Tired of CP leveling

Waffennacht

Who joins a 6 year old + game and thinks, "Hrm I bet ill hit max in quick order" ?

AlnilamE

Elo106 wrote: »

I had the same with some friends who I wanted to get in the game I showed them cyrodiil and they were hooked, started leveling to 50 was all fun and good but as they saw the CP thing I tried to say its not as bad just CP 160 but they all instantly called it they would have to grind way more to stay competitive. After getting what new players see as "max level" grinding that much more is demoralizing, especially for pvp players.

No CP PvP says hi!

Bonus that us PvErs don't have to swap CP every time we want to hop into Cyro. Just swap gear and skill bars and your good to go!

wastelandexplorer1

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Well 10 years is not true.. You basically shot any hope of your friend playing in the foot.

no he shot his friends hope in the knee cant beilve u missed the golden goose there

stefj68

I know they said 1200cp, but right now curved is set for 1020cp ...
wow!

Xebov

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Competitive ? You mean like people pushing for top scores in vet trials and top pvpers ? Thats like <1% of playerbase.

You can do almost everything in the game with cp 300+ just fine.

Currently yes. In the new system? No.

Current reality is that you can be CP500, having ~40% of the XP needed to max and having ~75% efficiency (or maybe even a bit more) vs a max level player.
In the new system the stars change from diminishing returns to linear, which means 50% nets you 50%. You easily take 1300+CP to reach a decent efficiency. A CP500 player just needs slightly less XP in the new system, but is only at 1/9th of the XP needed for CP1300 and he also only has 1/9th of the bonuses. This makes the new system worse for him because he takes way longer to even get close.

Meiox

Waffennacht wrote: »

Who joins a 6 year old + game and thinks, "Hrm I bet ill hit max in quick order" ?

Anyone who played another mmo?
I know no other mmo from the last 10 years, where you have to grind so long to reach max level.

Level: L50 and 3600 CP I don't know, but I guess aroung 2 years if you don't play several hours each day
Mounts: 180 days
Crafting: getting all traits probably more than a year

Artemis_X_

Meiox wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Who joins a 6 year old + game and thinks, "Hrm I bet ill hit max in quick order" ?

Anyone who played another mmo?
I know no other mmo from the last 10 years, where you have to grind so long to reach max level.

Level: L50 and 3600 CP I don't know, but I guess aroung 2 years if you don't play several hours each day
Mounts: 180 days
Crafting: getting all traits probably more than a year

Swg pre cu jedi grind took a while. You could loose exp dying there too. (not sure that was within 10 years.... Man I feel old)

Hesperax79

Based on Alcast here is the required XP / CP

EXP needed per CP in the new system:
160CP - 99k EXP
500CP - 237k EXP
810CP - 363k EXP
1200CP - 782k EXP
1600CP - 1025k EXP
2000CP - 1268k EXP
3000CP - 1878k EXP
3599CP - 2242k EXP

It takes years to grind.

Meiox

Artemis_X_ wrote: »

Swg pre cu jedi grind took a while. You could loose exp dying there too. (not sure that was within 10 years.... Man I feel old)

SWG was shut down in 2011, NGE was around 2006 afaik^^

mikemacon

Imagine playing an MMO and yet hating the grind.

ADarklore

Everstorm wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

This is fine if you are playing casualy but endgame pve and pvp its not. People who grinded more will have an advantage so to stay competitive you are "forced" to grind.

That playstyle is a choice. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I was a hardcore raider in Everquest and in the top five warriors with most earned AA points (similar to CP). I don't enjoy that anymore, not even in a guild in ESO.

Good for you but cant you see how a lot of those competitive players wont even start playing eso? New players are important to keep a game alive, only new casual players would mean endgame dies out, which is bad for the game.

The "if you dont enjoy it, dont do it" argument is bad because it translates to "dont enjoy the game, dont play" instead of just improving the game

Competitive endgame players are also a small minority, especially in ESO which has way more content for solo questing. ZOS will be more interested in attracting and keeping those players. See the addition of companions.

It's nice to see that someone else understands what ESO is all about! It's not about keeping veterans, it's not about PVP, it's not about 'group content'... it's about solo questers! ESO 'end game' is QUESTING, Life Skills, and RP... it has nothing to do with competition. Competitive end game is a super minority who is, and always will be, vocal about how they're constantly being mistreated by ESO... while not willing to accept that ZOS is not going to ever cater to them because they typically don't spend $$ like new, casual, or quest-focused players do.

Sandman929

Tired of progression in an MMO? Alright then. I'm tired of people who want to start a game and immediately get to the end.

ThorianB

Xebov wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Competitive ? You mean like people pushing for top scores in vet trials and top pvpers ? Thats like <1% of playerbase.

You can do almost everything in the game with cp 300+ just fine.

Currently yes. In the new system? No.

Current reality is that you can be CP500, having ~40% of the XP needed to max and having ~75% efficiency (or maybe even a bit more) vs a max level player.
In the new system the stars change from diminishing returns to linear, which means 50% nets you 50%. You easily take 1300+CP to reach a decent efficiency. A CP500 player just needs slightly less XP in the new system, but is only at 1/9th of the XP needed for CP1300 and he also only has 1/9th of the bonuses. This makes the new system worse for him because he takes way longer to even get close.

An internal team already did content with the changes with no CP( the resource bonuses are now given before you get CP instead of as you get get CP), so the entire CP tree is about efficiency and competitiveness.

mobicera

To all the people saying its just progression, its really more like a year of grinding zombies to even attempt to stay competitive.
This is insanity, expecting hardcore gamers to grind 6 months to a year to level cap even if they have already been playing 6 years.
What does that do to the casual gamer?
Guess what join eso its basically just continual leveling the servers will shut down before you ever get a chance to hit level cap.
I mean is this really what people want here?
A never ending xp grind called "progression"

FinrodMacBeorn

mikemacon wrote: »

Imagine playing an MMO and yet hating the grind.

There's grind by playing the game (doing Arx Corinium the umptieth time for the Medusa inferno e.g.) and GRIND by mind- and skilllessly killing mobs (Skyreach e.g.) for hours and hours and ... Nothing against the latter, if somebody wants to level a char the quick way - everyone to his tastes.

However, I find GRIND despicable if it is required for reaching the current max efficiency for your role in a reasonable amount of time (for pve mag DD this is roughly 1800 cp in 6.3.2). This is not typical for western mmos, and I would hate if ESO becomes more like an asian grinder mmo (where at least there are considerable shortcuts if you are willing to pay).

ThorianB

mobicera wrote: »

To all the people saying its just progression, its really more like a year of grinding zombies to even attempt to stay competitive.
This is insanity, expecting hardcore gamers to grind 6 months to a year to level cap even if they have already been playing 6 years.
What does that do to the casual gamer?
Guess what join eso its basically just continual leveling the servers will shut down before you ever get a chance to hit level cap.
I mean is this really what people want here?
A never ending xp grind called "progression"

Most people don't grind XP to try to hurry up and get to the end of the game. Only a small percentage of players do that. Most players don't care about being competitive either. It's not a competition, it is a relaxing hobby/form of entertainment to them. Being competitive in ESO to many players is like competitive tv watching.

The majority of players care about having content to do and being able to access and complete the content they paid for. That is all. They don't care about getting to max level, meta, leaderboards, achieves, or competing with others. They just want to play the game.

So all the doom and gloom that competitive players keep trying to push about the new system is falling on deaf ears. Casual players question: "Can i do the content?" Devs: " You can do everything under CP 2.0 that you could do under CP 1.0" Casual players: " Good enough for me"

Rungar

I was hoping they would combine CP with achievement points but I guess they had other ideas.

QuebraRegra

leveling in some MMOs, and other RPGs has been used by devs to replace actual content of value. Must keep the players grinding, so they will continue paying.

AlnilamE

mobicera wrote: »

To all the people saying its just progression, its really more like a year of grinding zombies to even attempt to stay competitive.
This is insanity, expecting hardcore gamers to grind 6 months to a year to level cap even if they have already been playing 6 years.
What does that do to the casual gamer?
Guess what join eso its basically just continual leveling the servers will shut down before you ever get a chance to hit level cap.
I mean is this really what people want here?
A never ending xp grind called "progression"

If you're a hard-core player and you have been playing for 6 years, how do you not have 2000 CP? I'm casual and I have 1400.

Fawn4287

I can’t convince a soul to play this game to get to 810 CP, imagine telling someone its now over 3000 lol. Destroying the hopes of any new players ever sticking around long term to appease a small bunch of people close to the cp cap who play all day regardless of the changes. The claim of “you only need x amount of CP” is irrelevant when you are getting slayed out by someone on 2.8k CP you are always going to feel its a significant impact whilst you sit there on 500.

Starlock

QuebraRegra wrote: »

leveling in some MMOs, and other RPGs has been used by devs to replace actual content of value. Must keep the players grinding, so they will continue paying.

Paying. You meant that last word to be paying? Yes. Yes indeed.

MMOs are one of the genres identified by researchers as causing the most problems with video game addiction. This is more than likely by design, not by accident. If you addict customers to a game, you keep them playing. If you keep them playing, you keep them paying.

This title hasn't exactly shied away from that but has been somewhat more customer-friendly by avoiding massive XP/progression grinds. That balance may be changing, which carries with it additional risks for people prone to gaming addiction or currently struggling with it. If this goes through, most of y'all will be fine but be careful; try not to let this trap you and if it does, seek support from those you trust.

Athan1

Just relax and enjoy the game. One of the reasons of CP is to give players a long-term goal. CP are meant to be earned over the course of your ESO playthrough, not overnight...

J18696

I think for those people who will just grind hard all day with every xp buff up probs take them a few months to hit cap after the patch goes live

UnknownResults

Where I don't disagree with the new cp system, and I love a challenge within reason, I do think cp 3600 seems a bit ambitious, (hehe flames of ambition) and I think that the new cp system will be very daunting to someone who just freshly gets to it, especially if they still start at cp 10. Due to the pts removing the copies of my cp level characters, I haven't yet gotten the chance to see how easy or not it is to get more cp. So I may be speaking out of my butt saying this, I feel the limit should really be decreased to something like 1000 (maybe even 2000), and the system altered to accommodate that.

If not then I think people should start at a higher cp, because it's not the case in everything but generally you need at least 10 cp into something before it becomes usable. So it sounds like every 30 cp you'll be able to get something slightly more useful, which I agree I don't want to be spoon fed power, I do still want to feel and see that progression of power even when playing casually (questing etc) because no matter what, it's each individual's choice how fast they play the game and level up.

Also I do think gear should be looked at again, because it sounds like the cp gear below 150 will be used even less if people blaze through those levels more than they do now, because everyone can use gear below level 50 more than once, but they only need cp 30 gear once and so on so forth, and if you end up starting people at a higher cp level then gear needs a looking at even more because you'd be invaliding the existence of certain levelled gear.

Just my 2 cents from my limited experience playing the game so far

Starlock

Athan1 wrote: »

Just relax and enjoy the game. One of the reasons of CP is to give players a long-term goal. CP are meant to be earned over the course of your ESO playthrough, not overnight...

On the one hand, I agree - part of the appeal of GaaS games is the ability to set long-term gameplay goals, for better or for worse. There are many ways a GaaS game can do this and they'll impact different player demographics in different ways.

On the other hand, when long-term gameplay goals appear insurmountable, they cease to become compelling for many players. In some cases, they simply become frustrating and contribute to players abandoning the GaaS.

Generally, ESO avoids being so inaccessible as to be frustrating and my general impression is that most players will not reach that frustration threshold with the new CP system. As the CP system expands and is added to, rebalancing should be considered to avoid pushing that frustration threshold. It needs to remain accessible to be a compelling gameplay system as well as feel impactful. The general concept they've got going is a good one so far. The rate of earning CP probably does need to be looked at in part because the new system doesn't just let you invest whenever and wherever. It reminds me of the disastrous grains system in jewelry crafting: here, have a fraction of a plating, now go get nine more to be able to do anything with it, and then another twenty grains because you need 3 platings to make a purple! Not a fan.

Meiox

Sandman929 wrote: »

Tired of progression in an MMO? Alright then. I'm tired of people who want to start a game and immediately get to the end.

You say there are only 2 possible ways of progression, "immediately at endgame" and "grind for several years to reach endgame"?
/s

mobicera

AlnilamE wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

To all the people saying its just progression, its really more like a year of grinding zombies to even attempt to stay competitive.
This is insanity, expecting hardcore gamers to grind 6 months to a year to level cap even if they have already been playing 6 years.
What does that do to the casual gamer?
Guess what join eso its basically just continual leveling the servers will shut down before you ever get a chance to hit level cap.
I mean is this really what people want here?
A never ending xp grind called "progression"

If you're a hard-core player and you have been playing for 6 years, how do you not have 2000 CP? I'm casual and I have 1400.

Because I don't grind xp
Trials and dungeons don't give xp.
Personally I am 1750 been playing since release.
How hard is it to understand people don't want to regrind xp just to bluescreen in the same content.

Mayrael

TBH... How many of you tested this on PTS? I have like 1400 CPs and TBH I need just a few more to have most optimised build I need because most of the stars are slotables which means you still have to choose what you want to use. I don't like being forced to grind all the way to 3600 but it's not required anyway.

mobicera

Stop saying its not required, to some people it really will be.
Those will create the need in pvp and pve.
It's not hard to comprehend.
This change alienates a good deal of long term players.
As well as anyone who doesn't get enjoyment from activities that reward high xp.

Asardes

I started a character on PC NA on 26th March 2020, just at the start of Jester's festival, and I played casually, a bit every day, ever since. In about a week he was level 50 CP 160, by early November he reached CP810, he's CP900 now.

I completed all overland content, all dungeons on veteran with about a half of DLC ones on hard mode, vAA and vHRC and the other trials on normal, vMA and vVH - those I run once when they're weekly to get on the leaderboard and slowly farm the weapons.

I play a couple of random BGs every day to burn off the illumination, do the writs, maybe do some event related quests, on average 30-60 minutes or so a day. Still I managed to get all PvP kill related achievements, most of the BG achievements and AR 25 (Colonel).

I have 3 full sets of gold gear - tank / DD / PvP and I'm sitting on about 21m gold and 8m worth of materials, with around 1m in motifs, gold jewelry etc. I don't worry about reaching 3600 CP, since it's almost irrelevant.

You can do all content listed above with 5-600 CP tops now, and even more so after the rework since the base stats are increased and the CP has a relatively lower power than now. Even now there are plenty of CP 810+ players who don't know anything and struggle to kill even overland trash mobs.

So IMO the game is not hard and you shouldn't aim for max CP or perfect gear overnight, but to play better.