Map layouts in Vvardenfell are too complex, even for experienced players

Michae

Maybe it's just me, as I barely get lost anywhere even in real life, but the Vivec City isn't really that hard. It's literally two cantons with interiors only on first floor. 3 doors on two sides of each, the middle one gets you to plaza, the others get you to H shaped corridor layout. You get markers on which door to go into and everything. It's hardly a rocket science.

Sarannah

Never had any issues, even though ZOS should make a central board in town for activating all the dailies. Which they should do for all zones/DLC's.

WiseSky

Here is what my Vvanderfell Map looks like.



The Only area I explored are the Writs Area and One Daily Boss for the Event.

Currently I have addons that remove the Pins on Compass and Map.

I am seriously in the works of dreaming up an AddOn that lets us quest without the need for any Pins on map or Compass.

Where each Quest that is given has the good old RPG no hand holding just hints...

I mean if people are Making SkyWind And SkyOblivion for like a decade all volunteering I am sure we can get enough people who would like to recreate the TES3 experience questing part but in ESO.

TheImperfect

It's pretty easy if you use the quest map pins.

Xen0rm

I can't say I am experienced. But the layout in Vvardenfell is just normal to me. For me I always use the wayshrine near the palace, or what you call it. That way you get the daily just downstairs. And when you hand in daily, that wayshrine is also a good start.

Luke_Flamesword

Whole Vvardefell is a bit weird zone, because in TES III it was very big and complex landmass with many landmarks and in ESO they tried to compress it in much smaller scale, so effect is not very good (not bad either). I really love art style of new Vivec (I love mosaics!), but it's shame that we have such a small part of original city.

I think that mistake was from beggining trying to cover too much landmassess in zones, so now we have filled almost all interesting places in Tamriel. I really wanted to see much bigger cities with bigger zones, but this is for ESO 2 some day :P

myskyrim26

Athan1 wrote: »

It's very difficult to find a quest person in those buildings, you have to go in and out for ages, trying to find the right floor and entrance...

Cantons are just fine. Cantons are the lore. But a truly bad idea was to place quest NPCs there. They all should have been in Halls of Justice. Same for guilds: they shoud have been outside a canton, having small kiosks or tents.

Varana

It's really not that hard...

If you stand on the steps in front of the Temple, you see two cantons.
In the right canton, you turn in world boss quests in the Waistworks. Just take a look at what the door says - you might need to read three words or so, but I'm confident you'll manage that.
In the left canton, you turn in delve quests in the Plaza. If you cross the upper-tier bridge between the cantons, you have the Plaza entrances at both ends of the bridge.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

SeekerAssassin

I had problems when i first started doing the Vvardenfell daily's a few months ago. What helped me the most is not paying attention to the quest markers too much. Once you get the hang of it its not bad.

Lugaldu

I find the landscape structure of Vvardenfell and the cantons in Vivec particularly interesting. You always see things from a slightly different perspective because there are many different paths that can be taken. Take on the other hand Solitude and Western Skyrim, everything there is so simply structured that it get´s boring after seeing it twice.

rumple9

Zos, please move the daily quest givers to vivec city near the crafting area

The_Lex

Old school RPGs/MMORPGs:

No compass markers; no direct routes; unclear maps and directions that require quite a bit of thought and time; asking numerous NPCs for “clues” on how to solve a puzzle or get directions; zero hand—holding; aggroing and fighting mobs on the way to and from objectives; no cash shops for short cuts in character development, zone progression, cosmetics, or consumables; etc, etc.

Purpose: the fun was in trying figuring out the quest. You got a sense of accomplishment from solving the complexity. It was a forced immersion into the world. You “became” your character.

Modern RPGs/MMORPGs:

Compass and quest markers galore; clear and distinctive routes with minimal interference as long as you stay right on the main roads; maps and directions provide fairly clear and straightforward directions to objectives; no overly complicated puzzles, lots of hand-holding; cash shops which can provide short cuts in character development, cosmetics, zone progression, or consumables; etc, etc.

Purpose: the fun is clearing the zone and finishing all the quest objectives quickly and easily. You get a sense of accomplishment when all quest markers disappear and the journal is empty. World immersion is on you, not forced on you.

EDIT: I grew up on the old school RPG. But, I acknowledge that the modern method ensures more revenue to the developers. Not making a judgment call...just a statement.

Odovacar

Getting lost is all part of the MMO experience, initially. As far as true veteran getting lost idk about that especially a seasoned TES player. Although, I do admit Vvardenfell can be a little mazy, lol.

paulsimonps

Its really not complicated at all. And like others said, the original had much more stuff too it, and I loved it. Vivec is one of my all time favorite cities in TES. Looking at your map tends to help though.

JB_den

Clairvoyance was the spell in Skyrim that would draw a line on the ground to the objective. ESO should get something like that too, except not an active spell, this doesn't need to take a slot. Maybe granted to everyone with an on/off hotkey.

SeekerAssassin

JB_den wrote: »

Clairvoyance was the spell in Skyrim that would draw a line on the ground to the objective. ESO should get something like that too, except not an active spell, this doesn't need to take a slot. Maybe granted to everyone with an on/off hotkey.

We already have Quest markers that point you in circles/point to the wrong place. Having a line on the ground that takes you off of a cliff sounds like a great upgrade.

Sylvermynx

I guess it's just me because I've been playing CRPGs since 1985 (as well as pencil and paper tabletop games for the decade before CRPGs - you know.... where the only maps were the ones you drew on graph paper as you quested through the DM's story....) - I don't get lost, and after doing a quest a couple of times, I don't need map markers.

I still remember where all the good loot is in the SSI Gold Box games set in the Forgotten Realms, and how to kill a hundred orcs in the big temple on the island..... I played that first game (Pool of Radiance) when it released in 1988 and the others as they released thereafter.

The only place a little iffy for me in this game is the Endless Stair area in Coldharbour - and that's mostly because it's very dark. Next time I have to navigate that, I think I'll boost the gamma. Of course my new monitor may help with that too.

Stokowski

Ah, TES III

The days before a quest compass

That guard outside Suran who gave the wrong directions

AlnilamE

Athan1 wrote: »

Souterain wrote: »

And yet the craft area is one of, if not, the best layouts in the game.

If you have a banker, Alinor is miles better. Simple af layout.

Not if you need guild bank and guild store access. Vivec City forever!

Varana wrote: »

It's really not that hard...

If you stand on the steps in front of the Temple, you see two cantons.
In the right canton, you turn in world boss quests in the Waistworks. Just take a look at what the door says - you might need to read three words or so, but I'm confident you'll manage that.
In the left canton, you turn in delve quests in the Plaza. If you cross the upper-tier bridge between the cantons, you have the Plaza entrances at both ends of the bridge.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

This is the right answer. As long as you go into the Waistworks on the right Canton and the Plaza in the left Canton, you will have no difficulty finding the quest givers.

Starlock

Too complex? I wish the rest of the game was up to this quality standard in terms of complexity...

DreamsUnderStars

The Cantons would be less annoying if they made each one a whole instance instead of ever door a new loading screen.

iksde

Koronach

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

And here I thought this would be about the Public Dungeons .

Won't lie, I totally got lost in Nchuleftingth my first time. Probably shouldn't of did it intoxicated on my first time.

Vevvev

ESO is tame compared to Morrowind because you have waypoints. In Morrowind I spent a good hour learning how to navigate those multi story pyramids and I ran into the sewers way more than I'd have liked. Especially since there were ghosts and stuff down there!

Varana

Koronach wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

And here I thought this would be about the Public Dungeons .

Won't lie, I totally got lost in Nchuleftingth my first time. Probably shouldn't of did it intoxicated on my first time.

I would agree - Nchuleftingth can be confusing. As can some delves, esp. those with seemless transitions between several layers (Nchuleft or Pulk, for instance) - not at all helped by ESO's somewhat inadequate mapping.

But Vivec City - once you found your way up a ramp, it's really not that complex...

Iluvrien

The only things I am unhappy about with regards to the cantons of Vivec are that there are only two of the original nine, and that there are so many chained doors.

The structure and decoration of them brings me much joy.

I wonder if this is a question of contrast between the pre and post-quest marker generations.

Gilvoth

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

yes, there was a lower "waste works" level that led all the way to red mountain, and several other places.

Wait, what? Are you sure you aren't misremembering something? I've played Morrowind many times, and don't recall any way to go from a lower waste works to Red Mountain. I'm wondering if you're confusing some of the Daedric shrines, Sixth House followers, or a certain corprus-infected skooma addict with Red Mountain?

To get back to the OP, you can tell from where the quest marker appears on the map whether the quest giver is on the second level or in the uppermost plaza section. The plaza has two entrances, one on the east side and one on the west side, and they are in the middle rather than near the corners. The second floor has six entrances, one on the south side and one on the north side which are in the middle, and two on the east side and two on the west side which are near the corners.

Also, there aren't that many different quests, and after doing each one several times you may get to where you can remember the quest giver's location.

just look for the daedric shrine behind one of the doors. it will have a part of the wall collapsed that opens to a very long path directly to red mountain.
also:
there is also one room that leads to the leader of the thieves guild.
there is also one room that leads to the morag tong guild hall.
there is also one room that leads to the much much much more many hidden things people never took the time to explore.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

This is very funny. If you have played Morrowind doubly so. Its easy to get around in this game, well Malabal Tor can be tricky.

Vivec in ESO is seriously simplified, and twisted too, just to make it easy for you. In Morrowind its a much more complicated set up, and way more fun. Now I will admit my chars can levitate almost immediately, as Alteration is essential in TES 3.

cyclonus11

Athan1 wrote: »

Souterain wrote: »

And yet the craft area is one of, if not, the best layouts in the game.

If you have a banker, Alinor is miles better. Simple af layout.

No, it really isn't. Not even close.

Sturmfaenger

I like the cantons as they are, and I like they took the layout from TESIII Morrowind.