Map layouts in Vvardenfell are too complex, even for experienced players

Athan1

The Tribunal event reminds me why I hate Vivec City: Cantons. Idk who thought it was a good idea to create those mazes, but imho they're poorly designed, they are unnecessarily complex. It's very difficult to find a quest person in those buildings, you have to go in and out for ages, trying to find the right floor and entrance... This is especially confusing for new players, and Vivec is supposed to be a starter zone. How exactly are new players supposed to discover the Mages and Fighters Guilds in that labyrinth? And don't get me started on the Public Dungeons and Delves in this zone. The maps are completely non-sensical. My friend just joined the game and couldn't get around these delves on his own. Even experienced players can struggle. So in the end he went back to start the main quest in the vanilla zones, which are actually noob-friendly.

tldr; Whoever designed Vvardenfell zones did not take it into account that ESO maps only display one floor, not the entire structure, thus many areas are too complicated and confusing to quest in.

Araneae6537

You never played TES III, did you? Besides additional pyramids, I believe there was an additional lower level too. I sympathize that it can be difficult to find what you’re looking for, but I’m glad they kept so much of the look and feel of Vvardenfell!

UntilValhalla13

That was one of the main reasons I didn't like the original Morrowind to begin with. That, and many other things...

Athan1

Araneae6537 wrote: »

You never played TES III, did you? Besides additional pyramids, I believe there was an additional lower level too. I sympathize that it can be difficult to find what you’re looking for, but I’m glad they kept so much of the look and feel of Vvardenfell!

No, I haven't... And the presence of even more complicated cantons makes it highly unlikely I will

Danikat

Araneae6537 wrote: »

You never played TES III, did you? Besides additional pyramids, I believe there was an additional lower level too. I sympathize that it can be difficult to find what you’re looking for, but I’m glad they kept so much of the look and feel of Vvardenfell!

Literally the only thing the ESO version has going for it is I know it could be worse!

Jusey1

They're very simple and easy to explore.. I don't think I have ever gotten lost in Vivec.

Brrrofski

The whole zone is annoying.

But yeh, first time handing n my dailies for this event took me a while to work it out.

Flamebait

I'll be honest, the place can be a bit awkward. It's not bad on it's own it is more the locations of the daily quest givers and hand in locations that is the problem though. If they moved them to be more like they are in summerset it would be a wonderful thing.

One of the real issues I noticed also in the zone is the number of actual invisible walls, you can normally go pretty much anywhere in most zones, but in Vvardenfell there are places where you can go up a hill and then it just pushes you back since the way they intend you to enter that area is off to a side somewhere. Never been a fan of invisible walls in games though that might just be a me thing.

Gilvoth

it is perfect as it is.
it is exactly like it is in morrowind single player game, which is why it needs to stay as is.
no reason to destroy what extreme little that is carried over from morrowind SP to here in eso.

Greasytengu

I have a major problem with like 90% of Vvardenfell. Even outside Vivec, it seems like the entire zone is just impassable cliffs, dead ends, and maze like roads. The enemy density ensures that you aggro something as soon as you step off the pathways (which would be lore-friendly if it were cliff racers) The whole zone just feels squished, areas I remember being open and vast in TESIII are either narrow or clogged with random giant rocks. Its a shame, because I really want to love the zone, but I can't. I think I like Shadowfen more.

I remember when the Morrowind expansion chapter was announced, I though "Oh boy I cant wait to explore the new zones" But then I got into the beta and realized they had just crammed it all into one zone, and that was what we were going to get for the price of a full game. No red mountain, no Sheogorad islands, the vast ashlands were made into the giant rock lands, the entire space where Ald'ruhn is supposed to be was smaller than my in game house. Just massive amounts of disappointment.

All in all, Morrowind is my least favorite Chapter, and that includes Greymoor.

At least warden is cool I guess.

Gilvoth

Araneae6537 wrote: »

You never played TES III, did you? Besides additional pyramids, I believe there was an additional lower level too. I sympathize that it can be difficult to find what you’re looking for, but I’m glad they kept so much of the look and feel of Vvardenfell!

yes, there was a lower "waste works" level that led all the way to red mountain, and several other places.
i pray they change nothing.
there is very little carried over from morrowind to here in eso.

Jeirno

You select the quest you want to return in your Journal, the door that leads to the quest person has a marker on it, go inside and look at your compass/look through walls for the questmarker, not that hard to find them.

Nestor

Athan1 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

You never played TES III, did you? Besides additional pyramids, I believe there was an additional lower level too. I sympathize that it can be difficult to find what you’re looking for, but I’m glad they kept so much of the look and feel of Vvardenfell!

No, I haven't... And the presence of even more complicated cantons makes it highly unlikely I will

So we wont mention the lack of quest markers or compass telling you where everything is either.

Best part of Morrowind was setting off for a quest and after exploring the 20th delve you come across along the way, finally getting to where you wanted.

amm7sb14_ESO

Morrowind is quite possibly my favorite game of all time (either that, or Skyrim). It literally changed my perspective on gaming and the standards that I hold all other games to.

"Needlessly complicated" is also a phrase that accurately describes Morrowind.

Both things can be equally true.

deleted221106-002999

In ES3:morrowind: I generally jumped into water to swim to shore to get out of the maze.

In eso I port to friend/guildie to get out of vivec; I only go in with a quest marker and even then reluctantly. And yet the craft area is one of, if not, the best layouts in the game.

Athan1

Souterain wrote: »

And yet the craft area is one of, if not, the best layouts in the game.

If you have a banker, Alinor is miles better. Simple af layout.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

It's just three cantons which uses the same type of layout. I've never gotten lost there, because it's not that complex. It's not TES3's Vivec City.

Besides, if it's for a quest you just have that quest chosen and the quest marker will lead you to the right door. If you're looking for a vendor the map and signs helps.

Sylvermynx

I'm lucky - I have the sort of brain that eats maps and quest tracking. Serious....

First CRPG I played back in the mid 80s was Stonegate (jeez I can't even find a listing for it). But after that, I found the SSI Gold Box games - and to this day (playing them on DOSBox) I know how to beat the first major temple fight (LOTS of orcs - not only melee but spell casters) AND where all the good loot is.

Serious. I never forget anything in a game I've played (unless it just wasn't much fun *shrug*). Which might include MMOs - but WoW and RIFT are decades in the past now, and ESO....

Well.... ESO is different. Because even though I love it.... and I actually remember where some fun stuff can be found.... that's not why I play the game....

I play the game BECAUSE it provides a window on an era in the game world that we haven't seen before. Yes - there are limitations. But overall....I really enjoy this particular vision on an era we haven't seen before in TES.

SeaGtGruff

Gilvoth wrote: »

yes, there was a lower "waste works" level that led all the way to red mountain, and several other places.

Wait, what? Are you sure you aren't misremembering something? I've played Morrowind many times, and don't recall any way to go from a lower waste works to Red Mountain. I'm wondering if you're confusing some of the Daedric shrines, Sixth House followers, or a certain corprus-infected skooma addict with Red Mountain?

To get back to the OP, you can tell from where the quest marker appears on the map whether the quest giver is on the second level or in the uppermost plaza section. The plaza has two entrances, one on the east side and one on the west side, and they are in the middle rather than near the corners. The second floor has six entrances, one on the south side and one on the north side which are in the middle, and two on the east side and two on the west side which are near the corners.

Also, there aren't that many different quests, and after doing each one several times you may get to where you can remember the quest giver's location.

McGordon

At least Vvardenfell has best crafting area with bank and horse station there

spartaxoxo

Yeah I'm not a fan of the Canton layout either. It takes too long to get where you want to go, needlessly convoluted. I've got the hang of it and still feel that way. I prefer simpler layouts for repeatable tasks, don't mind grandeur and complicated stuff in the story areas though.

FlopsyPrince

The placement of Wayshrines in VVardenfel is lousy. Those in Clockwork City are a bit better, but still miss one key spot on the lower right.

katanagirl1

No one would design buildings like that in real life.

All the entrances on the ground floor are chained shut, so you have to go to the second floor to get in, and then go back downstairs.

Both buildings.

ccfeeling

Agree .
Dev , please take a look , thank you !

Scardan

Nestor wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

You never played TES III, did you? Besides additional pyramids, I believe there was an additional lower level too. I sympathize that it can be difficult to find what you’re looking for, but I’m glad they kept so much of the look and feel of Vvardenfell!

No, I haven't... And the presence of even more complicated cantons makes it highly unlikely I will

So we wont mention the lack of quest markers or compass telling you where everything is either.

Best part of Morrowind was setting off for a quest and after exploring the 20th delve you come across along the way, finally getting to where you wanted.

It was one of reasons why I loved Gothic. They gave good explanations, no lazy questmarkers.

Scardan

katanagirl1 wrote: »

No one would design buildings like that in real life.

All the entrances on the ground floor are chained shut, so you have to go to the second floor to get in, and then go back downstairs.

Both buildings.

Dunmers would design buildings like that in real life.

RedMuse

Araneae6537 wrote: »

You never played TES III, did you? Besides additional pyramids, I believe there was an additional lower level too. I sympathize that it can be difficult to find what you’re looking for, but I’m glad they kept so much of the look and feel of Vvardenfell!

Lol, I always got lost there. Still do in the more simplified version. And man finding that shrine in the center of the temple pyramid? Worst. Quest. Ever

Honestly ESO Vivec is so much easier and not just because 2/3 of the city is missing but because clicking J, then M, thwn zooming out once will show you exactly which of the bleeding pyramids and which damned floor you ned to go to.

DarcyMardin

I loved the original Morrowind, but I hated the cantons — I used to get lost all the time. I hate them here, too, and avoid them as much as I can. Although I usually do my crafting writs in Vivec City, I’ll jump to Rawl’ka if I need to talk to the cook or the brewer or the Mages or Fighter’s Guild, since I can never find them in the cantons.

colossalvoids

It's maybe a problem for newer players but I can't see any issues for any experienced ones tbh. Compared to morrowind it's a joke of a maze.

vesselwiththepestle

And here I thought this would be about the Public Dungeons .

SeaGtGruff

As long as you're doing two Hall of Justice quests, the delve and the world boss, the easiest way to turn them both in without getting lost is to port to the Saint Delyn Penthouse (assuming you have it) and go to the Saint Delyn plaza first, because one of the quest givers is always in there.

Then leave the plaza by the east exit and go across the bridge to the Saint Olms canton and go in the door that has the quest marker. Occasionally the quest giver is actually on the other side, but it doesn't really matter because it's easy to run through the middle to the other side. And if the quest giver is down on the lower level, just jump over the rail.

As for the locked doors on the outside of the lower level, that's because those lead to individual dwellings, but they aren't in ESO like they are in Morrowind.