-free, how bout them combat pets, eh? Pretty much any combat pet in this game is going to have as much, if not more impact on PvP, than any proc set is. Like, pets that can CC? That's some bs...

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Just to clarify you are saying it takes equal skill to light attack every 6 seconds as it does to line up 4-6 skills?

When did I say anything about omitting a good rotation or literally relying solely on the set's proc for damage output?

relentless_turnip wrote: »

For instance this is a build made as a meme when unleashed was first announced in stonethorns patch notes: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=284300

It does 80-100k dot from one attack. In PvP this is a measly 40-50k though... Meanwhile this is a necro with nearly 30k resists, 40k health and 2.5k stam regen. To do the same damage with a stat build with 20k resists, 25k health and 3 damage sets. You would need to do 2 BBS and at least 3 dizzys this is 5 GCDs.

So, you're saying proc sets are fine, and Necromancers need to be nerfed? (see, I can put on blinders too)

Seems like a lot of bystander-opinions run along these line.. "I saw someone do X dps on a dummy! It's so OP!" or "This person is one-shotting people in a post-stream highlights reel they put up on youtube! Isn't that so OP!?" Yeah, cause they opted not to include all the times they got destroyed...

This "god-mode" stuff just doesn't happen in the real game. Not due to sets, anyway.. There are classes with damage shields that are way too good for pvp.. But that's a different topic all-together.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Tell me which requires more skill? Which do you think is more tricky to play?

I'm not going choose between the two options that you're trying to make this about. Not every player who wears one or more proc sets is by default failing to play well. Is bringing a knife to a gunfight "failing at gunfights"? I think a case could be made that it is.

This game is like...90% farming gear; like every other MMO. Seems to me some people think they can save themselves the trouble of having to farm it, if they can just cry until it's nerfed into obsolescence.

Orange_fire_dragon

Uh, did I read this right or did the OP just claim that 'procs are skill'?

So being carried by your proc sets that are free dmg is now considered skill but putting more effort into fights/duels is not?

Man, times changed.

kieso

In general fps games rely more on the players skill to aim and shoot than in an mmo which relies more on gear.

C0RTEX4

CipherNine wrote: »

letting proc sets play the game for you required skill. yeah sure.

Proc sets do not allow for skilled play, in my opinion they should remove CP from ALL pvp and ALL proc sets entirely, this will allow for 100% skill of your class and for more players to die faster, reducing lag because you would have to travel to the battles, also resulting in faster battles and players spreading out to create new ones, I mean the proof is in Non CP right now, the game runs much smoother than in CP Grey Host without these proc sets or CP, sure it's still lagy but at least playable.

Leave proc sets and CP for PVE and create the separation we have ALL been asking for in the last 6 years...

C0RTEX4

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

How is it more skill-based when the game is only limited to 19 sets?

Bro did you read what you just posted?

C0RTEX4

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

How is it more skill-based when the game is only limited to 19 sets?

So you measure someone's skill to the sets they equipped?

Yes, more sets mean more combinations of sets can be used and more variety of builds. Therefore people can invent more advanced builds.

By advanced, I take it you mean broken setups?